NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

by **Ghost Land** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm

The Mindset Reborn wrote:Hello all. I have not posted on these forums since 2013.

Hey! I haven't thought about you in a long time - but it's good to have you back!

I have recently done some reorganisation of deep, ancient backups, and discovered some things from that era (and before) that may interest people here, especially those involved in the Future Tech roleplaying community circa 2004-2010ish.

Some preamble and history, since it's now 2021 and Nationstates has changed a lot since I was an active participant:

My original nation name was The Mindset. The oldest archive of this on Wayback Machine is circa 26th March 2009, however I believe my original nation was founded sometime in 2004.
Under the guise of this nation, I founded the Extra-Solar Union of Systems (ESUS) future tech alliance. The original founding post is lost to the mists of time on the jolt forums, but I have restored an archive of the forums circa October 2010 from an old backup. These forums were previously private, and required a roleplaying test for admittance. At its peak around 2009, the ESUS had around 40-50 active members and was by far the largest active future tech alliance at the time, and perhaps since? (I believe). Sadly, I have not been able to find a backup of the ESUS wiki, which contained a lot of information and worldbuilding.
I created the Nationstates Galaxy Map application around this time, which drove recruitment to the ESUS. I have found the code for this too, but it's godawful, and I don't have a database backup.
I maintained a second nation, specifically for posting in the General forum, under the username Getbrett during this time. The Mindset was my 'future tech' roleplay nation, whereas 'Getbrett' was designed to be a 'American Psycho' style sociopath, and I roleplayed as such within the General forum (perhaps too well) - and this nation, and my main one The Mindset, were deleted by moderators circa July 2010. For this I was declared delete on sight. Honestly, I was a pest and a shit, so this was deserved.
On March 2011 a friend from an offsite forum called UMP posted what amounted to a suicide note on Nationstates. Although I was DOS, I created a new nation, Getbrett2, to attempt to reach him, and for this I was given temporary leniency from the mods re: my delete on sight status.
This nation was created circa 2011 and recently restored after I discovered the aforementioned backups above, and I decided this may be interesting to others from around that time, so I reactivated the account to post this.

The Mindset and Getbrett were the same person? :blink:

Well, today I learned! I always thought you seemed like a good guy - and, well, that was ten years or more ago and this nation hasn't been deleted yet so clearly the past is safely in the past. I'm glad to have you back.

by **The Mindset Reborn** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:58 pm

Ghost Land wrote:Hey! I haven't thought about you in a long time - but it's good to have you back!

The Mindset and Getbrett were the same person?

Well, today I learned! I always thought you seemed like a good guy - and, well, that was ten years or more ago and this nation hasn't been deleted yet so clearly the past is safely in the past. I'm glad to have you back.

Fraid so. I was quite prolific back in the day across multiple different areas, so to speak.

I suspect, given I'm now mid 30s with a full time job, that my involvement in 2021 will be substantially less. It also seems that the FT scene is quite a bit less organised than back then too.

A lot of fun memories here though. A lot of the tools I built for the community here directly led to my current work too (software engineering).

by **Lord Dominator** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:53 pm

Imperial States of Duotona wrote:Who came up with the reoccurring fake names in Issues, like Dàgúo and Maxtopia?

Generally the various authors and editors of the issues in which they first appear

by **Bears Armed** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:06 am

Imperial States of Duotona wrote:Who came up with the reoccurring fake names in Issues, like Dàgúo and Maxtopia?

Mostly the authors of the issues in which those names first appeared, but in some cases possibly the editors or just people who posted in the relevant drafting threads. There's no pre-established list or map of possibilities.

by **Goobergunchia** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:43 am

And of course, Maxtopia was originally Max Barry's nation.

by **Tinhampton** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:26 pm

Further to what NES said in 2012: At minor update about seven hours ago, Trovons was liberated by 115 defender endoes (TGW, TITO, RRA, SPSF, NPA, etc.) to 95 raider endoes (TBH, LWU, Lily, Aurelius, and Kantrias; Thaecia was involved for a while but pulled out) - a veritable basketball score.

