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The Rejected Times: Issue LVIII

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The Rejected Realms Media Corporation
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Postby The Rejected Realms Media Corporation » Wed May 13, 2015 8:57 pm

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Tomb Resigns as TNP Delegate
Disagreements over transparency in the NPA
COMMENTARY | UNIBOT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF

In a very surprising turn of events, the newly re-elected delegate of the North Pacific has tendered his resignation. It’s not every day that a delegate, re-elected with 72% support in the same week, resigns, although unfortunately a similar circumstance (under different conditions) beleaguered McMasterdonia’s final term as delegate of the North Pacific when he was forced to resign shortly after taking office too – Tomb’s resignation, however, has been far more mysterious and dramatic – many questions still remain unanswered. Tomb spoke to citizens in a brief letter noting that he had ‘received a really disturbing telegram regarding all these recent incidents,’ and in light of the information he received, he felt compelled to resign as Delegate of the North Pacific – he also said he had no intention to disclose what this information entails, while citizens have speculated whether the telegram may have been an attempt at blackmailing Tomb, but this remains purely speculation and not confirmed.

Tomb refused to comment to the Rejected Times on the contents of this mysterious telegram, but he did speak cordially about his region – emphasising that he had no ill will towards his region; ‘The North Pacific has given me nothing but utmost respect as their delegate and citizen,’ he says, ‘and I have nothing to say other than that.’

This week has been a rough week for the re-electee; although being soundly re-elected, he did face controversy when Cascadia announced prematurely that he had been appointed as Culture Minister, despite the fact that the (popular) sitting Culture Minister, Lord Lore hadn't been told first that he would be shuffled to the Entertainment Ministry. The controversy with his new cabinet appointments continued when Tomb also chose not to reappoint Eluvatar as Minister of Defense in favour of Gladio – this aroused a lot of controversy especially because the North Pacific’s success in the Lazarus mission was attributed to Eluvatar’s hard work there; indeed, Tomb had singled out the North Pacific’s defense of Lazarus as ‘something to be proud of’ in his own election campaign.

It’s possible that Eluvatar’s non-appointment may have to do with an ongoing disagreement internally over military policy and transparency. Flemingovia, a long time citizen and recently a critic of the North Pacific Army’s invading abroad, brought a proposal to the Regional Assembly arguing that ‘unless regional security demands secrecy’ that the Regional Assembly ought to be legally informed of an operation abroad – while Eluvatar was supportive of the measure, Tomb and Gladio were very much against (the latter calling it a 'terrible idea') – this became an even more polarising issue shortly later when only two days afterwards, the North Pacific Army invaded Atlantic alongside the South Pacific Special Forces. A legal question for review has been brought to the attention of the Courts which argues that NPA Policy (which dictates the Assembly shall only be informed of missions after they are completed) contradicts the need for the Assembly to know, given that the Assembly possesses an override mechanism for missions (an override which is useless if people don’t know about it until the mission is complete).

At the present moment, a discussion regarding the possibility of the override against the Atlantic mission is ongoing, but unlikely to succeed or even go to vote before the operation ends.

Things became even more uncomfortable for Tomb's administration, however, when Flemingovia had applied to join the North Pacific Army and his application was rejected; according to Flemingovia, during this application he had apparently been told publicly by the deputy Minister (now Minister) of Defense, Gladio, that he was not trusted and may be removed for ‘inactivity’, while Eluvatar, he notes, personally supported his application, he also says that Eluvatar relayed Tomb’s ultimatum to him: drop the ‘satirical posts’ and criticism of the North Pacific Army or his application would be rejected. Flemingovia turned down those conditions and his application was rejected; he has now brought this issue to the courts, arguing that a gag rule on criticism for new applicants violates the Bill of Rights and its Freedom of Expression. Cormac Stark would later attempt to pursue a recall of Tomb, citing the Flemingovia incident, along with other recent issues with his administration.

