NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

[Lyanna Stark]

Unknown was originally founded in 2003, according to NSDossier. The Brotherhood of Blood raided and refounded it and set it up as their new home; in fact, there's one version of history in which The Brotherhood of Blood was set up exclusively for that purpose.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the name Unknown was chosen was because nations being resurrected into Lazarus often showed up as being from an un-highlighted Unknown region. I believe that if a nation was rezzed and their prior region had CTEd, they got that listing. By creating the region Unknown, they fooled the game engine into linking back to their region for all such traffic, making them look much bigger than they were. I remember giggling about it at the time as a clever exploit.

I'm not sure about us taking it for that reason (I joined after TBoB became Unknown), but I know for sure that it was really freaking nice while that exploit was in place. Hehehe.

[Frattastan II]

When was the ADN founded? Was it before or after the ALL?

[Unibot III]

When was the ADN founded? Was it before or after the ALL?

Well, the ADN Constitution was enacted February 28, 2004, but that's definitely too late, so there had to be a period where they operated without a Constitution. There's a region called "Alliance Defense Network" as of July 18, 2003. A lot of the problem for finding dates is the first two forums of the ADN are kept under complete lock-down.

Um, I can say that going through NationStates Radio, during 2003, I was surprised to see The ADN wasn't mentioned anywhere. In October 2003, Mendanau was interviewed by NS Radio and it sounds like at the time he was just RRA -- the interviewer never asked him about The ADN which would appear to be a glaring omission (since Mendanau was a co-founder) unless The ADN wasn't really much of anything at the time.

With A.L.L doing advertising and recruitment by June 20 2003 -- I'm going to put my money on A.L.L. See here: http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/89908-1.htm

[Alyekra]

Unibot mentions "Westwind’s 'Post-Defender Age'" in his Paradise Found, I got the idea that it was the era after Regional Influence was implemented when many people considered Defenderism untenable as a philosophical stance, but who is Westwind and what does he have to do with it?

[Ballotonia]

When was the ADN founded? Was it before or after the ALL?

Well, the ADN Constitution was enacted February 28, 2004, but that's definitely too late, so there had to be a period where they operated without a Constitution. There's a region called "Alliance Defense Network" as of July 18, 2003. A lot of the problem for finding dates is the first two forums of the ADN are kept under complete lock-down.

Um, I can say that going through NationStates Radio, during 2003, I was surprised to see The ADN wasn't mentioned anywhere. In October 2003, Mendanau was interviewed by NS Radio and it sounds like at the time he was just RRA -- the interviewer never asked him about The ADN which would appear to be a glaring omission (since Mendanau was a co-founder) unless The ADN wasn't really much of anything at the time.

With A.L.L doing advertising and recruitment by June 20 2003 -- I'm going to put my money on A.L.L. See here: http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/89908-1.htm

For clarity: that's in reference to the original ALL, which was an initiative which I think started in the Meritocracy. It collapsed quite dramatically (ugly event, related to Merit's meddling with the Atlantic Alliance back then) and was reconstituted on August 5 2003 into the A.L.L. (when officially the dots were added to the name, though it seems hardly anyone noticed the difference) with North America, Holland/Nederland, and Utopia as the founding regions.

Ballotonia

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the name Unknown was chosen was because nations being resurrected into Lazarus often showed up as being from an un-highlighted Unknown region. I believe that if a nation was rezzed and their prior region had CTEd, they got that listing. By creating the region Unknown, they fooled the game engine into linking back to their region for all such traffic, making them look much bigger than they were. I remember giggling about it at the time as a clever exploit.

I'm not sure about us taking it for that reason (I joined after TBoB became Unknown), but I know for sure that it was really freaking nice while that exploit was in place. Hehehe.

I've actually heard that reason before, so I assume it must have weight to it.

[Blackbird]

Well, the ADN Constitution was enacted February 28, 2004, but that's definitely too late, so there had to be a period where they operated without a Constitution. There's a region called "Alliance Defense Network" as of July 18, 2003. A lot of the problem for finding dates is the first two forums of the ADN are kept under complete lock-down.