That is a total of 210 endorsements - which would have easily placed it in NES's above-linked list. Have there been any other battles of similar size over the past ten years? Here are the big pileoffs of recent years that I can remember, if that at all helps =P

August 2021: Chaylia - liberated by 73 defenders to 66 raiders
Later in August 2021: Liberal Democratic Union - liberated 93-91
November 2018: St Abbaddon - anti-NPO forces numbered 162, pro-NPO forces numbered 146 at last count*
May 2021: Genua - record 110 raider pilers, running unopposed for obvious reasons
March 2017: Illuminati - I've forgotten the exact numbers for some reason =P

*Kitsco banned many anti-NPO forces, including Topid - and maybe this nation - shortly before Stabby updated. After the update, I decided to create a pro-NPO-looking nation called Dvoraks New World Symphony, which subsequently served as a member of Stabby's Council of Elders. The plan was to hang around for long enough that I could finally jack Stabby's delegacy for myself and let Topid back in on 29th March 2019, at the time the date penciled in for Brexit - "Freedom Day," perhaps... I gave up on it after a few weeks when I learned that I was NOT going to get to that level. I think Topid returned after a bit and the government became less obviously pro-NPO in due course which made my whole endeavour pointless

by **Unibot III** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:18 am

The Trovons mission may be the largest winning endorsement total for any ‘conventional’ liberation too. Puppetmaster of course was 121 (+6) but totally unconventional. NES’ list contains a lot of “pile-offs” where the lead went inactive or CTE’d for some reason and the defenders began piling in.

Someone should update NES’s list with modern examples for a more complete figure. I think there should be distinct labels for pile-offs versus “live” engagements on the list. It’s far more impressive to haul out a hundred+ players for a single update: it requires a lot of logistics, planning, and organization.

Very impressive, might I add. A live mission with 115 liberators would be exciting.

by **Kavagrad** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:40 am

Were there any large-ish leftist regions during the early years of NS (specifically 2003-2009)?

by **Slaver Pirates of Vaas** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:58 am

Anyone know the true meanings of the euphemisms used in NS issues?

by **Nakarisaune** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:01 am

Tinhampton wrote:Further to what NES said in 2012: At minor update about seven hours ago, Trovons was liberated by 115 defender endoes (TGW, TITO, RRA, SPSF, NPA, etc.) to 95 raider endoes (TBH, LWU, Lily, Aurelius, and Kantrias; Thaecia was involved for a while but pulled out) - a veritable basketball score.

That is a total of 210 endorsements - which would have easily placed it in NES's above-linked list. Have there been any other battles of similar size over the past ten years? Here are the big pileoffs of recent years that I can remember, if that at all helps =P
August 2021: Chaylia - liberated by 73 defenders to 66 raiders
Later in August 2021: Liberal Democratic Union - liberated 93-91
November 2018: St Abbaddon - anti-NPO forces numbered 162, pro-NPO forces numbered 146 at last count*
May 2021: Genua - record 110 raider pilers, running unopposed for obvious reasons
March 2017: Illuminati - I've forgotten the exact numbers for some reason =P

*Kitsco banned many anti-NPO forces, including Topid - and maybe this nation - shortly before Stabby updated. After the update, I decided to create a pro-NPO-looking nation called Dvoraks New World Symphony, which subsequently served as a member of Stabby's Council of Elders. The plan was to hang around for long enough that I could finally jack Stabby's delegacy for myself and let Topid back in on 29th March 2019, at the time the date penciled in for Brexit - "Freedom Day," perhaps... I gave up on it after a few weeks when I learned that I was NOT going to get to that level. I think Topid returned after a bit and the government became less obviously pro-NPO in due course which made my whole endeavour pointless

I'll mention possibly one of the longest sieges - December 13 to December 31 2016, Spear Danes vs. Femdom Empire. It seems to have peaked at 78 on delegate Loyal Followers and 65 on John-Travolta, though some of the archives for late December are missing + I know a lot of banning went on so I can't confirm how many actually jumped. I want to say we got up to 80 in region at one point before bans but my memory might be wrong.

by **Unibot III** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:24 am

Kavagrad wrote:Were there any large-ish leftist regions during the early years of NS (specifically 2003-2009)?

