The United Defenders League

[Unibot III]

For the past year of your tenure as UDL Leader, its primary purpose had de facto morphed from liberations, to acting as a network for players interested in holding positions in the GCRs. You can try and distance yourself from that reality, but the truth is you blatantly promoted and encouraged it yourself personally Unibot. Both by personally engaging in it, and by appointing and empowering people who practised it. You ended up paying the price personally because of the damage to your reputation, but the UDL ended up paying the price too because it lost the ability to engage in this market which it had become reliant upon to motivate many of it's most senior members.

I promoted people who served the cause well. Someone like Hileville for example, you can accuse him of advancing his political career because he's been successful in TSP -- but joining us was a huge political risk in a neutral region like TSP. The only sane reason why he would join us was because he was a good guy and he wanted to help regions across NationStates - and he did. He was promoted to Chief because he seemed like the person with the most experience to be our Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs.

There's nothing sinister with that and I really hate that you and Cormac accused him of advancing a political career by joining us - he risked his political career to join us; for that I'm grateful.

[Solorni]

Unibot started the UDL To advance his career, nothing more.

Still on phone...

[North East Somerset]

For the past year of your tenure as UDL Leader, its primary purpose had de facto morphed from liberations, to acting as a network for players interested in holding positions in the GCRs. You can try and distance yourself from that reality, but the truth is you blatantly promoted and encouraged it yourself personally Unibot. Both by personally engaging in it, and by appointing and empowering people who practised it. You ended up paying the price personally because of the damage to your reputation, but the UDL ended up paying the price too because it lost the ability to engage in this market which it had become reliant upon to motivate many of it's most senior members.

I promoted people who served the cause well. Someone like Hileville for example, you can accuse him of advancing his political career because he's been successful in TSP -- but joining us was a huge political risk in a neutral region like TSP. The only sane reason why he would join us was because he was a good guy and he wanted to help regions across NationStates - and he did. He was promoted to Chief because he seemed like the person with the most experience to be our Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs.

There's nothing sinister with that and I really hate that you and Cormac accused him of advancing a political career by joining us - he risked his political career to join us; for that I'm grateful.

It's pointless trying to make this about one person or one scenario. The point is, that it's not a coincidence that in the last year your tenure, about half of the Lieutenants in the UDL were heavily and often controversially involved in GCR Politics. That you personally were exposed on several occasions, in multiple GCRs, for undertaking various uncouth activities, inevitably resulting in your resignation and withdrawal from said regions. Meddling in GCRs had become endemic within the UDL, and the networking element between members had become the UDL's primary activity and main source of power in NS Gameplay.

Once again, if UDL was really all about moral advancement, not your personal interests, you would not have aggravated relations with FRA defenders because you wouldn't have seen them as a rival or threat, but as fellow crusaders. And you wouldn't have expanded it into GCR Affairs to satisfy your thirst for power in NS Gameplay.

[Glen-Rhodes]

All people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay flock to GCRs at some point. It's nothing new, surprising, or sinister.

[North East Somerset]

All people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay flock to GCRs at some point. It's nothing new, surprising, or sinister.

Basically true. And you'll find the "people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay" are one and the same as the "people who want to advance themselves" whom Unibot said earlier had no place in the UDL. Yet they were regularly promoted. Thus, I can only reasonably deduce that Unibot is lying about political advancement not being compatible with the UDL. And that it was indeed a major consideration of UDL members.

[Mahaj]

Well said, Uni!

[North East Somerset]

Well said, Uni!

*facepalm*

Look, when Unibot asks you to support him because he knows he is losing the argument, I think he wants something more substantial than that, Mahaj.

[Cerian Quilor]

All people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay flock to GCRs at some point. It's nothing new, surprising, or sinister.

One of the most annoying things about the GCRs.

Though as someone who likes to think of himself as slightly important in NS Gameplay (and your key word there was think, not actually), I put lie to your claim of 'all', as if I never get involved in the GCRs in a domestic sense, it will still be too soon.

[Hesse]

Thus, I can only reasonably deduce that Unibot is lying about political advancement not being compatible with the UDL.

Of course he's lying. The UDL is a political organization (or at the very least, functions like one), no matter how much he denies it.