Um, I can say that going through NationStates Radio, during 2003, I was surprised to see The ADN wasn't mentioned anywhere. In October 2003, Mendanau was interviewed by NS Radio and it sounds like at the time he was just RRA -- the interviewer never asked him about The ADN which would appear to be a glaring omission (since Mendanau was a co-founder) unless The ADN wasn't really much of anything at the time.

With A.L.L doing advertising and recruitment by June 20 2003 -- I'm going to put my money on A.L.L. See here: http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/89908-1.htm

For clarity: that's in reference to the original ALL, which was an initiative which I think started in the Meritocracy. It collapsed quite dramatically (ugly event, related to Merit's meddling with the Atlantic Alliance back then) and was reconstituted on August 5 2003 into the A.L.L. (when officially the dots were added to the name, though it seems hardly anyone noticed the difference) with North America, Holland/Nederland, and Utopia as the founding regions.

Ballotonia

"Meddling" perhaps isn't a strong enough word. A Meritocratic Senator, one of the most prominent, ran the Atlantic Central Command after all.

[Libetarian Republics]

I keep hearing the Meritocracy and been trying to figure out what it is. Mind if anyone lend a hand?

[Kogvuron]

I keep hearing the Meritocracy and been trying to figure out what it is. Mind if anyone lend a hand?

Member of ACCEL, home to many prominent NS players, including many of the major players involved in the ADN vs NPO conflict. Can't tell you much more than that. I'd ask Blackbird if you'd like to know more

[The Bruce]

The original Meritocracy was hoping to bend the UN to its will and impose its capitalist vision on the NationStates World, but when they were unable to out legislate against the socialists, the anti-UN policy came into vogue in the Meritocracy. The Meritocracy also encountered schisms, as they fragmented into a number of different regions. They were also a member of MATCO (an Alliance of Capitalist Regions). The following is for those interested in knowing the History of the Meritocracy, from the horses mouth itself (in this case Thomasia, one of the more senior nations). This text was taken from the "History of Everything" from the old NationStates Forum, back in 2004:

"The History of The New Meritocracy and its illustrious predecessors... Volume One

Chapter I: The Meritocratic Isles

The Meritocratic Isles, which are now a satellite region of The New Meritocracy was our original home. The region was one of the first in the game, as I created it about a week into the game. My nation, which is presently fourth oldest, noticed from the onset that there was no home for capitalist nations who tended to have a conservative or libertarian bent. For that reason, the Meritocratic Isles was founded, and it would grow rapidly.

In the beginning, our goal was simple enough. We were a region of like minded nations who wanted to work within the UN to promote our agenda. More remarkably, as we had a few friends, like the recently attacked Capitalist Alliance, we were able to make this difference. I used to send out hundreds of recruitment letters, and when the game had about 5000 nations, the Meritocratic Isles had around 130 members. With that sort of clout, we really could impact the United Nations, as our alliances brought us to control about 8% of the vote there. Our crowning achievement, and the glory of the Meritocratic Isles, and my own reign as Delegate was the defeat of a mandatory living wage. It lost by about 30 votes, and I controlled 50 at that time. We felt like we accomplished something.

Yet, the Isles were more than a solitary effort as we had a government of our own. To the best of my knowledge, we were the first region to develop a government outside of nationstates, which was a combined effort by several nations. I was proud to work with Xalanzia, Eureka, Britannia, and Sanctuary at the beginning, as we formed our government. The Meritocratic Isles featured a charter, a beautiful mosaic map, a census, and a fifteen member cabinet. The Prime Minister, highest office of that body, was appointed delegate under law and was responsible to the Cabinet to enforce their will. Things were good, at first.

