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Jakker Versus Unibot

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

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Belschaft
Minister
 
Posts: 2387
Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:42 pm

Crushing Our Enemies wrote:Jakker: 2
Unibot: 'A' for effort.

;)

(Although I was seriously surprised to see 27 defenders mobilized in 12 hours. Holy crap.)

That is the power of the UDL; our average Merryman may not be as good as a TITO Knight, or for that matter a FRA Ranger, but we are able to amass serious manpower very quickly, and in the long run we are all going to get better.

I'm annoyed I missed the lib attempt though <_<
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-Carta-
Envoy
 
Posts: 217
Founded: Apr 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby -Carta- » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:46 pm

I slept through the liberation unfortunately, and I even told myself not to do this. :|

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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:49 pm

-Carta- wrote:I slept through the liberation unfortunately, and I even told myself not to do this. :|


Fail much? :p
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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:
-Carta- wrote:I slept through the liberation unfortunately, and I even told myself not to do this. :|


Fail much? :p


It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
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Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:03 pm

Unibot II wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:
Fail much? :p


It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.


:eek:

....my mind is blown
Author of SC#74, SC #203, SC #222, and SC #238 | Co-Author of SC#191
Founder of Spiritus | Three-Time Delegate of Osiris | Pharaoh of the Islamic Republics of Iran
[11:16:10] <@Koth> tim is a loose cannon cop on the edge who doesn't play by the rules

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Tramiar
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Founded: Aug 30, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Tramiar » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:04 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Unibot II wrote:
It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.


:eek:

....my mind is blown

Then you obviously don't know Carta.
Mallorea and Riva wrote:I too would ban myself if I saw me moving into my region.

Tramiar: *causes great injustices to natives and fenda-kind*
Spartzy: *prevents great injustices*
Tramiar: too late, they were already caused.
Spartzy: *stops great injustices*
Tramiar: *causes greater injustices, cannot be fixed until next update*
Spartzy: *quits the game*

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Mallorea and Riva
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Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:07 pm

Tramiar wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:
:eek:

....my mind is blown

Then you obviously don't know Carta.

Watches as Carta singlehandedly becomes delegate for every Region.
Great job to Unibot and the UDL organizing that shot, that many in that short a time amazed me too :lol:
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Harmoneia
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Founded: Apr 26, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Harmoneia » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:11 pm

lols I slept through it too. Worse part is I was there like 30 minutes before it updates D: Next time I'll get coffee! :P

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Jakker
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Posts: 1928
Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:50 am

Well UDL did some liberations at the minor, but The Black Hawks took 5 out of 6 regions during a tag raid run at this last major update.
Fendas couldn't stop us at at all with TBH being too fast. :) I would have made it 6 out of 6 if I didn't mess up one of the times :P

I say this one is a draw, Uni. Keep it up.
Last edited by Jakker on Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:29 am

*coughs*

I have a team, Jakker.

It's called The United Defenders League; they kick raider butt and did so pretty forcibly at the minor.

You should stop equating my team's successes as my own; we couldn't have done those liberations without the twenty-odd people that came out to show you and your colleagues that there are still people in NationStates willing to fight the good fight for the sake of native communities.

Furthermore if you had to put even a fraction of the effort into your raiding as defenders have to put into their defending, you would have left this game a long time ago. I'm very proud of my team's performance; for every moment you have to plan what second-rate propaganda you're going to post on the forum to perpetuate your self-importance is another moment of constant refreshing for them.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;
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Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Jakker
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Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:57 am

First, you really need to get that cough checked out.

Secondly, I am well aware that defending as well as raiding takes a group effort. If you remember my first post, “This challenge is extended to all raiders and all fendas, but I figure putting faces to this would make things more interesting.” When I am saying you, I am referring to fendas as a whole. Also, what makes you think that raiding takes less effort than defending? Both have their challenges and it’s ignorant of you to pretend that you’re so special and hardworking for defending.

I started this challenge because I thought you were a strong leader. But you know what? You’re right. You couldn’t nor shouldn’t say any success of UDL is that much because of you. I know about your update time skills or should I say lack there of? I am yet to see or hear of any great leadership skills that you have…

Why should I be afraid of someone who left the FRA because of how many people disliked him to only make his own group to make himself pretend he’s a good defender?
Last edited by Jakker on Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.

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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:20 am

Jakker wrote:Also, what makes you think that raiding takes less effort than defending? Both have their challenges and it’s ignorant of you to pretend that you’re so special and hardworking for defending.


...

Spotting requires one's full attention for periods of the entire update, you only need to be active to do the raid.

Organizing a liberation must be done within a window of twelve hours, you can have upwards of twelve days.

