Embassy of The North Pacific

[Dreadton]

How about yall move the conversation about NSToday to their thread?

[Imperium of Josh]

How about yall move the conversation about NSToday to their thread?

I must say I was just excited to get a mention for once

[Syberis]

I guess NST's favoritism for TWP explains why our delegate transition last November, various monthly festivals, and the latest treaty ratification were all so exhaustively covered.

Obviously it’s not favoritism for TWP per se, rather favoritism for people within this gameplay social circle, of which more TWPers tend to be influential members of than other regions. I’m sure there are influential members of TWP who NST has seemingly never heard of, and I’d be interested to here them.

Additionally, lack of coverage does not mean bias. It just means that the writers aren’t interested in writing on it. It would mean bias if the administration weren’t encouraging coverage of certain regions, but Wym made it clear they want more coverage of TWP earlier. Bias towards regions like TWP is reflected wherever NST’s opinion shows: i.e. the podcasts and Power20.

If you want to claim that the Power20 isn’t biased, you’re actually suggesting that TWPers and Osirans (among other regions) are actually more influential (and therefore likely more competent) in gameplay than people from regions like TNP. That’s because something has to be accurate to not be biased.

Considering TNP doesn't do as much as they could to actually engage the wider game, odds are the general GPer outside of TNP's specific sphere hears about individual people in TNP and simply asks "Who?"

That would be indicative a lack of influence over the general GP environment. You're acting like there's a major insult being given here when instead it's a whole bunch of salt over a listicle. It's one step up from a buzzfeed quiz on the list of "things one shouldn't get all that mad about unless it's deliberately made to insult them."

[Bormiar]

Obviously it’s not favoritism for TWP per se, rather favoritism for people within this gameplay social circle, of which more TWPers tend to be influential members of than other regions. I’m sure there are influential members of TWP who NST has seemingly never heard of, and I’d be interested to here them.

Additionally, lack of coverage does not mean bias. It just means that the writers aren’t interested in writing on it. It would mean bias if the administration weren’t encouraging coverage of certain regions, but Wym made it clear they want more coverage of TWP earlier. Bias towards regions like TWP is reflected wherever NST’s opinion shows: i.e. the podcasts and Power20.

If you want to claim that the Power20 isn’t biased, you’re actually suggesting that TWPers and Osirans (among other regions) are actually more influential (and therefore likely more competent) in gameplay than people from regions like TNP. That’s because something has to be accurate to not be biased.

Considering TNP doesn't do as much as they could to actually engage the wider game, odds are the general GPer outside of TNP's specific sphere hears about individual people in TNP and simply asks "Who?"

That would be indicative a lack of influence over the general GP environment. You're acting like there's a major insult being given here when instead it's a whole bunch of salt over a listicle. It's one step up from a buzzfeed quiz on the list of "things one shouldn't get all that mad about unless it's deliberately made to insult them."

I don’t think you realize that the whole point behind the article was that the average TNPer doesn’t get involved in this NSGP social circle, so they aren’t as represented. That doesn’t encompass the general gameplay environment, and Bran likely knows that. I may have been wrong to suggest that he may consider TNPers to be less competent though.

I think when I was a governor I subtly made fun of them by suggesting that they do more list-style articles. However, they take themselves seriously, and clearly others take them seriously. Else they wouldn’t have all those panelists and people wouldn’t put up such a defense of the admins’ pinning the Power20 in the NSGP server. Believe me, I would love if everyone treated this list as you do.

And it’s more than just a list. The entire org is biased.

[Syberis]

I don’t think you realize that the whole point behind the article was that the average TNPer doesn’t get involved in this NSGP social circle, so they aren’t as represented. That doesn’t encompass the general gameplay environment, and Bran likely knows that. I may have been wrong to suggest that he may consider TNPers to be less competent though.

I think when I was a governor I subtly made fun of them by suggesting that they do more list-style articles. However, they take themselves seriously, and clearly others take them seriously. Else they wouldn’t have all those panelists and people wouldn’t put up such a defense of the admins’ pinning the Power20 in the NSGP server. Believe me, I would love if everyone treated this list as you do.

