The United Defenders League

[Sovreignry]

The Osiran government also has stated that they did not agree with the content of Glen-Rhodes's posts and are citing his comments as a cause for them terminating our relations.

I would expect Osiris to shortly notify The South Pacific that Osiris-TSP relations are being downgraded, too, considering I'm the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP. My position there is more meaningful than my position proofreading legal documents in the UDL.

But you weren't speaking as the DMoFA though. You were speaking as ACoFA.

Obviously.

[Mad Jack]

>Rav leaks tnp stuff
>acting as an individual

>uni does.. well everything he did
>acting as an individual

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I could go on, but I think the point here is clear: either the UDL is so full of 'rogues' that it needs to get them under control or the udl endorses and approves of the actions and words these 'rogues' commit. Your choice really.

[Nivian]

UDL being their typical self is unsurprising, but this seems an inopportune time to press any such issue.

-Cerian

[Sovreignry]

>Rav leaks tnp stuff
>acting as an individual

>uni does.. well everything he did
>acting as an individual

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I could go on, but I think the point here is clear: either the UDL is so full of 'rogues' that it needs to get them under control or the udl endorses and approves of the actions and words these 'rogues' commit. Your choice really.

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[Mahaj]

>Rav leaks tnp stuff
>acting as an individual

>uni does.. well everything he did
>acting as an individual

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I could go on, but I think the point here is clear: either the UDL is so full of 'rogues' that it needs to get them under control or the udl endorses and approves of the actions and words these 'rogues' commit. Your choice really.

Surely you do not intend to claim that everything *you* say is the official word of Osiris.

[Mad Jack]

The UDL is not a region, it is a military. Have some goddam control over your soldiers.

[Cerian Quilor]

>Rav leaks tnp stuff
>acting as an individual

>uni does.. well everything he did
>acting as an individual

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I could go on, but I think the point here is clear: either the UDL is so full of 'rogues' that it needs to get them under control or the udl endorses and approves of the actions and words these 'rogues' commit. Your choice really.

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

You certainly have a problem with members who fuck things up and over.

[Sovreignry]

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

You certainly have a problem with members who fuck things up and over.

Every group has people that spout off. Ours just happen to do so in Gameplay.

Edit: GR also explicitly stated he wasn't speaking for the UDL.

[South Eastern North Western Prussia]

>Rav leaks tnp stuff
>acting as an individual

>uni does.. well everything he did
>acting as an individual

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I could go on, but I think the point here is clear: either the UDL is so full of 'rogues' that it needs to get them under control or the udl endorses and approves of the actions and words these 'rogues' commit. Your choice really.

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Amusingly this seems to be the line the AC is taking too - they can't control the actions of every single one of their members.

[Sovreignry]

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Amusingly this seems to be the line the AC is taking too - they can't control the actions of every single one of their members.

Speaking your mind is akin to forum destruction?

Fascinating.

[Tlik]

We can't control everything our members do any better than you can. GR is barely in any UDL channel and never consults anybody in the UDL about what he's going to say. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Amusingly this seems to be the line the AC is taking too - they can't control the actions of every single one of their members.

From which we should clearly draw the conclusion that the UDL are forum destroye-

Wait, what conclusion are we drawing from this again?

[Glen-Rhodes]

>glenrhodes continously talks shit about osiris and joins osiris with a clear outside agenda in mind
>acting as an individual

I've been critical of Osiris' government for quite some time, now. I criticized how you handled the Biyah I'm-just-highlighting-security-flaws coup. I criticized the Sepatarchy for their sclerosis in addressing those security flaws and generally doing anything. I've criticized the general tendency of Osirans to worship the Pharaoh and act in a generally cultish manner, always "Hail!"ing things. That has nothing to do with the UDL. It has everything to do with how I was treated in Osiris after criticizing your actions.

Also, let's get this straight. I didn't join Osiris with a "clear outside agenda." I joined because Earth asked me to after what happened with the Eastern Islands of Dharma. I wasn't active in regional politics for a few months after joining. You're obviously referring to my attempt to tighten up Osiris' citizenship and voting laws. I've long held that delegates have outsize power in the WA, that more votes for more endorsements is undemocratic. I've held that position for 4 or 5 years, now. I've also held the position that forum voting is open to exploitation and just compounds the undemocratic nature of WA delegates. Why is it surprising that I would try and get my new home region to secure the system and act in a more democratic manner?

You guys keep trying to find some nefarious motives for my actions, labeling them as some kind of grand UDL plot. First, the UDL isn't capable of executing, let alone planning, a grand plot to do anything with GCRs. Second, I'm barely a member of the UDL. You know that. Pretty much everybody knows that. There's a reason I'm not high in the military ranks. I joined the UDL when it first created because Unibot and I had a good relationship in the WA. He wanted me to get more involved in gameplay, so I joined up with the Native Rights Watch division, which is now defunct. I've participated in a few liberations here and there, but my only role in the UDL now is advising them on treaties in what's basically a glorified proofreading job.

So attributing the dissolution of relations between Osiris and UDL to my comments, as if I have any role in what the Lt. Corps (which doesn't actually like me all that much) decides, just goes to show how dysfunctional and incompetent the Osiris upper echelon actually is. You guys couldn't have possibly chosen a more petty reason.

NB: Again, talking for myself. I apparently have to include this disclaimer from now on.

