Europeian Embassy - In Solidarity

by **Angeloid Astraea** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:47 pm

The funniest part of all of this is that the way first TSP and now Europeia have messed with TNP is better revenge for On Alignment from a raider perspective than us raiders have actually managed to accomplish. And neither TSP nor Euro are raider!

by **Francois Isidore** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:50 pm

Falafelandia wrote:I put the statement through ChatGPT. Even it thought it was bullshit. It came up with this:

>be me
>scrolling through NS
>see this cringe statement from Europeia
>they're all like "oh no we're so sorry we messed up"
>lmao they got caught red-handed
>apparently they used some private post from The Rejected Realms (TRR) in their discussions with The North Pacific (TNP)
>TRR's citizens-only area was supposed to be private, but Europeia just couldn't resist snooping around
>now TRR is rightfully pissed about their privacy being violated
>Europeia's excuse? They were "alarmed" by the post and needed to make sure their agreements with TNP were still valid
>what a load of crap
>they could have handled this situation way better, but nope, they just had to go ahead and use someone else's private info
>now they're playing nice and offering some half-assed commitments
>they promise to inform TRR if they find any more "protected information" from them
>oh, how generous of you, Europeia
>they also say they'll help with the investigation into the post
>but let's be real, they're probably just trying to cover their own asses
>Europeia, you messed up big time
>TRR deserves better than this
>they should cut ties with these snooping idiots
>let's hope TRR and their friends in the Aegis Accords see through Europeia's BS
>stay strong, TRR, don't let these invaders walk all over you

This, if real, might just be one of the funniest things I've read on these forums in years.

by **Lord Dominator** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:54 pm

So there’s a funny little thing about Europeia’s other treaty obligations - presuming for the moment an unknown third party originally provided the posts and that other treaty obligations prevent that party from being disclosed. Otherwise, Europeia is keeping something secret that by treaty they don’t need to; or they’re justifying it under internal laws. Either is rather worse to this, particularly as the former is elevating unwritten agreements over a written treaty.

Now, I’ve looked through Europeia’s treaty index and all but one bilateral treaty + one of the multi-laterals (the other multi-laterals do not include intelligence provisions and they use this basic wording:

2. Intelligence Undertakings

(a) Neither TNP nor Europeia will set spies on the other. For this purpose, a "spy" is a person acting under false pretenses in one region, without that region's knowledge, and at the direction of the other region's legitimate government.

(b) TNP and Europeia each shall provide information to the other if such information is pertinent to the other region's security or well-being, or otherwise upon the other's reasonable request, unless the party in possession of such information reasonably believes that providing that information might violate applicable laws or contravene the terms of service for NationStates or the region's forum provider, or when revealing that information would unduly compromise that party's source(s) of information. Both signatories shall endeavor to reveal as much as possible in such situations, but not more than they can under laws, terms of service or the need to protect sources.

(c.) TNP and Europeia will each make it a violation of their internal laws to spy on the other, if a similar or related law to the same effect does not already exist. To the extent permitted by each region's laws, this Section 2(c.) shall be deemed self-executing.

I have used TNP’s treaty here mostly because I’m a citizen there - otherwise all but one of the treaties are the same, with the only wording differences in the intelligence sections being irrelevant to my point here. Notice how the only exceptions to the duty to inform are from rl law, forum hosting terms, internal laws, or the need to protect their source.

Predictably, the only bilateral treaty that uses a different wording is the treaty with LKE, which goes as such:

1. A Signatory may not pass on any information that concerns the military or security of the other Signatory to any party, unless the Signatory that the information concerns gives its consent.

2. Paragraph 1 applies to, but is not limited to, information about military operations and intelligence operations.

3. A Signatory may not pass on any information provided by the other Signatory unless that information is already in the public domain or if the Signatory providing the information gives its consent.

4. Each Signatory will endeavour to provide information to the other Signatory when requested to do so by that other Signatory, when it is within their power to provide it, and where it is consistent with their own policies to do so.