Ultimately, it’s currently impossible to say what it is exactly that has prompted Tomb’s resignation, but certainly it is possible that this trouble over defense may have played a role. Within the past few hours before his resignation, we’ve learnt he has replaced a popular Minister, putting in place a more invader-friendly one, while trying unsuccessfully to silence another citizen’s criticism of the North Pacific Army and its increasingly aggressive approach abroad. Indeed, in many ways, I think this is an issue that has been brewing since r3naissanc3r’s administration, let alone Tomb; from Scotland to Fandom Alliance, the Rejected Times has been covering civil unrest with the North Pacific Army’s conduct abroad for well over a year now – indeed, the appointment of Eluvatar (a more defender-leaning General) by Tomb had originally signaled a change of tune for the raid-heavy army when during his original campaign for delegate, Tomb had called to ‘increase our participation in more defensive missions and operations’ – but these recent actions by his administration have signaled an about-face and a retreat on a problem which will only continue to grow without a change in the culture from ‘the top’, so to speak. I would have to expect that military policy will be squarely one of the more pressing issues for the upcoming special election to decide the North Pacific’s new delegate.

Generally speaking, I think the North Pacific is moving towards a crossroads where it has to find a new ‘centre’ (the new ‘reasonable’) – because the old independent compromise (‘raid a lot, defend a bit, justify the imbalance as in our interests’) isn’t holding water anymore and hasn't for many citizens in the North Pacific who are looking for a military which broadly represents them – this may be a debate that was left over from the ambiguity of the NPA Act (a compromise bill which passed the debate over the NPA’s ideology to future generations), or it may be a sign that a new compromise akin to the NPA Act might be necessary to resolve current tensions in the North Pacific as the NPA Act had at least in the short term for tensions then – perhaps a new transparency policy, or a discussion on the application process? Who knows what might come up in the upcoming special election…

The Vice Delegate, SillyString (also known as Astarial), has succeeded Tomb legally as sitting delegate and will look after the region in the interim period; meanwhile special elections have yet to officially begin. The Legal Code had historically required a special election begin ‘within two days after [a] vacancy is noticed’ – as far as this legal eye can see, no such requirement exists anymore, so it may just be up to the ‘law gods’ as to whether a special election should begin immediately or whether a couple of days may be allowed, but once a special election begins, the law is fairly clear in stating that there can only be five days allowed for nominations and campaigning. A short space of time for a region still reeling in shock of recent events. A landslide victory now an avalanche.

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Last edited by The Rejected Realms Media Corporation on Wed May 13, 2015 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zacherie
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Corporate Police State

Postby Zacherie » Wed May 13, 2015 9:04 pm

I don't think TNP's military stance is in question. They can defend a bit raid a lot if they like, if it is in their best interests. The crossroads they are at is how they are going to move forward with who, how, and when they are going to fill their offices once more.

I eagerly await a TNP statement on the matter.
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Zombie Venico
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Postby Zombie Venico » Wed May 13, 2015 10:00 pm

No shit Elu and Flem would support a measure of declaring missions before hand. It's an inherently defender proposal. A defense/liberation while sometimes benefits from stealth most of the time doesn't use it or need it. Hell they're going out and asking as many people as possible for help. On the other hand, a raid is always about stealth/secrecy. Making the NPA propose an attack plan every time they want to raid would absolutely cripple its offensive capabilities...and they know that. It's why they support it.

Either way, I hope Tomb is ok and I wish my best to TNP. I hope you guys get a sound and reasonable delegate out of this and that your delegacy remains stable for awhile.

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Great Brigantia
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Postby Great Brigantia » Wed May 13, 2015 11:00 pm

There are so many appalling inaccuracies in this article that it's mind boggling, and I've no intention of addressing them all. I do have a couple of points though:

1. The recent controversy has nothing -- I repeat: nothing -- whatsoever to do with military alignment. The military alignment of The North Pacific is independent and that is not remotely in question. The recent controversy has to do with transparency, oversight, free speech, and equal treatment. It has nothing at all to do with petty raider-defender squabbles, with raiders and defenders coming down on both sides of these issues. It's remarkable how Unibot is still, after all this time, unable to think outside his neat raider-defender box or recognize that others may do so.

2. The really remarkable thing, though, is just how much the Delegate of The Rejected Realms knows about what is going on in the private forum of the Regional Assembly of The North Pacific. On the other hand, this is hardly the first time that Unibot has used espionage in The North Pacific to advance his ideological crusade. It is, however, the first time that we know of that he's done it as Delegate of The Rejected Realms and not merely the dictator of the UDL. Do the citizens of The Rejected Realms support their Delegate engaging in espionage against The North Pacific?

Zombie Venico wrote:No shit Elu and Flem would support a measure of declaring missions before hand. It's an inherently defender proposal. A defense/liberation while sometimes benefits from stealth most of the time doesn't use it or need it. Hell they're going out and asking as many people as possible for help. On the other hand, a raid is always about stealth/secrecy. Making the NPA propose an attack plan every time they want to raid would absolutely cripple its offensive capabilities...and they know that. It's why they support it.

