NATION

PASSWORD

The Broadside: First Issue

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.
User avatar
Wales
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 21, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

The Broadside: First Issue

Postby Wales » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:16 pm

Image
Image


Image
Written on 25 July 2022


Image


IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, I warned the citizenry of Osiris that pursuing the designation of Quebecshire as persona non grata was an unwise decision - one which would weaken our standing in Gameplay and lead us down the path to becoming a laughingstock among the GCRs. Though my words swayed some, Koth, who authored the motion, and Pharaoh Skies, determined to press on, and the motion was passed. In the months since, the world has witnessed the fulfilment of the predictions I made, the first step towards which led to my leaving the region to join The League.

Quebecshire was proscribed in Osiris on account of the many jokes he has made over recent months about the destruction of the Osiris Fraternal Order. While never displaying any serious intention to burn the region or anything of the sort, his comments were deemed outrageous enough to warrant an official condemnation. The perspective shared by Koth and those who supported the designation is that these jokes form a pattern, and regardless of any real threat posed to Osiris, Quebecshire clearly intended to humiliate and degrade a region which he thought a fun target for good-natured ribbing. As a stalwart standardbearer of the new Defender Moralism, it was easy to paint a picture of Quebecshire as a true enemy of Osiris, a threat to her interests, and an opponent of her very sovereignty.

None of this was true at the time; Quebecshire and others in the many Discord servers used by the Gameplay community have frequently engaged in jeers and jokes about a coup of every region you could possibly imagine. Second to Osiris as a target of these jokes was Balder - prescient, really. But the latter-day regime in this vaunted sinker decided that it would not take these jokes lying down. Indeed, the Osiris Fraternal Order would not sit idly in the face of this relentless mockery, and so decided to make a brave stand for all that is good and right in this life.

I made my thoughts known at the time: to respond with such a heavy hand to one determined jester would not project strength, but instead weakness. As a respected sinker with numerous allies, I thought it would not only be unbecoming but completely absurd to take these jokes so personally. The very act of proscription in itself degraded Osiris’s standing as a community, and shouted loudly to the world that the OFO has by far the thinnest skin of any major region. I warned that responding in this way would not silence any critic of the regime, whether sincere or completely facetious. No, in fact, it was clear to me that issuing a PNG against Quebecshire would only embolden him, and others who now saw an open invitation to rag on Osiris and provoke a reaction. In the end, my plea fell on deaf ears, and so I decided it was time for a change.

I had been considering an alignment switch to raiding, in order to better suit my status as an Osiran and a Sub-Vizier of Culture within the government. I had been in talks with Koth about even joining Malice, but it became crystal clear to me that my unserious temperament was probably better fit for a different region than the Osiris I was loyal to. And looking back, I am certain that I made the right decision.

Thus, shortly after the proscription was passed, I resigned my citizenship and moved to The League, after becoming fast friends with the man himself, and you know the rest. Quebecshire published a half-sincere, half-satirical manifesto proclaiming the need to destroy the OFO, and The League was driven to declare war after a string of incidents concerning raids on territories of our treaty allies. It was funny enough to see Osiris rewarded for its projection with further trolling, but little did we know how far they would go to vindicate Quebecshire’s criticisms, and how avoidable the regime’s numerous mistakes would be - and the venom with which they have defended every misstep. Quebecshire published a document which could be seen as pure bluster and braggadocio, but, as if by fate, Osiris turned his teasing criticisms into a self-fulfilling prophecy, thus vindicating him in the process.


Image


In the months that followed my switch from Osiris to The League, the rift between the two halves of Gameplay grew, first in murmurs, then to tremors, and now to open hostility. Unlike the divides of days past, this was not strictly a Raider-Defender split. It was a clash of both ideologies and personalities. The enmity between different members of organizations crossed with remarkable ambition from the resurgent Brotherhood of Malice. Raider Unity, however you would like to define it, swept to the forefront of Gameplay, and the regions of the world have found themselves caught in a struggle to define their standing in this new era.

That is likely hyperbole. The reality of the situation is that not much has changed in terms of defining Gameplay alignment, except for the development that raiding’s most prominent faction is now attempting to redefine who fits into what category. I do not claim to be the most well-informed person when it comes to the interpersonal drama of GP - I try to stay out of it, for the most part. But a glance at the forum posts of Malice and their surrogates in Osiris and abroad paints an interesting picture. And in it, we arrive at the topic of the article itself.

The Brotherhood of Malice is concocting a smokescreen of disingenuous interpretations and twisted semantics in order to create a false narrative surrounding their malignant actions against GCRs. In doing so, they aim to downplay their misdeeds, or in some cases, cast them as morally neutral actions at worst. The propaganda spouted by prolific posters such as Wayneactia, Sygian (welcome back!), North Polish Union and others is an attempt to make you disregard the evidence of your eyes, and present themselves as the true victims of unjustified ostracism by much of the interregional landscape, when, in fact, they did it to themselves.

For the purpose of this article, I must make it expressly clear that Osiris and Malice, in the context of alignment and attitude, should be viewed as the same political unit, or at least two sides of the same coin. The raider attitude of disregard towards regional sovereignty is shared by Osiris; they share prominent figures in the raider faction, and they move in lockstep with each other as allies. Koth, or Valtarre, is both a leader of Malice and the root administrator of Osiris’s forum. It is furthermore my understanding that Venico holds citizenship in Osiris. The two should be considered separate entities only insofar as one is a region and the other is its military arm, or vice versa, where Osiris serves as the political arm of Malice’s ambitions. The Osiris Fraternal Order and the Brotherhood of Malice exist to support each other, and one would doubtlessly be all the poorer without the other. Perhaps some doubts could be raised towards this conclusion in months past; recent events, however, have made it clear that the Osiran regime will burn every bridge it can with its fellow GCRs before saying one admonishing word about Malice.

Why is this a problem? It is not any sort of problem if your sole interest as a NationStates player is to participate in raiding or defending, to contribute to activity levels, to build friendship and solidarity with your comrades, and to give no regard to the vagaries of regional politics. But if you are a person who values your region, your regional identity, and the sovereignty of your region that allows its native community to thrive, then the existence of a powerful GCR that is at best indifferent to your sovereignty, and at worst actively contemptuous of it, is surely a threat to your interests as a member of that region.