However, as we are not there now, you can safely assume things went badly. As the world continued to expand, we lost our influence within the United Nations. It was especially aggravating because before I left the role of Delegate, I enjoyed 83 endorsements, but I found that we were unable to make any difference as we could neither influence U.N. votes, nor did we have the numbers to win any proposal. For myself, the last straw was when my painstakingly crafted "Sovereignty Act" was ignored, because it would have limited the U.N. to an appropriate level, but it was impossible to get people to listen.

All institutions and bureaucracies function less effectively as their size grows. This happened to both the United Nations and the Meritocratic Isles. Both lost focus, and descended to petty squabbling, with the U.N. spiraling into helpless oblivion. So, the last great act we made in the Meritocratic Isles was a mass withdrawal from the U.N. in protest, because we felt that our nations sovereignty should not be subject to the whims of an amorphous mass. Some of our members did not feel this was the best course, and many ended up in Capitalist Alliance or Armageddon, as they were determined to continue to try and resuscitate the United Nations. For our part, we thought this folly, even before region stealing became possible, but we retain friendships with many of those region, despite this schism.

Anyway, after we withdrew from the United Nations, the game withered. The change between trying to change the world and creating something altogether new was formidable. Many lost interest, including myself for a good while. Thomasia almost vanished, as many nations did, because we lost our sense of purpose in the world. We did the right thing, but we had all perfected our nations long since, and what purpose was there. I departed.

II. The Collapse of the Isles

This is the part I know least well, as it was my absence which had precipitated the fall of the Isles. Since I was responsible for designing the Cabinet, I placed myself in a position where my role as arbiter was unquestioned, but when I left, there were massive disputes over the succession. Although Xalanzia had been listed as Deputy Prime Minister to try and alleviate this very issue, the latent rivalries and differences between some of our diverse members led inexorably to civil war, and the fall of the Isles.

As best I can tell, there were two sides in the dispute. There was a side of usurpers with some nation named Beerovia, whom I never knew, and a group of nations led by Eureka on the other hand who represented most of the Old Guard. Beerovia assumed the vacant U.N. delegacy and tried to reshape the Isles through that authority, even though my final act as Prime Minister was to separate the authority of the United Nations Delegate from the execute head of the confederation.

This continued for about a month, as the population of the Isles was halved, and the dream seemed dead. Certainly, I believed so, but in all the effort we had made, an enduring core remained. The few true believers who wanted to make it work left the Isles, as it was in self-destructive disarray. King Justin the Brave, the Senator from Eureka, took the initiative to lead a few people who wanted to rebuild to a new region. I remember this clearly because it was he who drew me, like so many others, back from the edge.

III. New Meritocracy

The new region was called the "New Meritocracy" and things went well there. We designed a new government, having learned from our previous mistakes. The members trusted me to design some sort of system, and this time we removed all the superfluous office, and made a Senate composed of equals where all members could reside. Periodically, the Senate would appoint a Consul to serve as executive, a Tribune to interpret the laws, a Praetor to handle affairs of state, and a Censor to handle the membership. Using a loose interpretation of Rome, Marcus Isles, represented in the honorable Consul Kenneth Fox, and I worked to create a document to please everyone.

The charter which you see today is an amalgamation of our ideas and the will of the Senate since that day. Although Marcus Isles is no longer with us, as he is on personal leave, he shall always be remembered and welcomed as a leader. Anyway, things went well, and although we were a small region, we were united in purpose and in belief. All was going admirably, as we were content to remain quiet and enjoy the friendships our nations had forged, with an occasional newcomer entering.

However, as a region, the first issue which clearly divided us concerned the United Nations. Almost all of the members had chosen to leave the United Nations, but a few, most notably Old Carthage, asked if that should be obligatory. As the original justification for this new region and our exodus from the United Nations had been that it was an infringement upon the sovereignty of the state, we debated heartily on whether Meritocrats should be allowed to be in the U.N. and the Senate. Eventually, by a slim majority, the Senate allowed participation in the U.N., with the explicit understanding that the true authority of the region rests with the Consul. At the time this seemed most fair, and though we were all somewhat uncomfortable with this arrangement, things continued well enough. Old Carthage was serving as Delegate, and we assumed that as someone who had been with us for some time, that nothing bad would come to happen during his tenancy of the Delegate position.

