The United Defenders League

[Glen-Rhodes]

I don't see why you didn't just have him apply to be liaison, like all other liaisons have to do. If the UDL had a problem then, they could have privately negotiated a replacement, or you could have convinced them to accept the application. But no region has a right to just assign a diplomat to any other region or organization. Osiris requires its diplomats to apply. TSP does the same. I had to apply to all the forums of the regions to which I serve as ambassador. This is a common thing, and apparently Biyah didn't apply, and didn't leave the channel when asked.

It escalated unnecessarily, but Osiris has no claim to be angry when they just assumed they wouldn't have to go through the proper channels. How would you react if the UDL appointed me their Osiris liaison without asking you, and without me applying for diplomatic status, and I wouldn't leave the Osiris IRC channel after being asked? Let's be real, here.

NB: Speaking for myself.

[Mahaj]

I don't see why you didn't just have him apply to be liaison, like all other liaisons have to do. If the UDL had a problem then, they could have privately negotiated a replacement, or you could have convinced them to accept the application. But no region has a right to just assign a diplomat to any other region or organization. Osiris requires its diplomats to apply. TSP does the same. I had to apply to all the forums of the regions to which I serve as ambassador. This is a common thing, and apparently Biyah didn't apply, and didn't leave the channel when asked.

It escalated unnecessarily, but Osiris has no claim to be angry when they just assumed they wouldn't have to go through the proper channels. How would you react if the UDL appointed me their Osiris liaison without asking you, and without me applying for diplomatic status, and I wouldn't leave the Osiris IRC channel after being asked? Let's be real, here.

NB: Speaking for myself.

The UDL has attempted multiple times to have a replacement liaison put in the UDL instead, to no avail.

Note: Glen-Rhodes was not speaking for the UDL in his post, as he said
Note: In this post, I *am* speaking as Chief of the Band

[Tlik]

Erm what about The Black Squirrels?

They were a joke and never actually did a real raid.

They were actually what I was referring to, the point being that the UDL have never really appeared to be as serious as, say, any army anywhere ever. Essentially, to ask the UDL to reflect all characteristics of conventional militaries is a bit like asking a region to go and fine some landmass to inhabit because "that's what *real* countries do".

[Asuka Langley Soryu]

if the UDL had any ability whatsoever to behave like a respectable organization rather than a fun-house for children calling themselves defenders.

TL;DR: With friends like the UDL, who needs enemies?

if you keep attacking your potential allies, pretty soon you won't have any left

[Cerian Quilor]

They were a joke and never actually did a real raid.

They were actually what I was referring to, the point being that the UDL have never really appeared to be as serious as, say, any army anywhere ever. Essentially, to ask the UDL to reflect all characteristics of conventional militaries is a bit like asking a region to go and fine some landmass to inhabit because "that's what *real* countries do".

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[Tlik]

They were actually what I was referring to, the point being that the UDL have never really appeared to be as serious as, say, any army anywhere ever. Essentially, to ask the UDL to reflect all characteristics of conventional militaries is a bit like asking a region to go and fine some landmass to inhabit because "that's what *real* countries do".

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight

leeeeeeeeeeft?

[Ravania Prima]

>Unibot logs into irc
>suddenly udl wants rid of biyah

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

While it is true that Unibot logged onto IRC earlier that day, the discussions about Biyah had taken place in the days before, and the approaching of Biyah occurred not at the prompting of Uni, but rather the prompting of the lieutenant corps.

For the record, when I saw Biyah in our channel, I immediately asked Mahaj about it and suggested his removal as soon as possible, leaving the diplomatics and the timing to Mahaj.

[PrussianEmpire]

if the UDL had any ability whatsoever to behave like a respectable organization rather than a fun-house for children calling themselves defenders.

TL;DR: With friends like the UDL, who needs enemies?

if you keep attacking your potential allies, pretty soon you won't have any left

At one point you were one of those children Cormac. You attempted to become Leader of the fun-house.

[Captain Apollo]

You are calling the UDL un-diplomatic, while constantly belittling the UDL.
Despite the fact that the UDL did not belittle Osiris in the slightest.

I don't think UDL helped very much in Osiris' time of need, correct?

[Mahaj]

You are calling the UDL un-diplomatic, while constantly belittling the UDL.
Despite the fact that the UDL did not belittle Osiris in the slightest.

I don't think UDL helped very much in Osiris' time of need, correct?

Incorrect.

The UDL provided help, especially in the form of updaters.

When we launched a failed liberation attempt earlier, UDL soldiers were the ones who moved in the quickest and endorsed the fastest.

The UDL has a firm commitment to the liberation of Osiris. We hope Osiris will permit us to act on that commitment in the near future.

Note: I am speaking as CotB here.

[PrussianEmpire]

I don't think UDL helped very much in Osiris' time of need, correct?

Incorrect.

The UDL provided help, especially in the form of updaters.

When we launched a failed liberation attempt earlier, UDL soldiers were the ones who moved in the quickest and endorsed the fastest.