As is widely known at this juncture, a plan was concocted by the Brotherhood of Malice to infiltrate and overthrow the government of Balder: either to establish a colonial government, as in the case of the 2017 coup of Lazarus by affiliates of Lone Wolves United (this is disputed by them), or to burn it to the ground before leaving, as one could argue Milograd did in the hot days of his 2013 “revolution” in the South Pacific. There is nothing unexpected or essentially wrong with this plan from a raider perspective - a raider has no obligation to respect the sovereignty of any region, and a sinker would doubtlessly make for a prestigious trophy. It has certainly been a long while since the last successful takeover of a GCR by an external organization (I believe the last instance would be the establishment of the Osiris Fraternal Order by Malice itself). Disavowing regional sovereignty with a devil-may-care attitude towards who gets burnt as a result of your actions is, much as we may disdain it, the raider way. However, the problem presents itself when the ambitions and attitudes of a naturally malicious raider organization are adopted and pursued by a sinker such as Osiris.

The exposure of Operation Ragnarok led to catastrophic fallout for the OFO’s foreign relations. Inside just two weeks, Osiris has lost every alliance and treaty it has with the GCRs, save for a non-aggression pact with the Rejected Realms. Her sister sinker, Balder, was the target of an operation to destroy her community, and when Balder’s government sought solidarity, it was met with silence. There has been a stream of bitter statements from officials and citizens within Osiris towards every region which has cut ties, which in their own right prove exactly why Osiris cannot be trusted. To illuminate this point, I will display and comment on a selection of those statements here.

Exhibit A. “Hopefully something along the lines of: Nice. 8)


Altino, Hasal-Pharaoh, in response to Syberis saying “What is Osiris’ response to the actions of their ally?” Without any clarification that this is a joke, and evidenced by Altino’s further comments on the matter, this seems an apparent endorsement of Operation Ragnarok.

Exhibit B. “See ya! Wouldn’t wanna be ya!”


Sygian, Deputy Vizier of Foreign Affairs, on the Lazarus RMB after ties were cut. This comment received “likes” from Moshir (head of the Sekhmet Legion) Wascoitan, Deputy Moshir and Sub-Vizier of Gameside Affairs Big Boyz, and Priest (Judge) and Deputy Scribe (Speaker) Cretanja, as well as, naturally, Altino.

Exhibit C. “Can’t wait to see the coup of this region!”


Woolgalia, ostensibly a soldier in the Sekhmet Legion, on Balder’s RMB. Notably preceded by Altino saying, “Hey hope you get couped real good. ♡”.

Exhibit D (abridged). “Horrible of Osiris to even begin to think they could be a serious GP region while they were spending their time lollygagging around and not agreeing with TNP on things. If they aren't nodding yes at TNP and aren't doing what TWP tells them (or else!) what are they even doing with their time?

[. . .] Genuinely so excited, I was positive that Osiris would do absolutely nothing about this whole BoM issue. That's not an option anymore! It is so disappointing to watch people yawn their way through GP, I can't wait to see Hazel get down to business.”


Altino, in the North Pacific’s Gameplay thread, after ties were cut. This statement insults TNP’s sovereignty by implying their subordination to the West Pacific, and goes on to imply further action should be taken against regions which have opted to end their relationships with Osiris.

The attitude of government officials, particularly Sygian, who is supposed to represent the official stance of the Osiran Government in his capacity as Sub-Vizier of Foreign Affairs, leaves little doubt as to the stance of the community and the government of Osiris.

What is even more telling, however, is the silence from the very top. Neither Pharaoh Malphe nor Vizier of Foreign Affairs Ark have made much comment about their stance on Operation Ragnarok. While it has been made known that Malphe requested a halt to these insulting comments (an order which was not followed), they have made no disavowal of their sentiment whatsoever. This is the extent of Malphe’s public comments on Ragnarok, titled “On Recent Events”:

“We never had any knowledge of and Osiris has no interest in participating in any subversion of Balder, or any other peer region. Our responsibility is to our own community and to our own allies, and Osiris shares neither legal or historical ties to Balder such that we could not in good conscience justify under coercion betraying the goodwill of a contemporary and dedicated ally on its account.”

Malphe establishes that Osiris did not know of the operation and would not have participated in it had they known. It would be at least a start, if not for the sentences which followed – words which disingenuously place the blame on the directional Pacifics for “pressuring” Osiris to conform to their interests. Malphe furthermore refuses to condemn the operation on the basis that Osiris has no “legal or historical ties to Balder”. In other words, we don’t care. While Malphe’s claim of non-involvement is dubious for various reasons, it is the height of lunacy to insinuate that the reason for these terminations and embassy closures has to do only with the feeders’ desire to make Osiris kneel. Let us compare two competing theories as to why Osiris has become a pariah among the GCRs over the course of July.

Theory A is thus: In line with the justifications stated in their various statements, the Feeders, as well as Lazarus and Balder, are concerned that Osiris has done nothing to assure them that the OFO respects the sovereignty of her fellow GCRs. They are concerned chiefly by the complete lack of any negative word against the plainly-stated intentions of the Brotherhood of Malice to overthrow and destroy the government of Balder, whose sovereignty and legitimacy has been heretofore recognized by all regions of import. Despite efforts to seek clarity on this matter, Osiris has made no public statement disavowing Operation Ragnarok beyond a simple insistence that they were not involved. This is compounded by the fact that Malice is the OFO’s preeminent ally in Gameplay, and, seeing treaty after treaty terminated as a consequence of this silence, the only further comment from Osiran government officials has been to lash out at their erstwhile allies; insulting them, questioning their sovereignty, and actively speculating further efforts to undermine them.

In the eyes of any given GCR, every subsequent reaction from Osiris towards any questioning of the regime’s respect for regional sovereignty has given them all the more reason to cut ties. And, in a continuing cycle of vindication, Osiris continues to disrespect and demean every region that feels forced to make this decision. Under these premises, all of these closures could have been prevented by a simple statement by Pharaoh Malphe, or anyone within the OFO for that matter, expressing a basic respect for the principle of sovereignty on which these alliances were made. It would surely give pause to any of these regions who once held an alliance with Osiris; you would have to wonder if they ever truly saw you as equal partners worthy of defending. If Osiris had five allies and chose Malice over one, it might be understandable. But to enthusiastically disavow every ally they have, particularly TWP, the bedrock of 2016-2022 Osiran foreign affairs? This newly-reborn raider organization must be incredibly valuable as an ally to make it worth sacrificing every other relationship you have with your closest, most longstanding partners. If Osiris will gleefully burn every bridge they are capable of burning before making even the most feeble comment supporting your sovereignty, then insults you when you inquire on the matter, why should you believe that Osiris respects you at all?