This is not the proposal under debate, for the record. The proposal under debate is to inform the Regional Assembly of ongoing operations, not to give advance notice of operations. So, if the NPA raids and occupies a region, they should inform the Regional Assembly immediately after the region has been raided rather than upon conclusion of the occupation. Nobody is asking the NPA to inform the Regional Assembly in advance of operations.
Cormac

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Guy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Guy » Thu May 14, 2015 12:14 am

Great Brigantia wrote:There are so many appalling inaccuracies in this article that it's mind boggling, and I've no intention of addressing them all. I do have a couple of points though:

1. The recent controversy has nothing -- I repeat: nothing -- whatsoever to do with military alignment. The military alignment of The North Pacific is independent and that is not remotely in question. The recent controversy has to do with transparency, oversight, free speech, and equal treatment. It has nothing at all to do with petty raider-defender squabbles, with raiders and defenders coming down on both sides of these issues. It's remarkable how Unibot is still, after all this time, unable to think outside his neat raider-defender box or recognize that others may do so.

I don't usually comment on the affairs of foreign regions, and I don't nearly know anything about the internal affairs in TNP (beyond a quick glance at the forum when I first heard of this) to comment on that controversy, I'm not sure that Tomb's resignation has to do with it in the first place. It's very speculative to say that it is, and especially to present it as the only option that's really canvassed and discussed.

Great Brigantia wrote:2. The really remarkable thing, though, is just how much the Delegate of The Rejected Realms knows about what is going on in the private forum of the Regional Assembly of The North Pacific. On the other hand, this is hardly the first time that Unibot has used espionage in The North Pacific to advance his ideological crusade. It is, however, the first time that we know of that he's done it as Delegate of The Rejected Realms and not merely the dictator of the UDL. Do the citizens of The Rejected Realms support their Delegate engaging in espionage against The North Pacific?

To be fair, I could see most of what had been discussed in the article on TNP's forum, and I'm not a citizen. I think only the reason for the resignation was in a private board, but it had been discussed extensively by other persons, in the public sphere, that it's fair for the Times to report on it. While clarifying that may have been best, it's not really a matter of espionage.
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Great Brigantia
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Postby Great Brigantia » Thu May 14, 2015 12:19 am

Guy wrote:To be fair, I could see most of what had been discussed in the article on TNP's forum, and I'm not a citizen. I think only the reason for the resignation was in a private board, but it had been discussed extensively by other persons, in the public sphere, that it's fair for the Times to report on it. While clarifying that may have been best, it's not really a matter of espionage.

There is at least one thing in the article that can be found exclusively in the Regional Assembly's private, citizens-only subforum. I can't go into more detail without risking running afoul of the law myself.
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The Rejected Realms Issue Committee
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Postby The Rejected Realms Issue Committee » Thu May 14, 2015 4:25 am

UPDATE: Special Elections for the North Pacific's new delegate have begun; SillyString is serving as Election Commissioner and overseeing the election - nominations have now begun and will last for five days - voting begins on May 19 (a quick turnaround for sure!). As SillyString has noted, 'Any Citizen who has been a member for the last 15 days (since Apr 29 2015, 04:00 AM) is eligible to run for this office.'

So far, Eluvatar and Malvad have been nominated and have said they will make their decision shortly on whether to run, while The Grim Reaper and Gradea have also announced their candidacy.

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Arctriul
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Postby Arctriul » Thu May 14, 2015 4:44 am

The Rejected Realms Issue Committee wrote:UPDATE:Gradea have also announced their candidacy.


:rofl:

I'm...I'll just see myself out.

Best of luck to TNP and their dramas :p

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Canton Empire
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Postby Canton Empire » Thu May 14, 2015 6:27 am

Arctriul wrote:
The Rejected Realms Issue Committee wrote:UPDATE:Gradea have also announced their candidacy.


:rofl:

I'm...I'll just see myself out.

Best of luck to TNP and their dramas :p

this....this could make a sick soap opera :clap:
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Punk Daddy
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Postby Punk Daddy » Thu May 14, 2015 9:38 am

Generally speaking, I think the North Pacific is moving towards a crossroads where it has to find a new ‘centre’ (the new ‘reasonable’) – because the old independent compromise (‘raid a lot, defend a bit, justify the imbalance as in our interests’) isn’t holding water anymore and hasn't for many citizens in the North Pacific who are looking for a military which broadly represents them


This is patently false and not relevant to the conversation at hand.

