NATION

PASSWORD

The Rejected Times: Issue LXIV

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6070
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:13 pm

As of late, TRT is posting some of the most interesting stuff in NSGP these days. Cheers.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 4666
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Fauxia » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:25 pm

Agalaesia wrote:So is Balder in a catch 22, where NSGP hates them for keeping all the power, but they can't relinquish the power because NSGP would overthrow them?

Pretty much, yes. Balder is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and most people don't want them to just reform. They want NES and Onder out, and you can't just expect them to do that, so I think NSGP should be realistic about that.

Let's rephrase this: NES and Onder don't relinquish power because they might have to relinquish power if they do. Yes, I think that's rather the point.

My criticisms of some of these answers aside, nonetheless another good, informative interview from TRT.
Last edited by Fauxia on Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.
Sandaoguo wrote:GP is a den of cynics and nihilists

User avatar
A Bloodred Moon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 167
Founded: Jan 13, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby A Bloodred Moon » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:55 pm

Fauxia wrote:Proscribing non-GP regions definitely seems outlandish (and just unnecessary) to me.

What?
Tags: Defender, Game Player, LGBT, and Medium.
Armaros

User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 4666
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Fauxia » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:39 pm

A Bloodred Moon wrote:
Fauxia wrote:Proscribing non-GP regions definitely seems outlandish (and just unnecessary) to me.

What?
Tags: Defender, Game Player, LGBT, and Medium.

I may or may not have gotten them mixed up with regionless in my attempt to criticize Balder.

Well, that makes more sense.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.
Sandaoguo wrote:GP is a den of cynics and nihilists

User avatar
Jar Wattinree
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1198
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:04 pm

Fauxia wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:What?

I may or may not have gotten them mixed up with regionless in my attempt to criticize Balder.

Well, that makes more sense.

Regionless also has the tag Game Player.
Tribune of the New Pacific Order
November 28, 2018
Senator of Admissions and Personnel
February 28, 2021

  • Governor of Province Ardere
  • Praetorian of the New Pacific Order
  • Council Elder of St Abbaddon
  • Game Warden of Forest
A 14.4 - 3.7 civilization, according to this index.


User avatar
Daytime to Night
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Dec 04, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daytime to Night » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:22 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Fauxia wrote:I may or may not have gotten them mixed up with regionless in my attempt to criticize Balder.

Well, that makes more sense.

Regionless also has the tag Game Player.


Probably was confusing them with Game Player Tagless
Former Minister of Security and Minister for Justice - the South Pacific

Potato General Numero Capatata

User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 4666
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Fauxia » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:35 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Fauxia wrote:I may or may not have gotten them mixed up with regionless in my attempt to criticize Balder.

Well, that makes more sense.

Regionless also has the tag Game Player.

Which does not actually mean it’s a gameplay region. It doesn’t for Founderless, either, but everyone there is a GPer.

But this is a tangent anyway.
Last edited by Fauxia on Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.
Sandaoguo wrote:GP is a den of cynics and nihilists

User avatar
North Prarie
Diplomat
 
Posts: 932
Founded: Nov 04, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby North Prarie » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:18 pm

Does TRT care to comment on the King of Balder’s most recent address to Parliament where he says that the perception survey was, quote, “somewhat dubious”, “stacked with voters, many of whom from GCRs that regard us unfavorably”, and had “a modicum of credibility”?
North Prarie. Prarie. Proud TSPer. DemSoc.
Hosting Experience
Prarie Classic Baseball Tournament
Copa South Pacifica 1
WPIC 5
Sporting Acheivments
Round of 16 at Handball World Cup 20
Women's Hockey Round of 16 at Prescott Winter Olympics 13
Prarie Classic Baseball Tournament Champions

Prariean Airlines-Pompeii Industries Luxury Cars-Phoenix Luxury Hotels (V2 Coming Soon)-Stonebridge Simbacat International Airport-Embassy Program
SBT BottomLine-President Valieant welcomes first child Pax, Social Democrats gain big wins in Parliament elections, Lions win NPBL, Cavaliers win Prarie Hockey Cup, NPFA announces slow move away from world affairs

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1312
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:10 am

North Prarie wrote:Does TRT care to comment on the King of Balder’s most recent address to Parliament where he says that the perception survey was, quote, “somewhat dubious”, “stacked with voters, many of whom from GCRs that regard us unfavorably”, and had “a modicum of credibility”?

How would TRT see anything in Balder's parliament? To them we're basically a boogeyman they use as an excuse to justify the intolerance of defenders they build their fledgling community on. So we don't get to see their parliament. :roll:

EDIT: OMG NES actually used space in the opening statement of their parliament to cry foul for being called out on their low activity and stagnancy!? That is hilarious! :rofl:
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
The Notorious Mad Jack
Diplomat
 
Posts: 798
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:33 am

North Prarie wrote:“stacked with voters, many of whom from GCRs that regard us unfavorably”

Considering where most of the stacking originated, one might wonder why TNPers might regard Balder unfavourably. XD
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6070
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:54 am

North Prarie wrote:Does TRT care to comment on the King of Balder’s most recent address to Parliament where he says that the perception survey was, quote, “somewhat dubious”, “stacked with voters, many of whom from GCRs that regard us unfavorably”, and had “a modicum of credibility”?


ITS A VERY BAD SURVEY. THEY'RE MEAN PEOPLE. I've got lots of graphs, better graphs -- if you'll take a look. We're better than THE WORLD on this stuff in every category. Better than anyone. Just last week even, our doctor, he did a check up just last week. He said he's never seen such an active region. Never. He told me he's seen a lot of regions but he's never seen one so active as Balder. Very active. And cultured. We've got more culture than you'll believe. We've got more culture than anyone.

It's such horrible things they said about us, you know? No region has ever been as badly mistreated as us. I hope they make a retraction. I really do. Believe me. And besides nobody cares about the activity stats anymore or the rights stuff, the important one is the stability rating. WE'RE NUMBER ONE. We're best in stability in 2020. And in 2019. And 2018. And we'll be best in stability forever. We're a greatly stable region.

(AND WE HAVE GREAT HAIR. We're not bald. It's real. It's real hair. Feel it. It's very real. No one has hair quite like our hair. Balder - the name is a joke, right? They named a region Balder but the people all have the bestest hair. Get it? It's a joke. You liberals can't take a joke.)
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58722
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Unibot III wrote:(AND WE HAVE GREAT HAIR. We're not bald. It's real. It's real hair. Feel it. It's very real. No one has hair quite like our hair. Balder - the name is a joke, right? They named a region Balder but the people all have the bestest hair. Get it? It's a joke. You liberals can't take a joke.)


Unibot is getting old confirmed.
Forumer mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Five blank lines will now follow





This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6070
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:53 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Unibot III wrote:(AND WE HAVE GREAT HAIR. We're not bald. It's real. It's real hair. Feel it. It's very real. No one has hair quite like our hair. Balder - the name is a joke, right? They named a region Balder but the people all have the bestest hair. Get it? It's a joke. You liberals can't take a joke.)


Unibot is getting old confirmed.


For real though, I’m actually going grey. :oops:
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Benevolent Thomas
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1461
Founded: Jun 10, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Benevolent Thomas » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:08 am

Agalaesia wrote:
How is it doing?

Not too hot. It got involved in a few operations, but we weren't invited to much and didn't have any spectacular numbers, despite joining it being practically a requirement for citizens. I tried to host some operations under the Balder flag, but Onder was unwilling to take even the slightest risk. If the operation wasn't guaranteed to have multiple GCR's support, as well as TBH and Europeia, then it was a no go, as he was afraid that failing any sort of operation would destroy Balder's public image or something, as if it wasn't already a terrible public image. I think Onder has an issue where he is so afraid of failure he is unwilling to take any sort of risk, even just a measly military operation.

It sounds like Balder is rather insecure from that. Would this be a fair description?

That's the perfect description.

Wow.



This is incredible. Playing NS had a role in my overcoming of fear of failure in real life. I can't imagine allowing a similar fear to cripple how I play this game. I think I actually feel sorry for Balder after reading this... I did not think this was possible.
Ballotonia wrote:Personally, I think there's something seriously wrong with a game if it willfully allows the destruction of longtime player communities in favor of kids whose sole purpose is to enjoy ruining the game for others.

User avatar
Onder Kelkia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 103
Founded: May 27, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Onder Kelkia » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:29 pm

Benevolent Thomas wrote:
Agalaesia wrote:
How is it doing?

Not too hot. It got involved in a few operations, but we weren't invited to much and didn't have any spectacular numbers, despite joining it being practically a requirement for citizens. I tried to host some operations under the Balder flag, but Onder was unwilling to take even the slightest risk. If the operation wasn't guaranteed to have multiple GCR's support, as well as TBH and Europeia, then it was a no go, as he was afraid that failing any sort of operation would destroy Balder's public image or something, as if it wasn't already a terrible public image. I think Onder has an issue where he is so afraid of failure he is unwilling to take any sort of risk, even just a measly military operation.

It sounds like Balder is rather insecure from that. Would this be a fair description?

That's the perfect description.

Wow.



This is incredible. Playing NS had a role in my overcoming of fear of failure in real life. I can't imagine allowing a similar fear to cripple how I play this game. I think I actually feel sorry for Balder after reading this... I did not think this was possible.

Notwithstanding Bowzin's wholly unnecessary attempt at amateur psychological analysis, his account of this point (and others) is a failure of interpretation.

If it was true that I was "so afraid of failure [that I am] unwilling to take any sort of risk, even just a measly military operation", then I would not have even attempted a fraction of the things that I have accomplished in the game, militarily or non-militarily. Both in terms of operations that I have led individually, and in terms of the operations of militaries I have overseen, there is a extremely long record of successful military occupations under my supervision. Most recently, after Bowzin's exit from the region, Balder and The West Pacific together conducted an occupation of The popular front for a united balder.