Theory B posits that every other GCR with the exception of the Pacific (who have no official ties to begin with) and the Rejected Realms are in on a coordinated plot to subvert and undermine Osiris. This plot is borne from a base hatred of Osiris’s ties with Malice, its raider ideology, and its very existence as a community. The Feeders, as well as Lazarus, Balder, and prominent UCRs like Europeia and The League, are all part of a Defender-Independent-Imperialist bloc who have never respected Osiris, and deserve no respect in return. These regions have the knives out for Osiris because they dared to stand with a treaty ally (notwithstanding their other five treaties with their fellow GCRs) whose only crime was to try to destroy a fellow sinker with whom these regions also had treaties. Under these confusing and illogical premises, every region that has cut ties with Osiris has managed to bridge every ideological divide between them in order to gang up on the OFO. Also notwithstanding the fact that Osiris held treaties with all of these regions, and got along well with them before the Ragnarok fiasco, which is an interesting fact to consider if you assume that none of these regions had ever respected Osiris to begin with. Not to mention completely bypassing the legitimate concern any region would have over an attempt to undermine a GCR’s sovereignty, and instead complaining that their allies are unwilling to stand with them, without addressing the reason whatsoever for why these ties have been frayed.

The only real opinion that has been expressed by Osiris, besides the jubilant threats against their former allies, has been a meek insistence that Operation Ragnarok never really got off the ground, and so little threat existed to begin with. While that may be so, it is ultimately irrelevant, as the problem here is not with the outcome, but with the intent. By downplaying the gravity of a plot like Ragnarok, Osiris says the quiet part out loud: we have no problem with our ally plotting against you. It doesn’t matter that Malice tried to destroy you, because they didn’t succeed. And if you have a problem with that, then you deserve it. This theory places independent regions such as Europeia, Balder, and Lazarus into what Malice’s surrogates have labelled the “Defendersphere”, which is an odd accusation to make. There have been further accusations that Balder is an illegitimate puppet of the Land of Kings and Emperors, and practices imperialism - this charge, made by the Church of Satan, is firmly rooted in an outdated and misinformed view of Balder’s recent history as an Independent region. If it were true, however, Defenders and Imperialists would indeed make strange bedfellows - it is a view that can only be justified on a faulty logical framework wherein interregional relations are dictated solely by the pacts made between different R/D factions, instead of the much simpler and logical truth of Theory A: that, despite ideological diversity when it comes to alignment, the relations between large regions exist on the basis of mutual respect for each other’s sovereignty.

This is the true nature of the situation we find ourselves in now, and creates a simple binary: there are those who respect the sovereignty of GCR governments, led by their native denizens, and those who do not. Osiris finds itself firmly on the other side of that binary, against all other regions that uphold this principle. They were not placed in this quandary by circumstance or ill intent on the part of the other regions - they have firmly planted themselves here through their own actions, which have made clear whose sovereignty Osiris does and does not respect. In an ironic twist of events, the fortress mentality that so baselessly leads them to believe in Theory B has resulted in a pattern of behaviour that, more than anything else, is likely to solidify the unity of the GCRs and big UCRs against Osiris. In senselessly branding every region that doesn’t support the OFO’s stance of tacitly endorsing the destruction of Balder as being fundamentally opposed to Osiris itself, they have made enemies of the regions they once called friends, and it is a situation entirely of their own making.


Image


One of the charges laid by supporters of the Osiris Fraternal Order is that of hypocrisy. After all, is it not blatantly hypocritical to take light-hearted jabs at these regions as threats against them, while you yourself have made the same jokes of Osiris in the past? This was the complaint levied by Devi in the Osiris Gameplay thread. However, a cursory examination into these accusations exposes the weakness of its fundaments.

Quebecshire, who has been known to indulge in a little trolling, had a long history of making jokes questioning Osiris’s sovereignty. With little prior relationship between Osiris and The League, it is fair enough that the regime would happily accept him and his region as an enemy. The League, for its part, has made no demands of its treaty allies to join or endorse its war against Osiris, and has been happy to make nice with regions that maintain relationships with the OFO. The League’s official position as a region is that Osiris is a puppet of the Brotherhood of Malice, and thus has no legitimacy as a government, and serves only as a threat to the sovereignty of regions the world round. Osiris is not obligated to respect our position on this matter, but their error has been in taking our own logic as a militant Defender region to apply to every other region, Defender or not, which has forsaken Osiris. In the matter of Operation Ragnarok, Quebecshire was simply the messenger for the plot to be revealed to the public - the regions which have reacted unfavourably to these revelations do not share our ethos nor our stance on the legitimacy of the OFO, or lack thereof. But, ironically, Osiris has chosen to give these regions all the reason they would ever need to see them as a hostile power, and a potential threat not to be trusted.

It would have been fair enough for Osiris to use Quebecshire’s previous statements as a defense for its officials making similar comments towards, say, The League. However, Osiris has taken this ball and ran with it far beyond any reasonable metric. Altino and company have not limited their jibes to just The League - as demonstrated, among the regions which once held ties with Osiris, only the East Pacific has escaped any kind of public scorn following their statement. And it is entirely possible that there will be future harsh words for them as well.

The kind of rhetoric employed by officials within the Osiran government has been unreservedly harsh towards those regions which expressed concerns, and unreservedly defensive towards the Brotherhood of Malice. One of the many arguments put forth goes along the lines of “How would you expect us to condemn our ally?” – to which I say, simply. To be blunt here, no one was expecting Osiris to dump Malice as an ally. Some regions had previous misgivings about Malice, some did not. To whom Osiris allies herself was never the problem before now. The problem is, and has been since the beginning of this affair, the inability of Osiris to levy a word of criticism against said ally, and what message is conveyed to her allies by that which Osiris leaves unsaid. Condemning Malice’s plot to destroy Balder does not necessitate a wholesale termination of that relationship. What would have made this entire situation go away is if Osiris had stated their profound disagreement with the aims of Operation Ragnarok and their respect for the principle of sovereignty. Bonus points if they threw in a line about how they would take it up with their ally and forge a path ahead that reconciles the OFO’s standing within the Gameplay community with their loyalty and friendship to the Brotherhood of Malice. Then, behind the scenes, in the backchannels, a quick assurance to Malice’s leadership that nothing would really change, and it was necessary to say what they said for the purpose of maintaining their relationships with other valued allies. But alas, this could not happen, as the leadership of Osiris and the Brotherhood of Malice are one and the same.

