The Rejected Times

[Solorni]

So we aren't that partisan, at least compared to regions such as TRR & Lazarus which openly state to be defender. Perhaps if TRR was as open and accepting as Balder, it'd also have a greater amount of activity and interest?

I'm still waiting for a response on why my citizenship application was denied... I guess I am a defender extremist too!

Actually, your espionage activities in Ainur are what led to your application being denied in Balder.

It's no wonder Lazarenes hate Balder. We don't need to pretend our region is our home.

I mean, hate is a very strong word for an online game. But I'm sure it doesn't exactly help our view of Balder when its delegate-to-be makes statements like this.

Our? Your nation is in TRR and your flag is the TRR flag. Or are you a Lazarene this week too?

Lazarus has not had a coup since JAL.

The PRL was created by the constitutional government of Lazarus at its time, through a democratic vote by the Emerald Council. It was popularly approved and is only a coup as far as players like you pretend it was. The same players who pretend that Feux unilaterally banned NES and Vik, without first seeking the approval -- and gaining the necessary support-- of the Council.

I think you forgot to mention that AMOM was the one who announced the Lazarus purges and that Feux was going to remove them on the NS forums. Since when was this a Lazarus thing?

Filled to the brim? Excluding your misconceptions and lack of knowledge about our population, I'll presume you're saying that almost everyone is an extremist, as that is what the term means

So, is DYP an extremist? Is Fantome an extremist? Is Bodobol an extremist? Is Hobbes an extremist?

How are you even defining extremist? Are you trying to make it sound like we're Al-Qaeda or something?

From what I've seen on the forums from Funkedelia & V I Lenin, they appear to be extremists based upon their extreme views. Furthermore, people have been saying all the candidates are the same and I've seen enough of Funkedelia to know this can't be a good thing.

Where do you think King NES prioritized Lazarus compared to his other regions? Would he place it above Europeia, The New Inquisition, The Land of Kings and Emperors, or GB&I? I don't think so.

Interesting that you don't mention Griff, who regularly, and happily, let her nation go a month or so without logging in while serving as Kaisseren of the New Inquisition. Lazarus would've done a lot better if she gave even a fraction of the dedication to Lazarus that she did to TNI during the longest reign in our region's history. The culture of neglect in Lazarus was forwarded by many who sought to take advantage of it, and, evidently, it didn't really change until the PRL, which now enjoys a large population of players who put it first.

I wasn't around then. But yes, like I said before, I'm including anyone. From what I've read, Feux was worse than Griffin in terms of activity.

And Lazarus never gave the GCR's a bad name. The people who didn't treat it well did poorly by it. That sort of comment certainly has something to do with why we don't hold players like you in high regard.

Lol, so when people discuss massively inactive GCRs and say they don't deserve their pedestal, who do you think they're talking about? Lazarus gave GCRs a bad name and you see it to this to this day in the ardent anti-GCR people who feel GCRs are inactive and not worth the acclaim.

You talk about Lazarus being a stepping stone, and yet my main nation has resided here for over a year now, my WA is regularly active in the regional army, and my posting activity is no less significant than it was during my delegacy. I log in to Lazarus first every day and, if you ask anyone, am more active in its affairs than any other region by far. It is my first region, and it is a primary region to others as well, such as DYP, Fantome, Earth and Freedom, Stu, Bodo, Llamas, Kazmr, Harm, Hobbes, and so on.

Like I said, Kazmr might be the first delegate in a while not to move on to bigger and better things. It doesn't negate the point that nearly all of it's delegates have used the region as a stepping stone.

Are you seriously suggesting that Harmoneia used Lazarus -- a region which she has been in from back when its delegate had ten endorsements -- as a stepping stone for power in the UDL? Pass me whatever you're smoking, because that must be that dank ass shit.

Harmoneia didn't care enough to return to Lazarus when she initially returned to NS, instead moving on to the UDL. It's quite common for Lazarene leadership to hightail it out of there as fast as they can when other positions open up.

Cerebella, former King of Balder, was recently crowned Kaiser of The New Inquisition, all while being the King of Albion and a commanding presence in the United Imperial Armed Forces. Surely you aren't suggesting that that sort of scenario differs from the ones you just (inaccurately) criticized Lazarenes for?