I do, however, demand high standards of operational security and professionalism. This is because I have plenty of experience regarding how to prevent operations going wrong and I prefer to use that experience to make sure that our operations succeed. Additionally, in line with Balder's long-standing independent foreign policy tradition, I view military operations as an integral part of foreign affairs, not as "just a measly military operation" to be done as an exercise with no consequences outside of the R/D mini-game. There is a a cost-benefit analysis to any operation, but that is wholly rational.

As I recall, on the single occasion where an occupation was proposed as an objective during Bowzin's tenure as Statsminister, the proposal was originally made by Vamperiall as Minister of War, not Bowzin as Statsminister. After Vamperiall suggested this, I then raised it with Bowzin because I liked the idea in principle, but Vamperiall had clarified that he was unavailable to be point. As such, I wanted to establish if Bowzin could do it. Subsequently, there happened to be a practical issue in aligning the dates of Bowzin's availability to act as delegate (to be online over a consecutive series of major and minor updates sufficient for a long-enough occupation) with the availability of multiple partners. I then determined that we should not rush into an occupation unnecessarily when an occupation could be conducted on a later occasion both more securely and with greater diplomatic benefits. The actual chain of events was quite different from Bowzin "[trying] to host some operations under the Balder flag, but Onder was unwilling to take even the slightest risk".

Possibly my decision was wrong, but it was not a sign of any deep-seated sense of insecurity, either on my own part or that of the region.
Vice Delegate and Crown Prince of Balder
Emperor Emeritus of The Land of Kings and Emperors
King Emeritus of Norwood, Basileus Emeritus of Polis, etc.

Prince of Jomsborg, Balder
Archduke, The New Inquisition
Viscount, Great Britain and Ireland

Balder Chief of Defence
Chief Justice of Europeia
Emperor of the LKE
LKE Prime Minister
LKE Chief of the Imperial General Staff

Crown Prince of TNI
Commander of TNI Armed Forces
Director General of TNI Intelligence

Balder Statsminister
Balder Foreign Minister
Balder Integration Minister

GB&I Home Secretary
GB&I First Sea Lord

Supreme Allied Commander, SRATO
Member, Imperial Military Council, UIAF

WA Delegate of The Rejected Realms

User avatar
North East Somerset
Diplomat
 
Posts: 719
Founded: Jun 11, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North East Somerset » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:58 am

For the record, regarding the recent coverage of Balder, I think the level of bias is very signficant and obvious, and a number of key points would easily have been clarified had the author chosen to speak to me to substantiate allegations, which I would have been happy to do - given I did so prior to the publishing of the original article (although little of what I said seems to have made it in, and I was not consulted for my view on all the allegations made in the article). In this case the "journalist" has deliberately not sought out the truth - but rather just run the more spectacular and anti-Balder story without giving the Balder Crown a chance to refute any of the points made following the publishing of the original article, and the "tell-all".

I would notice for instance that Bormiar completely overlooked Bowzin soundly contradicting a key part of the original article, ie. that Bowzin recruited Aquila and Griffindor, and was the "origin" of the coup plots. Bowzin says on the 16th August edition; "At this point I had also been talking with Griff, just about normal Balder business, and had seen he was very negative towards the Balder government setup and inner circle. On top of this, I was reached out to by Aq regarding Griff's intentions as well. Aq had said Griff had been planning a coup since he joined". When it suited for the narrative he follows Bowzins testimony, and when it doesn't, Griffindor. They cant both be innocent! And their contradictory testimony can't both be true. Its unquestionably true Bowzin created the server, but whether or not that meant he was the origin of all the plotting is not clear, and depends which testimony you believe.

I just want to clarify 2 false points of fact that I do have absolute facts on, and which are key to the articles:

The first concerns the dramatic testimony of Adriatican that I "forced" him to condemn Griffindor's actions, swear loyalty to the Crown, and recant things. This then seems to have become the basis of criticisms of the Balder Crown made by Church of Satan in recent days in another thread (addressed here; viewtopic.php?p=37553815#p37553815). It needs to be said, Adriatican's testimony is a completely fabricated fantasy - and the easiest way for me to prove that is simply to publish ALL of my conversation logs with Adriatican, which I have done below. If you read them, you'll see I never demanded any of the things he alleges, and simply gave him the option to disclose who was involved in Operation Heimdell and what was said. (Note embedded images have not copied over, but are not necessary to prove my point)

Adriaticans allegations as published in TRT (Aug 4th article) - bolded the section of testimony that is blatantly false as shown by the logs below;

When North East Somerset found out about the Heimdall server, he appears to have requested that its conspirators confess to treason and declare loyalty to the Crown. In exchange, the players would be granted immunity. This is ostensibly a legal requirement per section 3.1.b of the Criminal Code. The law, provided to me by North East Somerset, specifically states that “any party, upon having made a reasonable attempt in a timely fashion to disclose [information regarding treason], shall have impunity of this offense”. The law appears to read as though anyone who leaked the activities receives immunity, while those who did not leak it but chose to cooperate still do not receive immunity, because that would not be made in a “timely fashion” or be a “reasonable attempt” at all. They were given immunity regardless, likely in order to facilitate their cooperation.

Aquila was indifferent (as he was with the entire debacle) to receiving immunity.17 Unlike his friend, Adriatican was not happy about the agreement. In a conversation with Griffindor, Adriatican explained that he and Bowzin were “forced” to condemn Griffindor’s actions and swear loyalty to the Crown. “NES has essentially rendered [Griffindor] unable to call a witness involved, as we would either have to perjure ourselves to side with [Griffindor] and get kicked out, or recant our condemnations to side with [Griffindor], and get kicked out”, he tells Griffindor. “He very much blackmailed us, or at the very least, seriously leaned on us in a way unbecoming of the Crown. [...] He forced us to choose between our collective citizenship and political careers, or the guillotine, and I’m honestly disappointed in myself, that I didn’t choose the latter”.18 19 While the accusations directed at North East Somerset may be exaggerations, it is a major flaw of the judicial system in Balder that witnesses would be granted immunity in exchange for signing a statement that didn’t allow them to testify.


Honestly, this is worth a read for anyone that wants a flavour of the "truth" - as its just so different from what the article portrays... below, All logs between me and Adriatican, totally unredacted, and the most relevant section bolded:


NES02/14/2020
Hello
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Your Majesty.
NES02/14/2020
Good Evening
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Good evening to you as well.
NES02/14/2020
I wish it was under better circumstances we had this first conversation
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
As do I. I am here to bow to your greater wisdom however. What may I help you with in service to the Realm?
NES02/14/2020
I wanted to know what your perspective is broadly on the role of the Crown in Balder?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Well, I can tell you only what the general consensus is regarding His Majesty’s Ministers and constituents.

That being, that the Crown has positioned itself as limiting to the delegates which run the government in its name, and should strive to emulate the British Government via the Advisory, Assent, and Guidance role, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has positioned her monarchy under.

My experience working with His Royal Highness the Crown Prince, and serving in the Government in His Majesty’s name has been pleasant and efficient, but I must highlight the will of our constituents for more autonomy, and greater ability to make the changes they wish to see, something a strong monarch may not be conducive to.
NES02/14/2020
I would say the chances of changing the constitutional settlement and fundamental balance of power that was only just recently come to, are fairly remote.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed. I believe if we had a solid executive in the legislative, or a liaison between the Crown and Government, willing to calmly, effectively, constructively, and productively, work with, and between the two, there may be significant improvement.
NES02/14/2020
However, its come to my attention that treasonous plotting has been undertaken.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed.
NES02/14/2020
With a view to removing power from the Crown, even if necessary securing the delegacy militarily.
Which is clearly a bit out of hand.
What are your views on this?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
A military security of the delegacy? This I was unaware of.
NES02/14/2020
Right, but a general movement to remove power from the Crown?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
The most I have been akin to was a coordination between Ministers and the Government to limit the power of the Crown within the powers of their respective roles and institutions.

Unethical perhaps, but perhaps also not illegal. Indeed however, that falls to the jurisdiction of Your Majesty’s opinion.
NES02/14/2020
Coordination between Ministers and the Government?
Who was involved in this?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed, and I beg Your Majesty’s pardon, but if I inform you of such, I must be guaranteed anonymity, and immunity from retribution from the Government.
NES02/14/2020
Its definitely in your interests to inform me as such
See 3.1.a; "This shall include collusion; any and all parties, upon discovery of such activities or plans, having made no reasonable attempt in a timely fashion, to disclose any pertinent information to the Delegate, Vice Delegate or a member of the Royal family shall be found guilty of the same offense and liable to the same punishment"
I'm trying to give you a route out basically.
So I can only advise you to talk to me, the full story, and quickly.
Given that I have approached you, it might be dubious whether you have made a "reasonable attempt in a timely fashion" - but regardless, its better to make an attempt in any fashion than none.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Mmmm, then it’s my sad duty to inform you that the Rt. Honorable Statsminister, the Delegate from Bowzin, the Rt. Honorable Talman, the Delegate from Gryffindor, and the Rt. Honorable Deputy Talman, the Delegate from Aquila, that were directly involved in attempts as described, to limit the Crown’s power, with myself as an advocate of working with the Crown wherever possible.
NES02/14/2020
Thank you.
In your view
Who was ringleader of this?
Who approached you about it initially.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
In order, Gryffindor, then Bowzin, with Aquila as a vigorous cheerleader, but, to my knowledge, not much more.
NES02/14/2020
Thank you.
And I think its "Griffindor" not with a y.
But nonetheless, no loss of clarity from that.
Sorry, so, who approached you initially again?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Griffindor.
NES02/14/2020
On what date in your view did the endeavour take an organised form?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Shortly after my initial submission of the RAEA, January 30, 2020 or so.
NES02/14/2020
Can you tell me what the "codename" of that organisation was called?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
I believe it was titled “Operation Hemdall” or something akin to that.