A liberation faces a trained and active raider delegate; a raid faces a sleepy old delegate.

A liberation generally requires a native to be endorsed (thus increasing the span of time to ban-eject); a raid generally removes that step and can be done at a much smaller window of time.

A liberation generally faces all of a raiding groups' non-updaters thus requiring more organization once again in less time.

Spotting needs to be done every night; you get to pick what days you want to work.

Why should I be afraid of someone who left the FRA because of how many people disliked him to only make his own group to make himself pretend he’s a good defender?


Sorry to disappoint.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;
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Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Jakker
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Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:33 am

Maybe defenders should stop complaining about defending :P

You and all your troops chose to defend. Either stop defending or suck it up.
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The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.

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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:38 am

Jakker wrote:Maybe defenders should stop complaining about defending :P

You and all your troops chose to defend. Either stop defending or suck it up.


Not all of us do it for fun, but it is a choice. Good night, Jakker.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;
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Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:54 am

Jakker wrote:
Why should I be afraid of someone who left the FRA because of how many people disliked him to only make his own group to make himself pretend he’s a good defender?

Seems to me like you're afraid of facts.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Harmie
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Harmie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:21 am

Jakker wrote:First, you really need to get that cough checked out.

Secondly, I am well aware that defending as well as raiding takes a group effort. If you remember my first post, “This challenge is extended to all raiders and all fendas, but I figure putting faces to this would make things more interesting.” When I am saying you, I am referring to fendas as a whole. Also, what makes you think that raiding takes less effort than defending? Both have their challenges and it’s ignorant of you to pretend that you’re so special and hardworking for defending.

I started this challenge because I thought you were a strong leader. But you know what? You’re right. You couldn’t nor shouldn’t say any success of UDL is that much because of you. I know about your update time skills or should I say lack there of? I am yet to see or hear of any great leadership skills that you have…

Why should I be afraid of someone who left the FRA because of how many people disliked him to only make his own group to make himself pretend he’s a good defender?


You say this isn't just about Unibot, but why are you going down low With the ad hominem? Spartz has IMO one of the best triggering skills that the game has seen. He isn't perfect but he had also hit update times with milliseconds variance.


You asked why he thought defending was more difficult than raiding, he simply answered, so I am not sure if that can be considered as complaining, as I did not see any sort of whining there.
Lastly, I am not so sure if TITO, or FRA for that matter, would like to be referred to as Unibot or one of his troops.

And here I was thinking you were sincerely caring for the game and not ego-tripping for trolz. I liked you, Jakker.

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SunRawr
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Founded: May 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SunRawr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:25 am

Harmie wrote:And here I was thinking you were sincerely caring for the game and not ego-tripping for trolz. I liked you, Jakker.

You really think Jakker's post was unreasonable after the way Uni replied to him? Jakker has never been anything other than nice when talking to Unibot, or when talking about him in private (which has been frustrating in the past). Uni couldn't bother to return that respect. Why should Jakker take abuse with a smile on his face?

And I believe every damn thing he said is true.
Last edited by SunRawr on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Harmie
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Harmie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:32 am

SunRawr wrote:
Harmie wrote:And here I was thinking you were sincerely caring for the game and not ego-tripping for trolz. I liked you, Jakker.

You really think Jakker's post was unreasonable after the way Uni replied to him? Jakker has never been anything other than nice when talking to Unibot, or when talking about him in private (which has been frustrating in the past). Uni couldn't bother to return that respect. Why should Jakker take abuse with a smile on his face?

And I believe every damn thing he said is true.


Yes, I do.

I hate Halcones because he did some bad things, therefore I will criticize you all.
^ not reasonable I don't think.

And most raiders would agree that defending takes more effort. Contrary to Jakker's belief, I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. Though I defend for fun, I would admit. ;)



Oh, btw, I nevertheless congratulate TBH on the successful update raids. :)
Last edited by Harmie on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SunRawr
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Founded: May 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SunRawr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:36 am

Harmie wrote:
SunRawr wrote:You really think Jakker's post was unreasonable after the way Uni replied to him? Jakker has never been anything other than nice when talking to Unibot, or when talking about him in private (which has been frustrating in the past). Uni couldn't bother to return that respect. Why should Jakker take abuse with a smile on his face?

And I believe every damn thing he said is true.


Yes, I do.

I hate Halcones because he did some bad things, therefore I will criticize you all.
^ not reasonable I don't think.

And most raiders would agree that defending takes more effort. Contrary to Jakker's belief, I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. Though I defend for fun, I would admit. ;)

Then you are an unreasonable person.

And everyone criticizes us for what Halc did. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be judged for what your leaders do, start your own org.