Yet his main nation resides in Balder & so does his WA. Whereas virtually all delegates in Lazarus' history have used the region to get ahead somewhere else as I have listed repeatedly. I mean, who can forget when AMOM was announcing Lazarus policy?

We only have an issue with Balder because of its contribution to the misinformation campaign and slander against our region. Your own, personal diplomatic participation during that event was pointedly disrespectful, and it should be no surprise to you of all people that we hold your conduct against you and, by extension, the region that you served as Queen of at the time of the event. Relations between Lazarus and Balder cannot, and will not, improve until something greater than an insincere apology is provided to our community.

Not sure how it's misinformation or slander... criticism is a healthy part of any region. Well, healthy regions. Most of my points have not been responded to, particularly regarding Feux or how the natives hands must have fallen off

Despite the TBR stuffing, I can accept that Osiris has some power to project. But Balder's military has always been a paper tiger, and here it's just been sold out for a juxtaposition of political reasons. Balder's military has been non-existent for ages, and ISRA only makes it slightly harder to see how the struggles in the regional military are neglected in favor of policies of unregretful opportunism.

IRSA might as well merge with the UIAF to make it honest. Cerebella and Consular were supposed to be running the show, and on top of the obvious personnel similarities it's acknowledged that ISRA was, in practice, a UIAF side-project.

Holy shiitake mushrooms, all the misinformation & slander against our region. This is most upsetting. Relations aren't going to improve until Lazarus makes a sincere apology. Just kiddding. We're not that immature

Balder has had a successful military in the past and it can support a successful military, I mean if Lazarus can do it, truly any region can do it. It simply has not been a focus in Balder & we have had self-proclaimed pacifists & wildcards in the region. It is not a UIAF side project. The leadership of it was originally supposed to be led by Sev before he became Osiris Delegate.

[The Leningrad Union]

lol his first post ever in gameplay and he gets warned.

That's GP for you!

I don't subscribe to that form of middle school humor.

But do you subscribe to college humor?

[McMasterdonia]

Charles Cerebella has been an active and highly contributive member of Balder for some time now. As Solorni said, his WA nation and main nation resides there and has done for some time. His dedication to Balder or to any community he serves is unfair and petty at best. Especially when he hasn't even been involved in this debate.

As much as I like Feux, he was a fairly inactive Delegate. I don't know how that compares to Griff, but I don't think it is fair to blame that inactivity on the imperialists. The Delegate is in an important position to help drive activity in a region, but that drive needs to be supported by the community and the regional infrastructure. In this case, I think it was a failing on both sides that lead to the activity issues.

As I've said before there are many striking similarities between what happened in Lazarus and what occurred in Osiris. It just suits those who argue about them to suggest that they are totally different. Osiris purged the Empire members who were counterproductive to the regions long term stability and activity, Lazarus purged the imperialists based on similar accusations. I'm not providing any weight to either argument, but that would be an accurate description of what was alleged at the time.

---

On Funkadelia, Solorni, I respectfully must disagree with your assessment of his character. The Funkadelia I know very well is an effective community builder, legislator, a competent military leader, Delegate and cabinet Minister. His current ideology I might not completely agree with, however, this doesn't inherently mean that he lacks competence or that he will not be an excellent Delegate for Lazarus. I believe he will be.

I'll also add that his real life views are pretty much the opposite of his views in this game. He is simply able to keep them quite separate. I used to call him Mitt, to his great annoyance, because of his extremely capitalist views

[Solorni]

Also, my sources tell me that Lazarus has an economy and that Funkedelia is the richest member there

So your capitalist story maaay pan out.

[The Leningrad Union]

Also, my sources tell me that Lazarus has an economy and that Funkedelia is the richest member there

So your capitalist story maaay pan out.

Market Socialism, my friend!

[McMasterdonia]

Clearly Funkadelia intends to change Lazarus from a communist state to a capitalist one!

[Milograd]

Charles Cerebella has been an active and highly contributive member of Balder for some time now. As Solorni said, his WA nation and main nation resides there and has done for some time. His dedication to Balder or to any community he serves is unfair and petty at best. Especially when he hasn't even been involved in this debate.

Quite. I was using him ironically as an example to demonstrate the sheer absurdity in making similar accusations about DYP and Harm in Lazarus. Neither are careerists, and I'd be curious to watch someone reasonably dispute that.

