NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

[Casita]

eh, I remember Nolaerie and Jackie Clarkson going after Nazi regions, and that was back in 2004-2005.

I suspect the focus on "Nazis" specifically is more of a newer phenomenon, because it's mostly political behavior that was adopted after the rise of Independentism. In other words, people needed something that they could all agree on to do, after they went "neutral".

I think I've heard from Free4All and Bears Armed (??? Or The Bruce?) that it was quite common to see Socialists v. Fascists fighting even before invaders were contested by defenders.

Do you think NS antifa was heavily influenced from NS2 game players, or was it somewhat known before the NS 2 attempt?

[Ananke II]

I think I've heard from Free4All and Bears Armed (??? Or The Bruce?) that it was quite common to see Socialists v. Fascists fighting even before invaders were contested by defenders.

Yeah, RKKA had their own little thing going in their sphere of the game, where they fought smaller capitalist and fascist regions. It used to drive EuroSoviets bonkers because he couldn't really get them to care about the wider Gameplay world and he needed them to clean up their act somewhat to show them off as respectable parts of the NS leftwing.

Edit: Also, ACCEL was founded (partly) as a way to redirect military action on the part of capitalist regions around NS towards defending/common security rather than invasions of socialist regions, which some of them tended to get into.

[Casita]

I think I've heard from Free4All and Bears Armed (??? Or The Bruce?) that it was quite common to see Socialists v. Fascists fighting even before invaders were contested by defenders.

Yeah, RKKA had their own little thing going in their sphere of the game, where they fought smaller capitalist and fascist regions. It used to drive EuroSoviets bonkers because he couldn't really get them to care about the wider Gameplay world and he needed them to clean up their act somewhat to show them off as respectable parts of the NS leftwing.

Edit: Also, ACCEL was founded (partly) as a way to redirect military action on the part of capitalist regions around NS towards defending/common security rather than invasions of socialist regions, which some of them tended to get into.

ACCEL?

[Southern Bellz]

eh, I remember Nolaerie and Jackie Clarkson going after Nazi regions, and that was back in 2004-2005.

I suspect the focus on "Nazis" specifically is more of a newer phenomenon, because it's mostly political behavior that was adopted after the rise of Independentism. In other words, people needed something that they could all agree on to do, after they went "neutral".

lmao

[Glen-Rhodes]

I don't know what's so lmao about that... You ran on just that platform, right? Certainly there's a completely different moral reason to fight against Nazi regions, but most advocates of antifa ops seems to openly acknowledge that part of the reason they push antifa is because it's a "safe" platform in Independent regions. You wont anger anybody, in other words. That's not inherently bad!

[DWAsnia]

Yeah, what was ACCEL? I remember reading a draft for Commend The-CID (Re-Founder of Capitalist Paradise) that he was an instrumental player in the creation of ACCEL.

[Ananke II]

I suspect the focus on "Nazis" specifically is more of a newer phenomenon, because it's mostly political behavior that was adopted after the rise of Independentism. In other words, people needed something that they could all agree on to do, after they went "neutral".

Hmm, I'm not sure. Sons of Liberty went after both raider and Nazi regions from what I remember and the discussion about whether to defend Nazi regions has been happening between defenders for as long as I remember. It's possible that attacking Nazi regions have been used more as a political tool lately, but there's always been non-raider groups who saw them as legitimate targets, which wouldn't get them fully shunned by the defender community.

[Blackbird]

Antifascism is pretty recent, IMO.

Not at all.

My first experiences as a defender, back in early 2003, were defending left-wing regions from constant fascist and capitalist attacks. We formed the Marxist-Anarchist-Syndicalist-Socialist Alliance (MASS), the forerunner to the Red Liberty Alliance (RLA) mainly to engage in the common defense of our common political beliefs.

Particularly early on in Nation-States, there were far more conflicts based on "RL" political conflicts: Ireland and Northern Palestine, Israel and Palestine, and the myriad of left-wingers versus right-wingers.

Ananke is correct about the RKKA: they were very much like a proto-MASS Alliance, but long past the time when the RLA and most other defenders engaged in common defense of everyone. RLA diplomats such as myself spent a lot of effort to try to get the RKKA to become a defender organization, rather than an organization which both defended left-wing regions and counter-attacked their capitalist aggressors.

[Blackbird]

I suspect the focus on "Nazis" specifically is more of a newer phenomenon, because it's mostly political behavior that was adopted after the rise of Independentism. In other words, people needed something that they could all agree on to do, after they went "neutral".

Hmm, I'm not sure. Sons of Liberty went after both raider and Nazi regions from what I remember and the discussion about whether to defend Nazi regions has been happening between defenders for as long as I remember. It's possible that attacking Nazi regions have been used more as a political tool lately, but there's always been non-raider groups who saw them as legitimate targets, which wouldn't get them fully shunned by the defender community.