Notice that it limits the passing on of information to only when the other region consents. That is, if our (only somewhat) hypothetical third party involves LKE in some capacity, Europeia can only tell TRR that if LKE consents.

So as I see it, there a few different reasons why Europeia has not told TRR their source:
1: They don’t know who their source is - which would mean they decided to confront TNP based on unverified allegations
2: Some Europeian law - keeping in mind that Aegis does not have an internal law exception, this would probably indicate the source is a Europeian citizen
3: LKE is involved somehow - Europeia is sacrificing one treaty obligation to another and LKE is abetting Europeia’s trashing of their own FA
4: Some twisting of another treaty secret agreement - I trust it is obvious why this would be a poor reason
5: They don’t want to for no particular reason

by **Tinhampton** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:59 pm

Francois Isidore wrote:This, if real, might just be one of the funniest things I've read on these forums in years.

It is. Falafel might be the fondest ChatGPT user of anyone in Gameplay.

by **Ever-Wandering Souls** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:00 pm

LD, my two cents it that it could also be a "generous" interpretation of the standard clause.

by **Angeloid Astraea** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:01 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:2: Some Europeian law - keeping in mind that Aegis does not have an internal law exception, this would probably indicate the source is a Europeian citizen
3: LKE is involved somehow - Europeia is sacrificing one treaty obligation to another and LKE is abetting Europeia’s trashing of their own FA

If the source is NES, then it can be both 2 and 3. =P

by **Lord Dominator** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:02 pm

Actually hey, I forgot about what TRR’s statement said:

Catalyse wrote:Europeia claims it cannot cooperate further to provide information about the leak, as doing so would contravene its treaty obligations to another region.

This of course rules out 1, 2, and 5 in my post above - presuming reasonably I think that TRR is not lying. Option 3 is that LKE is involved, option 4 is that Europeia is twisting one of their other treaty obligations in some weird manner.

In other words, I think there’s a very good case that LKE is involved here somehow.

by **Lord Dominator** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:03 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:LD, my two cents it that it could also be a "generous" interpretation of the standard clause.

You may be right, in which case I invite Europeia’s other allies to publicly say that they aren’t involved in this and have no complaints about Europeia telling TRR that one of their citizens was involved or whatever happened here specifically.

by **East Chimore** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:39 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:(snips)

Predictably, the only bilateral treaty that uses a different wording is the treaty with LKE...

(more snips)

So as I see it, there a few different reasons why Europeia has not told TRR their source:
1: They don’t know who their source is - which would mean they decided to confront TNP based on unverified allegations
2: Some Europeian law - keeping in mind that Aegis does not have an internal law exception, this would probably indicate the source is a Europeian citizen
3: LKE is involved somehow - Europeia is sacrificing one treaty obligation to another and LKE is abetting Europeia’s trashing of their own FA
4: Some twisting of another treaty secret agreement - I trust it is obvious why this would be a poor reason
5: They don’t want to for no particular reason

I appreciate you doing the deep dive through the active treaties that I had thought about doing but not done myself. It's definitely something to consider, but I also gotta take Souls' two cents since I could see "the need to protect their source" to include protecting longer-standing treaties and relations. Any way it's sliced, it's definitely not the position I'd want to be in.

by **Lord Dominator** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 11:06 pm

East Chimore wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:(snips)

Predictably, the only bilateral treaty that uses a different wording is the treaty with LKE...

(more snips)

So as I see it, there a few different reasons why Europeia has not told TRR their source:
1: They don’t know who their source is - which would mean they decided to confront TNP based on unverified allegations
2: Some Europeian law - keeping in mind that Aegis does not have an internal law exception, this would probably indicate the source is a Europeian citizen
3: LKE is involved somehow - Europeia is sacrificing one treaty obligation to another and LKE is abetting Europeia’s trashing of their own FA
4: Some twisting of another treaty secret agreement - I trust it is obvious why this would be a poor reason
5: They don’t want to for no particular reason

I appreciate you doing the deep dive through the active treaties that I had thought about doing but not done myself. It's definitely something to consider, but I also gotta take Souls' two cents since I could see "the need to protect their source" to include protecting longer-standing treaties and relations.