As much as I like Feux, he was a fairly inactive Delegate. I don't know how that compares to Griff, but I don't think it is fair to blame that inactivity on the imperialists. The Delegate is in an important position to help drive activity in a region, but that drive needs to be supported by the community and the regional infrastructure. In this case, I think it was a failing on both sides that lead to the activity issues.

In terms of individual posts and the postcount of the community, Feux was superior to Griff, and Griff logged in significantly less than Feux. TNI also supported one successful coup of Lazarus, but I guess that Lazarus is supposed to ignore that...for whatever reason.

Mind you, it's always been known that Feux had to give more attention to preventing a civil war than to other fun things, given that Griff wanted to coup -- and could've, given the influence levels she boasted -- as early as Feux's first month in office. Feux knew that she had been considering it as early as November 2012, and has expressed that it interfered with steps in the right direction.

[North East Somerset]

I'd just like to take a moment to respond to some of the more spurious allegations made against Balder and myself during this recent little exhibition from our defender friends Unibot and Milograd. It is fantastic to see such great Public Relations expertise in action against the threat of imperialism, but I must say, I expected a lot better.

I'll address their points by each theme:

1) They allege Balder is the "worst" or 2nd worst GCR:

Well, obviously this is a very opinion based rather than fact based assessment. I wouldn't expect two defender extremists to think too favourably of any non-defender region, and what a surprise, they don't!

Indeed Unibot's list broadly follows the raider-defender spectrum of the GCRs, with defenders near the top of the list - although Osiris sticks out as surprisingly high - one can only wonder what that is in aide of. Putting TNP, without doubt one of the most active and politically vibrant GCRs, so low down - is surely indefensible. Perhaps he is still bitter his attempts to interfere in the last TNP elections backfired so badly?

There seems to be little attempt to list the GCRs in order of the strength or activity of the native communities, or the number of people that regularly enjoy participating in them. Indeed, coming from the Delegate of TRR, a region constantly shackled by it's defender dogma, and consistently with dismal activity compared to Balder, I can understand why he wouldn't want to do that.

Indeed, I'm astonished Unibot would think TNP and Balder are some of the least open regions to new members - pot calling the kettle black anyone? TRR is full of old defenders who do nothing apart from criticise raiders and moan about the present state of affairs, and has hardly any new or vibrant members. It's basically an Old Boys Club for UDLers and FRAers.

2) They allege Balder has been a "snoozefest" since I have taken over as Delegate and that nothing has "actually happenned".

Once again, it's funny this pair know so much about Balder considering they aren't even members of it. I can only point to the facts which show that Balder has enjoyed activity levels above it's historic average over the past 6 months, an achievement for any region approaching it's 3rd year. Indeed other than the Delegacy of Rach, which enjoyed extraordinarily high activity levels, Balder has never been in a stronger position activity wise.

The pair may not be aware of the Constitutional changes which have shifted a considerable amount of Governmental and Executive responsibilities to the Statsminister and away from the Monarch, but let's not let that get in the way of a good NES bashing. A wide variety of new members have joined during my term, and we have seen competitive elections for the Statsminister position and a very well equipped Government being appointed. Indeed, recently we have seen diplomatic progress being made, such as the implementation of ISRA which no doubt we will come on to next.

3) The ISRA Treaty was "intended to keep Osi where [NES] wanted it"

The ISRA treaty was constructed with significant input from key Osirans and the purpose of it is to strengthen both Balder and Osiris. There is no one region above the other in this Treaty, and both regions have considerable areas of expertise to offer. What we do know is that alone we are a lot weaker than we are together. I don't know where Milograd and Unibot have "heard" these rumours, but I'd rather suggest they are very convenient rumours which are entirely fabricated and false. ISRA is an equal and mutually beneficial partnership between two regions.

Indeed I find it very ironic that Milograd of all people chooses to criticise Balder for constructing a joint military, whilst serving as Arch Chancellor of the FRA - a joint military which includes in it's ranks both Lazarus and TRR. A top-down set up which allows him to exercise control over the military affairs of two defender GCRs, plus a number of irrelevant defender UCRs. I daresay I'm entitled to call you a hypocrite...

[McMasterdonia]

Charles Cerebella has been an active and highly contributive member of Balder for some time now. As Solorni said, his WA nation and main nation resides there and has done for some time. His dedication to Balder or to any community he serves is unfair and petty at best. Especially when he hasn't even been involved in this debate.