It’s in the very name. The Osiris Fraternal Order. A government founded upon a coup of the democratic Kemetic Republic by outside forces: Malice itself. Since the decline and eventual death of Malice before its revival, the OFO’s previous ties to the organization made little difference to anyone. But now that Koth and Venico have seen fit to resurrect the Brotherhood from the ashes, and immediately set out to pull off a sinker coup, Osiris has hitched its wagon without hesitance to their subversive machinations and Raider Unity ideology. Osiris speaks of respecting its allies, but in reality has shown itself to have only one ally: Malice. Osiris let its feeder and sinker partners fall by the wayside, every single one, rather than speak out. It is apparent to any observer that the Osiris Fraternal Order has never respected the sovereignty of its allies, and their action (and inaction) since the beginning of July has only confirmed this.

It hardly bears mentioning what the value of regional sovereignty is – more than a simple buzzword, it is the basis for all interactions between important and active regions with thriving communities. Sovereignty is the foundation for a friendship between regions, in the trust that neither will betray the other, and should the time come, will defend the other from external attack. Osiris gleefully chose to discard any value it pretended to have for this principle, and on top of spurning every region that reached out in good faith, elected to deploy a confusing smokescreen of half-baked conspiracy theories, pitting themselves against the world. The narrative the OFO is attempting to prop up is not only riddled with contradictions, but comes from a place of utter spite towards the regions who once called Osiris a friend. The diplomatic warpath on which the regime has embarked was never intended to sincerely plead the case for interregional friendship in spite of obvious differences - it is a smokescreen, pure and simple, designed solely for the purpose of letting Osiris duck their responsibility as a GCR and avoid the consequences of their own actions.

If only they had the courage to admit it.
Last edited by Wales on Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
CYMRU AM BYTH

Women want me. Sheep fear me. Puppet of Ikania.

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2025
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:13 am

Concerning the bit mentioning me: my position is based in the undeniable fact that Balder is ruled by the two most prominent imperialists in NationStates' history, and has been since its king seized power, as well as the fact that Balder willingly joined (and fought for) the United Imperialist Armed Forces. Its most prolific leaders rule (in the case of LKE) just LKE, and in Balder's case, they rule it together, operating on the same premise they have since 2013: that every defender is out to get them, and actively seeks to destroy their respective regions. Balder entering into a treaty with a defender region, as they have done for the first time ever, is unheard of (not to mention baffling.)

Just wanted to clear that up. Balder's sudden 180 concerning defenders (while NES and Onder pull Balder's strings,) is a total mystery to me. A policy of convenience perhaps? Maybe they saw it as an easy and quick way to change out their allies without having to worry about people wondering why. I really couldn't say with any degree of certainty, because if someone said just three years ago that Balder would sign a treaty with a defender region, everyone would have dismissed it as crazy, and laughed loudly at such a foolish notion.

As for the rest of the article, it's far too pointless to discuss it anymore. It happened and it's all done. Why this thread was started now, two months later, seems equally pointless.
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Roavin
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1309
Founded: Apr 07, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:09 am

The Church of Satan wrote:As for the rest of the article, it's far too pointless to discuss it anymore. It happened and it's all done. Why this thread was started now, two months later, seems equally pointless.


Well, first, it's in The League's interest to continue to point this out, loudly and eloquently.

Second, it's worth pointing out in general! OFO had built a decent diplomatic network over the span of years and was okay with throwing away almost all of it in an instant, in favor of BoM. As far as we outside observers can tell, nothing was done to rebuild any of it, and as was pointed out in the article, it's reasonable to think that it wouldn't even have taken much to avoid this in the first place.
Helpful Resources: One Stop Rules Shop | API documentation | NS Coders Discord
About me: Longest serving Prime Minister in TSP | Former First Warden of TGW | aka Curious Observations

Feel free to TG me, but not about moderation matters.

User avatar
Honeydewistania
Senator
 
Posts: 3560
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:26 am

Quebecshire, who has been known to indulge in a little trolling


Just a little. As a small treat :p


she/her
Represented by Benji Schubert Hepperle in the WA


[the] ice age [is] coming

User avatar
Reventus Koth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 507
Founded: Apr 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Reventus Koth » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:23 am

It's been months, Ike. Go outside.
Formerly known as Ambroscus Koth, +1843 posts. Trust no one.
Xanthal wrote:Only raiders can win in this war- a defender can keep them from winning one region, one update at a time, but there will always be the next region, the next update, and the next, forever.

User avatar
Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11081
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:29 am

I reiterate my earlier words on the implication that Osiris wilfully ended its relationship with other regions:
Tinhampton wrote:
Quebecshire wrote:I don’t know how anyone can look at the last ~2 weeks in Osiran foreign standing and conclude you’re "thriving" - it’s frankly a fascinating level to delusion to argue that. You’ve lost your oldest alliance, the one which provided you a lot of your connections and protection under Pax Polaris Occidens, as well as every other GCR relationship save an NAP with TRR.

It’s honestly the largest setback a GCR (or possibly any region) has incurred since the New Pacific Order in 2018...

The NPO caused (or at least allowed) spying on other GCRs for years. The OFO... signed a treaty. They didn't directly do anything; they just had diplomatic relations with a region that toyed with ousting Balder's government. Seriously...
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; *author of the most popular WA resolution ever
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

User avatar
The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4362
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:43 am

Wales wrote: The Brotherhood of Malice is concocting a smokescreen of disingenuous interpretations and twisted semantics in order to create a false narrative surrounding their malignant actions against GCRs. In doing so, they aim to downplay their misdeeds, or in some cases, cast them as morally neutral actions at worst. The propaganda spouted by prolific posters such as Wayneactia, Sygian (welcome back!), North Polish Union and others is an attempt to make you disregard the evidence of your eyes, and present themselves as the true victims of unjustified ostracism by much of the interregional landscape, when, in fact, they did it to themselves.

Rent free. :roll:

And fendas call me a conspiracy theorist. Have you tried removing the log from your own eyes before going after the alleged speck in mine?
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
Altino
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Jul 04, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Altino » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:30 am

1) Respectfully, it is not accurate or polite to put my words in the mouth of any regions that I hang around in. Most of the time their only response to my shenanigans is to ask me to please stop. That was the case during this too. Both TWP and Osiris both asked me to knock it off, and I ignored both of them because I don't hold leadership in either anymore and I don't like being told what to do.

2)
Altino, in the North Pacific’s Gameplay thread, after ties were cut. This statement insults TNP’s sovereignty by implying their subordination to the West Pacific

I was not saying TNP was subordinate to TWP, I was saying that an expectation was being set that other regions listen to them both or else. To be clear, I am under no illusion that certain regions dominate the game. Certain players dominate the game, and their influence is far reaching whether they are involved in high power regions or not. This is not new, it has always been true. Right now it just means that those regions involved in that pact of feeder loyalty (I forget the name of the treaty, sorry) are who decide what's up.

