The Rejected Times

[Klaus Devestatorie]

-snip-

When the forum complained about choosing England, I couldn't help but point out how appropriate such complaints were for the English region.

relevant - http://i.imgur.com/xL4Ixi8.png

[Mallorea and Riva]

Didn't notice this had been edited in.

There's a story behind that nickname which ultimately comes from me. Don't try and throw it back at her like it's some kind of ego thing.

What a silly argument. This is exactly how Mousebumples has presented herself: in the repeal thread, she noted that "one of the largest things that I'm seeing here is a disconnect between the NatSov camps (to which I, largely, belong) and the IntFed camp (to which many of the loudest critics belong)". It's a cheap plea to Us vs. Them, piggybacking off the legacy of a movement totally at odds with her actual actions. The Abortion Legality Convention was actually drafted on the NSO forums!

I'm not saying don't present her as a NatSov. Granted you're making a mistake if you're assuming that her position is purely natsov on all matters (she is more IntFed leaning than I am on a number of issues).

I'm baffled by how transferring WA activities to other nations owned by the same player would assuage fears of impropriety. That having been said, mods are players. We play the game too, and at no point has she tried to use her position to advantage her in-game. If you feel otherwise please report it, otherwise it just looks like a sad attempt to sling mud at her.

I can submit a GHR if you like, but I already noted my concerns in the repeal thread. Ardchoille and Kryozerkia conducting their actions through their puppets has made it much easier to distinguish their official opinions from their personal ones, though.

I don't see your concern in any of the three repeal threads that Mouse has up. Feel free to link me, but I'll note that not a single soul complained when Flib posts using his main or drafted the CPA.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I don't see your concern in any of the three repeal threads that Mouse has up. Feel free to link me

Ok:

OOC: Regarding legality issues, I'm going to assume that all of these comments are only unofficial opinions, as they seem to be vaguely in-character (although your replying in-character to out-of-character posts really does signal the final straw of any pretence of roleplay in the WA), but you are still posting with your moderator account. Every post you make is marked with your title as an official moderator. It creates the uneasy appearance of you deciding legality issues on your own proposal, and in this case you are substantially overruling the precedent of Dresophila Prime's "Repeal Gay Rights". Bear in mind that other moderators have avoided this problem by splitting their duties between puppets (see the difference between posts by Ardchoille and Ardchoilleans, Kryozerkia and Three Weasels).

[Mallorea and Riva]

I don't see your concern in any of the three repeal threads that Mouse has up. Feel free to link me

Ok:

OOC: Regarding legality issues, I'm going to assume that all of these comments are only unofficial opinions, as they seem to be vaguely in-character (although your replying in-character to out-of-character posts really does signal the final straw of any pretence of roleplay in the WA), but you are still posting with your moderator account. Every post you make is marked with your title as an official moderator. It creates the uneasy appearance of you deciding legality issues on your own proposal, and in this case you are substantially overruling the precedent of Dresophila Prime's "Repeal Gay Rights". Bear in mind that other moderators have avoided this problem by splitting their duties between puppets (see the difference between posts by Ardchoille and Ardchoilleans, Kryozerkia and Three Weasels).

Missed it because of the spoilers. Moderators do not rule on their own proposals, you know that as well as I do. Again, no complaints against Flib then or now. Also the Generalite mods post with the mains with no ill effects. If you have a serious legality challenge to the proposal that cannot be resolved within the thread you can deal with it via the normal method. Mouse knows that she won't participate in a legality discussion of her proposals should one be necessary, and I think I've kept myself out of her threads (I think I commented in one of them either just before or shortly after I was modded) to keep things simpler.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Missed it because of the spoilers. Moderators do not rule on their own proposals, you know that as well as I do.

I agree completely that they shouldn't. That's my entire problem.

If you have a serious legality challenge to the proposal that cannot be resolved within the thread you can deal with it via the normal method.