Most certainly, which I suggested their other treaty allies tell us they aren’t involved

Any way it's sliced, it's definitely not the position I'd want to be in.

Cleary you aren’t cut out for the high stakes of Europeian diplomacy

by **Frattastan IV** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:20 am

Lord Dominator wrote:snip

Yes, that type of clause is the first I considered. Any information "pertinent" to the other region's "well-being" is a very loose wording, of course. Note that it only prevents the other region from sharing information, or any details that could compromise the source (e.g., the name of the leaker). It seems far-fetched to claim that it prevents Europeia from disclosing what it already knows, such as the name of the region itself, unless you believe that simply stating the region, by itself, will very likely lead to the source being compromised.

Also, during talks Euro claimed that the third-party's government was not involved, and that originally they weren't even aware of the leak even if they since have been informed. It's clear that intelligence sharing clauses cannot be implied to cover interactions with a private citizen of the other region.

A minor possibility is that the treaty obligation preventing disclosure is a different one, like the prohibition of espionage. e.g., if the post was mentioned in a restricted area of the third party's region, maybe without the government noticing, Europeia could not distribute any details without the permission of that region. However this is not consistent with the claim that the third party's government wasn't aware of the incident - they would have needed to allow distribution of the information to TNP at the beginning of all this. This applies to the scenario involving the LKE too.

So, the legal reasoning may very well be bogus. It's likely that there is some willing misinterpretation. Maybe Europeia says that the government of the third party was uninvolved and originally unaware because to them "the government" is limited to Cabinet members rather than to, say, an intelligence or security official? Since all this is kept under wraps, no one knows whether the claim about treaty obligations is truthful and legally sound. There probably are implications in terms of accountability and the rule of law.

by **Europeian Embassy** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:56 am

Shopping with the South Pacific Special Forces
07/07/2023

Shopping! Maybe you love it, maybe you hate it. But if you ask us, it’s definitely more fun with friends! With this in mind, at minor update on Friday some ERN and SPSF friends got together to go shopping. Because that’s the other thing: shopping is definitely more fun if you get to bill it to your government credit card…

We met up at Crystal Falls and took a stroll through update, looking for whatever caught our eye: a detag here, a hamburger bun there. (We even got one Makasta-appointed RO position! Apparently they charge extra for that, it’s kind of a scam.) Oh wait, did I say hamburger bun? Not to worry! It’s a very necessary government expense; updating really works up an appetite! Especially when it’s really just a picture of someone else’s hamburger buns… and when Icarus is apparently really good at making them…

Unfortunately, our bill only came out to $72.36. That’s unfortunate because, you know, government card, not our problem.

Wait, whose card did we use again? That’s awkward. Oh well, I’m sure we’ll hear about it if we started an FA incident…

by **Jar Wattinree** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:29 am

Creative report.

by **JayDee II** » Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:49 pm

“The single drop of rain never feels responsible for the flood” - Douglas Adams

Hello Everyone,

Throughout this campaign, I have pushed the ideals of collaboration and working hard together. I have made it a focus that we are all in this together, that we all have a part to play in making Europeia the amazing region that it is. You have all put your faith in me to make that reality possible, to see a Europeia that is strengthened and solidified by the hard work of all those who love this place and all those who will one day come to love it as well.

The quote I place above is one that I was reminded of during the campaign process. While it might have a negative connotation, it can also have a very positive one. We all have a part to play, we all contribute to the strength of Europeia. Whether you are a recruiter, welcomer, ambassador, writer, we are all the drops of rain which make Europeia the strong and resilient region that we know today! Already I am aware of the machinations which churn around us, but my faith is not shaken. I know we are surrounded by a strong citizenry and dedicated individuals who hold our values sacrosanct, whatever challenges we face, we will persevere.