NES02/14/2020
Heimdall, yes
Did you speak with all 3 of the other individuals involved privately outside of this server?
And can I just say, sorry for the questioning, it will be over soon, and I immensely appreciate your co-operation - you're doing the right thing.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
How do you mean?

And at the end of the day, I’m here to serve the Realm.
NES02/14/2020
nods
So yeah, you spoke with the other 3 privately outside of the server?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Like outside of the Hemdall server? Here on Balder supported servers?
NES02/14/2020
No personal conversations I mean
1 to 1
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
In DM’s?
I’m sorry
NES02/14/2020
Yes
DM's
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
All 3?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
Your on mobile atm?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
Will you be on desktop any time in the near future?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
No, but what do you need?
NES02/14/2020
Would it possible for you to furnish me with relevant, non-personal logs of your discussions in relation to these matters with those individuals?
Obviously that might require some editing in terms of removal of non-Balder related business.
Hence why it might not be possible to do on mobile.
Equally, if you have any conversations that are relevant to this matter, that you can obtain on mobile, that would be greatly appreciated.
NES02/14/2020
Anyway thanks for your time, lets talk again soon.
salutes
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Here’s what I’d consider the most important:



NES02/14/2020
Have you got anything between you and Bowzin?
And thanks
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
I have to upload one by one, my internet is super slow


NES02/14/2020
Your doing great
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Thank you, Your Majesty.
NES02/15/2020
Send anything my way if you have anything from Bowzin or Eriadni that may shed any further light.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020


NES02/15/2020
Great
dmofadriatican02/15/2020


If I may ask, what are you going to do with these screenshots?
NES02/15/2020
Comparing them to what I already have at the moment is all :stuck_out_tongue:
I mean its all true, although you're all showing me slightly different bits, so piecing it together.
But I'm not getting the impression you are the problem here tbh.
You were led astray ultimately.
Anything of interest with Eriadni?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Just this:

NES02/15/2020
Haha, cheers
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
So what’s going to happen to everyone?
NES02/15/2020
I think you're going to be okay.
I can't speak for everyone else Im afraid.
I want the best outcome for Balder.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Of that I’m certain, but what punishment are you going to pursue for them?
NES02/15/2020
Its up to the Courts to enforce but most likely; Griffindor - treason and deception - I can't see how he can come back from this.
Eriadni is teetering on the brink, and you and Bowzin are ok.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I must ask His Majesty to come into the employ of the Royal Family, after this is all said and done, as I doubt I will be able to serve the government under Bowzin’s Statsministry.
NES02/15/2020
Go on?
Why would you not be able to serve?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Griffindor is a mutual friend and colleague, and with him gone, or punished, the suspicion amongst those who shared the server with him, would create an untenable environment under which to be subordinate.
NES02/15/2020
Suspicion of what?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Who said what, and was largely responsible for his punishment and this entire situation
NES02/15/2020
Well you said he was ringleader and he approached you initially.
And so has everyone else basically.
So its pretty obvious he was at the root of this.
Clearly he may have been a mutual friend and colleague, but he's committed treason and deception, and all 3 of the rest of you have independently named him as the ringleader, and given the others up.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I do understand, but the animosity will remain, in my opinion.
Creating an untenable Cabinet for anyone who was also involved.
However, if you’d rather me remain, and Bowzin intends to appoint me as Exchequer as was originally planned, then remain and serve I shall.
NES02/15/2020
Absolutely I would rather you remain.
And I hope we will have a many more productive and positive discussions in the future.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I have published a post condemning the former Talman and his acts, affirming and swearing loyalty to the Crown, and assuming the Talmany (retaining Aquila as Deputy since Bowzin’s statement insinuated you will not be prosecuting anyone but Griffindor)

If you approve of the statement, and me assuming the role of Acting Talman for the reminder of the Term, with Aquila as my Deputy, I humbly ask for a post affirming such, and the appropriate masking and authority as well.
NES02/15/2020
An excellent address. I'll make a formal response tomorrow. Thanks for your time. :thumbsup:
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Thank you. I hope I can count on your support for my Talmany in said response, and across the remainder of the Term.
I look forward to putting this behind us, and building a fruitful and engaging region for our constituents.


Then, secondly, I just want to address a point from the "tell-all" interview with Bowzin on 16th Aug:

Anyway, it wasn't until a little later that I created the Heimdall server, and at this point I had already decided I was going to expose the coup plot to NES [refers to North East Somerset]. I told him before creating the server, and told him I intended to create the server to keep an eye on them and gather more evidence. NES seemed pretty neutral at that point, not considering them a threat, or even considering it treason since it seemed more like they were trying to reform.


This is not correct. The first I knew of anything was Bowzin reporting generic unspecified "suspicious behaviour" of Griffindor on 29th January, to which I responded that it seemed strange as he's been with us for a long time. Bowzin said he would keep an eye on it, but made no mention of making a server. The first I knew of any server being created was when Bowzin sent me this screenshot on the 1st February, which was the one where Griffindor mentioned military action:

Image


I then asked him for full text logs en masse, because I needed more context as "you might have started the discussion of securing the delegacy for all I know from the context of that screenshot". I then received a full download of logs from the server, which precipitated the full investigation and subsequent actions. So any concept of a "sting operation" is utterly false and easily disproveable from my perspective - should anyone have bothered to ask me in their quest for "truth". Although that didn't stop such a conspiracy theory becoming a whole paragraph of the original 4th Aug article;

In this depiction of the events, Bowzin may have assisted North East Somerset to conduct a sting operation against those who may have been seen as a threat to the Crown. Bowzin would’ve found the players who he knew expressed anti-Balder opinions, feign sympathy and agreement, and proceed to suggest reform. It was Bowzin who recruited Aquila and Griffindor. It was Bowzin who formalized Operation Heimdall by creating the server. He simply had to bide his time until one of the players messed up. Bowzin then provided the direct message (i.e. just Bowzin and Griffindor) logs which were crucial in convicting Griffindor. This scenario possibly implicates not only King North East Somerset, but also Crown Prince Onderkelkia, the Arbiter in Griffindor’s trial, as he works closely with North East Somerset. That would make Griffindor’s trial phony and unfair.


Again, just proving the point I started with. That this whole "journalistic endeavour" is little more than a shambolic and transparent smear attempt. One that has miserably failed, drowned in it's own inconsistencies between the testimony of different individuals involved in the plot - and failure to consult the Balder Crown following any of the publications, to allow it to refute any of the more fanciful allegations made against it, which it then chose to use as the central basis for its narratives.
Last edited by North East Somerset on Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:00 am, edited 15 times in total.
NES: Beast of Balder

King of Balder
Lord High Steward in The LKE
Director of the Europeian Intelligence Agency

User avatar
Agalaesia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Sep 23, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Agalaesia » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:05 am

Hi NES.

Thanks for your comments about the article. If you wish to set the record straight, I would be glad to interview you about this situation and publish it in the upcoming edition of the Rejected Times, or alternatively, you would be more than welcome to submit an article about Balder or Operation Heimdall to be published in the Rejected Times. Entirely up to you whether you accept or decline.

If you wish to do either of those things, I would be happy to contact you on Discord.

Thanks,
Aga - Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times.
Agalaesia

EiC of EPNS, fmr. EiC of TRT | NSGE and Paradoxical Organiser | Outreach Officer of TRR | Co-Founder of Kaer Solas, also does a few other boring things

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1020
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:25 pm

To preface this, I did contact NES in regards to the Operation Heimdall article, and we had a very good discussion on it. He's right that I didn't quote him a lot, but that was unintentional. After speaking to NES, the Heimdall article was heavily reworked so that it would not be anti-Balder or anti-Crown, instead anti-Bowzin :P. Additionally, the article, after speaking with NES, became quite clear that attempting to coup Balder will never work, implying that you shouldn't attempt to coup Balder, even if you wanted to. That's something that Balder should love, considering that they're unlikely to convince NSGPers not to want to coup them.

I wanted to ask NES a few minor questions after our initial 2 discussions, but I was under the impression that he was reluctant to speak with me. Clearly this was wrong, but my questions would not have effected the article significantly.

On to NES' points:

North East Somerset wrote:without giving the Balder Crown a chance to refute any of the points made following the publishing of the original article, and the "tell-all".

Anyone can comment here. I assumed you would see it without being told.

North East Somerset wrote:I would notice for instance that Bormiar completely overlooked Bowzin soundly contradicting a key part of the original article, ie. that Bowzin recruited Aquila and Griffindor, and was the "origin" of the coup plots. Bowzin says on the 16th August edition; "At this point I had also been talking with Griff, just about normal Balder business, and had seen he was very negative towards the Balder government setup and inner circle. On top of this, I was reached out to by Aq regarding Griff's intentions as well. Aq had said Griff had been planning a coup since he joined". When it suited for the narrative he follows Bowzins testimony, and when it doesn't, Griffindor. They cant both be innocent! And their contradictory testimony can't both be true. Its unquestionably true Bowzin created the server, but whether or not that meant he was the origin of all the plotting is not clear, and depends which testimony you believe.

"They cant both be innocent!"

They're both guilty. The Heimdall article shows Griffindor clearly planning a military coup, lying, and not refuting all of the defense's (prosecution's) evidence. While I contradicted some of the evidence against Griffindor that was obviously flimsy, I portrayed him discussing "securing the delegacy" without defense for him. Frankly, I think he's guilty of both treason and espionage, and I thought that was an obvious conclusion.

Bowzin admits to guilt.

As for Bowzin contradicting Griffindor on who organized the operation, I'm more inclined to believe Bowzin. However, Bowzin's interview was written after the Operation Heimdall article, so this criticism is very unfair. Bowzin would not initially speak to me-- I only had the logs and interviews of NES/Aquila/Griffindor. I'll try and have the link to Bowzin later contradicting the heimdall article placed in the heimdall article.