[Solm]

I think many of you are just babbling and putting forth your own opinion of what the UDL is without actually being in the UDL. The UDL is not chiefly about politics nor morality. People may join the UDL for moral reasons, but they keep logging on every day for the community. The UDL's community is unparalleled on NS, and its most important facet. The UDL is not just what we do at update, how many treaties we sign, or our most recent GCR mingle, but what happens daily on its IRC, in the community.

Unibot created the UDL for many reasons, trying to nail it down to one to fit your perfect image is inane. What matters, however, is what the UDL is now. And the UDL, first and foremost, is a community of defenders. NES and Cormac are right that the UDL has served as a platform for people wanting to advance their political careers. Yet, the salient feature of those people is that they left the UDL. The people who valued political power more than community or defending left the UDL. It does not matter that they served as leaders in the UDL prior to doing so. This phenomenon should be thought of as these people using the UDL to advance their political ambitions, not the UDL catalyzing their careers.

Yes, the UDL engages in politics. This game is a political simulation, everything is politics. That does not mean, however, that the UDL's chief aim is to be political and influence other regions. The politics is a sideffect. The reason why we became embroiled in GCRs is not because we wanted to control them, but because we wanted to further defenderism (a moral reason) and the GCRs were a main battlefield.

If I asked you, NES, who are the three most important UDLers besides Mahaj & Ravania, you would not be anywhere close. You would probably pick people who are the most active in the GCRs, or who are the largest power brokers. That isn't right, though. The most important people are those who liven up our IRC, chat about their lives, joke, debate why elixir is just so damn cool, or talk about politics (both RL and NS). This is not to deemphasize the defending aspect of the UDL. Our main goal is to defend the regions of NS, and we do a damn good job at doing so. Our community revolves around updates and defending, and the great bonds between members would not exist if we were not defending.

[Esternial]

All people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay flock to GCRs at some point. It's nothing new, surprising, or sinister.

Basically true. And you'll find the "people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay" are one and the same as the "people who want to advance themselves" whom Unibot said earlier had no place in the UDL. Yet they were regularly promoted. Thus, I can only reasonably deduce that Unibot is lying about political advancement not being compatible with the UDL. And that it was indeed a major consideration of UDL members.

I couldn't care less about this pseudo-political nonsense, and I'm (sorta) a member of the UDL. I just liberate/defend regions instead of donating to charity *nod*

[South Pacific Belschaft]

For the past year of your tenure as UDL Leader, its primary purpose had de facto morphed from liberations, to acting as a network for players interested in holding positions in the GCRs. You can try and distance yourself from that reality, but the truth is you blatantly promoted and encouraged it yourself personally Unibot. Both by personally engaging in it, and by appointing and empowering people who practised it. You ended up paying the price personally because of the damage to your reputation, but the UDL ended up paying the price too because it lost the ability to engage in this market which it had become reliant upon to motivate many of it's most senior members.

I promoted people who served the cause well. Someone like Hileville for example, you can accuse him of advancing his political career because he's been successful in TSP -- but joining us was a huge political risk in a neutral region like TSP. The only sane reason why he would join us was because he was a good guy and he wanted to help regions across NationStates - and he did. He was promoted to Chief because he seemed like the person with the most experience to be our Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs.

There's nothing sinister with that and I really hate that you and Cormac accused him of advancing a political career by joining us - he risked his political career to join us; for that I'm grateful.

Actually, that is quite incorrect. At the time Hileville became a member of the UDL TSP was largely under the control of defender politicians, first ex-members of the FRA - Topid (Delegate), Myself (Minister of Security), Numero Capitan (Minister of Justice + head of TSP intelligence), Hamer (Chair of Assembly) - and then members of the UDL - Myself (Delegate), Milograd (Vice-Delegate + Minister of Regional Affairs), Unibot (Minister of Justice). Joining UDL was certainly not a risk in 2011, when TSP was largely supportive of the organisation after the Devontians coup. In fact, Hileville has commented elsewhere that part of the reason that he joined UDL was that as a new NSer and TSPer he felt it would be a good way to gain influence and support in TSP.

---

Broadly speaking, NES' argument is an incredibly accurate account of what went on inside the UDL under Unibot's leadership. His analysis his excellent; it could be improved in a number of ways if he had more details from within the organisations higher levels, especially the old Lt.'s Corps from 2012, but even without that information he's addressed most of the major issues.

Solm is however correct that the core of UDL has always been the IRC channel #udl - without regular access to that you can't properly understand the internal dynamic of the organisation at large. There is/was an awful lot of politics and bickering at the higher level, but the vast majority of UDL members are simply what they advertise themselves as; people looking to lend a helping hand and have a fun time.