Sons of Liberty was an Atlantic Alliance fallout front that was run by Accellsior/Thomasia, the head of the Atlantic Central Command. After ACC/AA fell, several of its larger leaders formed new alliances, and the Sons of Liberty was one of the main ones. I don't remember it going after Nazis at all, rather its larger goal was to disrupt the Meritocracy. However, because at that point the AA had been so riddled with defender spies, much of the Sons of Liberty and other AA-fallout organization were fully infiltrated from the beginning. In fact, "Cortath" was my nation inside the Sons of Liberty, and when I applied to the Meritocracy, I was questioned about my Sons of Liberty ties, and had to have other defenders vouch for the fact that I had been infiltrating them.

[Unibot III]

What's the story on Thomasia? Looks like an imperialist with AA, who went "defender" with ALL with Early Met, then solidly "Neutral" in the Met and spent the rest of his time discussing how one-dimensional Defending, Raiding, Francoism was....

[Bears Armed]

I think I've heard from Free4All and Bears Armed (??? Or The Bruce?) that it was quite common to see Socialists v. Fascists fighting even before invaders were contested by defenders.

That there had been some sort of Left/Right conflict (with the Left-wing regions involved targeting -- and opposed by -- not only fascist regions but various conservative & capitalist ones as well) was definitely the impression that I received from comments in the RMB & original forum of Conservative Paradise, after my original nation joined that region back in the summer of 2005, although the region's involvement in such matters was apparently already pretty much over by then apart from [perhaps] occasional nations participating in ACCEL defensive missions.

[Blackbird]

What's the story on Thomasia? Looks like an imperialist with AA, who went "defender" with ALL with Early Met, then solidly "Neutral" in the Met and spent the rest of his time discussing how one-dimensional Defending, Raiding, Francoism was....

First, let me try my summoning trick. *summons*

But I'll give it a shot myself: Thomasia, or Lord Thom as he was called in the Meritocracy, was one of the "first" Meritocrats, and viewed very highly in our history. A superb speaker, deep RPer, and craft politicians, he was the embodiment of the Meritocrats, along with other storied names such as Winnipeg, Jasque, Argyres, Brittannia, and King Justin.

Because the Meritocracy banned UN Membership, many of its members had UN nations as other, entirely different nations with different RP personas. I was "Cortath" in the Meritocracy, and "Blackbird" with my UN nation, for instance. Other noted members would be Moldavi and Pierconium. Thomasia had Accellsior, the head of Atlantic Central Command.

I don't know how "defender" the early Meritocracy was with ALL. Someone like Free4ALL or Argyres or someone more familiar with that period of Meritocratic history could answer it best.

[Unibot III]

First, let me try my summoning trick. *summons*

I actually contacted him last year about the Gameplay Compass Test. Unfortunately the site was broken (and I didn't know it) - and he ended up doing it seven times and never getting a result.

[Blackbird]

First, let me try my summoning trick. *summons*

I actually contacted him last year about the Gameplay Compass Test. Unfortunately the site was broken (and I didn't know it) - and he ended up doing it seven times and never getting a result.

I contacted him, and asked if he wanted to give his input.

[Unibot III]

I actually contacted him last year about the Gameplay Compass Test. Unfortunately the site was broken (and I didn't know it) - and he ended up doing it seven times and never getting a result.

I contacted him, and asked if he wanted to give his input.

Oh you're a saint. Bless you. *salutes*

[Blackbird]

Thomasia asked me to post the following:

Thanks to Blackbird for letting me know what was happening, and I'll be happy to answer any particular questions through him, though I suspect his recollection is likely to be better than mine.

Regarding my own involvement in NationStates, I see my biggest accomplishment as being one of the founding fathers of the Meritocracy. When we founded the first region, called the Meritocratic Isles, it was so early in the game development that there were only several hundred or slightly over a thousand nations in existence, the UN was actually a manageable proposition, and there was only one Pacific.

I gained notoreity in the early game for managing to have one of the larger user run regions, which were sorted by size in that time. And I managed to pull together a coalition to block a UN resolution that required some government intervention most of our members didn't like. At the time, we advertised ourselves as the libertarian group, though the Meritocracy involved more into a social club that was heavy on RP, but brought together through a respect for sovereignty and seeking highly involved players.

Cortath, as Blackbird was known in his Met guise, can tell you the story of the Meritocracy as well as anyone, but all I will say is the three of us who really made it start were Winnipeg, Eureka, and my own nation, Thomasia. Winnipeg built the infrastructure and was first leader, Eureka brought the character and liveliness to the place, and my job was to build the legal structure from which we would operate and to keep an eye that it ran smoothly. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't, but we had a lot of fun and over time our nations sometimes engaged in some mischief outside the Meritocracy.