Things were proceeding normally, because although we did not agree upon everything, as republics tend not to, relations between all our nations were cordial. The Charter came into being, as we refined the offices and procedures which you now observe. Our forums and features were painstakingly developed through the ideas of the Senators, and the formidable talents of Lord Curzon of Britannia and Field Marshal Robert Isoeph of Winnipeg. All was perfect, but then Old Carthage committed the crime of treason against his fellow Senators.

Claiming that Eureka and Xalanzia were plotting against him, he used the newly instituted capacity to reject members over the will of the Senate, to expel two of the senior statesmen, including the founder of the region. In response, the Senate has banned him from our presence, and we were forced to leave our second home in the "New Meritocracy". Old Carthage brought in a number of dummy states, and false allies to gain his position, abusing the U.N. Delegate position in a way which shocked and offended us all. This is the origin of the dispute with Old Carthage, and this also marked the end of the second incarnation of our region.

IV. The New Meritocracy

Seeing that we could not regain our region, we chose to move for once and for all to a secure region, where the Senate could choose a founder, and where we could never fall victim to the marauding nations who use the United Nations as a front. Retaining all the forums, the Senators moved en masse to The New Meritocracy, which would not have the ambivalence of the former region. The first act, passed by unanimous accord, was to disallow any U.N. member to the Senate, or even to reside in our region. Given the new threat, we all agreed this was a necessary step."

[Argyres]

If you've got specific questions feel free to throw them out, quite a few of the older/more experienced Meritocrats are still around (Blackbird, Punk, Eli).

Most of the basics were covered - we were pro-market (except Blackbird ), leaned libertarian. We had a pretty sophisticated/well-run regional government (the Senate) that we RPed/acted out extensively with. Foreign policy-wise...we were essentially neutral officially, but had close ties with several regions and were members of several alliances (MACTO, A.L.L, ACCEL) and we had pretty extensive involvement in diplomacy for awhile.

After some time, the pro-market/capitalist side of things kind of tapered off as official policy, though, and the Meritocracy/Senate became more of an intellectual meetingplace for "Important people".

[The Blaatschapen]

"The History of The New Meritocracy and its illustrious predecessors... Volume One

Chapter I: The Meritocratic Isles

The Meritocratic Isles, which are now a satellite region of The New Meritocracy was our original home. The region was one of the first in the game, as I created it about a week into the game. My nation, which is presently fourth oldest, noticed from the onset that there was no home for capitalist nations who tended to have a conservative or libertarian bent. For that reason, the Meritocratic Isles was founded, and it would grow rapidly.

In the beginning, our goal was simple enough. We were a region of like minded nations who wanted to work within the UN to promote our agenda. More remarkably, as we had a few friends, like the recently attacked Capitalist Alliance, we were able to make this difference. I used to send out hundreds of recruitment letters, and when the game had about 5000 nations, the Meritocratic Isles had around 130 members. With that sort of clout, we really could impact the United Nations, as our alliances brought us to control about 8% of the vote there. Our crowning achievement, and the glory of the Meritocratic Isles, and my own reign as Delegate was the defeat of a mandatory living wage. It lost by about 30 votes, and I controlled 50 at that time. We felt like we accomplished something.

Yet, the Isles were more than a solitary effort as we had a government of our own. To the best of my knowledge, we were the first region to develop a government outside of nationstates, which was a combined effort by several nations. I was proud to work with Xalanzia, Eureka, Britannia, and Sanctuary at the beginning, as we formed our government. The Meritocratic Isles featured a charter, a beautiful mosaic map, a census, and a fifteen member cabinet. The Prime Minister, highest office of that body, was appointed delegate under law and was responsible to the Cabinet to enforce their will. Things were good, at first.

