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Partnership for Sovereignty | DSA Joins

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Toerana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 198
Founded: Nov 27, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Toerana » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:27 am

I feel like the point's being missed here.

XKI is only okay with WA Campaign TGs if their delegate approved it, or it is by a 'long term' WA Resident, as they appear to view unsolicited WA Campaign tgs as a violation of regional sovereignty.

ALARMED that this shortcut presents a cheap and easy way to sway the WA vote of 10000 Islands, directly presenting a threat to the sovereignty of 10000 Islands,


XKI then (presumably) approves the sending off a WA Campaign Telegram. Their delegate approved it so yes it's okay inside of XKI, but it's hypocritical because they appear to view unsolicited WA Campaign TGs as a violation of regional sovereignty, while approving the sending of one themselves.

This makes XKI hypocritical.

The argument of "but WALL did it too!" doesn't remove the hypocrisy on the part of XKI, it's just a statement of a fact - WALL also sent a WA Campaign telegram. Cool, so? As far as I can see no WALL member region has a policy as restrictive as XKI does.

The Python wrote:The PfS can't but WALL can?

My perception of the WALL telegram was it was a response. It's a bit amusing to argue that WALL can't respond to campaigning when the other party sent the first TG.
It is explicitly stated in the openly sentence of the telegram that it is a response

This statement is a response to the Partnership for Sovereignty’s mass telegram to all WA members, by the World Assembly Legislative League. Our policy is not normally to issue mass telegrams except in exceptional circumstances, or to respond to a mass telegram that has already been sent, as we do not support filling telegram inboxes with unsolicited WA campaign material


Tim-Opolis wrote:If you don’t want campaign TG’s, block them. Otherwise, I’m sure you can find a way to survive.

Tell that to XKI :^)


Was it unreasonable? No. It's to be expected that two large blocs are going to campaign when they stand on opposing sides of an issue.
Was it hypocritical? Yes. That's what's being argued here not a generic "XKI bad" or "XKI unreasonable"

It would be nice for XKI's leadership to at least acknowledge that, instead of claim that because they like this unsolicited TG it's okay and not hypocritical, even if they stand firmly against other unsolicited that they don't agree with or approve of.
Last edited by Toerana on Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Kanaia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: May 05, 2005
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kanaia » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:14 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Hmmmmm….. A defenders only organization, with League in its name. Hopefully this one fairs better than the last. :roll:

You really do always miss don't you?

"The trick is to learn how to pick out fools. Look for those who think things simple, who abhor uncertainty, and who are incapable of setting aside their summary judgment. And above all, look for those who believe flattering things. They are the true path to wisdom. For the claims they find the most absurd or offensive will be the ones most worthy of your attention.”~R. Scott Bakker, The White Luck Warrior
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Partnership for Sovereignty
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 22
Founded: Jan 20, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Partnership for Sovereignty » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:01 pm

The Partnership For Sovereignty has published a dispatch highlighting our new resources in the Writers Corner!

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1588626
The Partnership for Sovereignty
Self-determination, Regional Sovereignty, and Respect

Want drafting help or PfS notifications? Join our Discord!
Read about our Writers Corner resources

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Partnership for Sovereignty
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 22
Founded: Jan 20, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Partnership for Sovereignty » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:31 am

The Partnership for Sovereignty is proud to announce the admission of Democratic Socialist Assembly as its ninth member!
The Partnership for Sovereignty
Self-determination, Regional Sovereignty, and Respect

Want drafting help or PfS notifications? Join our Discord!
Read about our Writers Corner resources

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HumanSanity
Envoy
 
Posts: 344
Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby HumanSanity » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:37 am

An incredibly warm welcome to the Democratic Socialist Assembly!
HumanSanity
Minister of Defense of the South Pacific
Former Delegate of 10000 Islands and Chief Executive of Renegade Islands Alliance

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Emodea
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: May 21, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Emodea » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 am

Welcome to the PfS! Great to have y'all with us ^_^
Moon,
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South Asians
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 11, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby South Asians » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:18 am

Welcome to PfS, DSA! Looking forward to working with y'all.
A supporter of centrism and democracy.
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Vice President and Administrator of The Free Nations Region.
Former Minister of Military Affairs of the South Pacific.
Former Advisor to the South Pacific Cabinet.

