NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

[Argyres]

Low blow, comrade.

[Blackbird]

Low blow, comrade.

Well, I can only assume I was admitted because of the high-esteem that that Proconsul must have held for me, or the bribes. Yeah, it was probably all the bribes.

[Crazy girl]

I remember being lictor at some point. And senator twice.

[Argyres]

I didn't know if you qualified as still around

[Crazy girl]

Depends on what you'd call "around". I haven't looked at the Merit's forums in aaages.

[Cerian Quilor]

Apart from Texas, 10KI and the GCRs, what are some other regions that have been around for eight or more years?

[Blackbird]

Apart from Texas, 10KI and the GCRs, what are some other regions that have been around for eight or more years?

My region, the Proletariat Coalition.

[Milograd]

Apart from Texas, 10KI and the GCRs, what are some other regions that have been around for eight or more years?

Haven, The Heartlands, Yggdrasil, Zhaucauozian Friendship, Gholgoth, Lavinium, Gay, Raumreich Oversector, Hell, That Place Over There, Equilism, Space Sector RPRA, Stargate, Greater Prussia, Tareldanore, New York, The Vast, NationStates, SPACE, Africa, the Proletariat Coalition, Greece, Europa, Atlantian Oceania, The Moon, Nederland, Belgium, Wysteria, and One big Island immediately come to my mind. Of course, there are plenty of regions that are over eight years old, too.

[Mousebumples]

Apart from Texas, 10KI and the GCRs, what are some other regions that have been around for eight or more years?

Haven, The Heartlands, Yggdrasil, Zhaucauozian Friendship, Gholgoth, Lavinium, Gay, Raumreich Oversector, Hell, That Place Over There, Equilism, Space Sector RPRA, Stargate, Greater Prussia, Tareldanore, New York, The Vast, NationStates, SPACE, Africa, the Proletariat Coalition, Greece, Europa, Atlantian Oceania, The Moon, Nederland, Belgium, Wysteria, and One big Island immediately come to my mind. Of course, there are plenty of regions that are over eight years old, too.

My region (Monkey Island) has ... sorta been around for 8+ years. (We refounded a few years back after a raid.) I think our 10 year anniversary will be coming up sometime in early 2003 - potentially sooner, but none of the original nations from way back then are around anymore for me to ask when it was founded. The earliest record on NS History is May 2003 - but I think that's when the database was first started.

[Argyres]

The Meritocracy (as a government)....I'm not sure when they moved to The New Meritocracy (the region) but it was before I joined which was back in November 2003.

Don't listen to Blackbird though, they redistributed the years the region was around to be given equally to other communist regions.

[Blackbird]

The Meritocracy (as a government)....I'm not sure when they moved to The New Meritocracy (the region) but it was before I joined which was back in November 2003.

Don't listen to Blackbird though, they redistributed the years the region was around to be given equally to other communist regions.

*chuckles* I don't recall when the New Meritocracy was formed. It predates my admittance to the Senate. It's my recollection that it was ancient history, even then.

[The Bruce]

Does anybody else remember Eire Shamrock?

He was the delegate of Ireland, back during the early, nationalist driven days of raiding, with England vs Ireland one of the more bitterly contested fights. He tried to unite all the Irish themed regions into a single group, but was thwarted from adding Blarney Castle to the gang. The Farkers (led in that raid by LeWonkatania) had conned the Mods into making them the founder of the recently invaded region of Blarney Castle and not only would they not give it back, but used it to taunt the Irish with. I seem to remember that they drove Eire Shamrock a bit crazy with their griefing.

I'm pretty certain that Eire Shamrock was one of the more dynamic early personalities of raiding and that that personality pretty much led him to being DOS by the end of his NS days. I'm not completely certain, but there also might have been some UN multying happening. Eire Shamrock expanded their raider role from their traditional grudge match with British themed regions to attacking others, but I can't remember quite how widespread their activities were (some of the earliest defenders should have records on them). I'm pretty certain I was busy with real life during the events that got them deleted from the game, so I can't remember what exactly happened to them. They did however, have one of the cooler flags of the NS World.

Does anyone remember more about this player/nation?