I do, and I have done so, but that's not relevant to this discussion. I would feel the same way about proposals against which I had no serious legality complaint (such as the concurrent repeal of the MPA). It's a curious standard you're striking, whining that I am "slinging mud", yet being equally willing to impugn my own motives. It's almost as though you're less concerned with maintaining decorous standards as with playing sides. But that couldn't possibly be.

I've always appreciated the lengths Ardchoille has gone to to separate her official opinions posted through her mod account, and her personal opinions posted through her puppet. Apparently that was all a waste?

[Mallorea and Riva]

If you have a serious legality challenge to the proposal that cannot be resolved within the thread you can deal with it via the normal method.

I do, and I have done so, but that's not relevant to this discussion. I would feel the same way about proposals against which I had no serious legality complaint (such as the concurrent repeal of the MPA). It's a curious standard you're striking, whining that I am "slinging mud", yet being equally willing to impugn my own motives. It's almost as though you're less concerned with maintaining decorous standards as with playing sides. But that couldn't possibly be.

I've always appreciated the lengths Ardchoille has gone to to separate her official opinions posted through her mod account, and her personal opinions posted through her puppet. Apparently that was all a waste?

I'm not sure where I've impugned your motives. I'm noting that you've made a fairly serious accusation of moderator impropriety but not dealing with it in any way as to actually have it addressed. I'm sure Ard appreciates your appreciation. If you would like us to make it a matter of policy for moderators not to post with our accounts except when making rulings then please feel free to make a discussion thread in moderation about it, or send us a GHR outlining your concerns if you aren't comfortable with a thread. Otherwise this doesn't look like a constructive attempt to improve anything, it looks like you saying that Mouse is ruling on her own proposals officially which simply isn't the case.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I'm noting that you've made a fairly serious accusation of moderator impropriety

No, I didn't. The article said "conflict of interest":
"The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety."

[Mallorea and Riva]

I'm noting that you've made a fairly serious accusation of moderator impropriety

No, I didn't. The article said "conflict of interest":
"The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety."

Fair enough. As I noted, the conflict of interest was defused by Mouse stating that she would not be involved in any of the rulings on her proposals. So that only leaves my other comments, take them or leave them as you will.

[Solorni]

The sad reality is these folks always wave the banner of "we're doing the right thing", but they're insulting the memory of those who fought in the War against real Nazi communities, while perpetuating the growth of Nazi communities. This is an international circlejerk, not a compassionate stand against prejudice and genocide".

What a vile thing to even think let alone have the audacity to say Unibot. Many people on both sides of the debate about whether or not to raid Nazi regions have had family members who have both fought & suffered during World War II. I have relatives who both fought & who suffered during the Dutch Famine. Trying to shame people for raiding Nazi Regions by saying that they are insulting the memory of those who fought... is simply unbelievable and pretty sickening.

Next time, keep your vile and hateful thoughts to yourself.

[Parhe]

The sad reality is these folks always wave the banner of "we're doing the right thing", but they're insulting the memory of those who fought in the War against real Nazi communities, while perpetuating the growth of Nazi communities. This is an international circlejerk, not a compassionate stand against prejudice and genocide".

What a vile thing to even think let alone have the audacity to say Unibot. Many people on both sides of the debate about whether or not to raid Nazi regions have had family members who have both fought & suffered during World War II. I have relatives who both fought & who suffered during the Dutch Famine. Trying to shame people for raiding Nazi Regions by saying that they are insulting the memory of those who fought... is simply unbelievable and pretty sickening.

Next time, keep your vile and hateful thoughts to yourself.

It isn't as much sickening as it is the both of you just seeing it on different levels. The way I interpreted what Unibot meant, although I admit I may be wrong as well, is that acting like it is comparable or in similar leagues to raid regions of fake [and some real] Nazi's to what the people that actually fought/suffered against/because of Nazi Germany did.

[The Grim Reaper]

Nobody should be giving a fuck what anyone says about what they're doing.