Search “RLA” in this thread.

by **Blackbird** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:56 pm

Kavagrad wrote:Were there any large-ish leftist regions during the early years of NS (specifically 2003-2009)?

Yes. Many.

The Proletariat Coalition (300+)
The Allied States of Euroislanders (250+)
Alliance of Socialist States (150+)
Marxism (150+)
The Lefts Nirvana (100+)

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:14 pm

Curious, what was the most recent RP-based condemnation/commendation?

by **Tinhampton** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:19 pm

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:Curious, what was the most recent RP-based condemnation/commendation?

Actually the most recent C&C of any description - Commend Cassadaigua, by yours truly, passed almost four weeks ago.

by **Tinhampton** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:06 pm

Unibot III wrote:A live mission with 115 liberators would be exciting.

It gets bigger from here! Zhong-guo attracted 116 endorsements (and was clocking 120 a few seconds before update) from assorted natives and defenders - up against Commie Raider Lesbians' 100 from TBH, NPA, TWPAF, Lily, Thaecia and so on - in order to reclaim the WA Delegacy of China for natives and defenders at the ongoing major update.

by **Unibot III** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:51 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Unibot III wrote:A live mission with 115 liberators would be exciting.

It gets bigger from here! Zhong-guo attracted 116 endorsements (and was clocking 120 a few seconds before update) from assorted natives and defenders - up against Commie Raider Lesbians' 100 from TBH, NPA, TWPAF, Lily, Thaecia and so on - in order to reclaim the WA Delegacy of China for natives and defenders at the ongoing major update.

Endorsements Received: 117 » Zhongguo-, CCP China, Dongming, Xingyun Heping, Great Zhao, Zoom-32, Oaks 46, Latfetehhej, Caliaman, The Communal Fjords, 14 Walruses, The Wiggles Hate Each Other in Real Life, QC2, Achlys 49, Starlight Glimmer 27, Tombolo, RRA more like IRA, SwordandShield, Heckhole2, Power Level 9000, SulOwOenia, The United Universe, Angels of Slavery, Below, Harold Lee, The Lord of the Rings, Kortexia set his trigger and then, Frenchy 5, Year Of The Rooster, Bucket-1, Kutumal IV, Tirol Korps I, Dameria, Harvest, The Oldest Trick in the Stalker Book, Mulaagian Expeditionary Force, SuSeason, Commulists, E-girls are ruining my life, Nortin Denn, Emergency thing, New Prumerica, Meow Zedong, Hakaroa, On Wednesdays we wear pink, Smugglers and Mercs, Pog Ajakanistan, An Illegally Imported FN FAL, XCOM Project, Lunaflower-1, Kekkoslovakianistan, Shield of Aiur, Gres Abenhe, Your Little Glowing Friend, Calapsia, Grillerz, West Yourtanad, Porflox5, Christian Lindners III Empire, Controlitia WA, Nicholas and GB, The Military of South Asians 5, Gest is Best, Blackhall, Dralom, Asialio10, Flars Tightmel, Verbalia, -Aersoldorf-, U n k, Aketura, Rainbow Squirts, Paleo 1, Krovx, The Remnant of Ashes, 0-0 0-0, Namakka, California burrito, Andaleland, New Fallout Empire, Alinata, Denshi Sentai Denziman, Iandrul 20, Colanare Overk, Vrolondia, Scalandia, Pan-Shawnee, AESS, Utahn theocratic republic, Karoghustan, Boa Constrictor, The Firefly, Esfalsan Army Platoon 1, Somuris, Armoured Cruiser Nisshin, Littlepip, Krevt01, Pg76, Based and Bluepilled, Rainstorms, Puppetaska, Easte, Northoscad, Ride Destroyer, The Heaverian Army, Ovet Dus, Anabria Foryland, Vincent Drake, Ventighbis, The Paper Boat Captain, Shadowboxing, Falconias III, Frenchofof, AS-16 Kickback, Light1, Khwazr, and Aya Democratic Republic.
WA update pending: Nation has 116 verified endorsements.

