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Embassy of The North Pacific

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Warzone Codger
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Postby Warzone Codger » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:22 pm

14 hours ago: The Hoppy of Praeceps of the region The North Pacific cancelled the closure of its embassy in One big Island.
2 days ago: The Hoppy of Praeceps of the region The North Pacific ordered the closure of its embassy in One big Island.

Looks like OBI lives on for another day. :)
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:41 pm

Yes.
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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:56 pm

While I understand and respect TNP's decision (I mean, I can't actually claim Nasi has been active in many years) I'm probably morally obligated to express my disappointment or something. However, what I'm actually disappointed in TNP for is their decision to invade our long-time friends and allies over merely approving of a Security Council proposal that didn't even target TNP. I must have missed when that became an accepted casus belli.

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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:02 pm

They went for Nasicournia as well? I have no words.

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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:04 pm

Crazy girl wrote:They went for Nasicournia as well? I have no words.

No, Goober is talking about closing embassies.
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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:08 pm

Fauxia wrote:
Crazy girl wrote:They went for Nasicournia as well? I have no words.

No, Goober is talking about closing embassies.

This is correct. I don't care that much about the embassy. I would care a lot if we got invaded.
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:36 pm

Image

Statement on Anti-Fascist Quorum Raids


For years now, The North Pacific has consistently been an Independent region; one of the key aspects of our foreign policy has been that of anti-fascism. This has been and will remain an unwavering commitment.

The Confederation of Corrupt Dictators, a fascist region that one year ago were discovered to have attempted to overthrow our regional government, submitted a proposal to repeal their own liberation. This was pursued by their fascist leader in order to take measures to reduce their region’s vulnerability and provide more publicity to their region. Upon submission of the proposal, we undertook an unapproval campaign within hours to deny the Confederation the attention that they so desperately crave. The Confederation’s fascist history was specifically noted, as well as their violation of our regional sovereignty. A second unapproval campaign was later initiated. Furthermore, we noted the necessity of quorum raiding in order to deny publicity for fascism and reached out to authors who appeared close to submission in both chambers of the WA about the possibility of quorum raiding. At that time there were no other proposals submitted which were likely to meet quorum. We are unaware of any other regions making efforts to prevent this proposal from reaching quorum through counter-campaigning.

The NPA held off on quorum raiding for as long as possible until it seemed that if we waited any longer, it would be too late. As a matter of policy, quorum raiding is the last resort. On Major at January 17th, I ordered that the NPA initiate a quorum raid on the resolution. We attempted to minimize the amount of regions affected. Given the rate at which approvals recovered, on January 18th at Minor, the NPA initiated another quorum raid. This action was in the protection of our vital regional interests - those being our anti fascist values, and the simple fact that the Confederation and its interests remain hostile to The North Pacific. During this operation, the only action that the NPA carried out was undoing the approval of Delegates that supported a fascist resolution. We do not view regions as fascist for this action; however, the effect their approval has is clear. There was no posting on RMBs, no edits to WFEs or Flags, and no region griefing.

Unfortunately, a group of individuals from Libcord featuring members of a variety of militaries defended against these attempted quorum raids. During the update, an NPA Officer reached out to the Update Commander responsible (who is a member of the South Pacific Special Forces) and attempted to get Libcord to call off their operation. The Update Commander responded with apathy to the Confederation being fascist and demonstrated a disdain for diplomacy generally. Subsequently, The North Pacific attempted to determine which members of what organizations were involved in the operation. We aimed to establish what the policies were in regards to defending against an anti-fascist quorum raid. The Grey Wardens was one such organization. The Grey Wardens promptly informed us of their stance on these operations and reminded their individual involved accordingly. The North Pacific thanks The Grey Wardens for their stance and certainly harbors them no ill-will for their accidental involvement.

