The United Defenders League

[The Blaatschapen]

I think you're missing a major reason why people switch. They don't like the leadership and organization of the group they are leaving.

That's not a reason for switching. That's a reason for starting your own group

[Jakker]

I think you're missing a major reason why people switch. They don't like the leadership and organization of the group they are leaving.

That's not a reason for switching. That's a reason for starting your own group

A fair point

But from what I've been told that has made switching a lot easier.

[Jakker]

I think you're missing a major reason why people switch. They don't like the leadership and organization of the group they are leaving.

You criticize Unibot's leadership a lot. And then you just leave it like that, without backing it up or anything.

Which sucks.

Who says I was just talking about Uni?

[Unibot II]

I think you're missing a major reason why people switch. They don't like the leadership and organization of the group they are leaving.

I never heard any complaints from Mall or Spartz; the proper way to get change in the UDL is to talk to me, not Jakker.

Please, spare me. I can speak for myself thank you very much. I befriended Rawr and Tramiar, decided I wanted to give raiding a try, and then switched. Never did they actively try and cause me to switch, nor have they ceased being my friends now that I am on their side. I genuinely enjoy talking to them and raiding.

If you had known they were trying to get you to switch it would not work and if they ceased being your friend, it would not work.

Well your first supposition is just wrong. Raiding is not, objectively speaking "more fun" for everyone. I know people who have tried both and prefer defending. I simply disagree. As for the friendly aspect that isn't true. I'm a raider. I raid regions. Ebil.

I'm not saying it is "more fun", I'm saying all Bri or Rawr had to was subtly hint it would be more fun for you.

Again that's not what happened, you guys didn't even know I was switching until it happened, so clearly there was no friction there.

The friction came afterwards; there was no way for any UDLer to convince you to return, the way switching-psychology works is you're pushed away by such pleas by genuine friends.

Burnt out? Ask anyone on the raiding side, I constantly brag about how good of a spotter I am.

Great spotters get burnt out. Raiding is a break compared to defending.

[Mahaj]

You criticize Unibot's leadership a lot. And then you just leave it like that, without backing it up or anything.

Which sucks.

Who says I was just talking about Uni?

You've done it before.

But fine, now you've made your statement even vaguer.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Please, spare me. I can speak for myself thank you very much. I befriended Rawr and Tramiar, decided I wanted to give raiding a try, and then switched. Never did they actively try and cause me to switch, nor have they ceased being my friends now that I am on their side. I genuinely enjoy talking to them and raiding.

If you had known they were trying to get you to switch it would not work and if they ceased being your friend, it would not work.

So they continue to message me, chat with me, discuss random stuff... as a conspiracy to deprive you of an updater? You don't even believe that.

Well your first supposition is just wrong. Raiding is not, objectively speaking "more fun" for everyone. I know people who have tried both and prefer defending. I simply disagree. As for the friendly aspect that isn't true. I'm a raider. I raid regions. Ebil.

I'm not saying it is "more fun", I'm saying all Bri or Rawr had to was subtly hint it would be more fun for you.

Well it turns out that it is. If anything I had tried to get them to switch, while they just laughed at me about it.

Again that's not what happened, you guys didn't even know I was switching until it happened, so clearly there was no friction there.

The friction came afterwards; there was no way for any UDLer to convince you to return, the way switching-psychology works is you're pushed away by such pleas by genuine friends.

Erm the reason you guys had no shot in hell of getting me back was for a couple reasons. 1) I was certain of my decision. 2) It's not like you'd trust me back. 3) The things that were said to me after my switch, and no, no one on the NS forums is going to get any more detail than that. It happened off site, it's staying off site.

Burnt out? Ask anyone on the raiding side, I constantly brag about how good of a spotter I am.

Great spotters get burnt out. Raiding is a break compared to defending.

Still feeling pretty fresh over here. Never got burnt out.

[Jakker]

Who says I was just talking about Uni?

You've done it before.

But fine, now you've made your statement even vaguer.

Sometimes ignorance is the best thing.

Regarding specifics, I will not speak for anyone else, but myself.

Personally, it's sad to see which defenders are the most vocal and in charge.

I guess you could try to change my mind Mahaj, but it looks like you're too busy in Osiris building your NS resume`.

[Tramiar]

From the looks of things you've been making a concerted effort to befriend the UDl and the FRA's strongest major updaters (Rawr, Mall, Spartz). I don't see you giving the lovey-dovey join-the-family treatment to a lot of our non-updaters. Just because they chose to switch doesn't mean they were not manipulated into joining.