Endorsements Received: 100 » J0e Biden, IronRose67, Apolskist, August Gracian, Otis Milburn, Minca, Lurklife 5, Tamiel, Rybergtopia, RonaldReagan, The Albalian Raiders, Xchocobars, Army of emus 9, Kawaii Doomers, Power Wolf, Moria Mom, Discord Im howling at the moon, Give me your balls, Dynomo, Hentickles, Bloom3, Aquamarine Taun, One Bagger, Flap Flap Boom 12, Florida Man 4, The Islamic Country of Honour TO 4, Chatrapatih, Flaming Crown of Mercury, 1st Marine Assault Corps, 1st Catgirl Division, Romardalinis, Mages of the Ivory Tower, Spaceology, Grape Island, Steak Paul Pt 2, Bobberino50, Goop Sax, Paradis Eternal, Technolopolis, Khalrum, Fox maid shine, Tee Frest, Eoi, Salyut 7, Elyenia, Endo, All Might, Huago third empire, Zarzan, Enteras, Felneggn Hocrepianiaion, Aakshaj Outlaws, Hawkia, Sorenity2, Qu GoiGo, Oliver Twist, Fish Army 01, The Fluffy Bunnies, Six feet away, NeLendurg, Sonakion, Wyvern p1, Merry Band of Pirates, Verovka, Penny Polendina, Better New Dorchester, The Psychohistorians, Rich People Hate, Greater Ukraine Reich, Unione Corse, SoyixTBH-11, Voipelny Strelny, Zequinha do Abacaxi, West Andes, Guslantis II, Southern Akopid Rayshion, Imperial Senate Prime, MeusaWar 2, Pasmation, 9006, Primo Order 6, Dhaneeia, Charles Lee Ray, Second to Naan, Ziadrium, Lancer 20, Xarstaria, WeedPind, Jorlam, Arcornia, Doliand, New Ripton, Herleif, Pluocia, Oliand, Elwyn-Maria, PM10, QuietArmy10, DD-557, and Toriniall.

Jesus, that’s big!

What happened there? The activity log is wild. Did they do a pre-endorse on the lead or…? Someone should copy & paste all the relevant activity logs.

by **Tinhampton** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:07 am

Unibot III wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:It gets bigger from here! Zhong-guo attracted 116 endorsements (and was clocking 120 a few seconds before update) from assorted natives and defenders - up against Commie Raider Lesbians' 100 from TBH, NPA, TWPAF, Lily, Thaecia and so on - in order to reclaim the WA Delegacy of China for natives and defenders at the ongoing major update. [...]

Jesus, that’s big!

What happened there? The activity log is wild. Did they do a pre-endorse on the lead or…? Someone should copy & paste all the relevant activity logs.

I almost have no idea what's going on here (as of time of writing) - the native delegate definitely moved into ASS a couple of hours before The Biggest One - but...

And here's how they got moving in the end in the seconds before and after Zhong-guo became delegate at 06:01:48 GMT on December 20th; remember that Zhong-guo never lost the endorsements he picked up from natives and others in China at the minor update of December 19th (if they were still in the region and the WA)...

(TGW actually claims that there were 122 liberators in China.)

by **Unibot III** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:38 am

So it’s a pre-endorsement approach then, as I thought. Looks like the difference might be in that some liberators were ejected before updated, or moved later than update, and if you include your lead as a liberator that’s +1 (I haven’t looked at the numbers closely enough to tell you what’s going on).