North East Somerset wrote:I just want to clarify 2 false points of fact that I do have absolute facts on, and which are key to the articles:

The first concerns the dramatic testimony of Adriatican that I "forced" him to condemn Griffindor's actions, swear loyalty to the Crown, and recant things. This then seems to have become the basis of criticisms of the Balder Crown made by Church of Satan in recent days in another thread (addressed here; viewtopic.php?p=37553815#p37553815). It needs to be said, Adriatican's testimony is a completely fabricated fantasy - and the easiest way for me to prove that is simply to publish ALL of my conversation logs with Adriatican, which I have done below. If you read them, you'll see I never demanded any of the things he alleges, and simply gave him the option to disclose who was involved in Operation Heimdell and what was said. (Note embedded images have not copied over, but are not necessary to prove my point)

Adriaticans allegations as published in TRT (Aug 4th article) - bolded the section of testimony that is blatantly false as shown by the logs below;

When North East Somerset found out about the Heimdall server, he appears to have requested that its conspirators confess to treason and declare loyalty to the Crown. In exchange, the players would be granted immunity. This is ostensibly a legal requirement per section 3.1.b of the Criminal Code. The law, provided to me by North East Somerset, specifically states that “any party, upon having made a reasonable attempt in a timely fashion to disclose [information regarding treason], shall have impunity of this offense”. The law appears to read as though anyone who leaked the activities receives immunity, while those who did not leak it but chose to cooperate still do not receive immunity, because that would not be made in a “timely fashion” or be a “reasonable attempt” at all. They were given immunity regardless, likely in order to facilitate their cooperation.

Aquila was indifferent (as he was with the entire debacle) to receiving immunity.17 Unlike his friend, Adriatican was not happy about the agreement. In a conversation with Griffindor, Adriatican explained that he and Bowzin were “forced” to condemn Griffindor’s actions and swear loyalty to the Crown. “NES has essentially rendered [Griffindor] unable to call a witness involved, as we would either have to perjure ourselves to side with [Griffindor] and get kicked out, or recant our condemnations to side with [Griffindor], and get kicked out”, he tells Griffindor. “He very much blackmailed us, or at the very least, seriously leaned on us in a way unbecoming of the Crown. [...] He forced us to choose between our collective citizenship and political careers, or the guillotine, and I’m honestly disappointed in myself, that I didn’t choose the latter”.18 19 While the accusations directed at North East Somerset may be exaggerations, it is a major flaw of the judicial system in Balder that witnesses would be granted immunity in exchange for signing a statement that didn’t allow them to testify.


Honestly, this is worth a read for anyone that wants a flavour of the "truth" - as its just so different from what the article portrays... below, All logs between me and Adriatican, totally unredacted, and the most relevant section bolded:


NES02/14/2020
Hello
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Your Majesty.
NES02/14/2020
Good Evening
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Good evening to you as well.
NES02/14/2020
I wish it was under better circumstances we had this first conversation
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
As do I. I am here to bow to your greater wisdom however. What may I help you with in service to the Realm?
NES02/14/2020
I wanted to know what your perspective is broadly on the role of the Crown in Balder?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Well, I can tell you only what the general consensus is regarding His Majesty’s Ministers and constituents.

That being, that the Crown has positioned itself as limiting to the delegates which run the government in its name, and should strive to emulate the British Government via the Advisory, Assent, and Guidance role, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has positioned her monarchy under.

My experience working with His Royal Highness the Crown Prince, and serving in the Government in His Majesty’s name has been pleasant and efficient, but I must highlight the will of our constituents for more autonomy, and greater ability to make the changes they wish to see, something a strong monarch may not be conducive to.
NES02/14/2020
I would say the chances of changing the constitutional settlement and fundamental balance of power that was only just recently come to, are fairly remote.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed. I believe if we had a solid executive in the legislative, or a liaison between the Crown and Government, willing to calmly, effectively, constructively, and productively, work with, and between the two, there may be significant improvement.
NES02/14/2020
However, its come to my attention that treasonous plotting has been undertaken.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed.
NES02/14/2020
With a view to removing power from the Crown, even if necessary securing the delegacy militarily.
Which is clearly a bit out of hand.
What are your views on this?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
A military security of the delegacy? This I was unaware of.
NES02/14/2020
Right, but a general movement to remove power from the Crown?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
The most I have been akin to was a coordination between Ministers and the Government to limit the power of the Crown within the powers of their respective roles and institutions.

Unethical perhaps, but perhaps also not illegal. Indeed however, that falls to the jurisdiction of Your Majesty’s opinion.
NES02/14/2020
Coordination between Ministers and the Government?
Who was involved in this?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Indeed, and I beg Your Majesty’s pardon, but if I inform you of such, I must be guaranteed anonymity, and immunity from retribution from the Government.
NES02/14/2020
Its definitely in your interests to inform me as such
See 3.1.a; "This shall include collusion; any and all parties, upon discovery of such activities or plans, having made no reasonable attempt in a timely fashion, to disclose any pertinent information to the Delegate, Vice Delegate or a member of the Royal family shall be found guilty of the same offense and liable to the same punishment"
I'm trying to give you a route out basically.
So I can only advise you to talk to me, the full story, and quickly.
Given that I have approached you, it might be dubious whether you have made a "reasonable attempt in a timely fashion" - but regardless, its better to make an attempt in any fashion than none.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Mmmm, then it’s my sad duty to inform you that the Rt. Honorable Statsminister, the Delegate from Bowzin, the Rt. Honorable Talman, the Delegate from Gryffindor, and the Rt. Honorable Deputy Talman, the Delegate from Aquila, that were directly involved in attempts as described, to limit the Crown’s power, with myself as an advocate of working with the Crown wherever possible.
NES02/14/2020
Thank you.
In your view
Who was ringleader of this?
Who approached you about it initially.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
In order, Gryffindor, then Bowzin, with Aquila as a vigorous cheerleader, but, to my knowledge, not much more.
NES02/14/2020
Thank you.
And I think its "Griffindor" not with a y.
But nonetheless, no loss of clarity from that.
Sorry, so, who approached you initially again?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Griffindor.
NES02/14/2020
On what date in your view did the endeavour take an organised form?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Shortly after my initial submission of the RAEA, January 30, 2020 or so.
NES02/14/2020
Can you tell me what the "codename" of that organisation was called?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
I believe it was titled “Operation Hemdall” or something akin to that.

NES02/14/2020
Heimdall, yes
Did you speak with all 3 of the other individuals involved privately outside of this server?
And can I just say, sorry for the questioning, it will be over soon, and I immensely appreciate your co-operation - you're doing the right thing.
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
How do you mean?

And at the end of the day, I’m here to serve the Realm.
NES02/14/2020
nods
So yeah, you spoke with the other 3 privately outside of the server?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Like outside of the Hemdall server? Here on Balder supported servers?
NES02/14/2020
No personal conversations I mean
1 to 1
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
In DM’s?
I’m sorry
NES02/14/2020
Yes
DM's
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
All 3?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
Your on mobile atm?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Yes.
NES02/14/2020
Will you be on desktop any time in the near future?
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
No, but what do you need?
NES02/14/2020
Would it possible for you to furnish me with relevant, non-personal logs of your discussions in relation to these matters with those individuals?
Obviously that might require some editing in terms of removal of non-Balder related business.
Hence why it might not be possible to do on mobile.
Equally, if you have any conversations that are relevant to this matter, that you can obtain on mobile, that would be greatly appreciated.
NES02/14/2020
Anyway thanks for your time, lets talk again soon.
salutes
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
Here’s what I’d consider the most important:



NES02/14/2020
Have you got anything between you and Bowzin?
And thanks
dmofadriatican02/14/2020
I have to upload one by one, my internet is super slow


NES02/14/2020
Your doing great
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Thank you, Your Majesty.
NES02/15/2020
Send anything my way if you have anything from Bowzin or Eriadni that may shed any further light.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020


NES02/15/2020
Great
dmofadriatican02/15/2020


If I may ask, what are you going to do with these screenshots?
NES02/15/2020
Comparing them to what I already have at the moment is all :stuck_out_tongue:
I mean its all true, although you're all showing me slightly different bits, so piecing it together.
But I'm not getting the impression you are the problem here tbh.
You were led astray ultimately.
Anything of interest with Eriadni?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Just this:

NES02/15/2020
Haha, cheers
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
So what’s going to happen to everyone?
NES02/15/2020
I think you're going to be okay.
I can't speak for everyone else Im afraid.
I want the best outcome for Balder.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Of that I’m certain, but what punishment are you going to pursue for them?
NES02/15/2020
Its up to the Courts to enforce but most likely; Griffindor - treason and deception - I can't see how he can come back from this.
Eriadni is teetering on the brink, and you and Bowzin are ok.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I must ask His Majesty to come into the employ of the Royal Family, after this is all said and done, as I doubt I will be able to serve the government under Bowzin’s Statsministry.
NES02/15/2020
Go on?
Why would you not be able to serve?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Griffindor is a mutual friend and colleague, and with him gone, or punished, the suspicion amongst those who shared the server with him, would create an untenable environment under which to be subordinate.
NES02/15/2020
Suspicion of what?
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Who said what, and was largely responsible for his punishment and this entire situation
NES02/15/2020
Well you said he was ringleader and he approached you initially.
And so has everyone else basically.
So its pretty obvious he was at the root of this.
Clearly he may have been a mutual friend and colleague, but he's committed treason and deception, and all 3 of the rest of you have independently named him as the ringleader, and given the others up.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I do understand, but the animosity will remain, in my opinion.
Creating an untenable Cabinet for anyone who was also involved.
However, if you’d rather me remain, and Bowzin intends to appoint me as Exchequer as was originally planned, then remain and serve I shall.
NES02/15/2020
Absolutely I would rather you remain.
And I hope we will have a many more productive and positive discussions in the future.
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
I have published a post condemning the former Talman and his acts, affirming and swearing loyalty to the Crown, and assuming the Talmany (retaining Aquila as Deputy since Bowzin’s statement insinuated you will not be prosecuting anyone but Griffindor)

If you approve of the statement, and me assuming the role of Acting Talman for the reminder of the Term, with Aquila as my Deputy, I humbly ask for a post affirming such, and the appropriate masking and authority as well.
NES02/15/2020
An excellent address. I'll make a formal response tomorrow. Thanks for your time. :thumbsup:
dmofadriatican02/15/2020
Thank you. I hope I can count on your support for my Talmany in said response, and across the remainder of the Term.
I look forward to putting this behind us, and building a fruitful and engaging region for our constituents.