The tactics of making people switch from defending to raiding is pretty simple: 1) You convince them that raiding is the more "fun" and "friendly" side by subtly hinting, 2) You have to push away the subject's defender friends by noting that if defender-friends try to convince them to stay defending they don't care about what's best for them ... so you can use the traction between defenders against itself so the harder friends try to convince one another to stay together in the group... the more they're pushed away, 3) you target major updaters because they're well trained and do the bulk of the work (or in Spartz's case, he was a triggerman) but they are also burnt-out a little... you have to subtly hint that its their break from spotting and work.

I love when you make the things i should do easier for me. I don't target anyone. I dont try to get anyone to switch. However, if the want to try it, I support their decision. Ever think maybe its just updaters that have interest in trying it? Also, I cant say i know many non-updaters. And how i treat someonr has nothing to do with if they're an updater or not, or the chances they'll switch. Youre the last person i would think would switch. I realize its been a while since you'vebeen nice to me, but when you were, I acted the same way toyou as I did the others. So bad argument on your part.

[Mallorea and Riva]

You've done it before.

But fine, now you've made your statement even vaguer.

Sometimes ignorance is the best thing.

Regarding specifics, I will not speak for anyone else, but myself.

Personally, it's sad to see which defenders are the most vocal and in charge.

I guess you could try to change my mind Mahaj, but it looks like you're too busy in Osiris building your NS resume`.

I miss Mahaj defending >.> somebody needs to be online at the minors.
Edit for clarity: Somebody who will talk to me/that I can bully

[The Blaatschapen]

Youre the last person i would think would switch.

Personally I think Ballotonia is the last person who would switch.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Youre the last person i would think would switch.

Personally I think Ballotonia is the last person who would switch.

Close, but still Uni I think.

[Mahaj]

Sometimes ignorance is the best thing.

Regarding specifics, I will not speak for anyone else, but myself.

Personally, it's sad to see which defenders are the most vocal and in charge.

I guess you could try to change my mind Mahaj, but it looks like you're too busy in Osiris building your NS resume`.

I miss Mahaj defending >.> somebody needs to be online at the minors.
Edit for clarity: Somebody who will talk to me/that I can bully

I'm online...

just not with a mobile WA.

[The Blaatschapen]

Personally I think Ballotonia is the last person who would switch.

Close, but still Uni I think.

I have Uni lower than Ballo, mostly because Uni is very temperamental in my opinion.

[Unibot II]

So they continue to message me, chat with me, discuss random stuff... as a conspiracy to deprive you of an updater? You don't even believe that.

You're a friend.. why wouldn't they message you? It's not so simple as full deception, I'm sure they like you genuinely -- but you being an updater influenced their decision to befriend you. I recall the first night that you spotted with me on Jul 23 2011 Maj, Bri made a comment to IRC, asking who was that and asked enough questions to raise my suspicions, but I hadn't really thought that much of it at the time. She probably already had you scouted out.

Well it turns out that it is.

Switching-psychology once again, cognitively you're likely to view your choice has being the right one and view your past as "less fun".

Erm the reason you guys had no shot in hell of getting me back was for a couple reasons.

Major reason was the traction fallacy, especially in Spartz's case -- the more we'd try to convince you, the more you're pushed away.

Still feeling pretty fresh over here. Never got burnt out.

Sure you did.

[The Blaatschapen]

So they continue to message me, chat with me, discuss random stuff... as a conspiracy to deprive you of an updater? You don't even believe that.

You're a friend.. why wouldn't they message you? It's not so simple as full deception, I'm sure they like you genuinely -- but you being an updater influenced their decision to befriend you. I recall the first night that you spotted with me on Jul 23 2011 Maj, Bri made a comment to IRC, asking who was that and asked enough questions to raise my suspicions, but I hadn't really thought that much of it at the time. She probably already had you scouted out.

Now I feel left out since the invaders never talk to me (besides Rachel and Abbey)

[Jakker]

So they continue to message me, chat with me, discuss random stuff... as a conspiracy to deprive you of an updater? You don't even believe that.

You're a friend.. why wouldn't they message you? It's not so simple as full deception, I'm sure they like you genuinely -- but you being an updater influenced their decision to befriend you. I recall the first night that you spotted with me on Jul 23 2011 Maj, Bri made a comment to IRC, asking who was that and asked enough questions to raise my suspicions, but I hadn't really thought that much of it at the time. She probably already had you scouted out.

Geez Uni, stop making Tramiar seem like she or anyone else has a plan to screw you over. You're not the center of the universe. Me on the other hand make that one of my prime jobs

Switching-psychology once again, cognitively you're likely to view your choice has being the right one and view your past as "less fun".