And it’s more than just a list. The entire org is biased.

They aren't as represented because they aren't as generally influential over NSGP. That's the point I'm trying to make, and the one I don't think you get. TNP isn't something that most players actually weigh when they do anything specifically outside of WA affairs, and even then... it's more as a Big Number^TM and less as traditional political influence.

This whole article is basically an angry rant that TNPers were excluded. It's not something that one would expect from a region with political influence, and the general lack of agreement and open apathy basically proves that the article's argument, which hinges around TNP being this influential region to the greater GP sphere, just isn't the case on the international scale anymore. I can count on one hand the number of truly influential TNPers over the last 4 years, and the second most prominent of those is currently banned from TNP and has been for some time.

By all means, TNP, step up and prove me wrong here, it would be great to see y'all again.

[Tim-Opolis]

Bormiar, I'd like to consider myself pretty tuned in to Gameplay all-in-all, and I still consistently have to ask ask people on the side to remind me who you.

The "NSGP Social Circle" that people so often go on about ultimately holds a significant amount of influence, and considering how ultimately non-exclusive that diplomatic hub is, it very much does tend to encompass a significant portion of the Gameplay environment. While there's certainly groups and people more active there than others, they also frequently use the connections made there to further overall IC goals. Mind you, the list isn't infallible (and the most recent version did have some questionable picks), but I don't think there's any particular bias against The North Pacific rather than the simple reality that The North Pacific's people don't get out much.

[Bormiar]

I don’t think you realize that the whole point behind the article was that the average TNPer doesn’t get involved in this NSGP social circle, so they aren’t as represented. That doesn’t encompass the general gameplay environment, and Bran likely knows that. I may have been wrong to suggest that he may consider TNPers to be less competent though.

I think when I was a governor I subtly made fun of them by suggesting that they do more list-style articles. However, they take themselves seriously, and clearly others take them seriously. Else they wouldn’t have all those panelists and people wouldn’t put up such a defense of the admins’ pinning the Power20 in the NSGP server. Believe me, I would love if everyone treated this list as you do.

And it’s more than just a list. The entire org is biased.

They aren't as represented because they aren't as generally influential over NSGP. That's the point I'm trying to make, and the one I don't think you get. TNP isn't something that most players actually weigh when they do anything specifically outside of WA affairs, and even then... it's more as a Big Number^TM and less as traditional political influence.

This whole article is basically an angry rant that TNPers were excluded. It's not something that one would expect from a region with political influence, and the general lack of agreement and open apathy basically proves that the article's argument, which hinges around TNP being this influential region to the greater GP sphere, just isn't the case on the international scale anymore. I can count on one hand the number of truly influential TNPers over the last 4 years, and the second most prominent of those is currently banned from TNP and has been for some time.

By all means, TNP, step up and prove me wrong here, it would be great to see y'all again.

You don’t have to agree that GP is more than just your social circle, but NSToday does. Wymondham is currently trying to form a committee (the bureaucracy really makes you roll your eyes) ostensibly to diversify NSToday or whatever. Not something that you’d be interested in, but NST wants to say that it is focused on the general gameplay sphere. I understand your point that TNP players generally aren’t as involved in NSGP, if we have the same idea of NSGP. If something like the Gameplay Magazine from Escade were to publish a list without a single TNPer on it, I would be fine with it. But NSToday doesn’t brand itself as an NSGP newspaper, judging by the PR director’s actions.

“The lack of commentary proves that TNP isn’t influential”. Are you sore from stretching that much? That could mean general agreement, or pure apathy to the Power20. You deemed it a listicle. That’s apathy towards the Power20, not TNP.

I find it ironic that you would show up late to a gameplay discussion and then condescend TNP about being irrelevant. And that you only showed up to bandwagon with Bran.