Puppetmaster was 120 endorsements, 121 liberators (+1 for lead).

It’s possible we may have a case where China is the largest liberation in terms of liberation participants and the new largest conventional liberation (beating Trovons), but Puppetmaster remains the largest liberation overall in terms of final endorsements casted (how we usually measure size).

Someone should do up a formal table with these records, and distinguish between pile-offs and live liberations.

by **Tinhampton** » Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:39 pm

Greater Middle East Cold War was featured on December 29th 2021 and then again today, January 2nd 2022 - a five-day gap. Has any other region been featured twice in five days or less?

by **Nepleslia** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:41 am

Who was Chester Pearson?

by **Spode Humbled Minions** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:05 pm

Nepleslia wrote:Who was Chester Pearson?

This source from dispatch hosted by the nation All Wild Things describes them as "a serial WA author, who later became DOS for their behaviour", which seems to be fairly objective information.
Link in question:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1251224

by **Tinhampton** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:15 am

Since time immemorial (at least my immemoriability), regulars to Forum 7 have typically had a line in their signature explaining their non-use of "NS Stats," sometimes humorously. The first two that come to mind are The Onox Legion ("NS stats have been beaten up and gotten their wallets taken, they don't count") and Greater Cosmicium ("NS stats were dropped into Diet Coke to finally serve a useful purpose for Greater Cosmicium").

What are, or were, World Census statistics used for in F7, and why has dislike of their use been so widespread - even among players who only joined long after people first started saying "I don't use NS Stats"? Or is this in large part a reference to people preferring to use RP populations over the mostly-absolute CHONKers that are World Census populations?

by **Esthe** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:17 am

What was the first UCR?

by **Ever-Wandering Souls** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:30 am

Tinhampton wrote:Since time immemorial (at least my immemoriability), regulars to Forum 7 have typically had a line in their signature explaining their non-use of "NS Stats," sometimes humorously. The first two that come to mind are The Onox Legion ("NS stats have been beaten up and gotten their wallets taken, they don't count") and Greater Cosmicium ("NS stats were dropped into Diet Coke to finally serve a useful purpose for Greater Cosmicium").

What are, or were, World Census statistics used for in F7, and why has dislike of their use been so widespread - even among players who only joined long after people first started saying "I don't use NS Stats"? Or is this in large part a reference to people preferring to use RP populations over the mostly-absolute CHONKers that are World Census populations?

Does that refer to gameside stats? Because, not sure, but perhaps they mean forum posting stats - since F7, iirc, does not count towards your forum stats due to it's ephemeral nature.

by **Valentine Z** » Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:51 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Since time immemorial (at least my immemoriability), regulars to Forum 7 have typically had a line in their signature explaining their non-use of "NS Stats," sometimes humorously. The first two that come to mind are The Onox Legion ("NS stats have been beaten up and gotten their wallets taken, they don't count") and Greater Cosmicium ("NS stats were dropped into Diet Coke to finally serve a useful purpose for Greater Cosmicium").

What are, or were, World Census statistics used for in F7, and why has dislike of their use been so widespread - even among players who only joined long after people first started saying "I don't use NS Stats"? Or is this in large part a reference to people preferring to use RP populations over the mostly-absolute CHONKers that are World Census populations?

Ooooh, I can answer this one a little! To oversimplify it a little bit, most of it stemmed from "NS Stats not used" to indicate that they indeed do not use stats when it comes to being judged on the Above Nation games. Most of it is due to how their ideologies and actual stats are different from NS stats, so it's all mostly due to Roleplaying. I imagine it's the same for other forums as well, so the lack of Stats usage is not isolated to F7.

The humorous lines were a side effect of this, trying to either one-up each other or to take their own spin of how NS stats might be "killed" off. If Valentine Z doesn't use stats, I would have personally go with "NS stats slapped manically by pawing kittens."

NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

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