Also, could we get this thread pinned, please?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Apart from Texas, 10KI and the GCRs, what are some other regions that have been around for eight or more years?

Haven, The Heartlands, Yggdrasil, Zhaucauozian Friendship, Gholgoth, Lavinium, Gay, Raumreich Oversector, Hell, That Place Over There, Equilism, Space Sector RPRA, Stargate, Greater Prussia, Tareldanore, New York, The Vast, NationStates, SPACE, Africa, the Proletariat Coalition, Greece, Europa, Atlantian Oceania, The Moon, Nederland, Belgium, Wysteria, and One big Island immediately come to my mind. Of course, there are plenty of regions that are over eight years old, too.

The earliest NSHistory data for Unknown is from the 28th of May, 2003. There was obviously a vast change in government direction on the 12th of January, 2009, so I'm not sure if it counts.

[Ananke II]

Does anybody else remember Eire Shamrock?

Who could ever forget Eire Shamrock? I don't remember what got his nation deleted initially. I expect it might've had something to do with him telling someone to fuck off in no uncertain terms a few too many times though. I did follow the puppet campaign on the forum which got him DOS'ed however. That was quite the show...

[Blackbird]

Does anybody else remember Eire Shamrock?

My recollection is pretty vague. I remember hearing about him the most through Eurosoviets and other ASEers, because he tried to get the Allied States of Euroislanders on his side, or something. Or maybe he opposed them. I don't recall.

[Unibot III]

He was quite an amusing fellow:

http://networkradio.proboards.com/index ... thread=195
http://z7.invisionfree.invalid.com/NBC/ar/t52.htm

Here's the history behind his DEAT in his own words:

Why are you a DEAT-on-sight nation?

First off, I would like to thank you for this interview, you're extremely respected around the Nationstates world for your reportage of the important events, and it's an honour.

The answer to your first question is not a simple one. I love roleplaying in Nationstates, and the various characthers I've had were larger than life characthers that sought greatness and never stepped down from any and all challengers. My own actions, combined with my flippant attitudes towards the Mods and the fact that I knew too much about the way they conducted themselves in this game led to my DEAT status.

To be honest I never really was able to keep up with how the game itself changed from an unmoderated wild west style, spontanaeous style of playing forum to the highly regulated, stultifying, mod ruled, hyper politically correct game it is now. For instance, when I first started this game there was a character named Wotan Die Konig, that fought these marauding bands of ultra liberal pirates. Wotan used to spam the boards when they took over a region, and everyone had a lot of fun in those days. Wotan fought for these pirates in many regions, but the pirates gave him a bad name due to his helping a region named the "axis" which was a hotbed for the far right. Wotan really thought most of the far right people were nutters, he just liked a good fight, and the animosity between the liberal pirates and Wotan continued, some say it still continues to this day.

Then Eire Shamrock, Irish ultra nationalist came along, again with a penchant for fighting the pirates. Now most of the formerly pirate nations are in the ADN, so it's not too shocking that they now like to fight Eire's son, Prodigal Fenian. Eire was killed by the mods for flaming another Irish nation he was friends with. The mods basically had it out for Eire for well being Eire and challenging their authority. Most mods are much like Cartman from "South Park", they don't like people questioning their authority. All of the offenses that Eire and Prodigal Fenian were deleted for were offenses that would not have been deletable ones in the old style of the game, the "golden age" of Nationstates. Most people that remember this time period fondly recall those founderless, less moderated, halcyon days of Nationstates, where it was a veritable free for all.

I'd say most of these characthers, Eire, PF, were kind of abrasive, loud, sometimes rude, forceful, but along with some of the other colorful characthers from Ireland, it put us on the Nationstates map, we're well known, well liked, well loathed in some quarters as well, but mostly entertaining! Why do I keep coming back even though I have DEAT status? Because I don't believe in it, I think the mods act silly so why should they be the final arbiter? They like to bring up non-sensical arguments such as, "cause we can", etc. That's really only good enough if you are used to dealing with kindergartners. I like the roleplaying, and I've chilled out a lot, so I will keep coming back as long as my interest is piqued. I also like to prove my point to the mods that there was no reason to make this bizarre DEAT status against me. The mods are quite corrupt, as most humans thrust into the role of autocrats tend to be, the first time they deleted Eire Shamrock they left a great region founderless, and this was done to facilitate an invasion by their pirate buddies. Prodigal Fenian was assasinated for them to assist their pirate friends into taking Northern Ireland away from us. Of course both of my nations did fairly innocous things to get deleted, but if any other nation not under Mod persecution did the same things Eire and PF did they wouldn't be deleted.