The South Pacific was another one of the regions involved. We reached out to their Minister of Defence in an attempt to open dialogue. Unfortunately, the Minister of Defence was not willing to engage substantively. We then appealed to the Prime Minister of The South Pacific in an attempt to resolve the issue; unfortunately, there too we were unable to have a substantial discussion. We will note that The South Pacific did agree with us that the Confederation is a fascist region. In both of these cases, the communication was shut down by The South Pacific. Following the lack of information, we made a statement on our own forum updating the region.

It should be noted that the NPA was not deterred and worked with the military of the New Pacific Order, Legio Pacifica in order to ensure that the proposal was prevented from making quorum. We thank them for their cooperation. We would like to note that due to the previous opposition from the South Pacific Special Forces and others to the anti-fascist operation of the NPA, it became necessary for more regions to be targeted in order to counteract any future opposition which could arise. Over the course of working to ensure that the proposal would miss quorum given the opposition that we faced at the Minor, there were two regions mistakenly targeted at the following Major. The NPA hit a region which withdrew their approval prior to Major but after the target list had been made. Upon realizing this mistake, we reached out to the affected region to apologize. Additionally, the NPA targeted a region allied to one of our allies, and while we reached out to the region through our counter-campaign telegram, we unfortunately did not reach out through other methods to attempt to get them to withdraw their approval of the proposal. TNP should have attempted other avenues to get this region to withdraw their approval, and have reached out in apology to this region affected as well. Ultimately, however, our quorum raiding at Major was met with no military opposition.

The South Pacific took offence to a particular phrase in the update that we made to brief our region—that the actions of the SPSF “sanction[ed] fascism”. The South Pacific then for the first time initiated contact with The North Pacific in an attempt to resolve the dispute they now had with us. Unfortunately, there too the communication quickly turned to an unwillingness to engage on the matter at hand despite our willingness to do so. The South Pacific instead turned to issuing demands of us. Nevertheless, we attempted once again to engage with The South Pacific to address the concerns that both parties had through a summit. The South Pacific once again re-issued demands prior to them being willing to discuss any matters further. The North Pacific had earlier offered the ability to resolve the issue without the escalation that The South Pacific has since chosen to take through their public statement on the gameplay forums and dispatch release. We continue to be willing to address any issues privately without making any demands of the other party.

We furthermore stand by our phrasing in the update. The SPSF’s deliberate and optional actions were protecting a proposal intended for fascist purposes. The Confederation has previously used resolutions submitted to the WA to draw attention to their region. This has been known and was emphasized to The South Pacific during our communication.

We have always been willing to communicate with our allies on matters that concern them. The North Pacific took a proactive stance in regards to The South Pacific and our concerns with their actions. However, in every single instance, The South Pacific has been the one to close the line of communication. Now, they demand an apology prior to them even being willing to discuss issues with us directly. Additionally, they canceled plans for a cultural event but unfortunately waited several days before informing TNP that they would no longer participate, leaving us to continue preparations unaware for some time. We are saddened that TSP has continually turned down options for communication and collaboration.

As Delegate, I waited in providing an update to The North Pacific about the anti-fascist operation that the NPA did in hopes that the SPSF were willing to engage. It is my constitutional and legal duty to disclose the nature of those such operations. In so doing. I said that any further action taken to prevent our anti-fascist quorum raids would be treated as a serious action against The North Pacific’s regional interests and security.

Despite the actions taken so far, we remain willing to discuss these matters with TSP should their attitude change.

The North Pacific will make no apologies for continuing to oppose fascism. We will make no apologies for our efforts to oppose and defeat this fascist proposal by the Confederation. We will remain committed to taking anti-fascist actions as necessary.

Image
McMasterdonia
Delegate of The North Pacific

Cretox State
Vice Delegate of The North Pacific

Praetor
Minister of Foreign Affairs of The North Pacific

Nimarya
Minister of Defence of The North Pacific

Westinor
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The North Pacific

Huks Gares
Minister of Home Affairs of The North Pacific

St George
Minister of Culture of The North Pacific

BMWSurfer
Minister of Communications of The North Pacific

DGES
Minister of Cards of The North Pacific

The Cascadian Bioregion
Minister of Radio of The North Pacific

Oracle
Chief of Staff of The North Pacific
Last edited by Praeceps on Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

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RiderSyl
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Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:35 pm

The North Pacific still has not provided any substantive evidence that CCD's reformation away from fascism since mid-2020 was fake, nor any substantive evidence that CCD is indeed still fascist. I will, however, provide evidence that at least one individual in The North Pacific is too personally involved to act objectively.

