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The Rejected Times

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Solorni
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Founded: Sep 04, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Solorni » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:31 pm

What if independent regions primarily raid because many defenders strike them as those rather obnoxious vegans who are constantly telling people they should feel bad for eating their hamburger? The point is that I think many are motivated to raid simply because of the personalities of many of the leading defenders and there is a sense of duplicity. That while these more political defenders espouse a white knight mentality... that they would appear to simply be gaining power for themselves and treating the whole defender system as a political party. One can't help but look at Unibot pushing TEP, TNP & TSP defender and wondering were the loyalty really lies. There is something a little shameless about it; there is a reason why I've tended to focus on one region at a time.

People would even question whether such individuals are even defender or if they simply push those beliefs as a way to control others and influence regions. The point is that with such behaviour and the fact that they advocate for the destruction of independentism, simply because it challenges their behaviour and world view... how can the political independent who tends to be more of a realist and regionalist work with some defenders?
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:32 pm

That's not realism, that's schoolgirlism.
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Solorni
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Ex-Nation

Postby Solorni » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:33 pm

Or we could just go with the highschool jock philosophy advocated for by Unibot :P
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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: The Rejected Times: TSP drops Independentism!

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:35 pm

Rachel, the military forces of Independent regions are large enough to defend all on their own. That argument doesn't work.

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Solorni
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Postby Solorni » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:36 pm

But why emulate and give benefit to those who some people feel are the political bullies who disguise themselves as missionaries?
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Glen-Rhodes
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Ex-Nation

Re: The Rejected Times: TSP drops Independentism!

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:37 pm

Why do they still raid, when there are raiders they find equally annoying?

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Topid
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Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:37 pm

The only parties I know of with highly aggressive political goals are not defenders.

Defenders are notoriously bad at politics.
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Solorni
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Postby Solorni » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:38 pm

Which mainstream raider is as annoying as some of the mainstream defenders?
Last edited by Solorni on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ikand
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ikand » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:39 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Why do they still raid, when there are raiders they find equally annoying?


Because gameplay in general is fun, dude. It doesn't matter if it's raiding or defending, the main goal is to have fun.

/me goes back to his ebil cave
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Belschaft
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:44 pm

North East Somerset wrote:
Yao wrote:Why is it that independence was made in 2010 sometimes, but at other times independence started in GB&I in 2005? :blink:


Different iterations on the path to developing the modern Independence philosophy, all culminating in what we have today. The emergence of the new sinkers in 2011 acted as somewhat a melting pot of ideas as it were for some other influences. Suffice to say there were a variety of sources, including GB&I, where reference was made to "independent military policy" as far back as 2006. Another inspiration would be Equilism who talked about being an independent region in the 2008 Press Release: "Post Defender Age"; in which they attacked and split relations with the FRA in. Also there are influences from TNI, TSP & TNP as discussed above.

But if we had to single out a specific event as the beginning of Independence in the sense we mean it today, then I'd trace it back to when Oliver introduced the term a few days after a conversation where I coined the phrase in its Europeian context with him, in April 2011, see: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110333 . Europeia as the #2 UCR for the past 3.5 years since the introduction of the concept, have done probably more than anywhere to develop and popularise the term in it's modern usage.

I'm aware of the contributions made by GB&I and Equilism to the development of the ideas underpinning Independence, but they largely did so before my time. Do you know if they ever used the term with the explicit military connotations that it possesses these days?
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Ambrella
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Founded: Mar 17, 2007
Capitalizt

Postby Ambrella » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:11 pm

Anumia wrote:
Lethen wrote:Did I miss something along the way? Is my alter ego raiding and colonizing and hanging out with all sorts of hard-core raiders when I think I'm asleep? :eyebrow:


Nethel is a region-crasher!


All hail Nethel, praise be unto him.
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Anumia
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Founded: Apr 29, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Anumia » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:25 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:TSP and Europeia didn't have any problems involving Independence until a small handful of people high up decided we weren't being Independent enough. If Europeia has no problems with our stated policy on military operations, then we don't have any problems at all right now involving Independence.


TSP and Europeia didn't have any problems involving Independence until a small handful of people who have a problem with Independence got high up in TSP.

As I said earlier in this thread however, we don't have any issue with TSP's newly stated policy - indeed, greater detail is usually welcome. What is not appreciated is the concerted attack on the concept of Independence that started with the title of Unibot's gloating article, and has continued with statements from him, yourself, and a couple others thereafter in this thread.

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Defender regions are actually quite accommodating to non-defender regions, as long as "non-defender" doesn't basically equate to raider or imperialist.


I imagine they are indeed quite accommodating to TSP right now since it helps you out ;)

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Aperi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aperi » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:33 pm

I like how you use the pleasant sounding "independentism" to describe your little political bloc. Almost fools the reader to think you're advocating some lofty noble ideal rather than your own agenda. I never liked beating around the bush that much.
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Anumia
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Founded: Apr 29, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Anumia » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:39 pm

I may be wrong, but I think the only people using the word "Independentism" are the critics; note Unibot's title. I never liked the -ism part (have used it once or twice in "Defenderism" for lack of a better word but don't really like it used in any case relevant to this discussion).

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Belschaft
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Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:42 pm

Anumia wrote:I may be wrong, but I think the only people using the word "Independentism" are the critics; note Unibot's title. I never liked the -ism part (have used it once or twice in "Defenderism" for lack of a better word but don't really like it used in any case relevant to this discussion).