Bormiar, I'd like to consider myself pretty tuned in to Gameplay all-in-all, and I still consistently have to ask ask people on the side to remind me who you.

The "NSGP Social Circle" that people so often go on about ultimately holds a significant amount of influence, and considering how ultimately non-exclusive that diplomatic hub is, it very much does tend to encompass a significant portion of the Gameplay environment. While there's certainly groups and people more active there than others, they also frequently use the connections made there to further overall IC goals. Mind you, the list isn't infallible (and the most recent version did have some questionable picks), but I don't think there's any particular bias against The North Pacific rather than the simple reality that The North Pacific's people don't get out much.

Thats an odd ad hominem, given that I neither believe nor called myself influential. If you needed to ask people to remind you who Prydania is, that night fit the discussion. It would also make you ignorant.

Your point is something to consider, but off of hard power alone, TNP crushes any other region. Some GPers are always whining about WALL, and I’m sure you know how often an empty promise to emulate WALL is put in a campaign by an NSGPer. Examples: Qvait in TSP, Cormac in Thalassia. The military is also massive. As for social influence, TNP is gigantic, and it’s values are spread to lots and lots of players. Just because it doesn’t appear in your circle doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. So I’m not inclined to believe it’s as irrelevant as NST generally treats it.

[Syberis]

You're currently defending this tantrum of an article, and aggressively attempting to stand up for TNP's honor, which says a lot about how much influence they have. You are the peak of TNP influence in regards to this dilemma and, frankly, if you were involved in a government I was hypothetically running you would have been censured harshly for your behavior, as it looks terrible for the region. Any region that has to act in such a demeaning way to demand respect is one with not as much influence over the goings-on of this game as they think.

Real powers don't complain that people aren't recognizing their power. If the list was false, a strong power would merely joke about it and move on.

[United Federated States of Omega]

Bias towards regions like TWP is reflected wherever NST’s opinion shows: i.e. the podcasts and Power20.

Glad to see you listen to the podcast and thanks for telling those you know about it!

[Bormiar]

You're currently defending this tantrum of an article, and aggressively attempting to stand up for TNP's honor, which says a lot about how much influence they have. You are the peak of TNP influence in regards to this dilemma and, frankly, if you were involved in a government I was hypothetically running you would have been censured harshly for your behavior, as it looks terrible for the region. Any region that has to act in such a demeaning way to demand respect is one with not as much influence over the goings-on of this game as they think.

Real powers don't complain that people aren't recognizing their power. If the list was false, a strong power would merely joke about it and move on.

The hatred for TNP behind this post is so palpable that I can feel it. First, you made a gross generalization about human nature with no basis in fact:

You're currently defending this tantrum of an article, and aggressively attempting to stand up for TNP's honor, which says a lot about how much influence they have.

Real powers don't complain that people aren't recognizing their power. If the list was false, a strong power would merely joke about it and move on.

What authority do you have to say that defending your opinion makes you guilty of being wrong? Do you realize how that invalidates your entire argument? I could just as well say "If you were correct, you would just laugh at my post and move on" or "You aggressively attacking my article shows how desperate you are to invalidate it, because you're afraid that it's true". But I'm not going to say that, because I'm not going to pretend to be a psychiatrist diagnosing you. It's beneath you to become an armchair psychiatrist.

And to be honest, the generalizations give me flashbacks to emotionally arguing with my not-much-older brother when I was 8.

Second, you pushed in an irrelevant insult to TNP's belief in freedom of speech (I suspect you wouldn't be very happy with censorship if an Osiran told you to stop straw-manning TNP, or maybe if you were censored in real life).

You are the peak of TNP influence in regards to this dilemma and, frankly, if you were involved in a government I was hypothetically running you would have been censured harshly for your behavior, as it looks terrible for the region.

This really shows that your motivation here is just to insult TNP, which bares little relevance to this discussion.

Third, you attributed my own opinion to TNP's.

Any region that has to act in such a demeaning way to demand respect is one with not as much influence over the goings-on of this game as they think.