However, as we are not there now, you can safely assume things went badly. As the world continued to expand, we lost our influence within the United Nations. It was especially aggravating because before I left the role of Delegate, I enjoyed 83 endorsements, but I found that we were unable to make any difference as we could neither influence U.N. votes, nor did we have the numbers to win any proposal. For myself, the last straw was when my painstakingly crafted "Sovereignty Act" was ignored, because it would have limited the U.N. to an appropriate level, but it was impossible to get people to listen.

All institutions and bureaucracies function less effectively as their size grows. This happened to both the United Nations and the Meritocratic Isles. Both lost focus, and descended to petty squabbling, with the U.N. spiraling into helpless oblivion. So, the last great act we made in the Meritocratic Isles was a mass withdrawal from the U.N. in protest, because we felt that our nations sovereignty should not be subject to the whims of an amorphous mass. Some of our members did not feel this was the best course, and many ended up in Capitalist Alliance or Armageddon, as they were determined to continue to try and resuscitate the United Nations. For our part, we thought this folly, even before region stealing became possible, but we retain friendships with many of those region, despite this schism.

Anyway, after we withdrew from the United Nations, the game withered. The change between trying to change the world and creating something altogether new was formidable. Many lost interest, including myself for a good while. Thomasia almost vanished, as many nations did, because we lost our sense of purpose in the world. We did the right thing, but we had all perfected our nations long since, and what purpose was there. I departed.

II. The Collapse of the Isles

This is the part I know least well, as it was my absence which had precipitated the fall of the Isles. Since I was responsible for designing the Cabinet, I placed myself in a position where my role as arbiter was unquestioned, but when I left, there were massive disputes over the succession. Although Xalanzia had been listed as Deputy Prime Minister to try and alleviate this very issue, the latent rivalries and differences between some of our diverse members led inexorably to civil war, and the fall of the Isles.

As best I can tell, there were two sides in the dispute. There was a side of usurpers with some nation named Beerovia, whom I never knew, and a group of nations led by Eureka on the other hand who represented most of the Old Guard. Beerovia assumed the vacant U.N. delegacy and tried to reshape the Isles through that authority, even though my final act as Prime Minister was to separate the authority of the United Nations Delegate from the execute head of the confederation.

This continued for about a month, as the population of the Isles was halved, and the dream seemed dead. Certainly, I believed so, but in all the effort we had made, an enduring core remained. The few true believers who wanted to make it work left the Isles, as it was in self-destructive disarray. King Justin the Brave, the Senator from Eureka, took the initiative to lead a few people who wanted to rebuild to a new region. I remember this clearly because it was he who drew me, like so many others, back from the edge.

III. New Meritocracy

The new region was called the "New Meritocracy" and things went well there. We designed a new government, having learned from our previous mistakes. The members trusted me to design some sort of system, and this time we removed all the superfluous office, and made a Senate composed of equals where all members could reside. Periodically, the Senate would appoint a Consul to serve as executive, a Tribune to interpret the laws, a Praetor to handle affairs of state, and a Censor to handle the membership. Using a loose interpretation of Rome, Marcus Isles, represented in the honorable Consul Kenneth Fox, and I worked to create a document to please everyone.

The charter which you see today is an amalgamation of our ideas and the will of the Senate since that day. Although Marcus Isles is no longer with us, as he is on personal leave, he shall always be remembered and welcomed as a leader. Anyway, things went well, and although we were a small region, we were united in purpose and in belief. All was going admirably, as we were content to remain quiet and enjoy the friendships our nations had forged, with an occasional newcomer entering.

However, as a region, the first issue which clearly divided us concerned the United Nations. Almost all of the members had chosen to leave the United Nations, but a few, most notably Old Carthage, asked if that should be obligatory. As the original justification for this new region and our exodus from the United Nations had been that it was an infringement upon the sovereignty of the state, we debated heartily on whether Meritocrats should be allowed to be in the U.N. and the Senate. Eventually, by a slim majority, the Senate allowed participation in the U.N., with the explicit understanding that the true authority of the region rests with the Consul. At the time this seemed most fair, and though we were all somewhat uncomfortable with this arrangement, things continued well enough. Old Carthage was serving as Delegate, and we assumed that as someone who had been with us for some time, that nothing bad would come to happen during his tenancy of the Delegate position.

