The Rejected Times

by **Tano** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:51 pm

Hey look everyone, there's a really shiny topic over there. Let's go over and check it out

by **Milograd** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:14 pm

Solorni wrote:
Milograd wrote:DYP, Harm, Kazmr, and I have kept our main nations and our WA nations in Lazarus. Seeing as you previously refuted the parallel situation with Cerebella as being different because his WA is in the region, you must concede that you are applying a double standard.

Anyone can keep their main nation in a region, that argument has only been used by you as some sort of paper shield.

...

A Page Earlier - Solorni wrote:
Cerebella, former King of Balder, was recently crowned Kaiser of The New Inquisition, all while being the King of Albion and a commanding presence in the United Imperial Armed Forces. Surely you aren't suggesting that that sort of scenario differs from the ones you just (inaccurately) criticized Lazarenes for?

Yet his main nation resides in Balder & so does his WA. Whereas virtually all delegates in Lazarus' history have used the region to get ahead somewhere else as I have listed repeatedly.

by **Milograd** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:22 pm

Tano wrote:Hey look everyone, there's a really shiny topic over there. Let's go over and check it out

Is there cæk?

by **Tano** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:25 pm

Milograd wrote:
Tano wrote:Hey look everyone, there's a really shiny topic over there. Let's go over and check it out

Is there cæk?

Possibly. I do hear there's interesting commentary on the Lazarus elections though. Let's go discuss that

by **Unibot III** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:40 pm

Milograd wrote:
Solorni wrote:Anyone can keep their main nation in a region, that argument has only been used by you as some sort of paper shield.

...

A Page Earlier - Solorni wrote:Yet his main nation resides in Balder & so does his WA. Whereas virtually all delegates in Lazarus' history have used the region to get ahead somewhere else as I have listed repeatedly.

The only I know that fits Solorni's accusations is Vik - and she probably didn't mean Vik under her "virtually all" heading. :roll:

by **Solorni** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:53 pm

Why not?

by **Whiskum** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:12 pm

Milograd wrote:
A Page Earlier - Solorni wrote:Yet his main nation resides in Balder & so does his WA. Whereas virtually all delegates in Lazarus' history have used the region to get ahead somewhere else as I have listed repeatedly.

Unibot III wrote:The only I know that fits Solorni's accusations is Vik - and she probably didn't mean Vik under her "virtually all" heading.

Unibot, not once did Griffin ever use Lazarus 'to get ahead somewhere else'. That is an unsubstantiated and frankly scurrilous allegation.

If anything, her close involvement with senior FRA individuals in Lazarus, as well as the time being Delegate of Lazarus took, damaged her standing in TNI.

Throughout her involvement in Lazarus, Griffin never once attempted to steer the region towards imperialism - like most others, she supported its long-standing foreign policy. NES has already outlined that her voters at various points included NC and DYP. Now, you can criticize her time as Delegate, but the claim she was pushing it towards imperialism or that she benefited elsewhere personally from her involvement in Lazarus is a sheer and total nonsense.

by **Errum** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:23 pm

Tano wrote:
Milograd wrote:Is there cæk?

Possibly. I do hear there's interesting commentary on the Lazarus elections though. Let's go discuss that

Can people not fucking read or what >_>

Instead of wasting our time squabbling about something that neither sides will admit defeat on, lets actually discuss things that are happening now. This isn't NSG people, yet you sure as hell act like it :palm:

So then...what does everyone think about the other campaigns besides Funk and Fantome? I personally think Horse has the best shot after those two.

by **Common-Sense Politics** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:42 pm

If you use the word 'scurrilous' in an argument you automatically win. Let's move on to something else.

by **Mallorea and Riva** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Common-Sense Politics wrote:If you use the word 'scurrilous' in an argument you automatically win. Let's move on to something else.

^ Checkmate.

by **Unibot III** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:27 pm

Whiskum wrote:Unibot, not once did Griffin ever use Lazarus 'to get ahead somewhere else'. That is an unsubstantiated and frankly scurrilous allegation.

Specious trumpery. Try again. Griffin used her position and her influence in Lazarus to keep Lazarus in a position that was amendable to The New Inquisition. Hence why Griffin and NES worked together to try to dupe the UDL into helping them coup the Feux Administration (when it threatened to stray from such imperialism).

by **North East Somerset** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Whiskum wrote:Unibot, not once did Griffin ever use Lazarus 'to get ahead somewhere else'. That is an unsubstantiated and frankly scurrilous allegation.

Specious trumpery. Try again. Griffin used her position and her influence in Lazarus to keep Lazarus in a position that was amendable to The New Inquisition. Hence why Griffin and NES worked together to try to dupe the UDL into helping them coup the Feux Administration (when it threatened to stray from such imperialism).

It never "strayed" from imperialism because it was never imperialist. There were concerns Feux might coup which were correct cause he was at the time actively discussing plans with his NPO bosses to do just that, if he lost the election. In the end he didn't have to, and he went on to consolidate further power, before later couping anyway because "imperialist" members prevented him from bringing Lazarus into SovCon as he promised his NPO masters he would do.

by **Unibot III** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:39 pm

Hogwash. You contacted the UDL right after Feux's election, not before it. The timing is off for your story to be consistent.

by **North East Somerset** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:48 pm

Unibot III wrote:Hogwash. You contacted the UDL right after Feux's election, not before it. The timing is off for your story to be consistent.

Look, if you are in any shadow of a doubt as to what the intentions were of the Feux-NPO regime in Lazarus, I recommend you read these logs again, including all the references to yourself, I can point them out if you wish - suffice to say none of them are favourable:

Their position is totally indefensible and totally exposed - it's embarrassing trying to pretend they had any legitimacy or moral high ground.

by **Funkadelia** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:49 pm

Unibot III wrote:Hogwash. You contacted the UDL right after Feux's election, not before it. The timing is off for your story to be consistent.

by **Whiskum** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:50 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Whiskum wrote:Unibot, not once did Griffin ever use Lazarus 'to get ahead somewhere else'. That is an unsubstantiated and frankly scurrilous allegation.