This seems to be common among NSGPers with ill-informed arguments and an agenda (it's technically the dynanmic duo of guilt by association and ad hominem, but I don't think you trouble yourself with making a logical argument).

So continuing to refute these baseless claims is a waste of my time. I feel like I'm knocking down a house of cards which perpetually rebuilds itself.

So I'll just leave you with this:

Lots of players avoid these forums and the "gameplay" discord because of this. If you think that makes them powerless, fine. But it just makes them wise.

[Syberis]

I'm going to go past the more angry parts of these arguments to the basic ignorant claims. Frankly, I don't care enough whether you give my arguments weight or think they're free of fallacy. Sorry.

If the Osiran government told me to shut up, then I'd shut up, happily. Rigel knows where to find me and I'm more than willing to be censured when I make trouble for Osiris. However, I'm merely a retired ex-del, and most importantly, I don't use Osiris as a platform for my grandstanding. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean that one isn't making a PR joke.

Second, I don't hate TNP. In fact, I think the region is a good example of what this game can accomplish when it comes to a secure democracy, and is the counterpoint to almost every claim that Democracy is impossible in this game, including my own historic arguments. What I do hate is Miniluv-esque complaining dressed up as a journalistic critique of another media outlet coming from such an esteemed region. Your media isn't run by Cormac, don't act like it is. Be better than that.

Third, to have GP influence, one must interact with GP, surprisingly. Refusing to engage with it means one doesn't have influence, as they can't... Influence anything? Outside the WA. I'll grant you that you have the ability to impact nation stats and give people shiny badges, that's a good point you made earlier. What would we do without that.

Fourth, the statement that you're the peak of TNP involvement is a statement of fact. You're the only one here. Nobody else is as involved in this thread as you. It's not an insult to TNP to state a fact.

You're not doing yourself any favors responding to an armchair nobody, honestly.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

So, how did everyone like our interview with TEP delegate Libertany?

[Syberis]

So, how did everyone like our interview with TEP delegate Libertany?

Loved it! Good work honestly. I'm not as engaged in TEP as some, so it was enlightening and enjoyable to an outsider.

[Gorundu]

Third, to have GP influence, one must interact with GP, surprisingly. Refusing to engage with it means one doesn't have influence, as they can't... Influence anything? Outside the WA. I'll grant you that you have the ability to impact nation stats and give people shiny badges, that's a good point you made earlier. What would we do without that.

Fourth, the statement that you're the peak of TNP involvement is a statement of fact. You're the only one here. Nobody else is as involved in this thread as you. It's not an insult to TNP to state a fact.

You're not doing yourself any favors responding to an armchair nobody, honestly.

Because involvement in Gameplay is talking in the Gameplay forums and Discord, and not, like, actual gameplay such as R/D, WA, or interregional diplomacy, of course.

So, how did everyone like our interview with TEP delegate Libertany?

Wow u don't care about Europe smh

[RiderSyl]

Because involvement in Gameplay is talking in the Gameplay forums and Discord, and not, like, actual gameplay such as R/D, WA, or interregional diplomacy, of course.

ah yes the infamous inter-regional diplomat gameplayers, how dare we forget them

[Syberis]

Tell you what, I'll grant you guys the benefit of the doubt.

What specific TNPers are top-20 influential to the greater GP world? I haven't actually seen a suggestion, and I can think of one or two at most, and even then, frankly, it's a matter of some debate among the GP community, and I'm saying this about someone I consider a friend. If people believe TNP was robbed, then obviously there are individuals people think should have been there. There should be some utter slam-dunks people are forgetting.

[Drop Your Pants]

ah yes the infamous inter-regional diplomat gameplayers, how dare we forget them

That's how i started into GP. Now i'm a highly influential GP Elite lazy old twit.

[Dendarii Mercenaries]

Considering TNP doesn't do as much as they could to actually engage the wider game

but I don't think there's any particular bias against The North Pacific rather than the simple reality that The North Pacific's people don't get out much.