Delegate McMasterdonia, you are acting out a personal vendetta, shamelessly wrapped in the banner of anti-fascism. You stand on weaker legs than most know.

I infiltrated CCD with The Chuck, South Rein (a TNP member at the time), and others from January 2020 until April 2020, when I left due to concerns about illegal activity. The Chuck and South Rein mentioned multiple times in VC chats and chat logs that McMasterdonia (normally referred to as McM or McMaster) was also heavily involved in the group's attempts to infiltrate CCD, but in the shadows, similar to how Lord Ravenclaw liked to operate.

This is why during a January attempt to Commend Riakou, a CCD member that rebelled against Jocospor and ejected half the region in a 'Thanos Snap', there was mention made in the draft of "the TNP intelligence community". See this post by my SC author nation, Yokiria, which at the time explained its connection to McMasterdonia -
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=480439&start=25#p36685227

Unlike McMasterdonia, I can see the issue objectively. The CCD is no longer a fascist region, and Jocospor is not a fascist leader. If TNP's statement was based in reality, I would be supporting TNP here today. If TNP had justified their quorum raids through the CCD's breach of regional sovereignty in 2019, I would be supporting TNP here today. Unfortunately, TNP has decided to call a spade a club. We should call a spade a spade.
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McMasterdonia
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Postby McMasterdonia » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:03 pm

RiderSyl wrote:The North Pacific still has not provided any substantive evidence that CCD's reformation away from fascism since mid-2020 was fake, nor any substantive evidence that CCD is indeed still fascist. I will, however, provide evidence that at least one individual in The North Pacific is too personally involved to act objectively.

Delegate McMasterdonia, you are acting out a personal vendetta, shamelessly wrapped in the banner of anti-fascism. You stand on weaker legs than most know.

I infiltrated CCD with The Chuck, South Rein (a TNP member at the time), and others from January 2020 until April 2020, when I left due to concerns about illegal activity. The Chuck and South Rein mentioned multiple times in VC chats and chat logs that McMasterdonia (normally referred to as McM or McMaster) was also heavily involved in the group's attempts to infiltrate CCD, but in the shadows, similar to how Lord Ravenclaw liked to operate.

This is why during a January attempt to Commend Riakou, a CCD member that rebelled against Jocospor and ejected half the region in a 'Thanos Snap', there was mention made in the draft of "the TNP intelligence community". See this post by my SC author nation, Yokiria, which at the time explained its connection to McMasterdonia -
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=480439&start=25#p36685227

Unlike McMasterdonia, I can see the issue objectively. The CCD is no longer a fascist region, and Jocospor is not a fascist leader. If TNP's statement was based in reality, I would be supporting TNP here today. If TNP had justified their quorum raids through the CCD's breach of regional sovereignty in 2019, I would be supporting TNP here today. Unfortunately, TNP has decided to call a spade a club. We should call a spade a spade.
The status of CCD as a fascist region has not been any point of contention during these discussions about the quorum raids. The South Pacific also acknowledges that the Confederation is a fascist region. The fact that the CCD founder and delegate have attempted to shift their image to gain popularity once more should not be taken as a genuine effort at reform.

The fact remains that their region and leaders have harboured those with nazi and fascist views and maintained regular contact with such groups during the regions existence. I think it would take a fair degree of gullibility to accept that the region is now not fascist, considering it still has the same leadership and maintains the same sympathies that it always has.

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RiderSyl
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Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:19 pm

McMasterdonia wrote:The status of CCD as a fascist region has not been any point of contention during these discussions about the quorum raids. The South Pacific also acknowledges that the Confederation is a fascist region. The fact that the CCD founder and delegate have attempted to shift their image to gain popularity once more should not be taken as a genuine effort at reform.