3) For the record, "Altino and co" has never been vapid or mean in the direction of The League. First of all, who would even count as the "and co" anymore? I'm largely uninvolved in GP and have no associates anymore. And second, I have always liked Quebec, and though we have sometimes disagreed, I have never and would never attack him or involve The League too deeply in his own shenanigans. He's up to no good bc he thinks it's funny to hate on Osiris. That's fine, I think it's funny to hate on Balder, which is why this whole mess was hilarious to me. You can take my jibes in their direction equally as seriously as you take Bec's jibes at Osiris. I mean them with even less candor than he does. I am just old, bored, and incredibly sarcastic.

EDIT: Oh, also - people are gonna just keep responding to this by saying it's old news. They literally hold feuds from stuff that happened a decade ago, there is no such thing as old news on NS. This doesn't really present new information so tbh probably not going to get anybody stirred up for more than like a day, but that's just how it is, don't let that make you feel like you're being dismissed. It's just an easier response than needing to explain yourself or rehash things. Respectfully. Like I in no way agree with this article or whatever lol, but dismissiveness in GP irks me.
Last edited by Altino on Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Altino Asteorra
Zai Sage of Karma | Hasal-Pharaoh of Osiris

Be excellent to each other and party on, dudes.☮

User avatar
Ikania
Senator
 
Posts: 3652
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ikania » Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:46 am

Reventus Koth wrote:It's been months, Ike. Go outside.

Never.
Ike Speardane
Executive Advisor in The League.
Proud soldier in the service of The Grey Wardens.
Two-time Defendervision winner. NSG Senate veteran.
Knuckle-dragging fuckstick from a backwater GCR. #SPRDNZ
just tax land lol
СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ

User avatar
Quebecshire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1043
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:18 pm

Ike decided to post this while I was in bed/passing out and honestly forgot about this thread until someone DMed me to make fun of the replies... which I must say, have not disappointed me.

Reventus Koth wrote:It's been months, Ike. Go outside.


Outside is scary! The sun is dangerous and there's this weird green bladed stuff all over the ground.
Last edited by Quebecshire on Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Defender Moralist | Consul of the LDF | Warden-Lieutenant
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.

User avatar
The Web of Life and Destiny
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Sep 17, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Web of Life and Destiny » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:30 pm

So hey uh this says “first issue”. For the purposes of archival, is this a newspaper or a one time thing?

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2025
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:19 pm

The Web of Life and Destiny wrote:So hey uh this says “first issue”. For the purposes of archival, is this a newspaper or a one time thing?

I'm guessing this is supposed to be something akin to Curious Observations or The Miniluv Messenger. But I gotta say, dredging up something that's been discussed to death already, for its debut? Woefully disappointing.
Roavin wrote:
The Church of Satan wrote:As for the rest of the article, it's far too pointless to discuss it anymore. It happened and it's all done. Why this thread was started now, two months later, seems equally pointless.


Well, first, it's in The League's interest to continue to point this out, loudly and eloquently.

Second, it's worth pointing out in general! OFO had built a decent diplomatic network over the span of years and was okay with throwing away almost all of it in an instant, in favor of BoM. As far as we outside observers can tell, nothing was done to rebuild any of it, and as was pointed out in the article, it's reasonable to think that it wouldn't even have taken much to avoid this in the first place.

Osiris is probably gonna wait it out, and rebuild those treaties in like two years when none of the GCRs care about Ragnarok anymore.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Ikania
Senator
 
Posts: 3652
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ikania » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:31 pm

The Web of Life and Destiny wrote:So hey uh this says “first issue”. For the purposes of archival, is this a newspaper or a one time thing?

I was hoping to establish a League-centric publication that could be regularly updated, but I can't be as active as I would like to be in order to do that. Instead, I decided to create this publication to display my long-winded essays, and maybe some guest spots if it comes to it.
Ike Speardane
Executive Advisor in The League.
Proud soldier in the service of The Grey Wardens.
Two-time Defendervision winner. NSG Senate veteran.
Knuckle-dragging fuckstick from a backwater GCR. #SPRDNZ
just tax land lol
СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ

User avatar
New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9378
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:00 pm

The Feeders, as well as Lazarus, Balder, and prominent UCRs like Europeia and The League, are all part of a Defender-Independent-Imperialist bloc
What a broad brush this puppet has. I think they've sunk into their paint bucket.*
Lazarus has never participated in a defense or a raid from the period Imkiville has been delegate to today. Though I guess we have to appreciate being including in the conspiracy. :p
*Best ribbing I can up with tonight Ike...I'm tired.
Last edited by New Rogernomics on Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Herald (Vice-Delegate) of Lazarus
Proedroi (Minister) of Foreign Affairs of Lazarus
Chocolate & Italian ice addict
"Ooh, we don't talk about Bruno, no, no, no..."
  • Former Lazarus Delegate (Humane Republic of Lazarus, 2015)
  • Minister of Culture & Media (Humane Republic of Lazarus)
  • Foreign Minister of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Senator of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Interior Commissioner of Lazarus (Pre-People's Republic of Lazarus)
  • At some point a member of the Grey family...then father vanished...
  • Foreign Minister of The Last Kingdom (RIP)
  • ADN:DSA Rep for Eastern Roman Empire
  • Honoratus Servant of the Holy Land (Eastern Roman Empire)
  • UN/WA Delegate of Trans Atlantice (RIP)

User avatar
Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1852
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:13 pm

New Rogernomics wrote:
The Feeders, as well as Lazarus, Balder, and prominent UCRs like Europeia and The League, are all part of a Defender-Independent-Imperialist bloc
What a broad brush this puppet has. I think they've sunk into their paint bucket.*
Lazarus has never participated in a defense or a raid from the period Imkiville has been delegate to today. Though I guess we have to appreciate being including in the conspiracy. :p
*Best ribbing I can up with tonight Ike...I'm tired.

that's exactly what the defender-imperialist bloc WANTS us to think
TNP EIA
WA (Co-)Authorship: SC#390

10000 Islands Foreign Affairs wrote:~The population of 10000 Islands suffered a huge increase
Ankuran wrote:"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."
[violet] wrote:lol
Douglas Adams wrote:In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, everybody dies.
Nation reflects RL beliefs, especially bad ones. All stats are canon.

