Neutral Ground - an Open Discussion Thread

[Kaboomlandia]

What do you guys think about the new news update?
I think it looks interesting and I foresee some people protesting the change.

It'll make a major impact in conventional triggering. Will be curious to see how the R/D game adjusts.

[Valrifell]

What do you guys think about the new news update?
I think it looks interesting and I foresee some people protesting the change.

It'll make a major impact in conventional triggering. Will be curious to see how the R/D game adjusts.

Preeettyyy sure the News Page only mentions Issues and the Census being removed from the almighty Update. R/D will not be affected (yet, at least).

Though, I don't mind semi-instant feedback, though it doesn't give me time to change answers on a particularly hard issue. On the bright side, shiny new graphs.

[Benevolent Thomas]

It'll make a major impact in conventional triggering. Will be curious to see how the R/D game adjusts.

Preeettyyy sure the News Page only mentions Issues and the Census being removed from the almighty Update. R/D will not be affected (yet, at least).

Though, I don't mind semi-instant feedback, though it doesn't give me time to change answers on a particularly hard issue. On the bright side, shiny new graphs.

Preeettyyy sure that taking issue processing out of the update is going to have an impact on gameplay.

Regions will update faster and closer together.
Gameplayers will have to find a new method of timing jumps and detecting the speed of update.

It would be pretty wild if admin followed this change with another shuffle in the order in which regions update. We'd be flying in the dark for at least a day

I don't even know what stance to take on the matter. I never saw a change like this coming so I guess I'm just curious to see how it plays out.

[Ayvari]

Preeettyyy sure that taking issue processing out of the update is going to have an impact on gameplay.

Regions will update faster and closer together.
Gameplayers will have to find a new method of timing jumps and detecting the speed of update.

It would be pretty wild if admin followed this change with another shuffle in the order in which regions update. We'd be flying in the dark for at least a day

I don't even know what stance to take on the matter. I never saw a change like this coming so I guess I'm just curious to see how it plays out.

My stance on this one is 110% aggravation with a side of rage! I liked the sound of it - up until they went and changed something critical for how I've been playing R/D since joining. Which isn't even that long in the grand scheme of most people here. Still.

Also, if they update shuffle on top of saying "screw how you play the game!", I don't even know how to react.

[Marselesk]

It'll make a major impact in conventional triggering. Will be curious to see how the R/D game adjusts.

Preeettyyy sure the News Page only mentions Issues and the Census being removed from the almighty Update. R/D will not be affected (yet, at least).

Though, I don't mind semi-instant feedback, though it doesn't give me time to change answers on a particularly hard issue. On the bright side, shiny new graphs.

I mean, it's not like issue legislations play a critical role in triggering

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other, but i don't really see any sense in it. It's like stealing the little money someone might have in order to buy a necklace for someone who's going to look at it, say "Oh neato" and then wear it maybe three times in their entire life. R/D will definitely not die due to this, we will always find a way to adapt, but it will still hurt both sides. This is all assuming the admin team doesn't work a way around this to make triggering still available to us.

[Land filled with People]

I mean, it's not like issue legislations play a critical role in triggering

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other, but i don't really see any sense in it. It's like stealing the little money someone might have in order to buy a necklace for someone who's going to look at it, say "Oh neato" and then wear it maybe three times in their entire life. R/D will definitely not die due to this, we will always find a way to adapt, but it will still hurt both sides. This is all assuming the admin team doesn't work a way around this to make triggering still available to us.

Legislation is replaceable.

No one is getting "fucked over", or even hurt, because you can continue to trigger in essentially the same fashion.

An RSS marker (or any other solution) is unnecessary because you can still trigger perfectly fine without it. It would simply add to the spammy crap the game has to suffer for taggers.

The only 'issue' here is, as BT pointed out, that update should get very short. How long are admin willing to pad it out for; and will variance be balanced accordingly to match?