_{Edit: Forgot Hammer was CoA in the Topid administration}

[Solorni]

I think the UDL would be a lot healthier if it did away with its more corrupt and politically poisoning members like Unibot. Could you imagine a UDL that simply defended? I don't understand why it always has to be this evil empire thingy.

[People United Together]

What is wrong with you people? Why are you upset? You explicitly say you joined a GCR to gain power, then point at Unibot and say he is power hungry!

First, GCRs are nothing more than founderless regions that don't have to recruit. People join them because they get tired of having to recruit! That's it! There is no other universal reason!

Second, you over estimate the substance politics is made of. It is nothing more than hype and fear. To brag about political success in a GCR is to brag that you can juggle BS better than other people. My father always said that if you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bull. Politics revolves around demonizing the "other," and the UDL provided that. Recently it, was Nazis. Now it's the NPO and imperialism. Tomorrow, it will be something else.

Third, people joined the UDL for the same reason Unibot started it--to be rewarded for hard work. The reason why the UDL was so successful and well known was Unibot recruited his ass off and personally posted foreign dispatches in every single region with a forum. People joined because Unibot regularly rewarded hardwork with recognition and promotion, and told the whole world about it! To suggest he is some manipulating jerk who only wants to take over the GCRs is mind numbingly illogical. If Unibot wanted to take over a GCR, he would just do it. His personality and charisma naturally attracts people. The only thing keeping General Unibot from toppling a GCR is his resolve to defend.

[Solorni]

I never said I joined a GCR for power, I'd rather have rl power thanks

The problem is that unibot is a blatant liar and hypocrit about it.

[Esternial]

I think the UDL would be a lot healthier if it did away with its more corrupt and politically poisoning members like Unibot. Could you imagine a UDL that simply defended? I don't understand why it always has to be this evil empire thingy.

Whine whine whine.

Unibot puts a lot of work in this. He's the only one who actually contacts me for defending/liberation jobs.

[Mahaj]

I think the UDL would be a lot healthier if it did away with Unibot.

I don't understand why it always has to be this evil empire thingy.

Perhaps you could stop portraying it as one, then?

[North East Somerset]

Solm is however correct that the core of UDL has always been the IRC channel #udl -without regular access to that you can't properly understand the internal dynamic of the organisation at large. There is/was an awful lot of politics and bickering at the higher level, but the vast majority of UDL members are simply what they advertise themselves as; people looking to lend a helping hand and have a fun time.

I don't doubt that for a second. And indeed we can say the same about virtually any region or community. I find it entirely plausible that the majority of members are ignorant as to the true nature of their Founder. It was always designed that they should be. And I don't hold them as broadly responsible for the actions of their Organisation either. They are as you infer, honest and hard-working people trying to make a positive difference, alas ignorant to reality. But indeed that doesn't change the realities of what the UDL did, and what it was manipulated to achieve by its Founder and the Leadership which he delegated powers to. Again, I'm talking specifically about UDL under Unibot, not now, although he clearly maintains significant influence with Mahaj.

I couldn't care less about this pseudo-political nonsense, and I'm (sorta) a member of the UDL. I just liberate/defend regions instead of donating to charity *nod*

Yeah, don't worry, each time I raid I make a donation to charity to offset the damage to my soul.

Broadly speaking, NES' argument is an incredibly accurate account of what went on inside the UDL under Unibot's leadership. His analysis his excellent; it could be improved in a number of ways if he had more details from within the organisations higher levels, especially the old Lt.'s Corps from 2012, but even without that information he's addressed most of the major issues.

Yeah, I pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. At the end of the day, it would have been remiss of me not to spend appropriate time finding out about what goes on in what was one of the greatest influences in NS Gameplay in recent times (the UDL).

[People United Together]

I never said I joined a GCR for power, I'd rather have rl power thanks

The problem is that unibot is a blatant liar and hypocrit about it.

...he didn't call himself King of the UDL, but you call yourself Queen of Balder. Who is hypocritical?

If he tried to influence the GCRs, it was to save them from some threat he perceived--real or make believe. Again, if he wants a GCR, he needs only to reach out his hand.

[Tim-Opolis]

I never said I joined a GCR for power, I'd rather have rl power thanks

The problem is that unibot is a blatant liar and hypocrit about it.