The problem is Nazism. Anything we can do to reduce the influence of Nazism in NS is good. The question of whether raiding them does or doesn't do that should be pragmatic, statistical, and objective.

Unibot, that crossed the line, and you know it. Rach, stop trying to score points. Unibot had a point, Rachel, in that the Antifa movement is a painful shadow of the merest sentiments that powered WWII and the Spanish government in the Revolution. You have no right to equally try to use your ancestors to shame Unibot.

We are not talking about ad hominems here - we are talking about the fact that there are young children and teenagers who use this site, and it is absolutely not appropriate to give children the impression that Nazism is to be tolerated by mature adults. We have to make the decision between whether it is better to oppose Nazism actively or sweep it under the rug in a Gameplay sense, just as the NSGers do their part in batting off the hordes of Summer by arguing the points of Nazism and RPers sweep childish Nazi roleplay under the rug.

GP needs to get its head together and stop being the weakest link here. I don't give a fuck about what either of you want to say about each other's ancestors.

Think of the children.

[Solorni]

I'm not trying to score any points. I was genuinely insulted and upset by what he said. We can have discussions without bringing in that sort of thing that deliberately insults people.

[The Grim Reaper]

I'm not trying to score any points. I was genuinely insulted and upset by what he said. We can have discussions without bringing in that sort of thing that deliberately insults people.

Looking at it statistically, I don't see any evidence to say that we can. Unibot has been a target of significantly worse, and I don't remember you standing up for him.

Address the rest of my post.

[Solorni]

I'm not trying to score any points. I was genuinely insulted and upset by what he said. We can have discussions without bringing in that sort of thing that deliberately insults people.

Looking at it statistically, I don't see any evidence to say that we can. Unibot has been a target of significantly worse, and I don't remember you standing up for him.

Address the rest of my post.

I've stood up for Unibot in the past but there comes a point when people are beyond defending. I'm not going to address the rest of your post after your unfair assumption about me. I've lost the level of respect required to reply to your demands.

[The Dourian Embassy]

Look. There's about 50 different things I can take issue with in the latest issue(natsov is dead, lol)... but at this point why bother. The "rejected times" isn't even pretending to make sense anymore. I'm convinced they live in a bubble they've created for themselves where everything they say is true. But out here, it simply isn't.

[Glen-Rhodes]

It's always original to call The Rejected Times nonsense or propaganda.

[Mallorea and Riva]

It's always original to call The Rejected Times nonsense or propaganda.

Not as original as it is for them to publish nonsense and propaganda.

[The North Polish Union]

Nobody should be giving a fuck what anyone says about what they're doing.

The problem is Nazism. Anything we can do to reduce the influence of Nazism in NS is good. The question of whether raiding them does or doesn't do that should be pragmatic, statistical, and objective.

Unibot, that crossed the line, and you know it. Rach, stop trying to score points. Unibot had a point, Rachel, in that the Antifa movement is a painful shadow of the merest sentiments that powered WWII and the Spanish government in the Revolution. You have no right to equally try to use your ancestors to shame Unibot.

We are not talking about ad hominems here - we are talking about the fact that there are young children and teenagers who use this site, and it is absolutely not appropriate to give children the impression that Nazism is to be tolerated by mature adults. We have to make the decision between whether it is better to oppose Nazism actively or sweep it under the rug in a Gameplay sense, just as the NSGers do their part in batting off the hordes of Summer by arguing the points of Nazism and RPers sweep childish Nazi roleplay under the rug.

GP needs to get its head together and stop being the weakest link here. I don't give a fuck about what either of you want to say about each other's ancestors.

Think of the children.

Thank you.

[Glen-Rhodes]

We are not talking about ad hominems here - we are talking about the fact that there are young children and teenagers who use this site, and it is absolutely not appropriate to give children the impression that Nazism is to be tolerated by mature adults. We have to make the decision between whether it is better to oppose Nazism actively or sweep it under the rug in a Gameplay sense, just as the NSGers do their part in batting off the hordes of Summer by arguing the points of Nazism and RPers sweep childish Nazi roleplay under the rug.