[Bears Armed]

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other

Yes, you are, with your implication that R/Ders are the only players whose "base their game actively", that R/D is the only way to do that.
Iissue-answering is not only another perfectly acceptable way for players to "base their game actively", and one that (as you might recall) was already an official part of NS before R/D was thought of, it's one that generally doesn't aggravate anywhere near as many players as R/D does... and to many of us who don't play the R'/D' side of things that whole invasions 'game' seems like a way of "fucking over" -- as you so nicely phrased it -- those people who aren't interested in it and who want more stability in our regions.

So let the issue-answerers have a change that benefits them for a change, instead of trying to make everything be about R/D, hokay?

[Marselesk]

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other

Yes, you are, with your implication that R/Ders are the only players whose "base their game actively", that R/D is the only way to do that.
Iissue-answering is not only another perfectly acceptable way for players to "base their game actively", and one that (as you might recall) was already an official part of NS before R/D was thought of, it's one that generally doesn't aggravate anywhere near as many players as R/D does... and to many of us who don't play the R'/D' side of things that whole invasions 'game' seems like a way of "fucking over" -- as you so nicely phrased it -- those people who aren't interested in it and who want more stability in our regions.

So let the issue-answerers have a change that benefits them for a change, instead of trying to make everything be about R/D, hokay?

I wish i had a match big enough for that strawman.

I mean, it's not like issue legislations play a critical role in triggering

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other, but i don't really see any sense in it. It's like stealing the little money someone might have in order to buy a necklace for someone who's going to look at it, say "Oh neato" and then wear it maybe three times in their entire life. R/D will definitely not die due to this, we will always find a way to adapt, but it will still hurt both sides. This is all assuming the admin team doesn't work a way around this to make triggering still available to us.

Legislation is replaceable.

No one is getting "fucked over", or even hurt, because you can continue to trigger in essentially the same fashion.

An RSS marker (or any other solution) is unnecessary because you can still trigger perfectly fine without it. It would simply add to the spammy crap the game has to suffer for taggers.

The only 'issue' here is, as BT pointed out, that update should get very short. How long are admin willing to pad it out for; and will variance be balanced accordingly to match?

Huh, weird. I was under the impression that triggering revolved around issues. Could've fooled me

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Though, I don't mind semi-instant feedback, though it doesn't give me time to change answers on a particularly hard issue. On the bright side, shiny new graphs.

IRL, The Prez can take as long as they want to answer, but once they answer and announce it they can't change their mind

I mean, it's not like issue legislations play a critical role in triggering

It seems like a way to fuck over an entire large group of people who base their game actively in order to make it slightly more convenient for people of which most don't participate in anything else and the majority of which most likely don't really care about the update. I'm not saying one type of player is more valuable than the other, but i don't really see any sense in it. It's like stealing the little money someone might have in order to buy a necklace for someone who's going to look at it, say "Oh neato" and then wear it maybe three times in their entire life. R/D will definitely not die due to this, we will always find a way to adapt, but it will still hurt both sides. This is all assuming the admin team doesn't work a way around this to make triggering still available to us.

I would disagree with this sentiment - while the R/D side effects are..unfortunate, I would not go nearly so far as to say they were intended by design. These changes will bring about major improvements to the silent majority of people who play this game just to answer issues. I obviously can't talk specifics about what I see in the Beta, but it's going to make a lot of people happy, and frankly the whole thing makes more sense than effects only happening twice a day, in 2016.

Legislation is replaceable.

No one is getting "fucked over", or even hurt, because you can continue to trigger in essentially the same fashion.

An RSS marker (or any other solution) is unnecessary because you can still trigger perfectly fine without it. It would simply add to the spammy crap the game has to suffer for taggers.

The only 'issue' here is, as BT pointed out, that update should get very short. How long are admin willing to pad it out for; and will variance be balanced accordingly to match?