More so in the early days than later times, there was a strong bias against the world of NationStates beccause of the limitations of what the game offered. During our heyday, founder control of regions was still pretty absolutist, which perhaps played a part, but we weren't really that big on raiding. Eventually, we didn't even care if people had a nation, so I'm not sure and never have been how that fits in the raider/defender spectrum. For my own part, I felt like I was above that and excepting a few rare episodes, remained that way.

One of those said episodes was masquerading as Accelsior. The Atlantic Central Command had seemed at least a powerful organization, but it had fallen into disrepair for various reasons, and I went in there with the intent of trying to help s0lidify it. I think it was recasting itself into a defensive role, but the leader at the time, whose name sadly escapes me, and I enjoyed a personal correspondence whereby he asked me to take a try.

As an aside, I was actually as interested in the political conversations as anything happening gameside, which Blackbird will attest to, and anyone who has the misfortune of conversing with me for any length of time will quickly learn. But, I agreed to come in, and what we did for a time was have a loose integration between the two structures as a way of convincing some Meritocracy members to engage more within the game.

I can't say how much others got from it, but I think it lasted for a few months and we recruited some interesting people into our world, and then went back to our own internal squabbling, which we generally preferred. Others can tell that story better.

But for Thomasia, which was my primary nation, and at one point became the longest existing nation for which I got some attention, it was a sovereigntist who remained neutral throughout, though I did toy with defending a bit. A few people tried to convince me to become a raider, but I never did not because of any moral objection, but because as Unibot III correctly noted, I found the whole thing tiresome.

[Murder Are High]

Apologies if this topic has been tackled before in this thread:

Who is Empire? What is Empire?

Why do they seem to be so hated?

[Darwinish Brentsylvania]

Apologies if this topic has been tackled before in this thread:

Who is Empire? What is Empire?

Why do they seem to be so hated?

Same. What is it?

[Cormacville]

Apologies if this topic has been tackled before in this thread:

Who is Empire? What is Empire?

Why do they seem to be so hated?

"Empire" refers to The Empire of The East Pacific, the rogue government of The East Pacific under "Lady Phedre" in 2008. More broadly, it's used to describe the four individuals who comprised the core group of this rogue government: Minineenee (Lady Phedre), Biyah (Lord Rahl), Dalimbar (Lady Anastasia), and New Kervoskia (Lord Griffin). There were other members and even leaders of The Empire of The East Pacific but when most people refer to "Empire" they are referring to these four people.

To answer the second part of your question, despite The Empire of The East Pacific being their largest and most successful coup d'etat these four individuals have been involved in upheaval in many of the Feeder and Sinker regions. Dali was responsible for a coup in The North Pacific in 2007. Biyah and Neenee were responsible for upheaval in The West Pacific (that I sadly don't know much about, but maybe someone from TWP can fill in the gaps). Dali and Biyah assisted Sedgistan (Devonitians) near the end of his 2011 coup of The South Pacific and then the latter publicly revealed Sedge's identity, causing upheaval in The Rejected Realms. I believe Neenee also tried to tart her way to the Delegacy in TRR on a few occasions.

More recently, these four (along with Nevadar of Gatesville, who is not Empire, and some other co-conspirators) were responsible for the two day coup d'etat of Osiris in December 2012, but because of their very strong position in the region -- which they had secured through political manipulation, both of the region's legislation and the regional community -- they were not tried or convicted. They manipulated, subverted, and threatened Osiris throughout 2012 and 2013, bringing about the resignations of at least two Delegates through their constant pressure and intimidation. They were finally removed from Osiris in December 2013 by Venico, Koth, and myself, and we proceeded to establish the Osiris Fraternal Order to replace the Kemetic Republic of Osiris that they had so thoroughly rigged to meet their ends of manipulating the region.

Defying all reason, Dali and NK have been welcomed into the highest levels of the government of Lazarus, a defender region (Dali as Governor of Diplomacy, NK as Governor of Information) and Neenee was recently spotted in The West Pacific. One wonders when the Feeders and Sinkers will ever learn their lesson.

Sorry for the novella. That was the concise version.

[Unibot III]

Thomasia asked me to post the following:

*snip*

A lovely post! He seems like a player to miss.

[Blackbird]

Thomasia asked me to post the following:

*snip*

A lovely post! He seems like a player to miss.

Indeed. I miss him a lot. He's a good guy. Him, Argyres, King Justin, Brittania, Jasque, they made the Meritocracy what it was. And us second-generation Meritocrats just tried to fill their big shoes.

[Argyres]

Thomasia asked me to post the following:

*snip*

A lovely post! He seems like a player to miss.

He is/was.