You would be correct. I am not aware of a single use of the term by any Independent individual or region - ever. It is used almost exclusively by Moralist Defenders, principally by Unibot.
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Aperi
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Postby Aperi » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:46 pm

For the semantic Sally's: identifying as independent is generally a pretty good way of identifying as an apologist for the imperialist bloc. The PRP used to do it all the time against the ADN. Much like how you wage the PR war today but you don't have the ammo we did so you make due. Not bad, but these arguments were made with more weight behind them. Now you just have the same trained monkies responding to everything and when the diplomatic shit hits the fan the big boys come out to play. How tired.
Last edited by Aperi on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aperi
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My other nation is Karpathos
“Our game is being turned into a filthy and evil-smelling imperialist barrack.

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Anumia
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Founded: Apr 29, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Anumia » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:51 pm

Belschaft wrote:
Anumia wrote:I may be wrong, but I think the only people using the word "Independentism" are the critics; note Unibot's title. I never liked the -ism part (have used it once or twice in "Defenderism" for lack of a better word but don't really like it used in any case relevant to this discussion).

You would be correct. I am not aware of a single use of the term by any Independent individual or region - ever. It is used almost exclusively by Moralist Defenders, principally by Unibot.


That would be because, aside from how clunky and awful "Independentism" looks (although that one might just be my issue :P ), it serves those people well in their interest to define Independence as "just another ideology". Give it the same suffix as ideologies generally, and, just like what I noted a couple of pages ago, it's another step in this language battle to define the war.

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Rhina
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Founded: Jul 12, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rhina » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:55 pm

Aperi wrote:For the semantic Sally's: identifying as independent is generally a pretty good way of identifying as an apologist for the imperialist bloc.

Also known as reasonable individuals who prefer to negotiate and come to an understanding, rather than be uncompromising and unliked.
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Aperi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aperi » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:58 pm

Rhina wrote:
Aperi wrote:For the semantic Sally's: identifying as independent is generally a pretty good way of identifying as an apologist for the imperialist bloc.

Also known as reasonable individuals who prefer to negotiate and come to an understanding, rather than be uncompromising and unliked.

Unliked? Sure, by my opponents. Uncompromising? Not so much. Ask around.
Aperi
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My other nation is Karpathos
“Our game is being turned into a filthy and evil-smelling imperialist barrack.

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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:24 am

Solorni wrote:Which mainstream raider is as annoying as some of the mainstream defenders?


Let's not open such a can of worms. It can go nowhere well.

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Topid
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:58 am

Belschaft wrote:
Anumia wrote:I may be wrong, but I think the only people using the word "Independentism" are the critics; note Unibot's title. I never liked the -ism part (have used it once or twice in "Defenderism" for lack of a better word but don't really like it used in any case relevant to this discussion).
You would be correct. I am not aware of a single use of the term by any Independent individual or region - ever. It is used almost exclusively by Moralist Defenders, principally by Unibot.
Solorni wrote:independentism
The. Same. Freaking. Page. Guys.

For the love of Pete...
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Solorni wrote:Which mainstream raider is as annoying as some of the mainstream defenders?


Let's not open such a can of worms. It can go nowhere well.

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Aperi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aperi » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:17 am

Bustedddddd
Aperi
Patriot of Lazarus
Comrade Protector

My other nation is Karpathos
“Our game is being turned into a filthy and evil-smelling imperialist barrack.

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Rhina
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Founded: Jul 12, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rhina » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:22 am

Aperi wrote:Unliked? Sure, by my opponents.
Of whom you are making one of anyone who is not a Defender.

Aperi wrote:Uncompromising? Not so much. Ask around.
Don't have to. Your arguments thus far boil down to, "If you're not with me, you're against me." I don't need to know anything else.
Mara Sargon
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Aperi
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Postby Aperi » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:28 am

Rhina wrote:
Aperi wrote:Unliked? Sure, by my opponents.
Of whom you are making one of anyone who is not a Defender.

Aperi wrote:Uncompromising? Not so much. Ask around.
Don't have to. Your arguments thus far boil down to, "If you're not with me, you're against me." I don't need to know anything else.


Now you're just talking out of your ass. I have friends from all walks of GP. Granted more of them are defenders these days but what would you expect? They're the ones who I'm politically aligned with these days. That doesn't mean I can't sit down with other pragmatic nations and negotiate based on our similar interests. Look at the peace that was negotiated by yours truly and Douria. Furthermore, GP is too "buddy-buddy" as is. Paraphrasing Scarface, you need a bad guy so things stay interesting. ;) Next time TBR comes to the aid of Lazarus I'll be sure to send some zingers when a "destroy TBR" thread pops up.
Last edited by Aperi on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Aperi
Patriot of Lazarus
Comrade Protector

My other nation is Karpathos
“Our game is being turned into a filthy and evil-smelling imperialist barrack.

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Belschaft
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Posts: 2409
Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:51 am

Topid wrote:
Belschaft wrote:You would be correct. I am not aware of a single use of the term by any Independent individual or region - ever. It is used almost exclusively by Moralist Defenders, principally by Unibot.
Solorni wrote:independentism
The. Same. Freaking. Page. Guys.

Look at the context; sardonic mockery of Unibot. That certainly doesn't count as "usage".
You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of.
You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.

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