NES is not contradicting anything I said here. Frankly, I also thought Adriatican was full of shit, but didn't want to insult him personally-- I tried not to insult anyone. As such, the articles portrays Adriatican as what he was -- a in-over-his-head, hyperbolic zealot -- when I speculated that he was Popular Front for United Balder (suggested to me by NES). I only actually brought up Adriatican's thoughts on the matter because Griffindor accused the Crown of blackmail or similar during his trial and using that quote as evidence. I said that Adriatican may have been exaggerating, which is essentially code for "Don't take this at face value!". I don't think anyone who read my article believed Adriatican. His claim was too obviously exaggerated.

Though it is interesting that Adriatican asked for immunity.

For the record, I did ask NES for his thoughts on immunity, and I did put them in.

When North East Somerset found out about the Heimdall server, he appears to have requested that its conspirators confess to treason and declare loyalty to the Crown. In exchange, the players would be granted immunity. This is ostensibly a legal requirement per section 3.1.b of the Criminal Code. The law, provided to me by North East Somerset, specifically states that “any party, upon having made a reasonable attempt in a timely fashion to disclose [information regarding treason], shall have impunity of this offense”. The law appears to read as though anyone who leaked the activities receives immunity, while those who did not leak it but chose to cooperate still do not receive immunity, because that would not be made in a “timely fashion” or be a “reasonable attempt” at all. They were given immunity regardless, likely in order to facilitate their cooperation.


The NES/Adriatican logs above just solidify the truth behind my speculation that he gave them immunity to facilitate cooperation (or maybe he was just being nice). "I'm trying to give you a route out basically. So I can only advise you to talk to me, the full story, and quickly. Given that I have approached you, it might be dubious whether you have made a 'reasonable attempt in a timely fashion' - but regardless, its better to make an attempt in any fashion than none." (I removed the line breaks). He interpreted the law as I did in the paragraph above.

I didn't bring up that specific screenshot because, in response to it being brought forth by Griffindor in the trial, the defense contradicted it in the same way that you rightfully defended the immunity choice. They write, "Offering immunity in exchange for cooperation does not meet the elements of any offence".

The part of this section that I can see NES being reasonably upset about is me writing "it is a major flaw of the judicial system in Balder that witnesses would be granted immunity in exchange for signing a statement that didn’t allow them to testify." Evidently, this claim was founded on a lie from Adriatican to Griffindor. Mea Culpa.

However, you claim that this was a key point to the article. My article is 4600 words and barely talks about "blackmail" with regards to immunity. I just brought it up because it was relevant to Griffindor's opinions in the trial, and the trial was relevant to the story.

North East Somerset wrote:Then, secondly, I just want to address a point from the "tell-all" interview with Bowzin on 16th Aug:

Anyway, it wasn't until a little later that I created the Heimdall server, and at this point I had already decided I was going to expose the coup plot to NES [refers to North East Somerset]. I told him before creating the server, and told him I intended to create the server to keep an eye on them and gather more evidence. NES seemed pretty neutral at that point, not considering them a threat, or even considering it treason since it seemed more like they were trying to reform.


This is not correct. The first I knew of anything was Bowzin reporting generic unspecified "suspicious behaviour" of Griffindor on 29th January, to which I responded that it seemed strange as he's been with us for a long time. Bowzin said he would keep an eye on it, but made no mention of making a server. The first I knew of any server being created was when Bowzin sent me this screenshot on the 1st February, which was the one where Griffindor mentioned military action:

Image


I then asked him for full text logs en masse, because I needed more context as "you might have started the discussion of securing the delegacy for all I know from the context of that screenshot". I then received a full download of logs from the server, which precipitated the full investigation and subsequent actions. So any concept of a "sting operation" is utterly false and easily disproveable from my perspective - should anyone have bothered to ask me in their quest for "truth". Although that didn't stop such a conspiracy theory becoming a whole paragraph of the original 4th Aug article;

In this depiction of the events, Bowzin may have assisted North East Somerset to conduct a sting operation against those who may have been seen as a threat to the Crown. Bowzin would’ve found the players who he knew expressed anti-Balder opinions, feign sympathy and agreement, and proceed to suggest reform. It was Bowzin who recruited Aquila and Griffindor. It was Bowzin who formalized Operation Heimdall by creating the server. He simply had to bide his time until one of the players messed up. Bowzin then provided the direct message (i.e. just Bowzin and Griffindor) logs which were crucial in convicting Griffindor. This scenario possibly implicates not only King North East Somerset, but also Crown Prince Onderkelkia, the Arbiter in Griffindor’s trial, as he works closely with North East Somerset. That would make Griffindor’s trial phony and unfair.


Yeah, that makes sense. It's certainly what I thought happened. When you quoted that paragraph of mine, you did not contextualize it. The paragraph was entirely based on Bowzin saying that you guys knew about Operation Heimdall the whole time. I concluded with what I thought was most reasonable (heavily influenced by discussions with NES):

The other scenario is that Griffindor or Aquila discussed reform with Bowzin, and, in what could only be called opportunism, Bowzin decided to inform North East Somerset of a “coup attempt”, intended to weaken the Crown. Bowzin created the Operation Heimdall server, formalizing the idea of reforming Balder. He then waited for Griffindor to slip up, and they would have the evidence to convict. As his plan had come to fruition, Bowzin informed North East Somerset of the coup attempt. In protecting North East Somerset’s power, Bowzin would’ve likely solidified trust from North East Somerset during the early days of his statsminister service. This is by far the most likely scenario, as it is devoid of wicked conspiring with questionable likelihood for success, and fits all the evidence perfectly. It is also a textbook case of opportunism consuming a player.


I'm actually surprised you contradicted Bowzin. Bowzin was saying in his interview that you guys were tolerant of reform so long as it wasn't illegal, and that you stepped in the second it became bad. That's patient and reasonable. And the scenario you propose isn't much different.

North East Somerset wrote:Again, just proving the point I started with. That this whole "journalistic endeavour" is little more than a shambolic and transparent smear attempt. One that has miserably failed, drowned in it's own inconsistencies between the testimony of different individuals involved in the plot - and failure to consult the Balder Crown following any of the publications, to allow it to refute any of the more fanciful allegations made against it, which it then chose to use as the central basis for its narratives.


I... I don't where you could get this from. Both of the comments that you made are about minor points and I actually agree with you. The bias you were upset about came straight out of the mouths of Adriatican and Bowzin.

It's not as though I was trying to avoid your comments by not linking the article. I had just assumed you watched the GP forum.

Because you have pertinent commentary, Aga is going to link it at the top of the Bowzin interview. Your commentary and Bowzin's interview will also be linked at the top of the Operation Heimdall article, because they contradict things it said.
Last edited by Bormiar on Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
North East Somerset
Diplomat
 
Posts: 719
Founded: Jun 11, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North East Somerset » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Well that all appears very reasonable on the face of it, I'm just not sure your readers are drawing all the wise and sensible conclusions that you seemingly have, from these articles.

You claim that (pertinent point bolded):

Bormiar wrote:As such, the articles portrays Adriatican as what he was -- a in-over-his-head, hyperbolic zealot -- when I speculated that he was Popular Front for United Balder (suggested to me by NES). I only actually brought up Adriatican's thoughts on the matter because Griffindor accused the Crown of blackmail or similar during his trial and using that quote as evidence. I said that Adriatican may have been exaggerating, which is essentially code for "Don't take this at face value!". I don't think anyone who read my article believed Adriatican. His claim was too obviously exaggerated.


But yet a distinguished member of TRR, and Senior Correspondant of The Rejected Times, the Church of Satan, appears to have absolutely taken Adriatican's points at face value here; https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=37546804#p37546804 Presumably if anyone could read through your "essentially code" style writing, an experienced gameplayer and Senior Correspondant of this actual paper would be able to, yet he took it for fact.

Bormiar wrote:The part of this section that I can see NES being reasonably upset about is me writing "it is a major flaw of the judicial system in Balder that witnesses would be granted immunity in exchange for signing a statement that didn’t allow them to testify." Evidently, this claim was founded on a lie from Adriatican to Griffindor. Mea Culpa.


That is true, the claim was a lie, and thank you for acknowledging that and clarifying it here.

Bormiar wrote:They're both guilty. The Heimdall article shows Griffindor clearly planning a military coup, lying, and not refuting all of the defense's (prosecution's) evidence. Frankly, I think he's guilty of both treason and espionage, and I thought that was an obvious conclusion.


Again, yes this is objectively true, and its nice to see you state this so plainly and unadultered now, but I'm not sure that the majority of the readers of the article would have come away with that as a clear conclusion from reading these articles. I'd remind you of the closing paragraph summarising the story;

4th Aug article wrote:It is the story of a proponent of democracy making a bold, unlikely-to-succeed attempt at reforming his region via legislative means, who screwed up badly along the way. His first mistake was proposing a militaristic contingency plan. His second mistake was putting so much trust into an opportunist. He was not, however, a prospective couper.


Hmmm... I dunno, but it feels like the tone has changed a fair bit...
Last edited by North East Somerset on Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 7 times in total.
NES: Beast of Balder

King of Balder
Lord High Steward in The LKE
Director of the Europeian Intelligence Agency

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1020
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:05 pm

North East Somerset wrote:Well that all appears very reasonable on the face of it, I'm just not sure your readers are drawing all the wise and sensible conclusions that you seemingly have, from these articles.