Others have stated similarly. Poor journalism to bring this in the discussion.
The man, the myth, the legend.

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Zenya
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Postby Zenya » Thu May 14, 2015 10:38 am

Sad to hear.
Best wishes to TNP.
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Trick Shot
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Postby Trick Shot » Thu May 14, 2015 11:30 am

Arctriul wrote:
The Rejected Realms Issue Committee wrote:UPDATE:Gradea have also announced their candidacy.


:rofl:

I'm...I'll just see myself out.

It is rare I agree with Rifty, but uh...no...just no.

I wish The North Pacific the best of luck and, for the record, I look forward to continued relations with the NPA.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Re: The Rejected Times: Tomb Resigns as TNP Delegate

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Thu May 14, 2015 1:47 pm

1. TSP wishes TNP the best in figuring out the succession of a new Delegate. We'll be there in any capacity we can if requested.

2. Can we stop calling "espionage" every time Unibot writes something? That goes along with the dumb old "TRR Delegate Unibot" trope.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Thu May 14, 2015 1:50 pm

Trick Shot wrote:
Arctriul wrote:
:rofl:

I'm...I'll just see myself out.

It is rare I agree with Rifty, but uh...no...just no.

I wish The North Pacific the best of luck and, for the record, I look forward to continued relations with the NPA.


I, for one, welcome our new Gradea overlords.
For the benefit of all humankind

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Great Brigantia
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Postby Great Brigantia » Thu May 14, 2015 1:59 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:2. Can we stop calling "espionage" every time Unibot writes something? That goes along with the dumb old "TRR Delegate Unibot" trope.

On which other occasions has someone called espionage when Unibot has written anything? As far as I know, the last time he was accused of espionage was in 2013 when a UDL Lieutenant, y'know, committed espionage and Unibot attempted to use it to the UDL's political and military benefit.

Do you have another word for the Delegate of a foreign region soliciting secret information from the private subforum of the Regional Assembly of The North Pacific, then publishing it?
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Old Hope
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Postby Old Hope » Thu May 14, 2015 2:22 pm

Great Brigantia wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:2. Can we stop calling "espionage" every time Unibot writes something? That goes along with the dumb old "TRR Delegate Unibot" trope.

On which other occasions has someone called espionage when Unibot has written anything? As far as I know, the last time he was accused of espionage was in 2013 when a UDL Lieutenant, y'know, committed espionage and Unibot attempted to use it to the UDL's political and military benefit.

Do you have another word for the Delegate of a foreign region soliciting secret information from the private subforum of the Regional Assembly of The North Pacific, then publishing it?

Actually...
Unibot is not only Delegate of TRR, but also head of the TRT. If someone leaked it to him in that capacity- well, you have a newspaper yourself, what would you have done?

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Great Brigantia
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Postby Great Brigantia » Thu May 14, 2015 2:25 pm

Old Hope wrote:Actually...
Unibot is not only Delegate of TRR, but also head of the TRT. If someone leaked it to him in that capacity- well, you have a newspaper yourself, what would you have done?

I wouldn't have published it, as I'm a citizen of The North Pacific and I prefer not to commit crimes there.

The Rejected Times is the official, state-run newspaper of The Rejected Realms, and Unibot is Delegate of The Rejected Realms. Any way you slice it, he is responsible, as Delegate of a foreign region, for espionage against The North Pacific.
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Zemnaya Svoboda
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Postby Zemnaya Svoboda » Thu May 14, 2015 3:12 pm

Zombie Venico wrote:No shit Elu and Flem would support a measure of declaring missions before hand. It's an inherently defender proposal. A defense/liberation while sometimes benefits from stealth most of the time doesn't use it or need it. Hell they're going out and asking as many people as possible for help. On the other hand, a raid is always about stealth/secrecy. Making the NPA propose an attack plan every time they want to raid would absolutely cripple its offensive capabilities...and they know that. It's why they support it.

Either way, I hope Tomb is ok and I wish my best to TNP. I hope you guys get a sound and reasonable delegate out of this and that your delegacy remains stable for awhile.