Most defenders haven't done both. I have. Defending doesn't require more work, just different kinds. ;)

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Harmie
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Harmie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:46 am

I have also done both, and for years. Stealth is important for raiders, but the physical draining is a lot more difficult for defenders. Raiding eats up a lot of time but at least you get to choose and you get to hide. For us, there is no point in hiding when you are expecting us anyways.


I do not criticize you and all invaders for what Halc did, much less for not pulling out your support in Anarchy despite being alongside Nazis. This is because I am a reasonable person who recognizes the fact that people are individuals who have names.
I mean, I wouldn't criticize Americans if Obama screwed up, even if they elected m there after all. - because it's not reasonable.


Lastly, I defend for defending, not for the UDL's glory. It is not important who my leader is as long as I get things done. I cannot even be bothered to update my records in the FRA and am thus a mere private despite being a founding member. But frankly, I don't care as long as I get to defend.

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SunRawr
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Postby SunRawr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:59 am

Harmie wrote:I have also done both, and for years. Stealth is important for raiders, but the physical draining is a lot more difficult for defenders. Raiding eats up a lot of time but at least you get to choose and you get to hide. For us, there is no point in hiding when you are expecting us anyways.

You obviously have no idea how hard it is to hide these days. Your little friends using endo-counting scripts makes it nearly impossible to do stealthy raids unless it is on a very long term basis.


I do not criticize you and all invaders for what Halc did, much less for not pulling out your support in Anarchy despite being alongside Nazis. This is because I am a reasonable person who recognizes the fact that people are individuals who have names.
I mean, I wouldn't criticize Americans if Obama screwed up, even if they elected m there after all. - because it's not reasonable.

Did you miss the part where Jakker said that when he said Unibot he was actually referring to all of you? It's in the OP I believe. If you would prefer that he mention you all by name then you should send him a TG with the names of everyone who is involved next time. I'm sure he'd be willing to accommodate your unreasonable concerns.
And I wouldn't move out of a region just because an RP Nazi region moved in. I hate Nazis very very much irl, but this is a game. As long as they weren't being all ideological to the region, I'd stay. This is the opinion of Rawr and Rawr only. It does not necessarily represent the views of TBH or the Council of the Hawks

Lastly, I defend for defending, not for the UDL's glory. It is not important who my leader is as long as I get things done. I cannot even be bothered to update my records in the FRA and am thus a mere private despite being a founding member. But frankly, I don't care as long as I get to defend.

Congrats. I didn't keep logs in FRA either. It was boring and an unnecessary part of the game. However I don't understand why you are mentioning it here. >.>

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Harmie
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Harmie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:11 am

I mentioned it to make a point, that I don't care who the lead is, who organizes it, or my leader is as long we get the job done the right way. And I am not alone in this regard.

Also, not criticizing us all just because he dislikes Unibot would be fine for me, he doesn't need to mention names as that would be extremely... Unreasonable. :)
Last edited by Harmie on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SunRawr
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Founded: May 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SunRawr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:15 am

Harmie wrote:I mentioned it to make a point, that I don't care who the lead is, who organizes it, or my leader is as long we get the job done the right way. And I am not alone in this regard.

I know you aren't. Like I said, I was one of them.

Also, not criticizing us all just because he dislikes Unibot would be fine for me, he doesn't need to mention names as that would be extremely... Unreasonable. :)

He didn't dislike Unibot until that post, thank you very much. Jakker likes everyone.

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Jakker
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Posts: 1928
Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:17 am

A few things and I don't how how to quote specific parts of what someone wrote, so I hope it's not too confusing :P

Harm, you mention Spartz. I could mention how impressive I think Spartz is. I've seen his update times and personally believe he would be a far better raider than I will ever be. He is that good. Lucky to have him on your side :)

Also, for the record, I'm sure defending is a lot of work and in some case, more work than raiding. I just had a problem with Uni talking as if raiders, and in particular me, do far less.

As for me ego-tripping, it could be true, so feel free to criticize for such.

Finally, Mahaj. I did my homework, so although I did not mention all the facts, I believe I have a fair grasp of what I said.

You defenders do good work and I hope you all get more recognition. Uni is the only one I have an issue with :)
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The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.

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Harmie
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Harmie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:31 am

Jakker wrote:Maybe defenders should stop complaining about defending :P

You and all your troops chose to defend. Either stop defending or suck it up.

I mentioned Spartz because he did the triggering when we did the 27-man lib attempt.

But anyways that statement of yours was my only problem. So thanks for clearing that up. The merrymen are like my children to me so I get a little irked when they get attacked by the people who dislike Unibot and his gut.

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