You claim that (pertinent point bolded):

Bormiar wrote:As such, the articles portrays Adriatican as what he was -- a in-over-his-head, hyperbolic zealot -- when I speculated that he was Popular Front for United Balder (suggested to me by NES). I only actually brought up Adriatican's thoughts on the matter because Griffindor accused the Crown of blackmail or similar during his trial and using that quote as evidence. I said that Adriatican may have been exaggerating, which is essentially code for "Don't take this at face value!". I don't think anyone who read my article believed Adriatican. His claim was too obviously exaggerated.


But yet a distinguished member of TRR, and Senior Correspondant of The Rejected Times, the Church of Satan, appears to have absolutely taken Adriatican's points at face value here; https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=37546804#p37546804 Presumably if anyone could read through your "essentially code" style writing, a Senior Correspondant of this actual paper would be able to, yet he took it for fact.


Speaking for myself here, there are a lot of people here who will always hate you, who will always assume the absolute worse, who you shouldn't be trying to impress.

Regardless, I don't see where CoS said that you blackmailed Adriatican not to testify (pertinent point bolded):

The Church of Satan wrote:If I recall correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) military action was a last resort option. He specifically stated he was first attempting to make change legally. To work within the system. Then of course opportunity came knocking. The information was leaked and the two ruling elite of Balder saw fit to (in their "benevolence") pardon the ones willing to go back to being professional suck-ups and yes men while the one of the three that actually was charged decided that groveling to NES and Onder in order to avoid punishment was too much of an indignity. Especially when it would have meant that nothing would change anyways. His career in Balder was most assuredly dead at that point either way because it had then been known that he was adamantly opposed to keeping the ineffective and inefficient system in place. For Bowzin it was a lose-lose situation. They didn't prevent a coup. They got rid of someone that actually wanted to help the region at the expense of the very people that have had their hands around its neck for so long.


I get that CoS is taking the worst interpretation of immunity. But it's true that you "pardoned" 3/4, and the other one decided that they didn't want that. Obviously, Griffindor being charged was not because he decided not to suck up, but that's CoS' exaggeration-- not an opinion given by TRT. What are you specifically referring to which says you blackmailed them not to testify? Until you point it out, I don't see anyone taking Adriatican's comments at face value.

North East Somerset wrote:
Bormiar wrote:They're both guilty. The Heimdall article shows Griffindor clearly planning a military coup, lying, and not refuting all of the defense's (prosecution's) evidence. Frankly, I think he's guilty of both treason and espionage, and I thought that was an obvious conclusion.


Again, yes this is objectively true, and its nice to see you state this so plainly and unadultered now, but I'm not sure that the majority of the readers of the article would have come away with that as a clear conclusion from reading these articles. I'd remind you of the closing paragraph summarising the story;

4th Aug article wrote:It is the story of a proponent of democracy making a bold, unlikely-to-succeed attempt at reforming his region via legislative means, who screwed up badly along the way. His first mistake was proposing a militaristic contingency plan. His second mistake was putting so much trust into an opportunist. He was not, however, a prospective couper.


Hmmm... I dunno, but it feels like the tone has changed a fair bit...


I don't think so. It was a silly goal, but he was looking for 'reform'. The defense recognized this and addressed it:

The simultaneous existence of lawful activities on the Heimdall server and in the conspirators' Discord DMs does not excuse the presence of unlawful activities alongside them. Obviously part of what was discussed between the plaintiff and his co-conspirators was lawful. The plaintiff points Your Lordship to those legal activities. The plaintiff and his co-conspirators discussed legal reforms to the government of Balder. However, as is proved beyond doubt by Defense Exhibit 1, the discussions involving the plaintiff were not confined to activities solely within the legal and constitutional framework of Balder. In addition to discussing legal reforms, the plaintiff also planned to secure control of the delegacy.


As for "shows Griffindor clearly planning a military coup"-- "planning" is a poor word choice. I showed him mentioning "securing the delegacy", which could be reasonably seen as coup thoughts. I also showed his obsession with the idea of legislative reform (i.e. odelsting), the true purpose of the Operation Heimdall server, and his idea that he could make the Lagting less powerful. He was never going to overthrow Balder's government and there's no evidence that he thought he could. He got excited and-- who the hell knows? He thought he could get elected delegate? He thought he could kick you guys out? He thought about a coup (definitely a good possibility)? His comment to Bowzin wasn't sane planning. His comment was the ravings of an over-excited conspirator. With the worst interpretation of "[securing] the delegacy", couping (which I'd be ready to accept), he strayed from his general direction in the same way an excited puppy would.

He was guilty of exactly what you charged him for: lying and having coup thoughts. I shouldn't have called that "planning". It does make him dangerous and liable for treason charges though, because he likely would've couped if given the opportunity. But nothing proves -- or even suggests -- he was "planning" that opportunity or that he was a prospective (prospective means that he was conspiring/expecting it to happen) couper.

You may have mentioned the idea of couping a region to someone else. It makes you dangerous to the region, but it doesn't make you a "prospective couper" (someone who conspired a coup).

Frankly, I don't know why you're trying to say that Griffindor was planning to coup. Judging by our mutual understanding of "securing the delegacy", he had coup thoughts. That's definitely enough to kick him out of the region. But it's not a plan.

Edit: you should've assumed I meant "planning" and taken that as a victory. Accusing me of contradicting myself was just gloating about how much TRT sucks and allowed me to clarify my position. Bad tactics.
Last edited by Bormiar on Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1312
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:01 pm

I'm curious as to why you even care what I think about Balder, NES. After all I'm a veteran citizen of TRR and veteran journalist of TRT (the latter of which Balder appears to dislike even more than its defender "enemy.") Balder has long maintained an opposition to and dislike of TRR as well as towards its prominent members. Why should you of all people, NES whom has helped maintain a "cold war" status towards TRR and anything based in TRR (including TRT) be concerned about what one such as me might think about the region? I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to think Balder has or ever would reconsider its stance towards TRR or TRT. :P
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Agalaesia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Sep 23, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Agalaesia » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:51 am

Image

Sign up for The Rejected Times' Subscription Service here.


Image


Issue LX | September 2020


Editor-in-Chief Agalaesia
Deputy Editor-in-Chief: N-Vince


Index

Image


Thalassia Analyisis: Sho Got Lucky This Time

OPINION | WRITTEN BY Agalaesia | EDITED BY The Church of Satan


Just mere months after becoming a constitutional monarchy, the founder (Sho) announced that the Thalassian constitution would be overturned by a council of players appointed by the founder, as it strove to draft a more permanent constitution.

Before I embark upon this article, I would like to state the following: this article is not about the benefits of democracy versus meritocracy, or the merits of its interim constitution. This article is about how founders should be more cautious when exercising their powers in a democracy, especially as players may become disgruntled and quit the region if and when they see their founder radically change things in a way they didn’t agree to.

Firstly, mechanical founder supremacy is something that no-one can dispute. Founders, ultimately, hold the power in the User Created Region, and no-one can do anything about it, unless there is some major mechanical change to the game. This means that they can technically do anything with their region, and no-one can stop them. This is a huge benefit for regional security, as founders can ensure that their region is kept safe, however, if a founder takes an action that people who reside were not prepared for and do not like, then the motives of the founder wouldn’t be aligned with the motives of the residents.

The population of the region and what impact your actions will have on the overall population and residents. If residents dislike the actions of the founders, or the fact that they aren’t bound by the law, they will simply pack their bags and leave. This was particularly notable in Thalassia’s early incarnation, Pacifica, which was founded by Topid. The residents didn’t like Topid’s unpredictability, so therefore they just packed their bags and refounded into Thalassia. [EDITOR'S NOTE: TRT staff were later notified that this wasn't entirely accurate, and that there were many other problems with Topid's foundership, not necessarily limited to the problems outlined above.]

The people who join a region expect to participate in what is on the can without any unexpected major changes that could change the region entirely - the player joins for regional continuity and certainty, even if that contains elements of instability (such as political debates, frequent change in leadership etc.). To put it simply, a new player joins a region for its niche. If a new player joins a region that prides itself on being meritocratic, then the user will expect that region not to turn into a democracy, unless a lot of discussion goes into it first, and the leaders determine that it is what the players want. Likewise, the repealing of a constitution without any notice given to the citizenship is a bad look, both for stability and for the predictability of the government. It effectively plays a part in destroying Thalassia’s niche - it seemed to pride itself in democracy, however, the likely unconstitutional repeal of the constitution suggests that it isn’t as democratic as it once made itself out to be (at one point, it’s WFE stated that “We're a seafaring bastion of liberty, democracy, and solidarity”).

Major regional changes and the destruction of niches without notice can also destroy certain foreign affairs relationships. When I asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the South Pacific, Qvait, about the situation in Thalassia, he said:

“Yes, I would say that the situation in Thalassia is concerning to say the least. Thalassia is a region with which we share embassies and ambassadors with, so what's happening there will be observed by the South Pacific. One issue I noticed in all of this is that the dispatch containing the original constitution was deleted by the founder nation account. We'll be monitoring the situation and watching closely to see what comes out of it.”

When I asked him what he hoped would happen with Thalassia, he stated the following:

“Well, I hope that Thalassia will have a democratic, inclusive government — one that is stable and trustworthy. We'll see.”

Although some may not agree with him on the advocacy for democracy, it is clear from his comments that the South Pacific was taken aback by these events. If a region behaves unpredictably, other regions won’t know what they’re aligned with, and therefore they will close embassies with the region. If one wants to build long term foreign affairs relations, one has to remain consistent, and ensure other regions that they will remain consistent. Although this is largely the rule, other regions seem to support Thalassia in the hope that it will become more stable in the future. When I asked Qvait’s Former Lazarene counterpart, the Director of Foreign Affairs at the time of writing this article, Ryccia - about his thoughts on the Thalassian situation, he stated:

“As I have said to our allies in private, Lazarus has offered its support and legal recognition to the Interim Council. Lazarus recognizes the Interim Council as the official transitional government of Thalassia, and thus hopes that Thalassia's regional reorganization proceeds without any major negative issues and proves beneficial for their community. We hope these efforts bear fruit so Thalassia can prosper under a new Constitution.