Things were proceeding normally, because although we did not agree upon everything, as republics tend not to, relations between all our nations were cordial. The Charter came into being, as we refined the offices and procedures which you now observe. Our forums and features were painstakingly developed through the ideas of the Senators, and the formidable talents of Lord Curzon of Britannia and Field Marshal Robert Isoeph of Winnipeg. All was perfect, but then Old Carthage committed the crime of treason against his fellow Senators.

Claiming that Eureka and Xalanzia were plotting against him, he used the newly instituted capacity to reject members over the will of the Senate, to expel two of the senior statesmen, including the founder of the region. In response, the Senate has banned him from our presence, and we were forced to leave our second home in the "New Meritocracy". Old Carthage brought in a number of dummy states, and false allies to gain his position, abusing the U.N. Delegate position in a way which shocked and offended us all. This is the origin of the dispute with Old Carthage, and this also marked the end of the second incarnation of our region.

IV. The New Meritocracy

Seeing that we could not regain our region, we chose to move for once and for all to a secure region, where the Senate could choose a founder, and where we could never fall victim to the marauding nations who use the United Nations as a front. Retaining all the forums, the Senators moved en masse to The New Meritocracy, which would not have the ambivalence of the former region. The first act, passed by unanimous accord, was to disallow any U.N. member to the Senate, or even to reside in our region. Given the new threat, we all agreed this was a necessary step."

I'm reposting this, since the blue colour makes it hard to read in the black theme.

[Nevthronia]

Just out of curiosity, is there a list anywhere of the top WA Resolution authors? I feel like I've seen one at NSWiki at some point in time, but if it's there I can't find it anymore.

[The Bruce]

I was wondering what the origin of the Pouchiness and Anti-Marsupial debate that was mostly seen in the feeders. I'm inclined to blame Tao, but would like to hear from some pouchie individual about its roots.

[Darkesia]

TAO's Mr Stick is to be thanked for bringing to light the dangers of fraternizing with pouchies which will inevitably lead our youth to roo-fur madness.

[Sierra Lobo]

So how about lemmings? Are they born from the pouch?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

viewtopic.php?p=14859081#p14859081

Can someone please get these damed generalites out of Gameplay.

These jerks and the RPers are the reason we stopped frequenting the on-site forums, prompting giving us our own section.
If they want to argue these same old highschool themes they can go back where they belong.

How about you ease up off the inflammatory rhetoric before there's trouble, thanks. There's plenty of crossover. And I really don't think you want to get into the whole 'back where they belong' argument, seeing as how many non-Gameplayers are affected, and have been affected since your brand of play began, by your politics, choices, and actions. Chilly down, people.

Given that I can think of nothing, I have to turn to here. What is this "brand of play" that DLN is referring to that is apparently stereotyped by Darkesia? Because I'm looking at this thinking DLN has gone off the deep end.

[Mallorea and Riva]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=14859081#p14859081

How about you ease up off the inflammatory rhetoric before there's trouble, thanks. There's plenty of crossover. And I really don't think you want to get into the whole 'back where they belong' argument, seeing as how many non-Gameplayers are affected, and have been affected since your brand of play began, by your politics, choices, and actions. Chilly down, people.

Given that I can think of nothing, I have to turn to here. What is this "brand of play" that DLN is referring to that is apparently stereotyped by Darkesia? Because I'm looking at this thinking DLN has gone off the deep end.

Gameplaying is bad since it is the only aspect of NationStates that can force other players to play our little games. Of course that is actually why Gameplay is good, but some people don't appreciate that. It paints us all with the same brush to be sure, but DLN may be aware of Dark's horrible past

And ultimately Sedge agreed with Dark in concept, if not in his choice of wording.