User avatar
New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9378
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:19 pm

Comfed wrote:
New Rogernomics wrote: What a broad brush this puppet has. I think they've sunk into their paint bucket.*
Lazarus has never participated in a defense or a raid from the period Imkiville has been delegate to today. Though I guess we have to appreciate being including in the conspiracy. :p
*Best ribbing I can up with tonight Ike...I'm tired.

that's exactly what the defender-imperialist bloc WANTS us to think
I am waiting for the sequel to this, where everyone dies in a red wedding.
Herald (Vice-Delegate) of Lazarus
Proedroi (Minister) of Foreign Affairs of Lazarus
Chocolate & Italian ice addict
"Ooh, we don't talk about Bruno, no, no, no..."
  • Former Lazarus Delegate (Humane Republic of Lazarus, 2015)
  • Minister of Culture & Media (Humane Republic of Lazarus)
  • Foreign Minister of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Senator of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Interior Commissioner of Lazarus (Pre-People's Republic of Lazarus)
  • At some point a member of the Grey family...then father vanished...
  • Foreign Minister of The Last Kingdom (RIP)
  • ADN:DSA Rep for Eastern Roman Empire
  • Honoratus Servant of the Holy Land (Eastern Roman Empire)
  • UN/WA Delegate of Trans Atlantice (RIP)

User avatar
Wayneactia
Senator
 
Posts: 3757
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:21 pm

Wales wrote:The Brotherhood of Malice is concocting a smokescreen of disingenuous interpretations and twisted semantics in order to create a false narrative surrounding their malignant actions against GCRs. In doing so, they aim to downplay their misdeeds, or in some cases, cast them as morally neutral actions at worst. The propaganda spouted by prolific posters such as Wayneactia, Sygian (welcome back!), North Polish Union and others is an attempt to make you disregard the evidence of your eyes, and present themselves as the true victims of unjustified ostracism by much of the interregional landscape, when, in fact, they did it to themselves.

Geez Ike, it sure is nice to be noticed. Mind clarifying just what propaganda I have been "spouting"? I am fairly confident that pretty much everyone will confirm I am neither a member of the government, nor do I speak on behalf of Osiris or BOM. I call out bullshit, plain and simple and Quebec (just like the real life province) is a treasure trove of it. As for unjustified ostracism? As I have said before my windows are already smashed, so I really have nothing to lose. At least you and me share that much in common.....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6762
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:07 am

Right or wrong, coups are part of the game, they’re political, and the response to them are part of the game too, that’s also political. My sense from the tone and the logic of this post is the author is conflating NS coups with RL problematic behaviour, deserving the same response.

I’m not sure I understand what the big question is, OFO won’t disown BoM because the Brotherhood was foundational to OFO as the author said. Just like when imperialists invaded TRR, Balder didn’t disown the culprits. When Lazarus was most recently couped, the response also was consistent along geopolitical lines. I mean, sure it can be frustrating, but it’s also predictable…

Probably the more interesting idea that has spun out of this thread is the notion of a convergence of the defender-independent world. In a way, it would kind of be a throwback, pre-DEN; presumably the invasion of Stargate as its catalyst.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Wayneactia
Senator
 
Posts: 3757
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:54 am

Unibot III wrote:Probably the more interesting idea that has spun out of this thread is the notion of a convergence of the defender-independent world. In a way, it would kind of be a throwback, pre-DEN; presumably the invasion tag of Stargate as its catalyst.

Fixed that for you. Speaking of convergence, are you sure you don’t mean “colonization”? Given the fact one whole sphere of the game is so terrified that they dissolved treaties, in favour of imperialists and an organization that infiltrated the very heart of the FRA, and ultimately killed it. All of this on the good (a loose term, I know….) word of Joe McCarthy Quebecshire who was mentored by Tim. The NPO could really take some lessons from all of this on how to actually run an Empire, as Tim has taught us all a master class…..

*Removes tinfoil hat*
Last edited by Wayneactia on Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6762
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:24 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Probably the more interesting idea that has spun out of this thread is the notion of a convergence of the defender-independent world. In a way, it would kind of be a throwback, pre-DEN; presumably the invasion tag of Stargate as its catalyst.

Fixed that for you. Speaking of convergence, are you sure you don’t mean “colonization”? Given the fact one whole sphere of the game is so terrified that they dissolved treaties, in favour of imperialists and an organization that infiltrated the very heart of the FRA, and ultimately killed it. All of this on the good (a loose term, I know….) word of Joe McCarthy Quebecshire who was mentored by Tim. The NPO could really take some lessons from all of this on how to actually run an Empire, as Tim has taught us all a master class…..

*Removes tinfoil hat*


You can invade without tagging, but you can’t tag without invading. :p

People, like who you’re describing, defeat themselves given enough time and exposure.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2025
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Probably the more interesting idea that has spun out of this thread is the notion of a convergence of the defender-independent world. In a way, it would kind of be a throwback, pre-DEN; presumably the invasion tag of Stargate as its catalyst.

Fixed that for you. Speaking of convergence, are you sure you don’t mean “colonization”? Given the fact one whole sphere of the game is so terrified that they dissolved treaties, in favour of imperialists and an organization that infiltrated the very heart of the FRA, and ultimately killed it. All of this on the good (a loose term, I know….) word of Joe McCarthy Quebecshire who was mentored by Tim. The NPO could really take some lessons from all of this on how to actually run an Empire, as Tim has taught us all a master class…..

*Removes tinfoil hat*

I gotta know, where does this foolish idea of imperialists "defeating" the FRA come from? Both sides fell to inactivity. Just because Onder waited a year and declared "victory" with no proof at all of such a victory actually existing anywhere ever, doesn't make it true. It just makes one old man more willing to yell at clouds than the other. xD
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Ikania
Senator
 
Posts: 3652
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ikania » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:30 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Wales wrote:The Brotherhood of Malice is concocting a smokescreen of disingenuous interpretations and twisted semantics in order to create a false narrative surrounding their malignant actions against GCRs. In doing so, they aim to downplay their misdeeds, or in some cases, cast them as morally neutral actions at worst. The propaganda spouted by prolific posters such as Wayneactia, Sygian (welcome back!), North Polish Union and others is an attempt to make you disregard the evidence of your eyes, and present themselves as the true victims of unjustified ostracism by much of the interregional landscape, when, in fact, they did it to themselves.

Geez Ike, it sure is nice to be noticed. Mind clarifying just what propaganda I have been "spouting"? I am fairly confident that pretty much everyone will confirm I am neither a member of the government, nor do I speak on behalf of Osiris or BOM. I call out bullshit, plain and simple and Quebec (just like the real life province) is a treasure trove of it. As for unjustified ostracism? As I have said before my windows are already smashed, so I really have nothing to lose. At least you and me share that much in common.....