Why? Because it robs you a chance at destroying the region you worked with Chuck, Rein, and I in taking down? My priority was to take down a fascist region. CCD is no longer that. I kept my eyes on the region and their community, to see if they were really changing. Once they were putting forth genuine effort, I made sure to watch to see if they had slipped back into their old ways. So far, they haven't.

McMasterdonia wrote:The fact remains that their region and leaders have harboured those with nazi and fascist views and maintained regular contact with such groups during the regions existence.

They ceased harbouring them. If you're going to quorum raid the repeal of their liberation because of their history, then say that. Don't lazily accuse them of being fascist now when that's not the case.

McMasterdonia wrote:I think it would take a fair degree of gullibility to accept that the region is now not fascist, considering it still has the same leadership and maintains the same sympathies that it always has.

You want to talk about gullibility? Who fell for the chat log claiming a CCD member "proposed establishing a fascist party with no pushback by CCD", when all it took was a few minutes to discover the log left out key context that showed the CCD member was talking about a fascist party being established in their NS nation and other members were telling them to ban political parties, including fascist parties? Was it you who didn't realize there was more context, McMasterdonia, or did you knowingly mislead others?
Last edited by RiderSyl on Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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McMasterdonia
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Postby McMasterdonia » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:40 pm

I don’t agree or accept that CCD is no longer a fascist region. I note that you no longer consider them to be fascist. But it is our position that they are fascist, The South Pacific also shares that view. Your personal opinion is noted, however.

As to the final portion of your post, I have no response to that as I haven’t the faintest idea what you are referring to.

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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:56 pm

McMasterdonia wrote:As to the final portion of your post, I have no response to that as I haven’t the faintest idea what you are referring to.

So TNP didn't cite the logs I described from December 2020 in the CCD Discord as evidence of CCD not changing? Funny, I doubt the NPO would lie about that. I suppose one of your officials just didn't tell you. If you're as slow as I am in learning these things about your own administration, McM, maybe you should let someone else be the Delegate of the North Pacific.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valerox
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Postby Valerox » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm

OOC statement condemning the recent positions taken by McMasterdonia and The North Pacific against the Confederation:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1496687

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The Cascadian Bioregion
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Postby The Cascadian Bioregion » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:35 pm

I'm glad to sign this statement, and that the North Pacific is taking measures that are needed.

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:43 pm

Seems like the CCD's happy McM's back :P finally gotten to updating those recruitment TGs yet?
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:44 pm

Valerox wrote:OOC statement condemning the recent positions taken by McMasterdonia and The North Pacific against the Confederation:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1496687


Lol TNP and TSP may fight for years over what methods are appropriate to deprive you of attention, but I think almost everyone still agrees that the CCD can go shove it. TSP's original cabinet statement very, very pointedly did not make any excuses on your behalf.

The spat is over whether raiding third parties to deprive you of a world stage at all is appropriate (I vote yes), or if you should be crushed at vote instead - letting you leverage this for sympathy was never an option.

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Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:13 am

You guys are making me feel like Copernicus trying to convince the rest of science that the Sun didn't orbit the Earth.

"Look, I understand why you think this, but here's why it isn-"
"EARTH ORBITS THE SUN, DON'T BE A FOOL"
"I've been looking into this a while, actually, and originally I was on your side of the issue, but the reality is-"
"NOBODY'S DEBATING THE EARTH IS ORBITING THE SUN."

I am debating it, and I'm right about it. You may have the majority opinion, but I have the facts. I believe the latter can still beat out the former.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:07 am

It's okay, TNP. You can say the name of that other region you "unfortunately" hit. You can express your dismay for attacking that other region without being afraid to say the name. You aimed to address it, so don't shy away from it.
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Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:09 am

TNP seems to be decidedly ignoring the fact that they have insulted their allies by publicly calling them out (when no comment was required) and framing their normal defending activities as pro-fascist. No attempts at hitting a high word count by regaling the minutiae of the discussions that followed is going to be an adequate response in the eyes of their allies.