Huh, weird. I was under the impression that triggering revolved around issues. Could've fooled me

There's a thread that's basically this in technical. Land can't be bothered to move past vague statements of "lol I get it and you don't," even in Technical, so...*shrug*

[Marselesk]

Oh no, i wasn't insinuating this was done intentionally. If Max wanted to get rid of raiders and defenders he'd have done it already, without beating around the bush. And yes, it will bring nice changes to the community of players that concentrate on that scheme of gameplay, it just could have been done without damaging a different player-base. But i suppose it's too early to tell, they might adjust some things so the changes do not affect R/D too drastically, as i said.

[Belschaft]

Eh, historically issues were a key element of getting update times and remain the best "low tech" way of doing so. This will make it slightly harder for new people to get involved in mil-GP without the help of established groups, but isn't the end of the world.

[Cormactopia II]

Eh, historically issues were a key element of getting update times and remain the best "low tech" way of doing so. This will make it slightly harder for new people to get involved in mil-GP without the help of established groups, but isn't the end of the world.

To be fair, it's never clear when a game change will be "the end of the world" (as we know it). Regional influence -- albeit a much bigger change that had even more of an impact on R/D -- was promised not to be the end of the world either, but it began the decline of defending and the rise of independence, which actually did have a pretty profound effect on military gameplay that we're still seeing today. Was it "the end of the world"? No, but it was the end of that world that existed before regional influence, the world of the ADN and defenders in general as a super power.

We probably won't know for sure how this is going to affect military gameplay until it's implemented, but I think, as was the case with defenders post-regional influence, we'll be seeing several veteran R/Ders retiring from military gameplay after this is implemented, which could lead to a prolonged lull in military gameplay or, at the very least, give rise to new ideas and new organizations.

[Belschaft]

Eh, historically issues were a key element of getting update times and remain the best "low tech" way of doing so. This will make it slightly harder for new people to get involved in mil-GP without the help of established groups, but isn't the end of the world.

To be fair, it's never clear when a game change will be "the end of the world" (as we know it). Regional influence -- albeit a much bigger change that had even more of an impact on R/D -- was promised not to be the end of the world either, but it began the decline of defending and the rise of independence, which actually did have a pretty profound effect on military gameplay that we're still seeing today. Was it "the end of the world"? No, but it was the end of that world that existed before regional influence, the world of the ADN and defenders in general as a super power.

We probably won't know for sure how this is going to affect military gameplay until it's implemented, but I think, as was the case with defenders post-regional influence, we'll be seeing several veteran R/Ders retiring from military gameplay after this is implemented, which could lead to a prolonged lull in military gameplay or, at the very least, give rise to new ideas and new organizations.

I think it will probably prevent the development of new organisations actually, as it makes acquiring update times harder and thus increases the barriers to entry into mil-GP for new players. At least until the promised "estimated update time" feature is added.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

To be fair, it's never clear when a game change will be "the end of the world" (as we know it). Regional influence -- albeit a much bigger change that had even more of an impact on R/D -- was promised not to be the end of the world either, but it began the decline of defending and the rise of independence, which actually did have a pretty profound effect on military gameplay that we're still seeing today. Was it "the end of the world"? No, but it was the end of that world that existed before regional influence, the world of the ADN and defenders in general as a super power.

We probably won't know for sure how this is going to affect military gameplay until it's implemented, but I think, as was the case with defenders post-regional influence, we'll be seeing several veteran R/Ders retiring from military gameplay after this is implemented, which could lead to a prolonged lull in military gameplay or, at the very least, give rise to new ideas and new organizations.

I think it will probably prevent the development of new organisations actually, as it makes acquiring update times harder and thus increases the barriers to entry into mil-GP for new players. At least until the promised "estimated update time" feature is added.