[Tlik]

The UDL is not a region, it is a military. Have some goddam control over your soldiers.

It is admittedly a military that famously had so many references to vaginas that even Astarial was perturbed, supports an in-house raiding organisation, and has a (last I checked) Chief Lieutenant for whom his most-used line of defence when under fire over the Milo incident was "but I call for everyone to coup everything".

I mean, it's not exactly DADT...

[Cerian Quilor]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

[Mahaj]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

This is correct.

[Mad Jack]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

Although as a note, I was doing that long before there even was an official policy (hell, even before Bel coined the term 'bigameplayer'.)

[Ravania Prima]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

Although as a note, I was doing that long before there even was an official policy (hell, even before Bel coined the term 'bigameplayer'.)

*looks at UDL-memberlist*

Thanks for proving the point.

Oh and yes we are individuals, a merry band of defending individuals, and pretty good at it.

[Mad Jack]

Although as a note, I was doing that long before there even was an official policy (hell, even before Bel coined the term 'bigameplayer'.)

*looks at UDL-memberlist*

Thanks for proving the point.

Oh and yes we are individuals, a merry band of defending individuals, and pretty good at it.

Pffft. Unibot knew, approved of and endorsed it.

[A mean old man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

Even I'M willing to overlook all of the scummy shit that's happened with UDL in the past to achieve the current goal; that's saying a lot. I'll reiterate that I strongly believe that Osi cannot afford to alienate them or anyone offering them assistance right now. Snubbing them for refusing to accommodate a "persona non grata" is ... not reasonable.

[PrussianEmpire]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

Erm what about The Black Squirrels?

[Sovreignry]

They never supported an In-house raiding division - they let raiders who wanted to also defend in, and they ceased doing that ages ago.

Erm what about The Black Squirrels?

They were a joke and never actually did a real raid.

[Belschaft]

Erm what about The Black Squirrels?

They were a joke and never actually did a real raid.

The Black Squirrels are to the UDL and The Worms are to the FRA, except the Worms are way more awesome.

[Feux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

Even I'M willing to overlook all of the scummy shit that's happened with UDL in the past to achieve the current goal; that's saying a lot. I'll reiterate that I strongly believe that Osi cannot afford to alienate them or anyone offering them assistance right now. Snubbing them for refusing to accommodate a "persona non grata" is ... not reasonable.

I am going to quote this because I find it something worth reading.

[Cormac A Stark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

Even I'M willing to overlook all of the scummy shit that's happened with UDL in the past to achieve the current goal; that's saying a lot. I'll reiterate that I strongly believe that Osi cannot afford to alienate them or anyone offering them assistance right now. Snubbing them for refusing to accommodate a "persona non grata" is ... not reasonable.

There was no indication whatsoever that Biyah was persona non grata. He had been banned from the UDL and all access to it revoked by Unibot, but he was once again granted access as a representative of Sovereign Confederation by Acting Chief Solm after Unibot's resignation. Given that he was granted access already for SovCon, including access to their IRC channel to participate in liberations, we anticipated his assignment would be non-controversial. It was non-controversial for about a week, until Unibot logged into IRC a few days ago and Biyah was abruptly asked to leave the channel within hours of Unibot logging in. All of this without any consultation with the Osiran government.

In our view, we are not alienating or snubbing the UDL; they have alienated and snubbed us, through their (par for the course) un-diplomatic actions. We appreciate support from allied and friendly regions and orgs, but we can't put up with any level of disrespect they feel they can get away with just because we're in need of assistance. Real allies would not create issues for us to address while we're trying to fight a war, and indeed we've had to devote time over the past two days addressing this situation -- time that could have been better spent on the war if the UDL had any ability whatsoever to behave like a respectable organization rather than a fun-house for children calling themselves defenders.

TL;DR: With friends like the UDL, who needs enemies?

[Mahaj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

Even I'M willing to overlook all of the scummy shit that's happened with UDL in the past to achieve the current goal; that's saying a lot. I'll reiterate that I strongly believe that Osi cannot afford to alienate them or anyone offering them assistance right now. Snubbing them for refusing to accommodate a "persona non grata" is ... not reasonable.

There was no indication whatsoever that Biyah was persona non grata. He had been banned from the UDL and all access to it revoked by Unibot, but he was once again granted access as a representative of Sovereign Confederation by Acting Chief Solm after Unibot's resignation. Given that he was granted access already for SovCon, including access to their IRC channel to participate in liberations, we anticipated his assignment would be non-controversial. It was non-controversial for about a week, until Unibot logged into IRC a few days ago and Biyah was abruptly asked to leave the channel within hours of Unibot logging in. All of this without any consultation with the Osiran government.

In our view, we are not alienating or snubbing the UDL; they have alienated and snubbed us, through their (par for the course) un-diplomatic actions. We appreciate support from allied and friendly regions and orgs, but we can't put up with any level of disrespect they feel they can get away with just because we're in need of assistance. Real allies would not create issues for us to address while we're trying to fight a war, and indeed we've had to devote time over the past two days addressing this situation -- time that could have been better spent on the war if the UDL had any ability whatsoever to behave like a respectable organization rather than a fun-house for children calling themselves defenders.

TL;DR: With friends like the UDL, who needs enemies?

You are calling the UDL un-diplomatic, while constantly belittling the UDL.
Despite the fact that the UDL did not belittle Osiris in the slightest.