Specious trumpery. Try again. Griffin used her position and her influence in Lazarus to keep Lazarus in a position that was amendable to The New Inquisition. Hence why Griffin and NES worked together to try to dupe the UDL into helping them coup the Feux Administration (when it threatened to stray from such imperialism).

'Try again' at addressing my remarks as a whole rather than responding to the opening remark - which you may well find lacking taken alone.

What is really 'specious' here are your consistent, flagrant and unashamed attempts to construct a total fiction about Griffin's time as Delegate.

Whatever lack of dynamism there may have been in the external policy of Lazarus, it was not because Griffin was influencing it towards imperialism: simply because she did no such thing - like other notables in the region, up until the period after the purge, she was committed to its traditional approach.

Griffin approached the UDL - a natural first port of call for imperialist coup attempts you seem to think - because she thought Feux intended to launch a coup. This concern was perfectly reasonable, given that Feux as we know discussed performing such a coup in the event he lost re-election, as shown here.

You trying to turn that concern into something it was not simply illustrates how the UDL treats long-standing natives who approach it with concerns if their concerns do not align with the UDL's political interests - in this case supporting the transformation of Lazarus into a defender Communist region.

Unibot III wrote:Hogwash. You contacted the UDL right after Feux's election, not before it. The timing is off for your story to be consistent.

NES did not claim that Griffin had seen that conversation of Feux telling the NPO he might coup Lazarus when she decided to approach the UDL.

The conversation however validates, as entirely legitimate, the concern of Griffin that Feux potentially had untoward intentions - hence why she reached out to the UDL - without mentioning anything about either her concerns about Feux or her approach to the UDL to TNI's government/military I might add.

by **North East Somerset** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:54 pm

Funkadelia wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Hogwash. You contacted the UDL right after Feux's election, not before it. The timing is off for your story to be consistent.

I doubt Unibot will appreciate the sentiment expressed there, indeed that's far more up my street.

I kinda like you. And I note you have the same avatar that Onderkelkia had for many years in LKE! Goodness knows what you are doing in Lazarus.

by **Funkadelia** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:55 pm

All I'm seeing in these logs is Feux tossing the idea around in frustration, and Gaspo egging him on and trying to make it a reality. I don't see any real intent to coup here from Feux, just from Gaspo who really had no direct part in this ordeal.

by **Solorni** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:09 pm

It's no wonder Feux was rewarded with a NPO Senatorship. The strings were way too visible. Those logs are highly amusing. I also love seeing them swear about NS like that, it's adorable how people take the game that seriously :lol:

All I'm seeing in these logs is Feux tossing the idea around in frustration, and Gaspo egging him on and trying to make it a reality. I don't see any real intent to coup here from Feux, just from Gaspo who really had no direct part in this ordeal.

Want some binoculars?

by **North East Somerset** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:13 pm

Funkadelia wrote:All I'm seeing in these logs is Feux tossing the idea around in frustration, and Gaspo egging him on and trying to make it a reality. I don't see any real intent to coup here from Feux, just from Gaspo who really had no direct part in this ordeal.

Surely the crux of the matter is that Feux went back whining to NPO HQ about the "situation" in Lazarus, showing that he was little more than an NPO puppet. It's pretty apparent that had he have lost the election, he'd have entrusted the NPO HQ under the leadership of Gaspo to organise the couping of Lazarus - and everyone in NPO was okay with that, bar possibly Cormac. Gaspo was only irrelevant because he was ditched later on due to the failure of SovCon despite his brash promises. He probably should have considered my deal a little closer - cause, guess what, look who's still in busi-NES.

I find it somewhat amusing that after all their troubles, NPO ended up with nothing and Lazarus is now in the hands of the FRA. Or is the FRA in NPO hands now? Who knows with some of these playas... :lol:

#10yearsofNES

by **Solorni** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:24 pm

What I don't get is that... isn't that Imperialism? Or is GCR-GCR imperialism not imperialism? Is it not imperialism because defending?

I just like seeing how people lap it up there. Are people like Funk self-aware or just naive?

by **A mean old man** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:24 pm

Oh, everyone here is always so amused. The difference between you and me right now is that I actually am; free of condescension, I can honestly state that I am amused by the fact that those logs are public. I say some fun shit in private areas that never makes it to the limelight. I'm only sorry you chose to censor my colorful choice of words.

by **Unibot III** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:49 pm

The really amusing part is those logs are old. They were released ages ago.

by **Solorni** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:59 pm

The really really amusing part is that we're supposed to be talking about the super important Lazarus elections. So let's stop getting off topic > : (

by **A mean old man** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:03 pm

She who smelt it dealt it. You and NES were the ones who posted and poked fun at these logs; don't try to stuff it under the carpet now that it looks dumb.

[EDIT: (at Uni)] I couldn't help but notice that as well. If NPO had wanted to hold Lazarus, all it really needed to do was exactly that: hold Lazarus. Two of its now-less-than-recent delegates were NPO Senators, for fuck's sake. Thing is, the NPO takeover that so many in the UIAF circle expected to pounce on never actually happened, so they're left dredging this garbage from over a year ago up in an attempt to keep whatever is left of their feud with (sometimes former) NPO members relevant. The bitterly estranged Cormac and Gaspo are also portrayed in the logs as primary engineers of the coup scheme, and the history between them and the NPO following the Sovcon era needs no repeating for this to warrant a chuckle.

The Rejected Times

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