OSIRIS - Establishment

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:37 pm

OSIRIS

EXTENDED INFO ON ELECTIONS:
Please read the first post in the thread before following this link, though.

CANDIDATES:
Mahaj WA Seat
- - announcement
- - removal
Revert
- - announcement
Nicholas von Sinterklaas
- - announcement
Imperial 2
- - announcement
Gagnos15
- - announcement
Zaolat
- - announcement
Canalk
- - announcement
Aqualita - DISQUALIFIED
- - announcement
Vaira - DISQUALIFIED
- - announcement
Aurora World
- - announcement
Bunnesia
- - announcement

Greetings to all, but specifically to all involved in the establishment of the new sinker region Osiris.

This is The Archaic Entity of Topdop, more commonly known as A mean old man. The sinker region Osiris is currently under the supervision of TITO, the defender organization of 10000 Islands, due to what they believe was an early attempt by an invader to seize the region. I have been personally singled out by Grub to host the delegate election for this region and he has given me some very specific instructions:

1) [The election in Osiris should] start within five days. The voting should only take 1-2 days to complete.
2) The term of the new Delegate will only be three months during which time a Constitution should be set up.
2) Before the election, [TITO] will unban all of the invaders [it] booted, as long as they only endorse the current Delegate until the election is over.

...however, this was the extent of his particularity, so I am assuming that it is up to me to design the other aspects of this election. So this is my schedule, and these are my rules:

OCTOBER 20 - OCTOBER 23:
Any WA member nation within Osiris may declare their candidacy in the election in this thread. If, for any reason, the nation leaves the region or loses its WA status before October 24th, its candidacy will be invalidated.
OCTOBER 24:
Ballot preparation, New thread will be made for voting.
OCTOBER 24 - OCTOBER 27:
Once thread is posted, election begins. Any WA member nation within Osiris may cast its vote in a thread made specifically for the Osiris delegate elections, by Topdop, in the NS Gameplay forum. If, for any reason, any nations which have voted in this election leave the region before or on October 28th or lose their WA status before or on this date, their votes will be discarded.
OCTOBER 28:
Election ends. The winning candidate will maintain position in Osiris for the three months which follow the exact day they first assumed their position after TITO leaves the region while a Constitution is developed in a third thread hosted by the new delegate in a forum of his/her choice. The Constitution will determine how and where the new region is going to be governed. This delegate will refrain from establishing any embassies or alliances and will do everything in their power to prevent themselves from being removed from their position by foreign or domestic usurpers in order to protect the neutrality and validity of this new region's formal establishment.
The new delegate is charged with proposing a draft version of the new Constitution, to which edits and/or additions will be proposed by the WA member nations of Osiris and approved or failed by a simple majority vote.

Begin discussion and/or announcement of your campaign.

Please do not use this thread as a place to bash TITO or a place to discuss anything unrelated to the future and delegate elections of this region. Progress begins now, and I'm going to see to it that progress is not impeded.

by **Guy II** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:41 pm

Absolutely not.

There are people who'd like to see the elections being run differently. I don't understand why TITO thinks they can decide on the terms of the future elections, instead of listening to the other people in the regions.

Yes, we've got ideas. Yes, we're willing to compromise.

This is just shoving done our throats what we don't necessarily want.

by **Scribere est agere** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:44 pm

We do not acknowledge your, or Grubs legitimacy to organize these elections.

We have ideas of our own, we don't need to be imposed yours, thank you very much.

See yourself out the door, and take TITO with you if you please.

by **Osiris** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:45 pm

I think it needs to be specified that once a vote has been cast, that nation MAY NOT leave the WA for any reason.

And unless TITO leaves the region when the 'elected' becomes delegate, I am also against your proposals.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:47 pm

Osiris wrote:I think it needs to be specified that once a vote has been cast, that nation MAY NOT leave the WA for any reason.

Good point.

...and to all the stubborn naysayers, I'll be very blunt:
You're stuck with TITO, and you're stuck with me.

by **New Rogernomics** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:51 pm

Guy II wrote:Absolutely not.