...he didn't call himself King of the UDL, but you call yourself Queen of Balder. Who is hypocritical?

Except that hers is the title that comes with the democratically elected position as Executive Head of Balder. Unibot is more on an unquestioned deity who says to jump, and UDLers will generally ask how high. If he's the King, they certainly didn't vote for him

Again, if he wants a GCR, he needs only to reach out his hand.

I'd be interested to see the GCR that would let Unibot run it.

[Cerian Quilor]

Basically true. And you'll find the "people who think themselves slightly important in NS Gameplay" are one and the same as the "people who want to advance themselves" whom Unibot said earlier had no place in the UDL. Yet they were regularly promoted. Thus, I can only reasonably deduce that Unibot is lying about political advancement not being compatible with the UDL. And that it was indeed a major consideration of UDL members.

I couldn't care less about this pseudo-political nonsense, and I'm (sorta) a member of the UDL. I just liberate/defend regions instead of donating to charity *nod*

Because defending is totally the equivalent of donating to charity (now, I'd like to assume you're just being funny, but some Defenders actually seem to think this)

[Esternial]

...he didn't call himself King of the UDL, but you call yourself Queen of Balder. Who is hypocritical?

Except that hers is the title that comes with the democratically elected position as Executive Head of Balder. Unibot is more on an unquestioned deity who says to jump, and UDLers will generally ask how high. If he's the King, they certainly didn't vote for him :P

I respect Unibot for his contributions, and I've promised my support should he ask for it.

I couldn't care less about this pseudo-political nonsense, and I'm (sorta) a member of the UDL. I just liberate/defend regions instead of donating to charity *nod*

Because defending is totally the equivalent of donating to charity (now, I'd like to assume you're just being funny, but some Defenders actually seem to think this)

Hah! You give me too much credit.

Or not enough, I can't tell.

[People United Together]

...he didn't call himself King of the UDL, but you call yourself Queen of Balder. Who is hypocritical?

Except that hers is the title that comes with the democratically elected position as Executive Head of Balder. Unibot is more on an unquestioned deity who says to jump, and UDLers will generally ask how high. If he's the King, they certainly didn't vote for him

Kings and dictators hold guns to their subjects heads. Unibot just said follow me, we're save some regions and have fun doing it. To imply anyone can strongarm a mob to do their will is willfully ignoring the fact that the game does not allow coercion, only persuasion. Therefore ALL leaders are democratic, even founders.

I contrasted their titles to refute Solorni, because she is only calling him names. Seriously? Name calling? I thought queens were supposed to be noble.

Again, if he wants a GCR, he needs only to reach out his hand.

I'd be interested to see the GCR that would let Unibot run it.

If he applied himself, like any other current or former delegate of a GCR did, he would become delegate just as easily as they did. To say otherwise ignores his past success.

[Tlik]

...he didn't call himself King of the UDL, but you call yourself Queen of Balder. Who is hypocritical?

Except that hers is the title that comes with the democratically elected position as Executive Head of Balder. Unibot is more on an unquestioned deity who says to jump, and UDLers will generally ask how high. If he's the King, they certainly didn't vote for him

Again, if he wants a GCR, he needs only to reach out his hand.

I'd be interested to see the GCR that would let Unibot run it.

You missed out the most important part of that quote there, though. Unibot isn't in this for the power. That's why he was so happy to waste his political capital by meddling in GCRs. I mean, sure, everyone would like all the other regions to do as they wished, but you can't go around making that happen, can you? Why not? Because it's an ineffectual move that costs a lot of credibility. And it's also morally wrong, but we're assuming that the entirety of NS politics is utterly corrupt and devoid of conscience, which is a good assumption to make, right?

[South Pacific Belschaft]

If he tried to influence the GCRs, it was to save them from some threat he perceived--real or make believe. Again, if he wants a GCR, he needs only to reach out his hand.

The irony is that UDL, and Unibot in particular, once had a GCR - Balder - under their complete control, and a justifiable basis (finders keepers/first come first served) to establish it as their home region as a fiercely defender GCR. A number of UDL members, myself included, suggested such an action - Unibot refused. He was confident that he would be able to turn Balder defender via a democratic process in competition with the Independent/Imperialist sphere. We can all see how that worked out.

Interestingly enough, I managed to talk most of those UDL members who advocated turning Balder into the UDL home region into supporting Luxembourg. Several of them are high up the UDL ranks these days.