Quite. I was using him ironically as an example to demonstrate the sheer absurdity in making similar accusations about DYP and Harm in Lazarus. Neither are careerists, and I'd be curious to watch someone reasonably dispute that.

Well I don't think they're careerists either.

As much as I like Feux, he was a fairly inactive Delegate. I don't know how that compares to Griff, but I don't think it is fair to blame that inactivity on the imperialists. The Delegate is in an important position to help drive activity in a region, but that drive needs to be supported by the community and the regional infrastructure. In this case, I think it was a failing on both sides that lead to the activity issues.

In terms of individual posts and the postcount of the community, Feux was superior to Griff, and Griff logged in significantly less than Feux. TNI also supported one successful coup of Lazarus, but I guess that Lazarus is supposed to ignore that...for whatever reason.

Mind you, it's always been known that Feux had to give more attention to preventing a civil war than to other fun things, given that Griff wanted to coup -- and could've, given the influence levels she boasted -- as early as Feux's first month in office. Feux knew that she had been considering it as early as November 2012, and has expressed that it interfered with steps in the right direction.

Yes Griff was inactive for most of the term, but Feux wasn't hugely active either. But the inactivity seemed across the board at the time. It just seems very unlikely that the imperialists were to blame for the inactivity. The new citizens that were gained after the purge were mostly from other regions and it wasn't as though the number of native WA's or nations suddenly went up exponentially on the forum. The activity simply came from another source. I think this has substantially leveled out now. Either way pointing fingers were the activity issue is concerned is counter productive.

I spoke to Feux as often as was reasonably possible and was aware of some of the difficulties he was facing. Just as Rach did and I believed those discussions they had were productive and genuinely friendly. It is just disappointing to me that relations between Balder and Lazarus deteriorated to this point in the first place. This really didn't need to happen. It should be reasonably possible for Lazarus and Balder to accept their differences and to simply keep an embassy open for the distribution of updates and cordial relations.

The Riksraadet of Balder had agreed to stay out of the affairs of Lazarus when we met immediately after Feux had purged certain members. The Riksraadet had intended to keep relations open and to attempt to come to some reasonable grounds of dialogue and communication at the very least. We didn't see an immediate reason to close the relations. Ultimately, Lazarus would make that decision of their own accord.. and now we're here....

[North East Somerset]

Personally I've had no involvement in the Lazarus Government since mid 2009 when I served briefly as Foreign Minister so I can't really accept much blame for the state of affairs in 2013. Back in 2009, GCR activity across the board was much lower than it is today. Other than myself and Griffin there was no other imperialist members in Lazarus until late 2012. And even Griffin's Governments were anything but Imperialist - she had support from or appointed to Cabinet the likes of Northern Chittowa and Drop Your Pants. Indeed because of this DYP somehow ended up as my son, and NC my grandson!

To allege that imperialism could be to blame for the dismal state of activity during Feux's term is preposterous. Milograd wasn't even there so it's no wonder he doesn't know his Lazarus history beyond the propaganda and lies he has made up to replace it's history. Feux consistently appointed to power NPO-aligned defenders who were dead set against any new members joining, and then wondered why activity was stifled. When you set NPO as a favourable model of something you want to emulate, of course activity is going to be stifled.

In constrast the Imperialist record of activity throughout Nationstates is exemplary, and I serve as Admin on 6 imperialist and independent forums with about 1.5 million posts between them, and to this day are averaging around 1000 posts per day collectively. Excepting 10KI, find me 6 defender regions that have achieved anything like that, over such a long period of time - and I'll drop my gameplay alignment tomorrow.

[McMasterdonia]

That's the thing.. It doesn't really make sense to blame the imperialists for the inactivity. The Delegate is in a position of power to drive activity in the region and to bring new people in. The application process was pretty simple. But even to blame the Delegate entirely doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless Feux was actively blocking people from joining the region.

The issue I think was in the regional infrastructure and this meant that there wasn't much to support a Delegate or the activity of the region in a sustainable way.

[Venico]

Spiritus, Wintreath, Lazarus, TRR...anyone else got another two? =P

[Milograd]

To allege that imperialism could be to blame for the dismal state of activity during Feux's term is preposterous. He appointed a Cabinet of NPO-aligned defenders who were dead set against any new members joining, and then wondered why activity was stifled.

Cabinet of NPO-aligned defenders?