So is there a conspiracy against PF, Eire, etc? Not really, it's just easier for the mods to have DEAT status to teach everyone else a lesson not to challenge them. Quite typical for a totalitarian regime. In many respects, Eire and PF are freedom fighters!

[Blackbird]

*chuckles*

I remember that now. Not that I support flaming but I suppose now I can fondly reminisce about those less moderated days too. Heh.

[The Bruce]

Thanks, everyone for clearing up the misdeeds angle on how they met their end.

Does anyone recall or have records as to how widespread their raiding (names of target regions) was, outside of just targeting British themed regions? I seem to remember them branching out in their attacks on other regions and collaborating with other invaders, but they weren't among the invaders that I was following closely at that time.

[Feux]

* Bumps because this is a generally cool thread and has a question regarding NS History.

Can someone tell me as much as they can about Pope Hope?

[Blackbird]

* Bumps because this is a generally cool thread and has a question regarding NS History.

Can someone tell me as much as they can about Pope Hope?

Uh, what do you want to know? Founder of Nasicournia. She became Director of the ADN when ... hmm... Vazquez left? Or rather, she was the Director and kind of couped or took over when the Presidency of the ADN, the House and the Senate dissolved.

She was very anti-democratic, which pissed off my RLA comrades. She was a good defender though. Good at mobilizing folks, a good political leader. Held on to power too long, but who didn't, I suppose. Listened too much to the GLA folks who were very anti-NPO and made the ADN hold out as the last major defender org still fighting the anti-NPO fight long after the RLA, TITO, and then FRA just didn't care.

You have anything more specific than that? Honestly, my memory is hazy these days. If you had a specific event in mind, I could look at logs.

[Ananke II]

Uh, what do you want to know? Founder of Nasicournia. She became Director of the ADN when ... hmm... Vazquez left? Or rather, she was the Director and kind of couped or took over when the Presidency of the ADN, the House and the Senate dissolved.

She was very anti-democratic, which pissed off my RLA comrades. She was a good defender though. Good at mobilizing folks, a good political leader. Held on to power too long, but who didn't, I suppose. Listened too much to the GLA folks who were very anti-NPO and made the ADN hold out as the last major defender org still fighting the anti-NPO fight long after the RLA, TITO, and then FRA just didn't care.

You have anything more specific than that? Honestly, my memory is hazy these days. If you had a specific event in mind, I could look at logs.

She became director when Mendanau stepped down from that post. The way I understood it the the post of president dealt mostly with the military side of ADN, while the director dealt with intel. Of course that might be due to the fact that both Mendanau and Pope Hope were more involved in intel gathering than Vazquez, possibly making the division of labour dependent on the personalities who held the post.

I don't think Pope Hope was anti-democratic really. I do think she was against people who she felt spent too much time playing politics inside ADN. The decision to declare Martial law was done for a couple of reasons; the fact that the way the first constitution was set up ended up making the House and Senate unable to do anything due to inactivity, to get rid of a forum, which had been compromised too many times, to streamline the bureaucracy (and get rid of some of it) and of course to stymie the efforts of certain elements inside ADN to use the org for their own ends. That last point I'm sure some people will see as un-democratic. In my opinion we'd gotten to a point where ASE and the people around them were causing so much strife internally that something had to be done. I really don't think Pope Hope wanted to lose Vazquez as president. However planning an attack on Ireland at the ADN forum while we were in the middle of negotiating with Der Kaiser and the Entente, really wasn't smart. I can't say how much Pope Hope actually knew about those plans, although I think there's a fair chance she probably did stay out of that forum, since it was one Vazquez used for Alcatraz people. I didn't know anything about it before it blew up in Vazquez' face though, which really pissed me off, since I was Secretary of State at the time. Considering the general feeling in and outside ADN I don't think it would've really been possible for Vazquez to stay on as president after that.