Soldier in SPSF and Director of FNDA.
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The Python
Diplomat
 
Posts: 936
Founded: Jul 24, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Python » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:05 pm

:D
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Political compass 9Axes 8Values
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Wascoitan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Wascoitan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:20 pm

lol, aren't yall the ones who were yelling and screaming about a few rogue TBH members voting on an RMB? have to say, with that in mind it's an interesting choice to invite the people who blatantly committed espionage against another region (an embassy partner of TSP, the social liberal union, no less) with the goal of purging their critics.
Last edited by Wascoitan on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well fuck, guess I should write something here uhhh
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Grea Kriopia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Jan 18, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Grea Kriopia » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:52 pm

Wascoitan wrote:lol, aren't yall the ones who were yelling and screaming about a few rogue TBH members voting on an RMB? have to say, with that in mind it's an interesting choice to invite the people who blatantly committed espionage against another region (an embassy partner of TSP, the social liberal union, no less) with the goal of purging their critics.

This is why false equivalence makes for a bad argument. Unlike DSA, TBH went so far as to manipulate the democratic voting system of another region which is in no way comparable despite your best attempts to downplay it.

Welcome to the PfS, DSA :)
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Wascoitan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Wascoitan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:17 pm

Grea Kriopia wrote:
Wascoitan wrote:lol, aren't yall the ones who were yelling and screaming about a few rogue TBH members voting on an RMB? have to say, with that in mind it's an interesting choice to invite the people who blatantly committed espionage against another region (an embassy partner of TSP, the social liberal union, no less) with the goal of purging their critics.

This is why false equivalence makes for a bad argument. Unlike DSA, TBH went so far as to manipulate the democratic voting system of another region which is in no way comparable despite your best attempts to downplay it.

Welcome to the PfS, DSA :)

idk I feel like DSA spying on the people they were supposedly allies with a mere few months before that with the intent of purging people who criticized them for their actions regarding NSLeft is a bit worse than two members of TBH independently doing something like that. but nah, apparently two members of TBH independently (as in not with the consent of the council of hawks) doing something is worth a proscription while DSA actively sanctioning a spying operation on another region then continuing to defend their actions afterwards (as they did in the TLA discord server) is worth inviting them into your voting block. I also find it interesting you are trying to appeal to democracy as as I said before they were spying to fucking purge their opposition, idk seems like something that would be a bit more concerning to you if you really cared about "democracy".
Well fuck, guess I should write something here uhhh
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Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1169
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:21 pm

Grea Kriopia wrote:
Wascoitan wrote:lol, aren't yall the ones who were yelling and screaming about a few rogue TBH members voting on an RMB? have to say, with that in mind it's an interesting choice to invite the people who blatantly committed espionage against another region (an embassy partner of TSP, the social liberal union, no less) with the goal of purging their critics.

This is why false equivalence makes for a bad argument. Unlike DSA, TBH went so far as to manipulate the democratic voting system of another region which is in no way comparable despite your best attempts to downplay it.

Welcome to the PfS, DSA :)

The way you put it, a few rogue TBH members were able to subvert and undermine the government of TSP with their... RMB votes. On a WA recommendation.

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Quebecshire
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 384
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 pm

Comfed wrote:The way you put it, a few rogue TBH members were able to subvert and undermine the government of TSP with their... RMB votes. On a WA recommendation.

To alter a WA vote in bad faith is to subvert and undermine the process of determining that WA vote. So yes. They attempted to subvert and undermine the process of the Office of WA Legislation (a permanent executive office in TSP).
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Varanius
Envoy
 
Posts: 272
Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:33 pm

The whole TBH argument is a distraction from the fact of the matter that PfS decided DSA, a group that spied on a TSP embassy partner, was member material. Hopefully that’ll be reconsidered.
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Wascoitan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Wascoitan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:33 pm

Varanius wrote:The whole TBH argument is a distraction from the fact of the matter that PfS decided DSA, a group that spied on a TSP embassy partner, was member material. Hopefully that’ll be reconsidered.

would also like to second this, I included the TBH thing more as a small little snipe, wasn't intending for it to become the main subject of discussion. but hey, if PfS wishes to defend the actions of DSA with "but TBH is worse tho, so it's totally ok what they did" then feel free.
Last edited by Wascoitan on Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well fuck, guess I should write something here uhhh
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Stuff I did
turning "anti-actually talking about things" into a glorified art form since 2021
note: opinions are my own, they represent no one else unless explicitly stated in the post

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Great Algerstonia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1625
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:37 pm

It appears that DSA violated

I. Statement of Principles

1. Self-Determination. The Partnership for Sovereignty stands in support of the right of natives of a region to determine the status of their own region.

based on what I am reading.
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Minskiev
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1702
Founded: Apr 20, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minskiev » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:40 pm

*yawns*

welcome DSA.
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Former Speaker of the Rejected Realms
Deputy Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times
Author of GA#565 and SC#362


WA Ambassador: Wallace Russell
My views DO represent my regions in ALL capacities!