There are people who'd like to see the elections being run differently. I don't understand why TITO thinks they can decide on the terms of the future elections, instead of listening to the other people in the regions.

Yes, we've got ideas. Yes, we're willing to compromise.

This is just shoving done our throats what we don't necessarily want.

Well I doubt the election will be totally fair I must admit (due to invader/defender scrambling to be in the region for the vote), and the result most likely would be a defender leaning delegate because of it, or possibly not. But I think everyone can agree that they want the TITO presence there gone (even if you are in TITO), and the only way to assure TITO sufficiently to leave is an election.

by **Diol** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:52 pm

By claiming that osiris is 'stuck with tito' you are invading the region. Call it liberation. Call it helping the region get on its feet.
Sprinkle it in sugar and put a cherry on top but it's still an invasion, and for a defender organisation, I have not seen a higher form of hipocracy in my time on nation states.

If you thought their was an invasion, by all means defend against it but after that, get out. This is a new region, which could easily become one of the largest in the game. It needs to be set up independently. It needs to be created by natives.
NS doesn't need another tito puppet around, we have far too many of them as it is.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:56 pm

This region is brand new. I don't expect the vast majority of its members to be "natives," and the paranoid "GET OUT THIS IS MINE" rhetoric by all non-TITO parties is not doing the region any good.

Also, FYI, I am not a member of TITO. My main nation is in The Pacific, and I am a governmental officer of The North Pacific. I personally was worried when I heard that both new sinker regions were occupied by defender organizations, but figured it wouldn't have happened any other way (unless they were occupied by raider organizations, which would have you all yelling even louder about unfair treatment and the inability of a region to be established by natives).

At this point I don't think it is possible for Osiris to be built up and controlled by "natives." It is a new sinker region and everyone is seeking a slice of its cake. TITO is doing its best to facilitate a democratic process in this region, however, with good reason, does not expect that to happen in a completely chaotic (EDIT: and "natural") fashion.

These are the circumstances. Accept them. Progress will not be made otherwise.
If you'd actually bother to read my terms, you'll see that I'm not quite so unreasonable.

by **Crazygirl** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:00 pm

I'm getting flashbacks to a few months ago, to a certain feeder and someone grabbing the delegacy there, trying to organise elections. Just a little bit.

Good luck with the elections, Osiris, I'm looking forward to following this to see how it plays out.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:04 pm

...except that feeder already had an established community and way of doing things, whereas this region is an entirely blank slate.

by **Diol** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:05 pm

If this region is so new and inexperienced that it needs tito to come in and help it, then frankly it isn't worth helping.

A region needs to stand up for itself, when it needs defenders to help it it has already lost.

As I said. With such a new region, we need to consider when a nation becomes a native. If someone managed to raid the place and hold it for any length of time it would be a native.

What a region does not need is tito stepping in to hold its hand every little step of the road to success. Sinker or no sinker it is a region, it will either be a success or a failure.

If Tito stepps in to save it, how will osiris defend itself? They need to build up an army, get communications sorted, get connected with other regions, we don't need nations resurecting into tito puppets, it's a bad influence.

We need independance. We need a free battle ground and a level playing field.

by **Scribere est agere** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:08 pm

Topdop wrote:...except that feeder already had an established community and way of doing things, whereas this region is an entirely blank slate.

...except the people on the region have already made Two forums, and an IRC channel, are perfectly capable of organizing themselves, far beyond what can be considered an entirely blank slate, and there is no TITO presence with the people anywhere to be seen.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:27 pm

Diol wrote:If this region is so new and inexperienced that it needs tito to come in and help it, then frankly it isn't worth helping.

So you're saying that, if this region couldn't have pulled itself off its feet without initial foreign support, it wouldn't be worth sticking with?

A region needs to stand up for itself, when it needs defenders to help it it has already lost.

A region that was just created as a GCR has no real members to "stand up" for it.