Re: GLA; A decent amount of our members (including me) were ADN before we became GLA. I never felt like GLA had that much of an impact of how how we acted in ADN. Sure, you always get influenced by the people who you hang out with, but most of the GLA people who weren't already in ADN never showed that much interest in it. They certainly weren't given any preferential treatment in ADN just because some of us already knew them from GLA. If they used their skills and time for ADN and showed commitment to the org, sure they were likely to advance, but then so were most any other skilled player in ADN.

[Unibot III]

Jeux, some interviews with Pope Hope are fairly informative:

http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/single/?p= ... &t=9734804
http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/single/?p= ... &t=9710817

[Blackbird]

Uh, what do you want to know? Founder of Nasicournia. She became Director of the ADN when ... hmm... Vazquez left? Or rather, she was the Director and kind of couped or took over when the Presidency of the ADN, the House and the Senate dissolved.

She was very anti-democratic, which pissed off my RLA comrades. She was a good defender though. Good at mobilizing folks, a good political leader. Held on to power too long, but who didn't, I suppose. Listened too much to the GLA folks who were very anti-NPO and made the ADN hold out as the last major defender org still fighting the anti-NPO fight long after the RLA, TITO, and then FRA just didn't care.

You have anything more specific than that? Honestly, my memory is hazy these days. If you had a specific event in mind, I could look at logs.

She became director when Mendanau stepped down from that post. The way I understood it the the post of president dealt mostly with the military side of ADN, while the director dealt with intel. Of course that might be due to the fact that both Mendanau and Pope Hope were more involved in intel gathering than Vazquez, possibly making the division of labour dependent on the personalities who held the post.

I don't think Pope Hope was anti-democratic really. I do think she was against people who she felt spent too much time playing politics inside ADN. The decision to declare Martial law was done for a couple of reasons; the fact that the way the first constitution was set up ended up making the House and Senate unable to do anything due to inactivity, to get rid of a forum, which had been compromised too many times, to streamline the bureaucracy (and get rid of some of it) and of course to stymie the efforts of certain elements inside ADN to use the org for their own ends. That last point I'm sure some people will see as un-democratic. In my opinion we'd gotten to a point where ASE and the people around them were causing so much strife internally that something had to be done. I really don't think Pope Hope wanted to lose Vazquez as president. However planning an attack on Ireland at the ADN forum while we were in the middle of negotiating with Der Kaiser and the Entente, really wasn't smart. I can't say how much Pope Hope actually knew about those plans, although I think there's a fair chance she probably did stay out of that forum, since it was one Vazquez used for Alcatraz people. I didn't know anything about it before it blew up in Vazquez' face though, which really pissed me off, since I was Secretary of State at the time. Considering the general feeling in and outside ADN I don't think it would've really been possible for Vazquez to stay on as president after that.

Re: GLA; A decent amount of our members (including me) were ADN before we became GLA. I never felt like GLA had that much of an impact of how how we acted in ADN. Sure, you always get influenced by the people who you hang out with, but most of the GLA people who weren't already in ADN never showed that much interest in it. They certainly weren't given any preferential treatment in ADN just because some of us already knew them from GLA. If they used their skills and time for ADN and showed commitment to the org, sure they were likely to advance, but then so were most any other skilled player in ADN.

I'll admit my memory may overstate the anti-democratic nature of the Poper.

But about the GLA: I always felt that the GLA had a very anti-NPO bent, and that while in the ADN, they kept the ADN really fighting the anti-NPO crusade long after other defender organizations wanted to drop it and focus on defending. The RLA for example reached out to the NPO and stopped the propaganda campaign against them, while the ADN never did.

You know, you're right about Vazquez. I'm confusing him stepping down as President after that incident with Pope taking over from Mendenau.

[Unibot III]

Out of curiosity, was this Crazygirl or the GLA in general being the primary Anti-NPO influence?

[Feux]

Thank you everyone. Took me a min to read everything but I think I have a general understand of the contributions that Pope Hope made to the ADN and NationStates as a whole in terms of the R/D game.