[Punk Daddy]

Missed the whole conversation of the Merit…and while I joined The Meritocracy in 2005, am an admin on the boards, and probably its most prolific poster since 2010, I consider myself a Merit newbie.

But at its height, the Meritocracy was the place for notable gameplayers to be. If you were a gameplayer of any kind of note back then you either were a member of The Meritocracy or felt that the Meritocracy was idiotic. Either way, you had an opinion on the subject.

Prior to this, the history above shows how the Meritocracy was able to establish credibility within the NS world. That credibility, imo, is what led to it being the place for the best gameplayers.

In 2005, the root forum admin and founder of the region The New Meritocracy, Winnipeg, moved the forums and in effect destroyed the original Charter.

I’d say between 2006 and 2008, the Merit began to decline just like the rest of NationStates. Older players started leaving and weren’t being replaced by new ones. We tried a number of things to stay alive such as getting involved with a game called Ikariam. But that didn’t work. We rebooted in 2010 and that was also short-lived.

Currently, there are discussions going on around restarting the meritocracy. During those conversations, I’ve made comment (paraphrasing): the current state of NationStates does not hold within people who are of a high political quality. Very few, if any, of today’s leaders would have gained entrance in the old Meritocracy because their capabilities are not of the same standard. Today’s player takes too much personally, is more tactical than strategic, and is quick to jump on whatever new fancy there is.

That’s my opinion and Milograd had more faith in today’s player. Still, you may see new things from The Meritocracy and I challenge those who consider themselves ‘notable’ by today’s NS standards to consider The Meritocracy. At its zenith…the Meritocracy was just that, with the best ideas and best politicians able to navigate to the top of this storied organization.

[Cerian Quilor]

Please, enlighten us with your ancient wisdom. I cannot get enough of the oldsters talking about how the modern NS is a pale shadow of the pure awesome they lived in, and its ALL OUR FAULT and how they're totally not looking at the past with a gold tint.

[The Blaatschapen]

Missed the whole conversation of the Merit…and while I joined The Meritocracy in 2005, am an admin on the boards, and probably its most prolific poster since 2010, I consider myself a Merit newbie.

But at its height, the Meritocracy was the place for notable gameplayers to be. If you were a gameplayer of any kind of note back then you either were a member of The Meritocracy or felt that the Meritocracy was idiotic. Either way, you had an opinion on the subject.

Prior to this, the history above shows how the Meritocracy was able to establish credibility within the NS world. That credibility, imo, is what led to it being the place for the best gameplayers.

In 2005, the root forum admin and founder of the region The New Meritocracy, Winnipeg, moved the forums and in effect destroyed the original Charter.

I’d say between 2006 and 2008, the Merit began to decline just like the rest of NationStates. Older players started leaving and weren’t being replaced by new ones. We tried a number of things to stay alive such as getting involved with a game called Ikariam. But that didn’t work. We rebooted in 2010 and that was also short-lived.

Currently, there are discussions going on around restarting the meritocracy. During those conversations, I’ve made comment (paraphrasing): the current state of NationStates does not hold within people who are of a high political quality. Very few, if any, of today’s leaders would have gained entrance in the old Meritocracy because their capabilities are not of the same standard. Today’s player takes too much personally, is more tactical than strategic, and is quick to jump on whatever new fancy there is.

That’s my opinion and Milograd had more faith in today’s player. Still, you may see new things from The Meritocracy and I challenge those who consider themselves ‘notable’ by today’s NS standards to consider The Meritocracy. At its zenith…the Meritocracy was just that, with the best ideas and best politicians able to navigate to the top of this storied organization.

Then maybe you shouldn't look at today's leaders, but rather at today's grunts and others in the background? There might be some pearls there

[Punk Daddy]

Please, enlighten us with your ancient wisdom. I cannot get enough of the oldsters talking about how the modern NS is a pale shadow of the pure awesome they lived in, and its ALL OUR FAULT and how they're totally not looking at the past with a gold tint.