TSP and others acted in line with their well-known beliefs that non-fascist regions should be free from foreign intervention by aggressors - no matter the reasons for that aggression. Previous administrations in TNP have appropriately and comfortably managed those ideological differences, the treaty allows for it, but TNP has sought out conflict when none was ever required in the first place. This is artificial drama that TNP could have avoided by simply reporting their successful quorum raid to their citizens (as they are required to) without commenting on the fact that a small number of defenders chased them into some targets on one out of three of the updates (which ultimately had no impact on the desired outcome of the operation).

TSP and others are right to feel unfairly targeted by unnecessary statements that clearly insinuate pro-fascist activity, when their sole focus was the protection of non-fascist (and in some cases historic defender) regions from unwanted interference.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:11 am

Goobergunchia wrote:While I understand and respect TNP's decision (I mean, I can't actually claim Nasi has been active in many years) I'm probably morally obligated to express my disappointment or something. However, what I'm actually disappointed in TNP for is their decision to invade our long-time friends and allies over merely approving of a Security Council proposal that didn't even target TNP. I must have missed when that became an accepted casus belli.

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Nasicournian Officer
Hello, you may have missed in your considerable absence that The North Pacific has changed a lot since you last graced us with your presence. In that time, one development that occurred was that The North Pacific government decided that when we were struck at, we would strike back. In January of 2020 we revealed an attempted infiltration and coup attempt by the Confederation of Corrupt Dictatorships of The North Pacific, and in retaliation, began to hit their embassied regions as part of a short and successful campaign to strike at this fascist region. Since then, The North Pacific has continuously opposed the CCD's attempts to fool the rest of NSGP that they had reformed. Nothing we see and nothing that has been presented to us, suggests that they have, nor have they reformed from the actions they took against our region. In light of this, it was quite clear to anyone who has been around at any point in the last year or so, that would oppose this attempt to repeal the liberation against them.

That opposition included, as a last resort, quorum raiding those regions who despite receiving our telegram campaign (there are some exceptions here that I'm sure our official statement will mention) continued to approve the proposal. It was deemed to be in our vital regional interests, and in the interests of opposing fascism, to ensure this proposal did not reach the floor. That is very much an acceptable casus belli for a military operation, and we invite you to visit our forum for further information, if you remember where it is, where you can find our initial statement on the matter.
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The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:When was The Moon an ally of The North Pacific?


I always considered the North Pacific to be a friend and ally of myself (considering I helped train the first iteration of the NPA, not to mention operation puppet master and general support and friendly relations over the years), and I thought the North Pacific thought the same of me.

I figured I'd move my reply to this here because it's of a similar vein to what Goobergunchia is saying. I apologise if you feel TNP has slighted you personally, given your previous association with the region, back before a significant minority of people playing this game were born, but The North Pacific has, for the past decade, operated under the assumption that the only allies we have are those with whom we have treaties of alliance with - or, at the very least, non-aggression or mutual recognition. If that wasn't the case, then we must've missed that memo.

Whilst I am sure in the past on a personal level the then leadership considered you and other regions a friend and ally, I feel it is perfectly acceptable to ask - what have you done for me lately? You cannot assume or expect a relationship with TNP where one does not exist or has ceased to exist many years ago.
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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 am

The least TNP could have done was try to avoid their nuclear option wherever possible. They could have shown some respect for their past friends.
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Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:35 am

The Church of Satan wrote:The least TNP could have done was try to avoid their nuclear option wherever possible. They could have shown some respect for their past friends.

This was what we did.
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Numero Capitan
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Numero Capitan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:01 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:I figured I'd move my reply to this here because it's of a similar vein to what Goobergunchia is saying. I apologise if you feel TNP has slighted you personally, given your previous association with the region, back before a significant minority of people playing this game were born, but The North Pacific has, for the past decade, operated under the assumption that the only allies we have are those with whom we have treaties of alliance with - or, at the very least, non-aggression or mutual recognition. If that wasn't the case, then we must've missed that memo.