As I said. With such a new region, we need to consider when a nation becomes a native. If someone managed to raid the place and hold it for any length of time it would be a native.

So if an invader organization took over Osiris and held onto the brand new region for a period of time and used it solely for their own, foreign benefit, you'd consider their presence within the GCR to be legitimate? To continue considering this from your supposed point of view, if TITO maintained a state of permanent dominance over Osiris, would you consider TITO to be the region's "natives?"

Think.

What a region does not need is tito stepping in to hold its hand every little step of the road to success. Sinker or no sinker it is a region, it will either be a success or a failure.

If Tito stepps in to save it, how will osiris defend itself? They need to build up an army, get communications sorted, get connected with other regions, we don't need nations resurecting into tito puppets, it's a bad influence.

Your flawed logic is almost undecipherable. This region cannot "build up an army, get communications sorted, get connected with other regions" if it has no officials or government or members to do such things. If the region were simply left to the wolves (pun not intended), I couldn't see this happening as efficiently. TITO is also not interested in maintaining a presence in Osiris; it wishes to hand the region off to its new inhabitants in the most legitimate fashion possible, then leave.

We need independance. We need a free battle ground and a level playing field.

That last point is where we disagree. There is no doubt that Osiris needs independence, however simply letting it develop in an utterly chaotic environment is simply not an option. I've come to terms with that and am grateful that I've been commissioned to oversee this election, since I plan to do it in the most neutral fashion possible.

Scribere est agere wrote:...except the people on the region have already made Two forums, and an IRC channel, are perfectly capable of organizing themselves, far beyond what can be considered an entirely blank slate, and there is no TITO presence with the people anywhere to be seen.

Two forums? Sounds divided and unorganized to me. Something I don't think people are realizing here is that, once the election is over and a winner chosen by all WA nations within Osiris, it is up to this new delegate to organize a Constitutional convention also controlled by the WA nations of Osiris. This convention could easily determine the region's new offsite forum and could easily end any perceived dominance over the region by a "foreign" influence - and, at this point, TITO will have been gone.

A lot of people are acting as if this region has been around for ages and has an established community of "natives," where in reality it was founded, literally, yesterday. Stop ranting and raving, sit down, and consider your circumstances realistically; that's what I did. This is what we have to work with and this is what we must work with.

by **New Rogernomics** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:27 pm

I think a good point to start would be nations declaring their candidacy, especially considering there is ( viewtopic.php?f=12&t=146406 ) this thread, for discussion of the whole thing, and ( viewtopic.php?f=24&t=146454 )this thread for discussion over why TITO's actions over the years, should deserve repeal of its commendation.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:36 pm

New Rogernomics wrote:I think a good point to start would be nations declaring their candidacy, especially considering there is ( viewtopic.php?f=12&t=146406 ) this thread, for discussion of the whole thing, and ( viewtopic.php?f=24&t=146454 )this thread for discussion over why TITO's actions over the years, should deserve repeal of its commendation.

I don't see how the declaration of one's candidacy and the existence of those two threads exactly piece together logically, however I agree with your first point.

I knew there'd be a lot of TITO bashing and a lot of attacks on myself (from a lot of people who have no clue who I am or what I stand for and don't understand that I'm not from TITO), however continued raging over their presence, particularly within this thread, is not productive.

TITO has given a lot of Osiris WA members the benefit of the doubt, here. There are a number of WA members within Osiris who are raiders, a number who are defenders, and a number who are neutral. TITO has not banned them and plans to unban the nations it has banned before this election begins. TITO is only forcing all of you to elect a delegate, and I am acting as the election commissioner and doing my best to keep the election from being unfair or biased (and also attempting to prevent it from being abused). If people would rather things played out in utter chaos, they'd best express their rage elsewhere, because this thread and its purpose are not going to change.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:49 pm

I'd also like to point out that only WA member nations of Osiris who have posted in this thread so far are New Rogernomics and myself.

by **HenryVonHoffman** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:50 pm

We're at each others throats at the moment. The line between Defender and Invader, while wanted to be kept out, is playing an integral role in the structuring of Osiris. We all moved into Osiris and Balder the moment they were created; some of us came later, but are still there nonetheless. I don't think anyone can count themselves as native to this new region. If they can, they need to understand that every party involved in Osiris has the same right to that claim.