It's called choice-supportive bias

[Unibot II]

Geez Uni, stop making Tramiar seem like she or anyone else has a plan to screw you over. You're not the center of the universe. Me on the other hand make that one of my prime jobs

Switching-psychology once again, cognitively you're likely to view your choice has being the right one and view your past as "less fun".

It's called choice-supportive bias

Goddammit Jim, I'm a defender not a psychologist.

[Mallorea and Riva]

So they continue to message me, chat with me, discuss random stuff... as a conspiracy to deprive you of an updater? You don't even believe that.

You're a friend.. why wouldn't they message you? It's not so simple as full deception, I'm sure they like you genuinely -- but you being an updater influenced their decision to befriend you. I recall the first night that you spotted with me on Jul 23 2011 Maj, Bri made a comment to IRC, asking who was that and asked enough questions to raise my suspicions, but I hadn't really thought that much of it at the time. She probably already had you scouted out.

And yet I'm the one who approached those two. Rawr was thorning one day and mocking me as I followed him Then I started mocking him back. Then it turned into a conversation. Then I chatted with him on IRC, met Bri, etc.

Well it turns out that it is.

Switching-psychology once again, cognitively you're likely to view your choice has being the right one and view your past as "less fun".

This is literally insane. This is a conspiracy theory that only you believe in.

Erm the reason you guys had no shot in hell of getting me back was for a couple reasons.

Major reason was the traction fallacy, especially in Spartz's case -- the more we'd try to convince you, the more you're pushed away.

Reread what I wrote. Ad hominems are not a good way to get someone back.

Still feeling pretty fresh over here. Never got burnt out.

Sure you did.

I really don't know what you're referring to. Keep in mind that I was the primary spotter for the UDL on the nights you needed breaks. You were the one burning out, I kept you in it.

[Unibot II]

I really don't know what you're referring to. Keep in mind that I was the primary spotter for the UDL on the nights you needed breaks. You were the one burning out, I kept you in it.

I didn't say I wasn't burning out, I said every great defender burns out -- it's the second paragraph of The Pledge of Scarlet.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I really don't know what you're referring to. Keep in mind that I was the primary spotter for the UDL on the nights you needed breaks. You were the one burning out, I kept you in it.

I didn't say I wasn't burning out, I said every great defender burns out -- it's the second paragraph of The Pledge of Scarlet.

I'm hoping that in ignoring my other points you're implicitly agreeing with them. Again, I didn't burn out. Ask anyone Uni. You're projecting your own mental state onto me. If I stayed up as late as you did gathering troops every night I might have burned out, but I slept well (and I follow a different sleep cycle than most).

[Unibot II]

And yet I'm the one who approached those two. Rawr was thorning one day and mocking me as I followed him Then I started mocking him back. Then it turned into a conversation. Then I chatted with him on IRC, met Bri, etc.

You know one time I approached Going Postal about joining his region, TGC to the FRA (without knowing who Going Postal was or how raider-ish his region was) -- just because I went to him doesn't mean he wasn't happy to capitalize on the opportunity.

[Mallorea and Riva]

And yet I'm the one who approached those two. Rawr was thorning one day and mocking me as I followed him Then I started mocking him back. Then it turned into a conversation. Then I chatted with him on IRC, met Bri, etc.

You know one time I approached Going Postal about joining his region, TGC to the FRA (without knowing who Going Postal was or how raider-ish his region was) -- just because I went to him doesn't mean he wasn't happy to capitalize on the opportunity.

Fixed the tags >.>
Yeah. Except never once did they try to switch me. And when I offered to switch they made sure it was what I wanted. You are taking this to a whole other level of conspiracy, and there is no way any rational onlooker is going to believe what you're saying.

[Casl]

I think your both wrong.

But since my opinion dun matter whatever.

[Unibot II]

there is no way any rational onlooker is going to believe what you're saying.

The question is: are you telling me that or are you telling yourself that? :/

[Spartzerium]

Major reason was the traction fallacy, especially in Spartz's case -- the more we'd try to convince you, the more you're pushed away.

Actually... your guilt trips were hard to resist, I have to admit. But I had already made the decision. Why would I stick with the side I enjoy less? Sure, I would still be a defender in name. But only because I was guilt tripped into staying. I wouldn't really want to be on the defender side, deep down inside. Also, even though you promised me that nobody would give me a hard time, or you'd "wrap them on the head," you turned out being the guy that gave me the hardest time. And that kinda stuff always pushes me away.

I totally agree with what Mall said here:

Erm the reason you guys had no shot in hell of getting me back was for a couple reasons. 1) I was certain of my decision. 2) It's not like you'd trust me back. 3) The things that were said to me after my switch, and no, no one on the NS forums is going to get any more detail than that. It happened off site, it's staying off site.