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The Python
Diplomat
 
Posts: 936
Founded: Jul 24, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Python » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:40 pm

While I don't know what happened besides the vague "DSA spied on SLU", this seems like a points-scoring attempt from raider-aligned players against the PfS.
Last edited by The Python on Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Card farmer, WA fenda and filthy cosmo. he/they pronouns
For: Universal healthcare,Socialism,Human/animal rights,Direct Democracy
Against: Authoritarianism,Racism,War,Nationalism,Factory farming
Political compass 9Axes 8Values
fenda nations always deserve banjection - Evil Cub
I wish i could be quoted in a forum sig v_v - Alfonzo
anyone more than double python's age is old - Altmoras
The difference between an invader and an imperialist is that...the imperialist will write several paragraphs about how the region's poll officer's cousin's friend's soccer coach once arranged his fridge magnets to spell out FRA and this is therefore a great leap forward in their war effort. - Altmoras
What they say about me
SEASON T*REE!

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Wascoitan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Wascoitan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:42 pm

The Python wrote:While I don't know what happened besides a blanket "DSA spied on SLU", this seems like a points-scoring attempt from raider-aligned players against the PfS.

it's the truth, they spied on SLU in order to dig up dirt (most of which just ended up being fucking normal conversation lmao) on people that dared criticize the way they handled leaving NSLeft.
https://thedsa.proboards.com/thread/654 ... ent-goncar

they even admitted to the term in their post about the situation

"I took and still take full responsibility for this action, it was my proposal after all, and I defend that act of infiltration"

like I said, feel free to dismiss this as just "raider complaining" after all it's not like I expected you to care about what people from NSLeft regions think, but it's an interesting foreign strategy for TSP to allow those who spied on their embassy partners into a pact of theirs.
Last edited by Wascoitan on Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Well fuck, guess I should write something here uhhh
she/her
Stuff I did
turning "anti-actually talking about things" into a glorified art form since 2021
note: opinions are my own, they represent no one else unless explicitly stated in the post

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New Scottsville
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: May 14, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New Scottsville » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:32 pm

So the then-President of the DSA asked the MoJ to "investigate" an issue with members that held dual citizenship between SLU and DSA. This lead to the MoJ pretending to be a noob to collect conversations from those SLU members that show them working as a group and attacking the current DSA gov't. This lead to the DSA Gov't removing those members and then the PfS brought DSA into their WA Voting Bloc?

Am I missing something? This is what I gathered from the DSA Forums.

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Sincluda
Envoy
 
Posts: 341
Founded: Feb 05, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sincluda » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:40 pm

New Scottsville wrote:So the then-President of the DSA asked the MoJ to "investigate" an issue with members that held dual citizenship between SLU and DSA. This lead to the MoJ pretending to be a noob to collect conversations from those SLU members that show them working as a group and attacking the current DSA gov't. This lead to the DSA Gov't removing those members and then the PfS brought DSA into their WA Voting Bloc?

Am I missing something? This is what I gathered from the DSA Forums.

Well, gee, I'm sure the side doing the espionage isn't biased.

Not saying that I totally think that what DSA was wrong (opinion not fully formed) but you'll have to expand your sources of information.
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Wascoitan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Wascoitan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:21 pm

New Scottsville wrote:So the then-President of the DSA asked the MoJ to "investigate" an issue with members that held dual citizenship between SLU and DSA. This lead to the MoJ pretending to be a noob to collect conversations from those SLU members that show them working as a group and attacking the current DSA gov't. This lead to the DSA Gov't removing those members and then the PfS brought DSA into their WA Voting Bloc?

Am I missing something? This is what I gathered from the DSA Forums.

the "working as a group" bit is inaccurate, there wasn't some underlying plot in SLU to slander the DSA government or anything. all they were doing was talking about DSA during the events that caused them to leave NSLeft, which yeah surprise surprise SLU is going to discuss affairs that involved SLU (as this did). funny that. but beyond that that's a relatively good summary yes. essentially the DSA Gov't sent in someone to spy on SLU with the hopes of finding instances of them complaining about DSA Gov't. so like I said, a purge of political opponents, based off what pretty much everyone involved besides DSA (and even a few people in DSA who ended up leaving over the situation lol) (TCB, TLA, SLU, etc.) to be pretty dubious charges.
Well fuck, guess I should write something here uhhh
she/her
Stuff I did
turning "anti-actually talking about things" into a glorified art form since 2021
note: opinions are my own, they represent no one else unless explicitly stated in the post

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