Both Defenders and Invaders have good reason to distrust the motives of the other, but with so many people pushing for a democracy setting, it comes down to a point of, will it be a defender or invader or will it be a truly neutral party that grabs the reigns of this new democracy.

From what I can ascertain of the situation, TITO moved in roughly the same time as raiders started moving in and they fought for early control of the region. Once TITO had control of the region, it did the same thing that raiders would have done: it banjected those that it thought would harm the flourishing of this new region. Since then, TITO has gone out of its way to try to accommodate everyones paranoia by setting NS Forums as the place for elections to occur; where both sides have equal ground; and with setting a neutral party in the seat of the Delegacy to ensure that things go well. Having seen a Mean Old Man around NS many times over and his involvement in many events in NS, I believe that it was a good choice on TITO's part, for everyone, to set him in that position.

At this point, I see people getting hasty in their words and statements, resorting to old hatred instead of new understanding of each other. Invaders and Defenders have a lot in common with each other; more than either side cares to admit; and if we were to set aside the differences we have in favor of those similarities, I believe Osiris stands a better chance of becoming the neutral democracy we all want it to be. If, however, we fight against each other and get in each others way, it will only lead NS down the same path it's always gone and will make Osiris less of a region than it deserves to be.

For the sake of Osiris, put this petty fighting aside and work together for once. We have common interest in being there; we have a common goal. We have a rock-solid chance of pushing Osiris forward as a progressive-thinking region where all may participate regardless of Invader/Defender orientation and it would be a huge pity if we lost that chance because people weren't able to set aside past differences.

People talk of having a time-frame to work in and that they would rather set the time-frame themselves, however, with a new GCR, the time-frame is already set by people being able to revive their nations and find themselves within Osiris. This is not a PCR; nor is it an established GCR. Great care must be taken in setting the region up; great care must be taken to not let personal biases interfere with that and even greater care must be taken in how we proceed with the first elections, because; like it or not; they will set the pace for all future events in Osiris.

by **The Great Watchers** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:53 pm

Topdop (AMOM), I applaud you for being so level-headed about this new sinker region. When all the dust has settled, people will see that you holding the elections, rather than someone else, was the best option.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:56 pm

I'd like to thank the last two posters here for their kind words.

Hopefully the dust can settle soon. Grub is in a tricky position and I have willingly placed myself in a similar one; he wants this done ASAP, however that means that the anger over TITO's involvement by those who do not trust or appreciate it is still fresh. People will have to make an active effort to calm down and observe this objectively.

by **Kenzai** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:58 pm

Keeping an eye on this. An actual election as opposed to raider vs defender bitchfest would be nice (thanks for at least attempting to organise this, AMOM)

Considering actually becoming a delegate candidate but I somehow doubt anyone would vote for a non-gameplayer.

by **The Great Watchers** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:00 pm

Topdop wrote:I'd like to thank the last two posters here for their kind words.

Hopefully the dust can settle soon. Grub is in a tricky position and I have willingly placed myself in a similar one; he wants this done ASAP, however that means that the anger over TITO's involvement by those who do not trust or appreciate it is still fresh. People will have to make an active effort to calm down and observe this objectively.

I have to say, some of this resentment may have been caused by TITO's... less than graceful wording of the 'invasion'.

by **Topdop** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:03 pm

Kenzai wrote:Considering actually becoming a delegate candidate but I somehow doubt anyone would vote for a non-gameplayer.

I would. In fact, I bet a lot of people would ... unless their outrage and rhetoric is a disguise for their frustration with not being able to cut themselves a slice of this region before TITO made that difficult for them. We'll have to see how this plays out.