We have our allies and friends by our side, those who have stood by us for a month or for years, we are thankful to all of them for the work they have put in to see a prosperous relationship between our regions. I hope to further strengthen our ties and bring us closer together with friends old and new as we walk these strange new paths together!

We are not made strong simply by our individuals, but by the collective whole, by all of us who put their best foot forward everyday and dedicate just a small part of themselves to our region. There is no burden too small nor task too big that we cannot share and overcome together. I cannot wait to get to work with my Vice President, Cabinet, and all of our citizens at every level to help bring Europeia ever forward. With your help, we will unleash Europeia and tap into the true potential that all of us are capable of.

To do this, we must all look within each other to understand that we are capable of more than what we give ourselves. I see much room for improvement, but I see more room for growth. My time in radio has made it clear that there are people who want to contribute and are ready to put their best foot forward to succeed. We want to inspire others to take the mantle of leadership, to step up to the challenge and say that they are ready!

My nominations for cabinet have already stepped up, already expressing their eagerness for the challenge that awaits us. I am incredibly excited for the opportunity to work alongside such an incredible group of people that will help us lead Europeia to a stronger future.

Leadership is an honor that I hold in great regard. It is a burden, but also an incredibly rewarding experience that simply does not compare. I am incredibly honored to finally have the opportunity, after over seven years, to lead the region which has been a home to me unlike any other. You all gave me compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness, now is my opportunity to repay the debt I owe and give back at least a fraction of what you all have given me.

Vice President - Pichtonia

Cabinet:
Chief of Staff - Decacon
Director of the Government Accountability Office - UPC
Attorney General - Foril

Minister of Gameside - Gemeinschaftsland
Minister of Outreach - The Islamic Country of Honour EIA
Minister of Communications - Phoenix Omnes
Minister of Radio - EliOhNo
Minister of World Assembly Affairs - Lime82
Minister of Culture - Radicalania
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Sanjurika
Grand Admiral - Vorhollah

From the bottom of my heart, thank you all!
JayDee - President of Europeia

by **Angeloid Astraea** » Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:06 pm

Congratulations JayDee! =D

by **Ever-Wandering Souls** » Sun Aug 20, 2023 7:14 pm

Did you ask ChatGPT to write a generic corporate new CEO speech?

by **Halsoni** » Mon Aug 21, 2023 2:05 pm

Congratulations JayDee, Pichto and the rest of Euro’s (hopefully) new cabinet!

by **Nouvelle Acadie** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:21 am

Congratulations JayDee, wishing you all the best in your new gig.

by **HumanSanity** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:37 am

Congratulations to the President, Vice President, and their Cabinet!

by **Chipoli** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:07 pm

Congratulations to JayDee, Pichtonia, and the new Cabinet!

by **The Orwell Society** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:37 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Did you ask ChatGPT to write a generic corporate new CEO speech?

Lmao at this

by **JayDee II** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:30 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Did you ask ChatGPT to write a generic corporate new CEO speech?

Don't be ridiculous, Europeia makes its own AI

by **Jar Wattinree** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:39 pm

JayDee II wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Did you ask ChatGPT to write a generic corporate new CEO speech?

Don't be ridiculous, Europeia makes its own AI

EuropeAI?

by **Pichtonia** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:18 am

Chipoli wrote:Congratulations to JayDee, Pichtonia, and the new Cabinet!

HumanSanity wrote:Congratulations to the President, Vice President, and their Cabinet!

Halsoni wrote:Congratulations JayDee, Pichto and the rest of Euro’s (hopefully) new cabinet!

Thank you very much!

Jar Wattinree wrote:
JayDee II wrote:Don't be ridiculous, Europeia makes its own AI

EuropeAI?

ChatEIA

by **Minskiev** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:33 pm

Congrats Big J Big D and Big P

oh and rest of cabinet but that's harder to nickname. C-Money?

Europeian Embassy - In Solidarity

A Single drop of rain - Opening Address

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