I would not support a policy which required notice to the Regional Assembly prior to movement.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Re: The Rejected Times: Tomb Resigns as TNP Delegate

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Thu May 14, 2015 3:24 pm

Calling anything in that article espionage is a crying wolf situation.

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Great Brigantia
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Postby Great Brigantia » Thu May 14, 2015 3:29 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Calling anything in that article espionage is a crying wolf situation.

So you keep saying, without addressing the fact that the article contains information only accessible to citizens of The North Pacific.
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Frances Francis the First of France
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Frances Francis the First of France » Thu May 14, 2015 3:46 pm

The Rejected Realms Media Corporation wrote:This week has been a rough week for the re-electee; although being soundly re-elected, he did face controversy when Cascadia announced prematurely that he had been appointed as Culture Minister, despite the fact that the (popular) sitting Culture Minister, Lord Lore hadn't been told first that he would be shuffled to the Entertainment Ministry.


I would like to point out that, that incident was more over the fact that there was no Entertainment Ministry, coupled with the announcement by Cascadia that he would absolutely be taking the ministry on the IRC several days before the end of voting.

Coupled with the fact that Entertainment was created only about an hour before voting ended and took on almost 90% of Culture's former duties. And due to a lie about how all contested ministries were given an application period for people apply despite the fact that Cascadia was just handed the ministry without any application phase.

~Lord Lore (aka Andulus, Anhur, Rapallo, and etc)

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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Thu May 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Great Brigantia wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Calling anything in that article espionage is a crying wolf situation.

So you keep saying, without addressing the fact that the article contains information only accessible to citizens of The North Pacific.


Right...because the possibility that someone in TNP blabbed just isn't possible. Chances are, it did happen. Just because you don't like the information being out there, doesn't mean espionage was involved. NS is full of gossip and TNP is no exception. Get over it.
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Great Brigantia
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Founded: Mar 30, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Brigantia » Thu May 14, 2015 7:47 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:Right...because the possibility that someone in TNP blabbed just isn't possible. Chances are, it did happen. Just because you don't like the information being out there, doesn't mean espionage was involved. NS is full of gossip and TNP is no exception. Get over it.

I'm sure someone in TNP did blab; that's the only way he could get the information. That doesn't make it any less espionage.
Cormac

Χαλεπὰ τὰ καλά (Naught Without Labor)

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Arctriul
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Founded: Mar 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Arctriul » Thu May 14, 2015 8:07 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Trick Shot wrote:It is rare I agree with Rifty, but uh...no...just no.

I wish The North Pacific the best of luck and, for the record, I look forward to continued relations with the NPA.


I, for one, welcome our new Gradea overlords.

How many times will TNP's alignment change and stance on interregional policy change across his term?

Prophet Alphonse Silverstorm
"I’m a shadow that no light will shine on. As long as you follow me, you will never see the day."

"He who controls the battlefield, Controls History."

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Sovreignry
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Founded: Sep 14, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Sovreignry » Thu May 14, 2015 9:23 pm

Great Brigantia wrote:
The Church of Satan wrote:Right...because the possibility that someone in TNP blabbed just isn't possible. Chances are, it did happen. Just because you don't like the information being out there, doesn't mean espionage was involved. NS is full of gossip and TNP is no exception. Get over it.

I'm sure someone in TNP did blab; that's the only way he could get the information. That doesn't make it any less espionage.

Considering that Unibot is incapable of seeing what you're accusing him of sharing, it is highly improbable he is guilty of espionage. Whoever did blab is most undoubtedly guilty of espionage, but it is impossible for Unibot to be guilty of espionage against TNP as '6. "Espionage" is defined as sharing information with a group or region when that act of sharing has not been legitimately sanctioned by the entity the information is gathered from, as limited by this section.'

So, to recap...

1. Unibot is unable to see what he wrote about.
2. In order for espionage to occur, someone has to share information.
3. Unibot is unable to share that information from TNP's forums.
4. Conclusion, it is impossible for Unibot to be guilty of espionage.
From the desk of
William Chocox Ambassador from The Unitary Kingdom of Sovreignry
Office 50, fifth floor, farthest from the elevator
You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. -Ardchoille
It would be easier just to incorporate a "Grief Region" button, so you wouldn't even need to make the effort to do the actual raiding. Players could just bounce from region to region and destroy everyone else's efforts at will, without even bothering about WA status. Wouldn't that be nice. -Frisbeeteria

Why yes, we are better looking: UDL

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