While I didn't always agree with Thom's ideological positions in-game (my first assignment for the Meritocracy was to spy on the ACC in its waning days, for example), he was a tremendous mind with a great deal of passion for the game. Without the efforts of people like him and Winni and Britannia (and even more pugnacious personas like Eureka ), the Meritocracy would not have become the organization it did. His later time in the Senate was not quite as harmonious as we would have liked, in large part because the Meritocracy had moved away from being a primarily ideology-based organization, but he always commanded respect because he knew how to state his positions and then support them with logical arguments, whether you agreed with them or not.

He's written up several historical analyses of the Meritocracy that I enjoyed reading, as well, particularly covering the murky period before the Meritocracy really became an inter-regional presence after withdrawing from the (then) UN.

Indeed. I miss him a lot. He's a good guy. Him, Argyres, King Justin, Brittania, Jasque, they made the Meritocracy what it was. And us second-generation Meritocrats just tried to fill their big shoes.

To be fair to the others whose names you've tarnished by associating them with me - I consider myself a second-generation Meritocrat....they laid in the groundwork and it was Jasque who took what we had and then really pushed the Senate to step outside its own door. I just followed up on it, and I had the advantage of my incomparable wit and undeniable charm.

[Pierconium]

Apologies if this topic has been tackled before in this thread:

Who is Empire? What is Empire?

Why do they seem to be so hated?

"Empire" refers to The Empire of The East Pacific, the rogue government of The East Pacific under "Lady Phedre" in 2008. More broadly, it's used to describe the four individuals who comprised the core group of this rogue government: Minineenee (Lady Phedre), Biyah (Lord Rahl), Dalimbar (Lady Anastasia), and New Kervoskia (Lord Griffin). There were other members and even leaders of The Empire of The East Pacific but when most people refer to "Empire" they are referring to these four people.

To answer the second part of your question, despite The Empire of The East Pacific being their largest and most successful coup d'etat these four individuals have been involved in upheaval in many of the Feeder and Sinker regions. Dali was responsible for a coup in The North Pacific in 2007. Biyah and Neenee were responsible for upheaval in The West Pacific (that I sadly don't know much about, but maybe someone from TWP can fill in the gaps). Dali and Biyah assisted Sedgistan (Devonitians) near the end of his 2011 coup of The South Pacific and then the latter publicly revealed Sedge's identity, causing upheaval in The Rejected Realms. I believe Neenee also tried to tart her way to the Delegacy in TRR on a few occasions.

More recently, these four (along with Nevadar of Gatesville, who is not Empire, and some other co-conspirators) were responsible for the two day coup d'etat of Osiris in December 2012, but because of their very strong position in the region -- which they had secured through political manipulation, both of the region's legislation and the regional community -- they were not tried or convicted. They manipulated, subverted, and threatened Osiris throughout 2012 and 2013, bringing about the resignations of at least two Delegates through their constant pressure and intimidation. They were finally removed from Osiris in December 2013 by Venico, Koth, and myself, and we proceeded to establish the Osiris Fraternal Order to replace the Kemetic Republic of Osiris that they had so thoroughly rigged to meet their ends of manipulating the region.

Defying all reason, Dali and NK have been welcomed into the highest levels of the government of Lazarus, a defender region (Dali as Governor of Diplomacy, NK as Governor of Information) and Neenee was recently spotted in The West Pacific. One wonders when the Feeders and Sinkers will ever learn their lesson.

Sorry for the novella. That was the concise version.

The initial iteration of the Empire was led by a triumvirate of Lady Phedre, Lord Rahl and Lord Darkseid. Darkseid was not involved in the later activities of the Empire outside of TEP and was thus (apparently) written out of the history but he was there in the beginning and had a major role in 2008.

[Anumia]

Ananke is correct about the RKKA: they were very much like a proto-MASS Alliance, but long past the time when the RLA and most other defenders engaged in common defense of everyone. RLA diplomats such as myself spent a lot of effort to try to get the RKKA to become a defender organization, rather than an organization which both defended left-wing regions and counter-attacked their capitalist aggressors.

Things were somewhat simpler, and in some ways less personal, back when it was just left versus right...

[Blackbird]

Ananke is correct about the RKKA: they were very much like a proto-MASS Alliance, but long past the time when the RLA and most other defenders engaged in common defense of everyone. RLA diplomats such as myself spent a lot of effort to try to get the RKKA to become a defender organization, rather than an organization which both defended left-wing regions and counter-attacked their capitalist aggressors.

Things were somewhat simpler, and in some ways less personal, back when it was just left versus right...

Well, yes, but we should be clear it wasn't that simple. It was just left v. right, but also Israel v. Palestine, Northern Ireland v. Ireland, all sorts of RL conflicts played out in NS in those early years, before regions and organizations really coalesced into civilizations/cultures that were extrinsic from the real world.