Wayne, your entire career in the field of Gameplay armchairing has been defined by firing off half-baked misrepresentations of factual events in a way that attempts to embarrass your enemies, only to make a fool of yourself in the process. You are a hapless stooge and surrogate of the Brotherhood of Malice, whether or not you participate in government. You have continually attempted to downplay the implications of Operation Ragnarok, which were laid out quite clearly in the article above - implications which you have not bothered to refute, even in your most recent post in Balder's thread, wherein you frame this as a matter of a "failed conversation about a 'possible' coup". All summer you parroted the Malice line concerning their definite (not "possible") attempted takeover of Balder, and despite being refuted at every turn, continued throwing out cryptically inane one-liners at the end of every sentence, followed by five periods, as if to say "it really makes you wonder", without anyone understanding what there is to wonder about. I pity that you are seemingly Malice's most active propagandist, as if that is the case, they really need to up their game. You have never been one to let facts get in the way of a good jeer against Defenders, I only wish you weren't so incorrigibly averse to using logic in your arguments.

Wayneactia is a very good example of the ways in which those who align with Malice like to hop over and around actually addressing the issues that have arisen concerning Ragnarok, and instead attempt to pick at peripheral footnotes to turn them into broad, sweeping arguments that muddy the waters. "Malice only possibly did it, but even if they did, it's no big deal, and even if it was, it's not Osiris's obligation to disavow it, and it could only be that way because of a Defender conspiracy." One may notice the complete lack of any forceful attempt to refute the main points made in this article - rather, those white knights for Malice come out swinging with dismissive jeers in lieu of any substantive arguments. My appreciation to Altino for addressing this matter rather more seriously.

To her point, the issue is not so much with Altino's comments as a representative of the Osiran government - though I disagree with her implication that nothing she says holds any sway. As a Hasal-Pharaoh and a prominent member of the opinion-forming class in the Osiris Fraternal Order, your words and actions set examples, well-demonstrated by the fact that a crew of Osirans followed you into those regions which terminated treaties to back up your insults.

To the point made by Unibot, whom I loathe, though I feel like it must be addressed: he has it the wrong way around. There is nothing morally problematic with anything related to a coup or otherwise in NS. I don't cast personal aspersions or judgments on the people behind Operation Ragnarok. What I am talking about is simply practical politics: when you engage in GCR politics, the key to building a diplomatic relationship must be trust, and that trust is established by a baseline, mutual respect for the regional sovereignty of all parties involved. The actions of Malice, and their political arm the OFO, demonstrate clearly that Osiris as a region cannot be trusted, and we know that many of their former allies feel that way having withdrawn their treaties. The importance of this particular affair in Balder, besides recency bias, is the fact that there exists one GCR that stands out among all the rest which we now know to tacitly endorse invasions of sister GCRs. There is no grand, sweeping point beyond that. The rest of the fun comes in picking apart their attempts to downplay, deny or twist the simple facts, and so the further they dig their own hole, the sadder and more pathetic it all becomes. Making mention of an ancient invasion of TRR by imperialists, not disavowed by a Balder that doesn't exist anymore, seems irrelevant to me.

The "convergence" of Defenders and Independents is not the natural state of things, but rather a trend directly caused by the alienation of all factions in Gameplay who do not subscribe to Malice's ideology of Raider Unity. The ball was in the court of those raiders who had the power to maintain a balance of sorts, but instead opted to double down on their malicious behaviour.

Tinhampton's comment seems a little odd to me. To make the argument that Osiris's only wrongdoing was "signing a treaty" neglects to address any of the points made against that idea in the article itself.

As to CoS's point, I understand it and even agree to some degree. The notion of Balder and LKE being the same political unit, much as Osiris and BoM are, was the cause of my own leaving the region some five years ago. How little I knew then. However, the influence of LKE over Balder as some sort of controlling hegemon has decayed at this juncture to the point where the argument becomes irrelevant. You may find it baffling that Balder is entering into alliances with Defenders, topical if I may say on this auspicious day marking a treaty between Balder and The League. However, I find it perfectly fitting, because I do not subscribe to the same outdated assessment of Balder as you, that they are dogmatically opposed to Defenders and that Balder remains a hotbed of fanatical imperialism. The very fact that Balder is doing this represents their exercising regional sovereignty to make strategic decisions that might contradict Imperialist credo. That is more proof of their independence as a region than Osiris has yet produced.

Part of the reason I posted this at this point was to serve as a reminder. It would be shameful to let people forget about this unresolved issue just because time has passed. The idea of "crawling back to Osiris" once the "heat dies down" implies that there would be any reason to go back to the previous state of affairs at some point in the future. However, the recent pact between Gameplay giants has shown us that they take this threat quite seriously, and I don't see how any region would have cause to go back to being friends with Osiris when the OFO has already demonstrated how little they care for friends if it means saying one bad word about their puppetmaster. If they want to repair the state of their relations, something should change. You may find it pedantic - I don't care.

I am glad that my article has had the intended effect of generating discussion, although I wish those in the opposing camp would bother to try refuting it instead of deflecting.
Last edited by Ikania on Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ike Speardane
Executive Advisor in The League.
Proud soldier in the service of The Grey Wardens.
Two-time Defendervision winner. NSG Senate veteran.
Knuckle-dragging fuckstick from a backwater GCR. #SPRDNZ
just tax land lol
СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ

User avatar
Wayneactia
Senator
 
Posts: 3757
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:20 pm

Ikania wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Geez Ike, it sure is nice to be noticed. Mind clarifying just what propaganda I have been "spouting"? I am fairly confident that pretty much everyone will confirm I am neither a member of the government, nor do I speak on behalf of Osiris or BOM. I call out bullshit, plain and simple and Quebec (just like the real life province) is a treasure trove of it. As for unjustified ostracism? As I have said before my windows are already smashed, so I really have nothing to lose. At least you and me share that much in common.....

Wayne, your entire career in the field of Gameplay armchairing has been defined by firing off half-baked misrepresentations of factual events in a way that attempts to embarrass your enemies, only to make a fool of yourself in the process. You are a hapless stooge and surrogate of the Brotherhood of Malice, whether or not you participate in government. You have continually attempted to downplay the implications of Operation Ragnarok, which were laid out quite clearly in the article above - implications which you have not bothered to refute, even in your most recent post in Balder's thread, wherein you frame this as a matter of a "failed conversation about a 'possible' coup". All summer you parroted the Malice line concerning their definite (not "possible") attempted takeover of Balder, and despite being refuted at every turn, continued throwing out cryptically inane one-liners at the end of every sentence, followed by five periods, as if to say "it really makes you wonder", without anyone understanding what there is to wonder about. I pity that you are seemingly Malice's most active propagandist, as if that is the case, they really need to up their game. You have never been one to let facts get in the way of a good jeer against Defenders, I only wish you weren't so incorrigibly averse to using logic in your arguments.