We stand by our allies in their efforts of regional reorganization so that the issues that concern them (mainly, by their own admission, inactivity) may be resolved. It is our hope that they are successful in the task they have embarked upon so their community may prosper.”

Thalassia still has a lot of promise in the gameplaying and roleplaying world, however, the founder must be anticipatory and ensure that the regional political system remains stable so that it retains both players and alliances. Although the founder does hold mechanical powers, politically, founder supremacy is by no means sacrosanct. The actions of the founder directly impact foreign relations, and the satisfaction of their residents. The Thalassian founder must learn to be more calculable to avoid a mass exodus from their region.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Three members of the Interim Council (Sho, Wymondham and Arenado) were contacted to comment on the Thalassian re-organization. All of them declined to comment. All Thalassian citizens contacted either didn't respond or declined to comment.]

Image


The Great NationStates Flag Contest

FEATURE | WRITTEN BY The Church of Satan | EDITED BY Vincey


Right under the nose of countless people a vast flag contest has been on-going since May 1, tucked away in Forum 7. Hosted by The Cosmic Mainframe, the NationStates Flag Bracket II started at 128 flags submitted by 49 players. The Cosmic Mainframe had previously hosted another flag contest on February 25th. The difference this time is that the contest has nearly double the number of flags submitted and an additional 19 participants. I however had not been aware of the contest until May 4th, just three days into the competition when The Cosmic Mainframe posted on The East Pacific’s RMB inquiring about who had made their region’s flag. Subsequently he was directed to me and had sent a telegram to most courteously ask if I was okay with one of their participants, Newark Aristocracy submitting The East Pacific’s flag into the contest. At this point not only was I fine with it and content to leave the prize to Newark Aristocracy if he had won with my design but I was also excited about such a large contest. I have been following it ever since. So, I decided to inquire about the competition myself, with a few questions to The Cosmic Mainframe:

CoS: What gave you the idea to start it at all?

The Cosmic Mainframe: At the time I started the first bracket I was really into Forum 7, and I made it a policy to post on every page of the "Two Nations Above You: Which one has the better flag?" thread. That thread was the closest analogue to my flag bracket. Then there was a discussion in the RMB of the Pacific in which a few people were casually debating whose flag was better, and I made a remark that was something along the lines of "there should be a flag competition, so we can settle it objectively!" The more I thought about it, the more I thought it'd actually be a great idea, albeit for Forum 7.

CoS: How large was the first bracket?

The Cosmic Mainframe: On day one I received 56 flags. Since there were some free spots, and I didn't like to turn people down, I let a few people sign up late, and two days in, the bracket had 64 flags, or half the size of the current bracket. I was actually fortunate enough to get the thread archived, if anyone is interested: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=481322

CoS: What have been your favourite flags so far?

The Cosmic Mainframe: In the first bracket, I considered Valentine Z to be the strongest submitter, particularly between his beautiful animated flag and the one he made for Victoriaans Nederlands. He's got some great flags this time around also, and Alanis Star's flag is a particular standout. This time, I'm really liking the flags that Paradeavenlisian States have submitted, particularly Esceanian Union's flag. I also really like The Albali Republic's flags, particularly The Albalian Kingdom's flag.

CoS: Worst flags so far?

The Cosmic Mainframe: This question is difficult to answer because I don't want to throw shade at people online. But I'll answer anyway: there have been submitters in both iterations of the bracket who submitted images which were not really flags. My policy in those cases has been that you can submit those if you want, but don't expect to win. And, well, they didn't win.

At the same time, I found one of the participants to vote after a very in-depth analysis of each submission. So, I asked Paradeavenlisian States to walk us through their process.

Paradeavenlisian States: “Well, this isn't the first time that I've used this sort of category before there are 5 categories that I consider when analysing flags. They are simplicity, originality, colour scheme, design and realism.

For simplicity, I analyse how easy it would be for, say, a 7-year-old child to draw the features of both flags. However, if the features of both flags are, as a whole, equally easy for a child of that age to draw, then I would have to consider simply how much the flag has going on in terms of the number of colours, features, symbols and, sometimes, the presence of certain effects on some flags. The harder it is for a child to draw and/or the more the number of aspects, the more complicated it is and vice versa.

For the second category, originality, I would analyse the amount of, and extent of, similarities that the two flags share with their real-world counterparts through the colours, features and composition. The more similarities and links there are with (a) real world flag(s), the less original they are and vice versa.

For the third category, the colour scheme which is a bit of a broad one, I would pretty much analyse the appeal, weight, strikeness, memorability, implementation, aesthetic, meaning and, sometimes, even the character that the colours bring as well as how well they fit together, with the nation they represent and with the design.

Speaking of which, the fourth and, perhaps, the broadest category, the design, I would consider the same aspects as the colour scheme with a few additional aspects such as the composition, cleanness, crispness, symbolism and incorporation.

And for the last category, realism, I would analyse it by considering how well the two flags would fit as a real-world flag. Generally, I would consider the cleanness and crispness of the design for any flag.

Other than that, the aspects required to determine which is more plausible, would have to depend since it might not be fair for certain flags if we were to consider the exact same aspects. For traditionalist flags (i.e. those that evoke a sense of traditionalism, tribalism or historicity), I would consider how much detail they have in their symbols, how that detail is incorporated, how symbol-oriented the design is (depending on the precise aesthetic that the flags give off) and how the sense of traditionalism is evoked through their use of symbolism. For FT flags (those that evoke a sense of technological advancement, a space aesthetic or just anything that evokes a futuristic sort of aesthetic), I would try and consider the layout, the simplicity (especially the symbols), and just how well they evoke the sense of futurism or progressivism. For a FanT flag (those that, or their nations, evoke a sense of fantasy), this would be a little more difficult to consider, although I would likely consider similar aspects to a MT flag (modern tech) for most cases even though it could well depend on the flag itself. If neither of these aspects draw out a conclusion to which is more realistic, then I'd consider how well they would work for a nation of a similar aesthetic or lore to that of the nation that the flags represent.
Then, there is the verdict which takes into account all of the above categories. If it is a three-way match, then I'd consider which one ranks first in the most categories. If that doesn't work, which can often happen in these sorts of matches, then I'd consider which flag, on average, scores the highest ranking amongst all five categories as a whole which I'd do the same for the remaining two.

So, yeah, those are the five categories that I tend to consider and how I would go about approaching, analysing and determining them. However, I may or may not be considering changing how I analyse them by adding some other categories and, perhaps, replacing the design category (since it seems to be the broader of the five categories) with others such as appeal, memorability, meaning, composition and symbolism.”

And lastly, some words on the contest so far from Paradeavenlisian States:

“Well, so far, it has been quite a competitive and, in some cases, unpredictable flag bracket, arguably even more so than the first through the emergence of hugely talented users and their gorgeous, sometimes extremely meaningful, flags. And through such competitiveness has come many surprises with many flags either reaching further or eliminated sooner than many of us had anticipated at the start through fortune or misfortune. Personally, I'm hoping that these series of flag brackets do continue to gain more popularity and awareness amongst the NS community (especially those who are passionate about their flag-making skills) to help inspire them to truly tap into their imaginations delve deep into their inner flag talents that they possess and bring out their creativity. I'm feeling especially optimistic that, if there is a 3rd Nationstates Flag Bracket (or even more), more NS users do have the passion to create more enticing, unique flags, as has already been shown in the 1st and, currently ongoing, 2nd Nationstates Flag Bracket.”

I’d like to thank The Cosmic Mainframe and Paradeavenlisian States for their time as well as their insight on the contest. It is currently in the second match of its top 8, with the conclusion not far off. I’m hoping there will be a third NationStates Flag Bracket. There’s a lot of flags out there and more being made all the time. I’m sure there’s enough flags for at least one more contest. Maybe a third one would have even more participants! For those interested, you can find the current NationStates Flag Bracket here.

Image



A Democracy or Not? Thalassia's New Constitution

OPINION | WRITTEN BY Toerana | EDITED BY Agalaesia


Thalassia, a self described bastion of democracy recently went through a radical change in government. The region’s constitution, the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thalassia, was abolished by the Interim Council, a previously unknown organisation within Thalassia originally consisting of just three members: the founder, Sho (also known as Mars), alongside Arenado, the former Prime Minister, and Wymondham, who is a Vizier in Osiris.

Despite the constitution, which has since been deleted by the Founder, not permitting any entity to single handedly abolish the constitution, and the region’s government by extent, it was done and an “Interim Constitution” was put in place.

This, to an external observer, should have been the first red flag about events in Thalassia. Instead of working on a new constitution, or amending the current one, while the democratically elected government was still in office, the Founder chose to abolish the entire system, before having a replacement ready to be proposed; they instead chose to waste time writing an interim constitution, which gave them absolute power over the region.

The constitution, which was proposed over a week after the government takeover, was written by the now expanded Interim council, which consists of seven members, including the Prime Minister of the overthrown government, despite the fact the government was overthrown for inactivity.

A Review of the Proposed Thalassian Constitution

All references can be found at the end of the article.

Article I

Article I covers the rights of citizens and residents.

A key change from the previous constitution is that citizens now have to be approved by the “relevant authorities.”[1] However, despite the introduction of a forum and an offsite forum, and a citizenship application that would likely be conducted on the forum, a citizen is still required to hold World Assembly Membership in the region to vote.

(More details on the voting process can be found in Article VI)

Article II

Article II covers the Monarch, the Founder and their powers.

They will head the “Curia Regis,” which has a shocking resemblance to Interim Council, as it will consist of no less than 3 members, exactly like the Interim Council, with the founder having the ability to add more.