It would be one thing if I was a retired player and making these comments. But I am the FA Minister of The West Pacific and a current Justice of The North Pacific. And who the heck knows what I may be doing behind the scenes. Suffice to say, I've been pretty much active within the game for 9 years.

I feel fairly confident in making the statement that gameplay today is nowhere close to what it was 'back in the old days'. You had real wars with the NPO/ADN. You had massive struggles within the feeders. You had UCRs, like The Meritocracy, that were integral to overall gameplay shaping and directing its course.

You had players who *cough cough* didn't take everything as a RL personal affront, but played this game...like a game.

It's not your fault you weren't there, but for those of us that were there and are still here, it's night and day. That's not looking at the past with a gold tint, that's looking at the past and comparing it with the present eyes wide open.

As many of us have said ad nauseum, influence killed the game we played. And for some reason the type of player that is attracted to the game today, in my opinion, is not of the same quality of past players. Milo argued that new players havent had the opportunities to prove themselves like old players. As I said, the old days were fun in that things weren't so static so adaptation was critical to success and survival. Today's influence laden world isn't like that at all. If Milo had couped TSP back in the day, he'd still be delegate and the 'natives' would need to adapt to figure out a way to root him out. They couldnt rely on a big influence nation to eventually just overtake him.

...yeah...the old days were fun.

[Solorni]

I'm not sure if that's saying that the leaders were better then, but rather that the game itself was better in your opinion.

[The Bruce]

People weren’t any less petty and vicious back then, than they are now. There was however much more to be petty and vicious about in the early years of NationStates. There will always be new players of quality emerging that want to dedicate their time to the game, provided there is enough active players left for them to interact with and they are given the opportunity to do so.

Invaders are more sophisticated than they used to be and a large part of that is that defenders have forced them to step up their game (although game system rules haven’t kept pace with the current state of imbalance in the invader-defender conflict). Invaders can no longer get away with regularly and flagrantly multying, and over the top behavior that would get them Mod bombed today. Where invaders have become complacent is in their current state of chumminess towards each other, to stave off group inactivity; no longer hunting other invader regions as ultimate prizes. Where invaders have devolved is in using what used to be considered training missions (tiny, inactive regions) as primary targets to stay away from defenders and then crowing about their easy victories, as if they’d actually accomplished something. It’s kind of embarrassing.

A lot of the wistful thinking about the wild days of the early game is done without remembering that it was also a time when the things being regularly posted would make people on 4chan blush. Before we got regional powers and active Mods, if some troll took up residence in your region you had to wait until either they got tired of griefing you or you made them cry enough to leave on their own.

The game system used to be very clunky and generally spiraling out of control, compared to the sleek features the game system enjoys today. The original UN construct was unwieldy and the NS Forum was the thing of nightmares in terms of functional use. It’s a shame we didn’t have many of the current features back when there was so many more players and so much more energy in the game. Although we could have lived without the griefing bloodbath that the existence of the Security Council would have caused back in 2002-05.

[Cerian Quilor]

The problem with your thesis, Bruce, regarding Invaders not invading invaders is because any RAIDER region that is worth its salt has an active founder, rendering raids on other raiders fundamentally useless. And actually, defenders like the UDL and the FRA defend the tiny regions, making them not ways to avoid defenders. Add to that the limited number of non-tiny targets (and how most of then require numbers that take a bit of planning to make hittable to get the numbers you need), and the tag-sprees make sense.

____

Influence did not kill the game, PD. If you're going to complain about the lack of 'real' wars, then the blame needs to be laid squarely at the feet if Founders.

While yes, I was not there, and I cannot deny that the game was obviously differant, I do reject the notion that it was better. Obviously, your tastes run more to what you experienced first, which is entirely understandable.

And you overreact to a releativally small number of gameplayers who get RL butthurt about things in the game. Many gameplayers, including myself, fully understand that this is just a game and react accordingly. The majority.