Wayneactia is a very good example of the ways in which those who align with Malice like to hop over and around actually addressing the issues that have arisen concerning Ragnarok, and instead attempt to pick at peripheral footnotes to turn them into broad, sweeping arguments that muddy the waters. "Malice only possibly did it, but even if they did, it's no big deal, and even if it was, it's not Osiris's obligation to disavow it, and it could only be that way because of a Defender conspiracy." One may notice the complete lack of any forceful attempt to refute the main points made in this article - rather, those white knights for Malice come out swinging with dismissive jeers in lieu of any substantive arguments. My appreciation to Altino for addressing this matter rather more seriously.

:clap: Well said Ike, well said....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6762
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:18 pm

To the point made by Unibot, whom I loathe, though I feel like it must be addressed: he has it the wrong way around. There is nothing morally problematic with anything related to a coup or otherwise in NS. I don't cast personal aspersions or judgments on the people behind Operation Ragnarok. What I am talking about is simply practical politics: when you engage in GCR politics, the key to building a diplomatic relationship must be trust, and that trust is established by a baseline, mutual respect for the regional sovereignty of all parties involved. The actions of Malice, and their political arm the OFO, demonstrate clearly that Osiris as a region cannot be trusted, and we know that many of their former allies feel that way having withdrawn their treaties. The importance of this particular affair in Balder, besides recency bias, is the fact that there exists one GCR that stands out among all the rest which we now know to tacitly endorse invasions of sister GCRs. There is no grand, sweeping point beyond that. The rest of the fun comes in picking apart their attempts to downplay, deny or twist the simple facts, and so the further they dig their own hole, the sadder and more pathetic it all becomes. Making mention of an ancient invasion of TRR by imperialists, not disavowed by a Balder that doesn't exist anymore, seems irrelevant to me.


I appreciate the response, Ikania.

The reason I had the impression you were conflating a coup with RL problematic behaviour was due to the length of the essay, the level of detail, and the tone that it took, which seemed naive to conventional political behaviour.

Practical politics dictates that regional governments protect their most powerful: when someone unimportant in a region makes a GP mistake they’re a liability to the region’s reputation and they’re tossed out without a thought; when an important person in a region makes a mistake, the region encircles around them, protects them… denies things, disputes, doubles down etc. Regions make these calculations intuitively and the role that a region’s most powerful play in deciding how to react to these decisions biases regions towards protecting its leadership without regard for the reputational fallout.

RL problematic behaviour is a common exception to this phenomenon, as it carries much greater reputational risk for a region.

I don’t disagree that regions shouldn’t trust a region that flirts with couping, everything you’ve said here seems right to me. I just don’t think there’s anything surprising or novel about Osiris’ response to this? It’s completely predictable. It’s how GCRs always act when their most important players get caught supporting a coup. It’s how Balder reacted in multiple occasions, it’s how TWP reacted in multiple occasions, it’s how TEP reacted in multiple occasions in these circumstances. (NPO is an exception to this, because everyone is disposable in the NPO barring the Emperor. Anyone can be thrown under the bus!)

EDIT: I’ll also note that for as ancient as TRR Invasion is, the people responsible for it still run Balder and have never apologized for it.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2025
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:22 pm

Ikania wrote:Making mention of an ancient invasion of TRR by imperialists, not disavowed by a Balder that doesn't exist anymore, seems irrelevant to me.

Reminder: Onder himself was the point for that. If there's anybody that has remained consistent in their motives and behaviors, look no further than Onder.

Also, in fairness, Balder supported the coups of Lazarus. So much for Balder's endorsement of regional sovereignty. So you'll excuse me if I think Balder's motivations were ever anything but pure self-interest and convenience. Balder would support the coup of any GCR if it proved advantageous to them.
Ikania wrote:The "convergence" of Defenders and Independents is not the natural state of things, but rather a trend directly caused by the alienation of all factions in Gameplay who do not subscribe to Malice's ideology of Raider Unity. The ball was in the court of those raiders who had the power to maintain a balance of sorts, but instead opted to double down on their malicious behaviour.

I'm willing to entertain this notion. After all, no defender has ever actually threatened Balder since the region was first created. I'm not aware of any defender region plotting to coup Balder either. So the news that a raider military has, could have made Balder realize that its fendaphobia was never actually warranted, and instead the side of R/D that lives by invading other regions, might actually pose a threat to them. If that's all it took to wake them out of their delusions, I'm disappointed it hadn't been done sooner. :-/
Ikania wrote:As to CoS's point, I understand it and even agree to some degree. The notion of Balder and LKE being the same political unit, much as Osiris and BoM are, was the cause of my own leaving the region some five years ago. How little I knew then. However, the influence of LKE over Balder as some sort of controlling hegemon has decayed at this juncture to the point where the argument becomes irrelevant. You may find it baffling that Balder is entering into alliances with Defenders, topical if I may say on this auspicious day marking a treaty between Balder and The League. However, I find it perfectly fitting, because I do not subscribe to the same outdated assessment of Balder as you, that they are dogmatically opposed to Defenders and that Balder remains a hotbed of fanatical imperialism. The very fact that Balder is doing this represents their exercising regional sovereignty to make strategic decisions that might contradict Imperialist credo. That is more proof of their independence as a region than Osiris has yet produced.

Well, I mean, the power in LKE was always only in the hands of Onder. If Onder pulls any strings in Balder, it's the same as LKE doing it. But Balder always was the weakest part of the imperialist sphere. Their power and influence was entirely dependent on which side of R/D they allied with.
Ikania wrote:Part of the reason I posted this at this point was to serve as a reminder. It would be shameful to let people forget about this unresolved issue just because time has passed. The idea of "crawling back to Osiris" once the "heat dies down" implies that there would be any reason to go back to the previous state of affairs at some point in the future. However, the recent pact between Gameplay giants has shown us that they take this threat quite seriously, and I don't see how any region would have cause to go back to being friends with Osiris when the OFO has already demonstrated how little they care for friends if it means saying one bad word about their puppetmaster. If they want to repair the state of their relations, something should change. You may find it pedantic - I don't care.

I dunno about crawling back, but when Ragnarok becomes irrelevant in two years or so, all the other GCRs will revisit their position on Osiris. It's the way of things. It always happens, with very few exceptions.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Gameplay

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads