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The United Defenders League

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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[violet]
Executive Director
 
Posts: 16205
Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:06 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:admins should try investigating what Afforess can and can't see with NS++, since he has openly admitted he's snooping on its users and his admission even caught [violet]'s attention.

This isn't really accurate.

NS++ is a browser extension. When you install it, your browser will say something like, "This extension will be able to see what you do on http://www.nationstates.net. OK?" And if you say OK, then indeed, the extension will be able to see everything you do here, including being able to read your TGs and pretty much anything you type in. So there's no need to investigate what Afforess can see; we already know the answer is "everything."

Whether you think installing NS++ is a good idea is purely a question of how much you trust the author, which is the case almost any time you install software. Although in this case, there is a somewhat heightened risk, since NS++ auto-updates, meaning that it might be fine today, but do something unexpected tomorrow.

Afforess seems like a good guy and has done sensible things thus far, like not actually collecting any info that isn't needed. It would be a serious violation of trust for him to turn NS++ into malware, the kind of violation that may be damaging for him personally, given his field of work, and arguably illegal. So you could feel reasonably safe with NS++. But if it did turn bad, there would be little we could do about it, since a browser extension has more power over your computer than a web site. It's a personal choice.

User avatar
Milograd
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5894
Founded: Feb 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Milograd » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:09 pm

North East Somerset wrote:Unibot:
I took a pledge not to use force for a political agenda, Belschaft. We couldn't do that with Balder, we had to establish a free and open constitutional convention because that was the fairest thing to do.


Bullshit and that's what you hate so much about Balder. It's proof that we don't need to be a corrupt and moralistic cult to build an active and successful region in NationStates. For as long as there are people in NationStates ready to stand up and be counted, and vote for what they believe in, independent democracy will live on and trump your absolutist clique every time. The power lies with the citizens, Unibot. Every citizen of Balder who ever joined us is important and voted is vital to the region.

Yours,
NES.

lol
Last edited by Milograd on Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Retired

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:15 pm

North East Somerset wrote:Unibot:
I took a pledge not to use force for a political agenda, Belschaft. We couldn't do that with Balder, we had to establish a free and open constitutional convention because that was the fairest thing to do.


Bullshit and that's what you hate so much about Balder. It's proof that we don't need to be a corrupt and moralistic cult to build an active and successful region in NationStates. For as long as there are people in NationStates ready to stand up and be counted, and vote for what they believe in, independent democracy will live on and trump your absolutist clique every time. The power lies with the citizens, Unibot. Every citizen of Balder who ever joined us is important and voted is vital to the region.

Yours,
NES.


Couldn't come up with your own response, so you copied mine? :P

You most certainly don't need to be corrupt and moralistic to build an active and successful region. Otherwise activity would be logically unattainable, since corruption and moralism are mutually exclusive.

If you're suggesting that democracy led Balder to where it is ... I would agree. The majority opinion in Balder had a different vision for Balder than I did. Where is this going exactly?
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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DWAsnia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 591
Founded: Dec 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby DWAsnia » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:17 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:Well that was a massive overreaction on the part of moderation.

I agree.

[violet] wrote:
Cormac A Stark wrote:admins should try investigating what Afforess can and can't see with NS++, since he has openly admitted he's snooping on its users and his admission even caught [violet]'s attention.

This isn't really accurate.

Afforess seems like a good guy and has done sensible things thus far, like not actually collecting any info that isn't needed. It would be a serious violation of trust for him to turn NS++ into malware, the kind of violation that may be damaging for him personally, given his field of work, and arguably illegal. So you could feel reasonably safe with NS++. But if it did turn bad, there would be little we could do about it, since a browser extension has more power over your computer than a web site. It's a personal choice.

Afforess is a good guy. He makes his coding open source so coders such as violet can make sure he isn't doing anything bad. If Afforess did anything bad with NS++, he'd be out of a job and never be able to get another in the field again. Using NS++ for evil is a stupid move, one that I'm sure he'd never make. I'd trust Afforess with everything up to my Social Security number.
<Acario> it is Drasnia's job to shit in people's cheerios On a self-imposed forum hiatus.

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North East Somerset
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Jun 11, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North East Somerset » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:28 pm

since corruption and moralism are mutually exclusive.


I'd actually disagree with that.

Couldn't come up with your own response, so you copied mine?


*coughs* What a load of bullshit.

If you're suggesting that democracy led Balder to where it is ... I would agree. The majority opinion in Balder had a different vision for Balder than I did. Where is this going exactly?


I suppose the point is that if you have no political agenda in the GCRs, what were you doing in Balder? Again, even in Balder, you aggravated relations with the FRA, when you tried to close Balder's Embassy with them for no reason. FRA being unable to have diplomatic relations with what was an emerging and active GCR would have been a blow to the defender cause, albeit only to the non-UDL part of it. So therefore, if UDL was purely about moral advancement, not serving your own political interests - then surely you wouldn't have done that? Can you answer that?
Royal Duke, Balder
Lord High Steward, The LKE
Honoured Citizen, Europeia

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:40 pm

North East Somerset wrote:
since corruption and moralism are mutually exclusive.


I'd actually disagree with that.


Your brand of morality is a strange one indeed if it allows for corruption.

what were you doing in Balder?


Being a citizen.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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North East Somerset
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Jun 11, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North East Somerset » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:44 pm

Being a citizen.


A citizen who chose to try and remove the FRA embassy and who eventually resigned in a tantrum after not getting your way. How did that fit into your moral agenda, Unibot?

Your brand of morality is a strange one indeed if it allows for corruption.


A very poignant statement for you to reflect on I would have thought.
Royal Duke, Balder
Lord High Steward, The LKE
Honoured Citizen, Europeia

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Calling someone what they are (A hypocrite and a liar) isn't flaming.

As per normal, the Moderators overreact to things in Gameplay (and then start exporting posts to 'stay on topic')
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Todd McCloud
Senator
 
Posts: 4088
Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:00 pm

[violet] wrote:
Cormac A Stark wrote:admins should try investigating what Afforess can and can't see with NS++, since he has openly admitted he's snooping on its users and his admission even caught [violet]'s attention.

This isn't really accurate.

NS++ is a browser extension. When you install it, your browser will say something like, "This extension will be able to see what you do on http://www.nationstates.net. OK?" And if you say OK, then indeed, the extension will be able to see everything you do here, including being able to read your TGs and pretty much anything you type in. So there's no need to investigate what Afforess can see; we already know the answer is "everything."

Whether you think installing NS++ is a good idea is purely a question of how much you trust the author, which is the case almost any time you install software. Although in this case, there is a somewhat heightened risk, since NS++ auto-updates, meaning that it might be fine today, but do something unexpected tomorrow.

Afforess seems like a good guy and has done sensible things thus far, like not actually collecting any info that isn't needed. It would be a serious violation of trust for him to turn NS++ into malware, the kind of violation that may be damaging for him personally, given his field of work, and arguably illegal. So you could feel reasonably safe with NS++. But if it did turn bad, there would be little we could do about it, since a browser extension has more power over your computer than a web site. It's a personal choice.


I don't mean to detract from the thread's original topic (if I am, I'll stifle myself here and open another thread in technical or something), but if the extension did happen to go "rogue", so to speak, is there a way of cutting the extension off from the website? Or am I reading into this wrong?
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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[violet]
Executive Director
 
Posts: 16205
Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:17 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:if the extension did happen to go "rogue", so to speak, is there a way of cutting the extension off from the website?

Not really, no.

User avatar
Charax
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1006
Founded: Apr 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Charax » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:53 am

North East Somerset wrote:Yeah, don't worry, each time I raid I make a donation to charity to offset the damage to my soul. :p

:rofl:
Unibot III wrote:Your brand of morality is a strange one indeed if it allows for corruption.

:eyebrow:
Minister of WA Affairs, Balder
◆◆◆

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:36 pm

The United Defenders League is pleased to welcome Pratse, Gnostra, Miracum-Izmir, Bojikami and Bvriania to its ranks! It's going to be fun working with you guys.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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General Halcones
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Sep 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby General Halcones » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:40 pm

Have you returned, Unibot?

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:49 pm

General Halcones wrote:Have you returned, Unibot?


Yep!
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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General Halcones
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Sep 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby General Halcones » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:02 pm

*cuddles*

User avatar
Beta Test
Minister
 
Posts: 2639
Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Beta Test » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:03 pm

A Black Riders general hugging the leader of the UDL? What is this madness?
Member of the Coalition of Workers and Farmers
Michael Ferreira: President of the Senate
Philip Awad: Former Secretary of Rural Development

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Wraith_FIN
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: Jul 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wraith_FIN » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:04 pm

General Halcones wrote:*cuddles*


*slaps Halcones*
Shame

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Minister
 
Posts: 2412
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:06 pm

Kinky.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
General Halcones
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Sep 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby General Halcones » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:11 pm

Meh, Uni's a friendly cuddly guy haha :p

It's a welcome back cuddle.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:47 pm

General Halcones wrote:*cuddles*


*cuddles* Thank you. :P
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Tim-Opolis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6197
Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Unibot III wrote:
General Halcones wrote:*cuddles*


*cuddles* Thank you. :P


I threw up a little.
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Author of SC#74, SC #203, SC #222, and SC #238 | Co-Author of SC#191
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The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:58 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
*cuddles* Thank you. :P


I threw up a little.

Glad to know I'm not the only one...
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
Zeorus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 519
Founded: Nov 01, 2006
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Zeorus » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:03 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:
I threw up a little.

Glad to know I'm not the only one...



The three of us could just form an anti-cuddling cabal to spite them.
רְעוּאֵל בֶּמ זֵוֹרֻס הַשֶׁטֶף
Veteran Assassin, Brotherhood of Malice

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The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Zeorus wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:Glad to know I'm not the only one...



The three of us could just form an anti-cuddling cabal to spite them.

:twisted:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Zeorus wrote:an anti-cuddling cabal



NPO? :P
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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