I didn't realize that Activity Commissioner Griffin was an NPO-aligned defender. For the majority of his term, Feux's cabinet consisted of DYP, Vik, and Stu...

And "stifled" would imply that activity was lively during Griff's term, which the numbers show not to be the case by any means.

The suggestion that imperialism was a contributive factor to the inactivity in Lazarus is in part based upon the facts that the longest delegacy in our history was headed by someone who gave more time to The New Inquisition than to Lazarus, and that the culture of letting Lazarus decay while building other regions considerably was unfair and unhealthy. For all the supposed care that you have/had for Lazarus, NES, why is it that you never put the work you put into independent UCR's into Lazarus?

Notwithstanding that angling, your assertion deflects from our chief grievance that imperialists uninvested in Lazarus' future emerged from the woodwork to tilt the scales in our election, and to put a nation that had suggested its desire to coup in the delegacy. With all due respect to him personally, I don't consider the likes of Joshua Sebastian, Exterior Minister of the LKE -- someone who posted 14 times at the time of his vote, versus thousands elsewhere -- to be someone who had a place deciding who our delegate was to be.

The Imperialist record of activity throughout Nationstates is exemplary, and I serve as Admin on 6 imperialist and independent forums with about 1.5 million posts between them, and to this day are averaging around 1000 posts per day collectively. Excepting 10KI, find me 6 defender regions that have achieved anything like that, over such a long period of time - and I'll drop my gameplay alignment tomorrow.

So, what you're saying, NES, is that you want us to exclude the best example of a successful defender region, and compare other defenders to your complete set? That seems awfully fair and in no way meant to put us at a statistical disadvantage.

This "debate" isn't about your alignment, and I'm not sure why you're trying to make it about alignment, but those numbers are ... great, of course, but not in any way unparalleled.

If they have 1.5 million posts in between them and average 1000 posts per day, like you said, then that flatly projects that they would reach 1.5 million posts in four year's time, to use the number that you've given.

1.5 million posts in four years isn't too shocking for six regions, let alone in that amount of time. Divide 1.5 million number by 6 -- the number of regions you're counting for -- and you reach 250,000, or the number of posts per region per four years. Divide that number by 365, the number of days in a year, and you reach 666 as the number of posts per region per every four days. And dividing that by four gives you 166 posts per day as an average among all six regions, which is certainly comparable to the typical defender region.

This also doesn't account for them all being uneven in their consistency, as some regions will certainly be more consistent than others. It's scratch math, albeit it's on par with the math given to justify your miscalculated suggestion of some sort of mystical activity boost that is inherent to imperialist governments.

[Milograd]

Quite. I was using him ironically as an example to demonstrate the sheer absurdity in making similar accusations about DYP and Harm in Lazarus. Neither are careerists, and I'd be curious to watch someone reasonably dispute that.

Well I don't think they're careerists either.

Then why not acknowledge that Rach is being unfair by implying that they are?

I have a lot of respect for you, McM, but I don't understand why there is a hesitance to acknowledge that fact directly. These sort of insults are the ones that Lazarus deserves to have more people speak out against, and until people do, nothing will change. I would assume you'd want the same for TNP, if it were ever put in this sort of situation.

It is just disappointing to me that relations between Balder and Lazarus deteriorated to this point in the first place. This really didn't need to happen. It should be reasonably possible for Lazarus and Balder to accept their differences and to simply keep an embassy open for the distribution of updates and cordial relations.

Lazarus does not believe in feigning approval for a government that it is not friendly with. When Rach and the Minister of Foreign Affairs published an international report attacking our internal policy, any pre-existing "cordial relations" were thrown down the drain. We were willing to work through it with Balder, but Rach's conduct in our talks -- which I have telling logs of, actually -- was the most blatantly passive aggressive demonstration of a disinterest in relations that I have ever seen. I really would've preferred to sort things out, but Rach had no interest in any sort of compromise.

We do not have relations for that reason, and I prefer an honest lack of relations to a false friendship.

The Riksraadet of Balder had agreed to stay out of the affairs of Lazarus when we met immediately after Feux had purged certain members.

Let's not phrase this incorrectly, as it contributes to the misunderstanding of Lazarus that is all too common. The Emerald Council removed the three members. Feux just used the ban button, because the Council voted for him to do so.