The Founder also has the ability to declare someone “Persona Non Grata,” effectively banning them from the region.[3] The clause does not include any restrictions on the power, allowing them to ban anyone from the region, for any reason.

Article III

Article III covers the Curia Regis.

What is most worrying about this article is it legalises and makes permanent a system of elitism that ensures a select few - the Founder and their friends - can keep a monopoly on power in the region. This is especially true as any constitutional amendment requires the support of not only the new regional legislature, but two thirds of the Curia Regis[4] as well.

This will make it near impossible to amend the constitution in a way that may remove power from this unelected council, as it would be near impossible to get two thirds of the council to agree to dissolve their positions. Despite this, the Constitution does allow for the Regional Assembly to overrule the Curia Regis with a 3/4ths majority, making it impossible to do so without unanimous agreement if the Regional Assembly is at its minimum size of 3 members.

Recent actions of the Founder show us that she will prioritise what she thinks is right for the region, instead of respecting the democratic process that is already in place. There is nothing preventing her from appointing and removing members of her council at her will, with the exception of the constitutionally[2] mandated positions, making it impossible for anyone to seriously disagree with the founder without risking their position and political power.

Article IV

Article IV is the article that outlines the position of World Assembly Delegate, the only position in government that is directly elected by the citizenry of Thalassia. It is close to the original position in its makeup, making some question whether the previous constitution was abolished due to an inactivity plague, or whether as a power grab by the Thalassian founder.

Article V

Article V outlines the Regional Assembly, the region’s elected legislature. An elected legislature works incredibly well in real life, where there is a very large voter base which makes it incredibly impractical to have the citizenry vote on each individual bill. However, when scaled down for NationStates, it is simply a tool to strip citizens of their direct say and breed a culture of political apathy as day to day citizens do not have to take an interest in regional legislature, as they will likely never get a chance to vote on the legislature.

The article allows for a simple majority to drastically downsize the size of the legislature to only three people[5], making it significantly easier for a tiny percentage of the region to have complete control over its legislative future, requiring they have the agreement of the Curia Regis, Thalassia’s elites.

The Legislature elects its own speaker, the Chancellor, however to remove a speaker, it requires unanimous agreement between all members of the Legislature. The Chancellor can be removed, but it requires a 3/4ths majority[6], once again letting a single person veto the Chancellor’s removal if the Assembly is at its minimum size.

Article VI

Article VI, the final meaningful article in the constitution outlines the procedure for elections. One notable aspect, which could be argued as an improvement is the addition of secret ballots in citizen referendums. However, since citizen referendums are non binding, it makes the citizen’s vote effectively an opinion poll, meaningless. The only other ability the citizenry has in terms of elections is to vote for the regional assembly.

These non binding referendums are incredibly hard to start[7], requiring a petition to have 25 citizen signatures within 7 days for it to be moved to a vote. That is 12% of the region’s current population. For comparison, if the same percentage of the regional population was required for a petition in the Rejected Realms, it would require the signature of 550 citizens, nearly five times the number of citizens the region has.

Articles VII & VIII cover Out of Character Administration and Constitutional amendments.


Overall, the new Thalassian Constitution strips residents of Thalassia of their right to vote, requiring them to be approved by a currently unidentified body. This takes residents out of the day to day running of Thalassia, making further changes that downgrade Thalassian democracy significantly easier.

We can only wait to see whether the Thalassians will approve of this new change, or whether they will be lured into a sense of false security by an endless number of government endorsements.

[list=1][*]Article I - “2. A Citizen of Thalassia shall be defined as an individual who has filled out an appropriate citizenship application which has been approved by the relevant authorities.”
[*]Article V - “16. The Chancellor shall be required to serve as a member of the Curia Regis.”
Article IV - “8. The WA Delegate shall serve as a member of the Curia Regis.”
Small footnote: The Chancellor is required to serve as a member of the Curia Regis, while it appears the WA delegate is not required to serve as a member. This could be a simple mistake or inconsistency in the proposal, or it could be an intended feature as the Founder is the sole legal authority on the constitution’s interpretation.
[*]Article II - “12. The Monarch may declare a non-citizen Persona Non Grata in the region.”
[*]Article IX - “1. Amendments to this constitution shall require a 2/3s majority vote of both the Curia Regis and the Regional Assembly to pass.”
[*]Article V - “2. The Regional Assembly shall initially comprise of 7 Members of the Regional Assembly, however, the assembly may alter this number, by a 2/3s majority vote, to no less than 3 and no more 11 members.”
[*]Article V - “17. The Chancellor may be removed from the Chancellory by a 3/4s majority vote from the Regional Assembly. The Chancellor may not vote on their own removal from office.”
[*]Article VI - “14. Petitions for referendums must have 25 citizen signatures within 7 days from the public announcement of the petition to be accepted.”
Article VI - “12. With the exception of referendums relating to Article II Section 14, all referendums will be non-binding.”


Image


An Interview with FiHami, The South Pacific's Ministry of Military Affairs

INTERVIEW | WRITTEN BY Kraljevstvo Rata


I sat down with FiHami, Minister of Military Affairs for The South Pacific for an interview. Here’s how it went.

Q: Alright, Phoe. Ready? Here's the first question: When did you first join NS?

A: I first joined NS in May 2019!

Q: How do you view your last year on the platform?

A: I have had a ton of fun! At the beginning, I was definitely not expecting to get involved in TSP government, I was just into roleplay, but then I did Chair of Assembly and now I'm Minister of Military Affairs lol. I met so many amazing people on this site, I look back and I'm continually astounded at how much there is to this game and how awesome everyone I've talked to is.

Q: Speaking of being Minister of Military Affairs, what do you consider your biggest accomplishment so far?

A: I don't really think I've accomplished too much yet as MoMA. But our current active numbers are amazing to see and I'm proud of how enthusiastic they are.

Q: Alright. What about the raid on South Pacific? What are your thoughts?

A:I did my best to recruit and liberate for it, and we did get the numbers for it thanks to the East Pacific, so grateful for them! But the updatebending killed that effort. We did our best, and we will overcome that update bending as defenders, so future liberations with much higher stakes will see successes when that tactic is used against us. Overall, I'm grateful that the raiders didn't intend on completely destroying the region and just wanted to bonk defenders. And grateful to Panther for not getting annoyed with us.

Q: Wonderful. I won't hold you for much longer, just three more questions. Are there any things you would like to improve relating to the SPSF?

A: Ah you're good! :p
I do want to improve our organizational culture with the rest of my term, doing stuff together to really feel like more than just a military org, but a group of close-knit friends. And really help define our theme as a military that reflects TSP's culture and values.

Q: The last two questions are a bit more fun: Ice Cream, or Cake? (any other dessert is fine)

A: Well, I do have a preference for ice cream :p

Q: Last one: Does pineapple belong on pizza?

A: I'm allergic to pineapple :< but yes, a barbeque and pineapple with cheese on a pizza bread thing sounds amazing and I can vibe with it.

Me: Well, Phoe, Thanks for your time!

FiHami: Thank you for the interview! ^-^

Image


Recipe for Arroz con Frijoles (rice and beans):

CREATIVE | WRITTEN BY Kraljevstvo Rata



Hardware:
A Dutch Oven shaped pot. (if you don't have one, just use a stock pot)
A 3 quart saucepan.
Plates

Rice:
2 8oz teacups of long grain white rice. (236 ml)
2 1/4 cups (530ml) of water
Oil
A pinch of salt.

Beans:
1/2 can of red kidney beans
1 packet sazon (specifically Goya)
1 can tomato sauce (also goya)
Sliced Ham (optional)

Instructions:
1. Rinse rice until no starch is left. You'll notice the water getting less and less milky, which is the indicator for no starch.
2. Pour water into the dutch oven, and splash a little bit of oil into the pot. Add a pinch of salt, and turn the burner to HIGH.
3. Add rice into the pot, and let sit. When the water starts to evaporate, you'll see that small pockets start to form. Let the rice continue for another 15 seconds, then immediately cover the rice and set it to LOW, where it'll simmer. Be sure to move the rice, or it'll stick to the pot.

Now, for the beans:
1. Pour a small amount of oil into the saucepan. Set burner to HIGH.
2. Cook ham over the oil. (If you don't eat ham, skip this and go to step 3)
3. Pour the can of beans into the saucepan.
4. Pour sazon into the saucepan. Mix the beans and sazon (and ham, if that's what you want in the beans)
5. Add a small bit of water, just enough to cover the beans.
6. Add tomato sauce. Stir the beans until it starts to boil, then bring the burner to low.
7. Simmer until you're ready to serve.


After you're done, serve however you want to! Ta-da, you just made Kral's family-recipe rice and beans

Image


NOTE: The Rejected Times does not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Rejected Realms.


Discuss this Issue over on the NationStates forum here.

Find The Rejected Times Index here.
Last edited by Agalaesia on Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Agalaesia

EiC of EPNS, fmr. EiC of TRT | NSGE and Paradoxical Organiser | Outreach Officer of TRR | Co-Founder of Kaer Solas, also does a few other boring things

User avatar
Wymondham
Envoy
 
Posts: 202
Founded: Apr 03, 2017
Libertarian Police State

Postby Wymondham » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:12 am

Am kinda curious why Toerana named me as a "Vizier in Osiris" and not as the Minister of AA or former minister of Information, it seems an odd choice as the situation didn't involve Osiris in the slightest?

User avatar
Dead I Jack
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Sep 28, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Dead I Jack » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:49 am

Phoenix thinks pineapple goes on pizza? Ewwwww. Friendship over

User avatar
Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 896
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:05 am

TRT is probably the best newspaper in NS.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Put this in your sig if you passed biology and know that gender and sex are not the same thing.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Gameplay

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anatoliyanskiy, Eleutherosophia, Elfland, Inner New Miductan, Mechanikolia, Southeast Marajarbia, The Galactic American Imperium, The New North Republic, The Troas Sector, Tinhampton, Traden, Whitemore

Advertisement

Remove ads