Wrong. Wrong.

I see consistently and interact or others with people from both TNP and TWP quite often outside both's region/offsite. Can't say the same for Osiris which I have nothing to do with region/offsite. This does not mean Osirans do not interact or are not known well abroad, but neither does that also apply to TNP. Because on the other hand, someone can be in the exact reverse position as mine with TNP and Osiris and from that perspective assume that TNP is exactly as Syberis/Tim states while I would see them as wrong and say it's Osiris instead that is that and not TNP. But I know better then to assume Osirans are not out and about.

[RiderSyl]

Considering TNP doesn't do as much as they could to actually engage the wider game

but I don't think there's any particular bias against The North Pacific rather than the simple reality that The North Pacific's people don't get out much.

Wrong. Wrong.

I see consistently and interact or others with people from both TNP and TWP quite often outside both's region/offsite. Can't say the same for Osiris which I have nothing to do with region/offsite. This does not mean Osirans do not interact or are not known well abroad, but neither does that also apply to TNP. Because on the other hand, someone can be in the exact reverse position as mine with TNP and Osiris and from that perspective assume that TNP is exactly as Syberis/Tim states while I would see them as wrong and say it's Osiris instead that is that and not TNP. But I know better then to assume Osirans are not out and about.

cool then name a TNPer that got snubbed from the Power20

[Dendarii Mercenaries]

Wrong. Wrong.

I see consistently and interact or others with people from both TNP and TWP quite often outside both's region/offsite. Can't say the same for Osiris which I have nothing to do with region/offsite. This does not mean Osirans do not interact or are not known well abroad, but neither does that also apply to TNP. Because on the other hand, someone can be in the exact reverse position as mine with TNP and Osiris and from that perspective assume that TNP is exactly as Syberis/Tim states while I would see them as wrong and say it's Osiris instead that is that and not TNP. But I know better then to assume Osirans are not out and about.

cool then name a TNPer that got snubbed from the Power20

Yeah I'm not Bormiar, nor arguing his points, nice try. I'm arguing on that TNPers don't get out much. Learn to read. Next.

[Bormiar]

Wrong. Wrong.

I see consistently and interact or others with people from both TNP and TWP quite often outside both's region/offsite. Can't say the same for Osiris which I have nothing to do with region/offsite. This does not mean Osirans do not interact or are not known well abroad, but neither does that also apply to TNP. Because on the other hand, someone can be in the exact reverse position as mine with TNP and Osiris and from that perspective assume that TNP is exactly as Syberis/Tim states while I would see them as wrong and say it's Osiris instead that is that and not TNP. But I know better then to assume Osirans are not out and about.

cool then name a TNPer that got snubbed from the Power20

"Snubbed" is an exaggeration, but I believe Ghost and Deadeye Jack (TRR, not TNP) belonged on the list more than many of the other people there. I won't name them because people get offended when you say they aren't one of the most influential NSers. And r3n needed to be credited for work in TNP primarily, they should've cut Balder / Europeia on the description. It's pretty easy to see the ridiculousness when you look at some of the players who are on the list. DM me and I'll give some examples. I doubt you truly care, though. You're just trying to be right.

[RiderSyl]

Learn to read. Next.

I doubt you truly care, though. You're just trying to be right.

congrats, i give up, you two "win" the internet argument. i just can't be assed dealing with people acting so toxic over such inconsequential shit.

[Drop Your Pants]

congrats, i give up, you two "win" the internet argument. i just can't be assed dealing with people acting so toxic over such inconsequential shit.

Oh oh look out, Syl is calling you toxic. Run away!!!!!

[Great Algerstonia]

Be the change you wish to see

[RiderSyl]

congrats, i give up, you two "win" the internet argument. i just can't be assed dealing with people acting so toxic over such inconsequential shit.

Oh oh look out, Syl is calling you toxic. Run away!!!!!

what even is the point in this comment? i'm legitimately asking you, DYP.

Be the change you wish to see

hmm?