The Riksraadet had intended to keep relations open and to attempt to come to some reasonable grounds of dialogue and communication at the very least. We didn't see an immediate reason to close the relations. Ultimately, Lazarus would make that decision of their own accord.. and now we're here....

Lazarus' interactions with Rach were indicative of a complete disinterest in any positive or even cordial relationship. If the Riksraadet truly thought that, then there was certainly a disconnect between your legislature and your executive offices.

[Milograd]

Spiritus, Wintreath, Lazarus, TRR...anyone else got another two? =P

Global Right Alliance, Renegade Islands Alliance, Texas, to name a few.

[Milograd]

How are you even defining extremist? Are you trying to make it sound like we're Al-Qaeda or something?

From what I've seen on the forums from Funkedelia & V I Lenin, they appear to be extremists based upon their extreme views. Furthermore, people have been saying all the candidates are the same and I've seen enough of Funkedelia to know this can't be a good thing.

Thank you for answering my question.

Like I said, Kazmr might be the first delegate in a while not to move on to bigger and better things. It doesn't negate the point that nearly all of it's delegates have used the region as a stepping stone.

Yes it does. I refuted this point a mere page ago.

Are you seriously suggesting that Harmoneia used Lazarus -- a region which she has been in from back when its delegate had ten endorsements -- as a stepping stone for power in the UDL? Pass me whatever you're smoking, because that must be that dank ass shit.

Harmoneia didn't care enough to return to Lazarus when she initially returned to NS, instead moving on to the UDL. It's quite common for Lazarene leadership to hightail it out of there as fast as they can when other positions open up.

Whaaaat.

Harm did UDL on the side, and has remained in Lazarus for over a decade. And where did I hightail to? Where did DYP hightail to? You can't even name where most of our delegates have "hightailed" to, yet you insist that it's some sort of undeniable proof of your disgraceful argument that Lazarus is an invalid GCR.

Cerebella, former King of Balder, was recently crowned Kaiser of The New Inquisition, all while being the King of Albion and a commanding presence in the United Imperial Armed Forces. Surely you aren't suggesting that that sort of scenario differs from the ones you just (inaccurately) criticized Lazarenes for?

Yet his main nation resides in Balder & so does his WA. Whereas virtually all delegates in Lazarus' history have used the region to get ahead somewhere else as I have listed repeatedly.

So does mine!

You have repeatedly ignored that, and DYP, and Harm. DYP has served in the Lazarene Legion and now the LLA ever since leaving the delegacy, except when he has served as endorsee. Harm spent 4 months as an endorsee and has participated in the regional army. I have my main and my WA working on behalf of Lazarus.

I, DYP, and Harm all have our main and WA (unless doing army work) nations in the region. What are you talking about when you say "virtually all delegates"? Your claims are totally absurd and unfounded.

[Venico]

Quadruple post...impressive?

[McMasterdonia]

Well I don't think they're careerists either.

Then why not acknowledge that Rach is being unfair by implying that they are?

I have a lot of respect for you, McM, but I don't understand why there is a hesitance to acknowledge that fact directly. These sort of insults are the ones that Lazarus deserves to have more people speak out against, and until people do, nothing will change. I would assume you'd want the same for TNP, if it were ever put in this sort of situation.

I was responding specifically to criticisms about Cerebella. I hadn't read whatever was said about Harm or Dyp until you had quoted my original post. What fact would you like me to acknowledge exactly?

That I think Harmoneia and DYP are dedicated members of Lazarus? I don't think I've said or done anything to suggest that I don't think that. I've had personal disagreements with Harmoneia but we get on well. I've had very little interaction with Dyp. I think it's pretty clear that they're dedicated to Lazarus. However, I've also said before that I think it is sad that the longest serving Delegate of Lazarus was ejected by someone she had been friends with for a long time in the game. I wouldn't like to wake up in the Rejected Realms.

The Riksraadet is the council of state. A lot of things happened between that initial discussion on Lazarus and the closing of embassies. The purge I refer to is the banning of the members. It wasn't intended to be emotive language, simply as I saw it - the removal of members by the Delegate. If I legally banned multiple nations from TNP, I'm sure people would still refer to it as a purge.

[Solorni]

Harm did UDL on the side, and has remained in Lazarus for over a decade. And where did I hightail to? Where did DYP hightail to? You can't even name where most of our delegates have "hightailed" to, yet you insist that it's some sort of undeniable proof of your disgraceful argument that Lazarus is an invalid GCR.