This sounds more like a case for getting Max to ban Nazism from this website, than it is to get people to raid Nazis. People have provided statistical evidence that wars on Nazi region only create more Nazi regions. So it really is a catch-22.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

We are not talking about ad hominems here - we are talking about the fact that there are young children and teenagers who use this site, and it is absolutely not appropriate to give children the impression that Nazism is to be tolerated by mature adults. We have to make the decision between whether it is better to oppose Nazism actively or sweep it under the rug in a Gameplay sense, just as the NSGers do their part in batting off the hordes of Summer by arguing the points of Nazism and RPers sweep childish Nazi roleplay under the rug.

This sounds more like a case for getting Max to ban Nazism from this website, than it is to get people to raid Nazis. People have provided statistical evidence that wars on Nazi region only create more Nazi regions. So it really is a catch-22.

No they haven't. They've provided data that shows a mild increase in the population of a select group of Nazi regions across a broad period of time when NS population in general was increasing.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Nor does it rule it out. (hint: read the alt text!)

So maybe another statistical analysis is needed. The Rejected Times has an editorial writer who knows their way around R, by the looks of it.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Nor does it rule it out. (hint: read the alt text!)

So maybe another statistical analysis is needed. The Rejected Times has an editorial writer who knows their way around R, by the looks of it.

Just because something isn't ruled out it isn't automatically true. I'm not the one claiming that statistical data proving something has been presented.

[Misley]

Perhaps The Rejected Times would be well-served by examining the number of raids carried out by the Right Wing Uprising before, during, and following the Liberation of Nazi Europe.

In a result that will surprise absolutely no one, save for apparently Unibot and the UDL, when RWU's WA forces were tied up holding a dead carcass of a region, they weren't able to strike out at very many regions, and the one or two raids they did conduct were not long-term because they couldn't afford to spread themselves thin! Then, in the days immediately following the repeal of the liberation, they were able to organize several tag raids, and ultimately were able to bring two raids to a full password (Liberal Haven, which required a SC Liberation to undo, and The Old West).

Pretending that if we ignore Nazism or give Fascists a goddamn platform from which to spread their hate that it will somehow wither away is just mind-boggling. The persecution complex they have rightly earned isn't the only thing that nourishes Fascist thought, and vocal, relentless anti-fascism may indeed dissuade otherwise manipulable minds from subscribing to an ideology of hate.

But you're right, how barbaric and Nazi-serving of us to deny a platform to would-be mass murderers. Perhaps we should tell the immigrants in Greece to just ignore the murderous assaults of the Golden Dawn, and the Jews in Ukraine not to worry about literal Fascists having stolen power in that country while stating on the record that Ukraine's problems are because of the "Muscovite-Jewish mafia."

... Nah. Bash the Fash!

[Glen-Rhodes]

Nor does it rule it out. (hint: read the alt text!)

So maybe another statistical analysis is needed. The Rejected Times has an editorial writer who knows their way around R, by the looks of it.

Just because something isn't ruled out it isn't automatically true. I'm not the one claiming that statistical data proving something has been presented.

The statistical evidence we have suggests that Nazi populations grew during the wars against them. If you dispute that, then let's do more rigorous statistical analysis. Science!

[The North Polish Union]

Just because something isn't ruled out it isn't automatically true. I'm not the one claiming that statistical data proving something has been presented.

The statistical evidence we have suggests that Nazi populations grew during the wars against them. If you dispute that, then let's do more rigorous statistical analysis. Science!

Glen, I think you missed part of Bel's post:

No they haven't. They've provided data that shows a mild increase in the population of a select group of Nazi regions across a broad period of time when NS population in general was increasing.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Both emphases are mine.

Obviously, if NS population as a whole was increasing, the population of Nazi regions would increase proportionally to that of NS as a whole.

Even though the "height" of the anti-Nazi war took place during this overall population increase, the increase still isn't tied into the war against Nazis.