The UDL has a firm commitment to the liberation of Osiris. We hope Osiris will permit us to act on that commitment in the near future.

Note: I am speaking as CotB here.

Not entirely true. But I guess it was my UDL training that allowed me to move so quickly. Carry on.

[Sciongrad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

Even I'M willing to overlook all of the scummy shit that's happened with UDL in the past to achieve the current goal; that's saying a lot. I'll reiterate that I strongly believe that Osi cannot afford to alienate them or anyone offering them assistance right now. Snubbing them for refusing to accommodate a "persona non grata" is ... not reasonable.

There was no indication whatsoever that Biyah was persona non grata. He had been banned from the UDL and all access to it revoked by Unibot, but he was once again granted access as a representative of Sovereign Confederation by Acting Chief Solm after Unibot's resignation. Given that he was granted access already for SovCon, including access to their IRC channel to participate in liberations, we anticipated his assignment would be non-controversial. It was non-controversial for about a week, until Unibot logged into IRC a few days ago and Biyah was abruptly asked to leave the channel within hours of Unibot logging in. All of this without any consultation with the Osiran government.

In our view, we are not alienating or snubbing the UDL; they have alienated and snubbed us, through their (par for the course) un-diplomatic actions. We appreciate support from allied and friendly regions and orgs, but we can't put up with any level of disrespect they feel they can get away with just because we're in need of assistance. Real allies would not create issues for us to address while we're trying to fight a war, and indeed we've had to devote time over the past two days addressing this situation -- time that could have been better spent on the war if the UDL had any ability whatsoever to behave like a respectable organization rather than a fun-house for children calling themselves defenders.

TL;DR: With friends like the UDL, who needs enemies?

Listen, I'm not going to pretend I know a whole lot about gameplay, because I don't; in all candor, I don't care either. But from a totally objective point of view, you're really in no position to pick enemies with those who are trying to help you. If you're really the leader of Osiris' exiled government, it seems like Douria and Gatesville are going to be in charge for a very long time.

[TAO the Wanderer]

The solution is really very simple ... let someone other than Biyah take lead between Osi and UDL. Both sides then get what they want and the goal of overthrowing Dour Emb becomes more likely. Seriously folks ... this isn't Brain Science or Rocket Surgery!!!

[Mahaj]

The solution is really very simple ... let someone other than Biyah take lead between Osi and UDL. Both sides then get what they want and the goal of overthrowing Dour Emb becomes more likely. Seriously folks ... this isn't Brain Science or Rocket Surgery!!!

The UDL has requested this multiple times, and was refused every time.

[PrussianEmpire]

The solution is really very simple ... let someone other than Biyah take lead between Osi and UDL. Both sides then get what they want and the goal of overthrowing Dour Emb becomes more likely. Seriously folks ... this isn't Brain Science or Rocket Surgery!!!

The UDL has requested this multiple times, and was refused every time.

Lol Osiris needs help and they refuse to do it through the proper channels, and then they get all pissy when they dont get their way.

[TAO the Wanderer]

Then one of two things has to happen ... one side or the other 'gives in' or Osiris loses a valuable asset. I'd say you have done your part, Mahaj.

Of course, there is a third option ... Biyah could do the right thing and step aside for the greater good.

But, if I may ask, Mahaj ... who would you prefer as liason?

[A mean old man]

Biyah could do the right thing and step aside for the greater good.

Obviously this isn't going to happen.

[TAO the Wanderer]

But it might. Be patient.

[Mahaj]

Then one of two things has to happen ... one side or the other 'gives in' or Osiris loses a valuable asset. I'd say you have done your part, Mahaj.

Of course, there is a third option ... Biyah could do the right thing and step aside for the greater good.

But, if I may ask, Mahaj ... who would you prefer as liason?

I would be okay with anyone who does not have an anti-UDL bias.

[TAO the Wanderer]

Name two or three, if you would. Maybe they will see their name(s) and argue the point for you.

[The Dourian Embassy]

Then one of two things has to happen ... one side or the other 'gives in' or Osiris loses a valuable asset. I'd say you have done your part, Mahaj.

Of course, there is a third option ... Biyah could do the right thing and step aside for the greater good.

But, if I may ask, Mahaj ... who would you prefer as liason?

I would be okay with anyone who does not have an anti-UDL bias.

It is not bias if it is true.

[Karpathos]

Then one of two things has to happen ... one side or the other 'gives in' or Osiris loses a valuable asset. I'd say you have done your part, Mahaj.

Of course, there is a third option ... Biyah could do the right thing and step aside for the greater good.

But, if I may ask, Mahaj ... who would you prefer as liason?

I wish more people would respect the wisdom of TAO.

[PrussianEmpire]

But it might. Be patient.

Nope. Ain't happenin.

[Asuka Langley Soryu]

His arrogance won't allow it.

[Mahaj]

Name two or three, if you would. Maybe they will see their name(s) and argue the point for you.

I would, but I do not know the names of all the potential liaisons.