The Great Watchers wrote:I have to say, some of this resentment may have been caused by TITO's... less than graceful wording of the 'invasion'.
I will admit that this invasion was done a little sloppy. But hey, this is an unique situation that we are in.

TITO is a military raiding organization, community building isnt high on our list of priorities.

One of the problems was our lack of communication-letting the people know what our intentions are and the reasons for invading them. Of course it was to take permanent control of this region-but we could spin the truth a little. The delay in releasing an announcement has caused some confusion and chaos. Making it more difficult for us to control their opinions.

What the natives want is insane, we cannot allow them to run their own government. They must be turned into a clone of us at the very least.

Keeping the endo cap at 50% makes a lot of sense. First, it keeps us in power and prevents the natives from retaking the region. Secondly, it shows everyone who is really in charge here. Thirdly, the 50% cap comes from the 10000 islands constitution. This gives them some ideas on how to write their own constitution-copy ours! It is obvious that our democratic ideals of invading nations (even if they did not invite us to raid them) is superior to anything they could come up with!

To make up for our sloppy invasion I suggest that we let some nations back in and force them to bend knee to us by endorsing our delegate. When the natives see them bending knee, they will know that all hope is lost and that they should just shut up and kiss our feet!

Long live TITO!

Ha ha ha! I highly doubt that was posted by any member of TITO. It was probably posted by an individual attempting to mimic or mock TITO to send a message about what the individual believed TITO to be doing in Osiris. TITO has more tact than that. Usually they don't say much of anything in public statements.

by **Mahaj WA Seat** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:07 pm

I shall participate in these elections, although with great hesitancy. This is ridiculous that TITO has these elections.

Very well. Vote for me and we shall promptly have real elections.

by **The Great Watchers** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Topdop wrote:
Kenzai wrote:Considering actually becoming a delegate candidate but I somehow doubt anyone would vote for a non-gameplayer.

I would. In fact, I bet a lot of people would ... unless their outrage and rhetoric is a disguise for their frustration with not being able to cut themselves a slice of this region before TITO made that difficult for them. We'll have to see how this plays out.

The Great Watchers wrote:I have to say, some of this resentment may have been caused by TITO's... less than graceful wording of the 'invasion'.
I will admit that this invasion was done a little sloppy. But hey, this is an unique situation that we are in.

TITO is a military raiding organization, community building isnt high on our list of priorities.

One of the problems was our lack of communication-letting the people know what our intentions are and the reasons for invading them. Of course it was to take permanent control of this region-but we could spin the truth a little. The delay in releasing an announcement has caused some confusion and chaos. Making it more difficult for us to control their opinions.

What the natives want is insane, we cannot allow them to run their own government. They must be turned into a clone of us at the very least.

Keeping the endo cap at 50% makes a lot of sense. First, it keeps us in power and prevents the natives from retaking the region. Secondly, it shows everyone who is really in charge here. Thirdly, the 50% cap comes from the 10000 islands constitution. This gives them some ideas on how to write their own constitution-copy ours! It is obvious that our democratic ideals of invading nations (even if they did not invite us to raid them) is superior to anything they could come up with!

To make up for our sloppy invasion I suggest that we let some nations back in and force them to bend knee to us by endorsing our delegate. When the natives see them bending knee, they will know that all hope is lost and that they should just shut up and kiss our feet!

Long live TITO!

Ha ha ha! I highly doubt that was posted by any member of TITO. It was probably posted by an individual attempting to mimic or mock TITO to send a message about what the individual believed TITO to be doing in Osiris. TITO has more tact than that. Usually they don't say much of anything in public statements.

My, my! People must feel terribly strong about this to go so far to make a puppet just to prove a point.... How strange... To think that such a small thing as aid for a new region could rile up users so much....

by **The Jedi** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:11 pm

As somebody who was participating on the Osiris RMB earlier, I can verify that the "message from TITO" was posted by one of the number of nations treading the thin line between parody and impersonation. That people were fooled is evidence that their aims were served.

EDIT: I do believe it was this nation.

OSIRIS - Establishment

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