Pretty sure Harm was full time UDL when she came back. If she was in Lazarus at the time, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed the accidental resignations from the WA and her comedic posts

I also haven't said that Lazarus is an invalid GCR, but as the sick old man of the GCRs, Lazarus has given the GCRs a bad name.

You have repeatedly ignored that, and DYP, and Harm. DYP has served in the Lazarene Legion and now the LLA ever since leaving the delegacy, except when he has served as endorsee. Harm spent 4 months as an endorsee and has participated in the regional army. I have my main and my WA working on behalf of Lazarus.

I, DYP, and Harm all have our main and WA (unless doing army work) nations in the region. What are you talking about when you say "virtually all delegates"? Your claims are totally absurd and unfounded.

I have not ignored yourself and Harm. You went on to become FRA AC. Harm had previously gone on to leadership positions within the FRA and only came back to Lazarus after she wasn't automatically given a position of leadership in Balder. It was pretty weird that she wasn't active in Lazarus when she came back into the game... but then as I've stated multiple times, it's been a stepping stone and not a home. Kay, I'll give you DYP. You have 1 delegate now

Feux ran back to the NPO so fast, I was wondering if Lazarus had some sort of bug problem. What's so bad with Lazarus?

---

The fact of the matter is that the Arch-Chancellor of the FRA who apparently also speaks on Lazarus' behalf was utterly unreasonable back when we cut relations because I had stated that members of Lazarus had been purged. But it was simply an excuse to attack Balder. Balder does not need enemies to legitimize itself as Lazarus has done.

[Milograd]

1) They allege Balder is the "worst" or 2nd worst GCR:

When did anyone allege that? I was speaking in terms of what GCR is best and worst for me, and a monarchy full of people who would like to see my region gutted certainly isn't atop my list.

Well, obviously this is a very opinion based rather than fact based assessment. I wouldn't expect two defender extremists to think too favourably of any non-defender region, and what a surprise, they don't!

It was an opinion question for personal preference, an unserious end to the article. Naturally it wasn't fact-based, since you can't answer that sort of question with facts.

That said, where would you rank them?

There seems to be little attempt to list the GCRs in order of the strength or activity of the native communities, or the number of people that regularly enjoy participating in them.

You must concede to being at least somewhat desperate if you're analyzing Uni's answer to a half-serious, personal preference question as though it was demonstrative of the ideals behind the N/D side of R/N/D.

It's basically an Old Boys Club for UDLers and FRAers.

Balder is basically a lazy resort for independents and imperialists. Explain to me the relevance.

Once again, it's funny this pair know so much about Balder considering they aren't even members of it. I can only point to the facts which show that Balder has enjoyed activity levels above it's historic average over the past 6 months, an achievement for any region approaching it's 3rd year. Indeed other than the Delegacy of Rach, which enjoyed extraordinarily high activity levels, Balder has never been in a stronger position activity wise.

The pair may not be aware of the Constitutional changes which have shifted a considerable amount of Governmental and Executive responsibilities to the Statsminister and away from the Monarch, but let's not let that get in the way of a good NES bashing. A wide variety of new members have joined during my term, and we have seen competitive elections for the Statsminister position and a very well equipped Government being appointed. Indeed, recently we have seen diplomatic progress being made, such as the implementation of ISRA which no doubt we will come on to next.

That still sounds boring.

3) The ISRA Treaty was "intended to keep Osi where [NES] wanted it"

The ISRA treaty was constructed with significant input from key Osirans and the purpose of it is to strengthen both Balder and Osiris. There is no one region above the other in this Treaty, and both regions have considerable areas of expertise to offer.

So, you mean to be denying that the ISRA doesn't restrict the flexibility of Osiris' military alignment? That Osiris could defend or liberate, or act in a military capacity contradictory to Balder's desires, if it pleased to do so in the future? And this wouldn't undermine the ISRA's integrity? For some reason, I doubt that.

ISRA is an equal and mutually beneficial partnership between two regions.

Seeing as the Jomsvikings have the least substantial military record of any GCR (I count six successful update operations since last summer), I'd venture to say that Balder's recognition gets a greater boost than Osiris'.