Whilst I am sure in the past on a personal level the then leadership considered you and other regions a friend and ally, I feel it is perfectly acceptable to ask - what have you done for me lately? You cannot assume or expect a relationship with TNP where one does not exist or has ceased to exist many years ago.


Unfortunately being a formal ally doesn't seem to generate much good will from present-day TNP either though. There are more than a few people outside of the region who have contributed significantly to present-day TNP's success and the explicit disregard for them reflects poorly on your administration and the region as a whole in my opinion.

It is attitudes like that which will continue to generate increasing disagreement and disdain for the North Pacific and more Foreign Affairs headaches - and I don't say that just for the sake of criticising or as a threat but because I think it will negatively shape attitudes towards a region that I've always traditionally cared about and historically worked closely with. The North Pacific's Cabinet obsessing over their disagreement with the actions of the SPSF, semantics or the sufficiency of their diplomatic response unfortunately masks the underlying issues that will only harm TNP in the long run.

Don't be fooled by the voices cheering you on who would happily see TNPs relationships with TRR and TSP burn for their own interests or simply their own entertainment - this whole affair harms TNP too.
Last edited by Numero Capitan on Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:19 am

RiderSyl wrote:
McMasterdonia wrote:As to the final portion of your post, I have no response to that as I haven’t the faintest idea what you are referring to.

So TNP didn't cite the logs I described from December 2020 in the CCD Discord as evidence of CCD not changing? Funny, I doubt the NPO would lie about that. I suppose one of your officials just didn't tell you. If you're as slow as I am in learning these things about your own administration, McM, maybe you should let someone else be the Delegate of the North Pacific.

A somewhat casual conversation conducted between two people privately, unless explicitly stated otherwise, is not representative of the NPO itself speaking. Lie, no, but I also never said McM himself cited those, Syl. I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't been shared all around before that since they are weak as definitive indicators of an unchangingly fascist community.

As for CCD's fascism, that log was cited by someone, but it certainly wasn't used by the TNP government itself to justify their decision. I'm personally willing to give CCD their chance to change in terms of fascism, but at the same time, the onus is on them to do so without pitching a fit when the region they attempted to coup is still unwilling to believe their genuineness. That grave they dug themselves, and they're going to have to demonstrate that sincerity in a way that is acknowledged by a majority of people.

If any region can understand what it's like to have sincere changes doubted by the region(s) that were impacted by unfortunate decisions made in the past, it's TP. But as a result, we also know that every little thing that happens being used as evidence of not changing is just a part of recovering what was lost. The road to rehabilitating a region from a place of absolute disgrace is not an easy one, but it is doable. CCD's job is to persevere in that and prove to the region they attempted to harm that this is sincere. Persevering in the face of doubt is just a normal aspect of rehabilitation.

TNP is entitled to disbelieve CCD insofar as they consider the evidence of change insufficient, and CCD is responsible for proving otherwise. Will it be easy? Absolutely not. But if you're sincere about change, continuing backlash from the regions which took harm because of your actions is to be expected and will not stop that change from taking place. Will this be easy for CCD? No. But if they really mean it, it's possible to demonstrate that genuineness even in the face of hard opposition.
Last edited by Xoriet on Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jocospor
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Postby Jocospor » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:25 am

I'll be brief because I do think the conversation should now largely concern TNP's mistreatment of its treatied friends and regional partners. Everything Xoriet has said is admirable and she and I have been in private correspondence too, so I am assured we're on the same page.

But I think we're all kidding ourselves if we believe TNP solely objects to CCD because of our covert operations in whenever that was. There is some kind of deeper hatred here, one that I cannot accurately articulate, and one that seems unique to TNP. TNP, if you perceive that CCD and/or I have wronged you in some other unique way, then I am sorry, and I would be committed to working through it with you, just as I would be committed to working through all things related to Operation 84.
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