Which is a large part of my point in Asking for a regional note to serve the same purpose issues did - to give a timestamp on the activity page of most (or greater) regions in the world for when update passes. I could always use more feedback there

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Hey, look, Anarchy got invaded again. And it's an anniversary hit, so they'll probably be there a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

[Land filled with People]

Huh, weird. I was under the impression that triggering revolved around issues. Could've fooled me

There's a thread that's basically this in technical. Land can't be bothered to move past vague statements of "lol I get it and you don't," even in Technical, so...*shrug*

@Val: Triggering does, but it doesn't need to. Try not to miss the first thing I said.

@Souls: Defenders went to technical for years, with actual problems with N/R/D balance. Did we receive any constructive feedback beyond "trigger better", "train better", "recruit better", "get better", "sell your souls and lives to Max"? Largely, no.

So don't be surprised that you running to technical after this tiny change - which hasn't even been implemented yet - that won't even have any significant impact, begging for things to be made easier than they currently are irks me, shall we say.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Three brave Black Hawks ventured into the battlefield. 23 burning regions in their wake, the Hawks are proud of their success in the face of adjusting to a new navigation system. A few wrong turns were made, but in the end the Hawks triumphed over defender forces and minor technical issues.

You mean "force" right?

1 defender vs 3 different groups of raiders. Half a dozen defenses. Not too shabby.

[ChingisOtchigin]

2 groups*
And yeah, great job! I was scared when u jumped into one of mine <_< Good thing Green killed you.

Only time you'll go up against 3 groups is when I get my full set of 6, like I did on Monday, or when despite Fest luring away people with cake I still get enough peepz to do two teams. However, Fest always seems to pick the day when none of the regular minorneers are here...

So let the issue-answerers have a change that benefits them for a change, instead of trying to make everything be about R/D, hokay?

1) R/D is love. R/D is life.
2) The new update doesn't really benefit issue answering people, it merely makes it so they get the legislation happening some 10 hours earlier that usual. That's not in any way balancing out to how badly R/D could potentially be affected. I personally see a comparison could be made to how it would feel if our RO powers came into affect after 14 hours of hitting the region, so we could only tag the region then. Do not really see that as much of an issue.

[Festavo2]

Three brave Black Hawks ventured into the battlefield. 23 burning regions in their wake, the Hawks are proud of their success in the face of adjusting to a new navigation system. A few wrong turns were made, but in the end the Hawks triumphed over defender forces and minor technical issues.

You mean "force" right?

1 defender vs 3 different groups of raiders. Half a dozen defenses. Not too shabby.

You blocked us on 3 regions. If you are looking for a pat on the back for your half dozen defenses against TBH and DEN, it isn't coming from me.

Also, this should be in the TBH thread.

@Chingis
My cake brings all the boys to the raid

[Benevolent Thomas]

I wouldn't dare derail TBH's thread to talk about other organizations and their raid attempts. That would be unsporting.

I think it was three I was going up against today:

DEN
TBH
Kingdom of Alexandria

Of course I could be wrong though. Its hard to tell who is repping who from update to update these days.

[Pollaetorian]

So, you and probably tell that I got a bit bored of poll raiding.

On the other hand, who wants to try out Like-raiding! Let's give some inane post a viral an exponential increase in popularity, as 20, 30, 40 nations all go in to "like" the post!

[Ambroscus Koth]

You're a gem, Codge.

[Morndul]

So, you can probably tell that I got a bit bored of poll raiding.

On the other hand, who wants to try out Like-raiding! Let's give some inane post a viral an exponential increase in popularity, as 20, 30, 40 nations all go in to "like" the post!

Go for it.

[Ayvari]

I wonder what everyone's favorite post in this thread would be if they read it from start to finish. I did that because history and it was totally worth it. Although I'm sad I missed 2012 now.

My favorite: viewtopic.php?p=8397069#p8397069 <--- Everything from this post to the last post on that page. Which is way more than one post, but you know.

TBH is still Apostates Anonymous to this day. D: Some things never change.

[Siberian Districts]

Everyone seemed so much more friendly back then!