Indeed I find it very ironic that Milograd of all people chooses to criticise Balder for constructing a joint military... A top-down set up which allows him to exercise control over the military affairs of two defender GCRs, plus a number of irrelevant defender UCRs. I daresay I'm entitled to call you a hypocrite...

You're entitled to call me whatever you want, but if we're going to be honest, it's worth noting that I individually don't actually have the power to "exercise control over the military affairs" of FRA regions.

[Milograd]

It wasn't intended to be emotive language, simply as I saw it - the removal of members by the Delegate. If I legally banned multiple nations from TNP, I'm sure people would still refer to it as a purge.

Thank you for clarifying.

What fact would you like me to acknowledge exactly?

If what you're saying is true, it should not be too difficult for you to directly acknowledge that Rach's criticisms of Harm and DYP are entirely inaccurate and pointed.

I think it's pretty clear that they're dedicated to Lazarus. However, I've also said before that I think it is sad that the longest serving Delegate of Lazarus was ejected by someone she had been friends with for a long time in the game. I wouldn't like to wake up in the Rejected Realms.

Now imagine how Feux felt upon finding out about Vik's coup plot during his first month in office. I wouldn't like to be faced with that sort of threat and betrayal ever, let alone so early in my term.

I think it similarly sad that Sentimental Journey et al were banned from Osiris for disagreeing with a far more controversial government on the grounds of disagreeing with the motions made, but I also ask why you think that earns significantly less coverage, when Feux banned a nation that was known to be plotting a coup against a longstanding native government.

[Solorni]

If what you're saying is true, it should not be too difficult for you to directly acknowledge that Rach's criticisms of Harm and DYP are entirely inaccurate and pointed.

Lol, strawman alert. I never criticized DYP. Good job Arch Chancellor

[McMasterdonia]

It wasn't intended to be emotive language, simply as I saw it - the removal of members by the Delegate. If I legally banned multiple nations from TNP, I'm sure people would still refer to it as a purge.

Thank you for clarifying.

What fact would you like me to acknowledge exactly?

If what you're saying is true, it should not be too difficult for you to directly acknowledge that Rach's criticisms of Harm and DYP are entirely inaccurate and pointed.

I think it's pretty clear that they're dedicated to Lazarus. However, I've also said before that I think it is sad that the longest serving Delegate of Lazarus was ejected by someone she had been friends with for a long time in the game. I wouldn't like to wake up in the Rejected Realms.

Now imagine how Feux felt upon finding out about Vik's coup plot during his first month in office. I wouldn't like to be faced with that sort of threat and betrayal ever, let alone so early in my term.

I think it similarly sad that Sentimental Journey et al were banned from Osiris for disagreeing with a far more controversial government on the grounds of disagreeing with the motions made, but I also ask why you think that earns significantly less coverage, when Feux banned a nation that was known to be plotting a coup against a longstanding native government.

I fail to see how the OFO was a far more controversial government. They removed Sentimental Journey because he was still part of the former regime which was led by members of the Empire. If he had been allowed to return to the Delegacy it is fairly obvious where that would have lead. The Empire were a far greater threat to the Delegacy than Griff was. The so called Security Council had shown their true allegiance when they had tried to threaten the Pharaoh for gaining five endorsements for goodness sake. Sentimental Journey was involved in that.

I haven't read Rach's post about those two. If she believes otherwise then she is free to express her opinion. I believe that DYP and Harmoneia are dedicated to Lazarus. However I believe that a lot of the people who joined after the change of government were not dedicated to Lazarus. Over time those people left and activity returned to a more sustainable level. So the alleged high activity of the first few months would soon dip and level out.

Instead of activity coming from members who were also active in imperialist regions it came from defenders from elsewhere.

I mean, I've heard that there were coup plans and NES was involved but I don't recall seeing any solid evidence. The counter claim is that Feux had also planned to coup. The back and forth on that has been going on since the banjections and I don't see that stopping any time soon.

[Solorni]

The counter claim is that Feux had also planned to coup.

I personally find the idea of Feux planning anything to be a bit absurd. There is a reason why AMOM had to announce everything for him

[Milograd]

If what you're saying is true, it should not be too difficult for you to directly acknowledge that Rach's criticisms of Harm and DYP are entirely inaccurate and pointed.

Lol, strawman alert. I never criticized DYP. Good job Arch Chancellor

You did by suggesting that "virtually all" delegates hightailed out.

Just because you've been disproven doesn't mean that you tried to imply it.