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[SPLIT] Blacklist/Whitelist discussion

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Twins of Hearts
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Nov 07, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Twins of Hearts » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:57 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Twins of Hearts wrote:. Don't like them, ban them! Do not want to talk about old harms, block them!

I’m almost certain the point of the blacklist is this exactly

If it ended there, I do not think anyone would complain. But alas and alack, many blacklisted players are pursued by the blacklisting player via telegram, DM's offsite, etc to whatever new home they try to find and make for themselves. This is what elevates the Blacklisting process into organized bullying and discrimination.

Kandorith wrote:
Twins of Hearts wrote:To put a light spin on it, "Why can't we all just, get along?"


If we could without toxicity a blacklist would not exist, I am completely certain of that. As far as I know such "lists" exist because ONE person can not get along with an entire or multiple communities. Too be fair, again, there's a reason why people get "blacklisted" and from every case I have seen they are not the victims.


Sure, "reasons" exist, "excuses" exist too. The individual regions should decide without interference from extra regional, self proclaimed "authorities" if a nation is fit to be part of their region or not.
I would say , as an example: Nation X gets called names they dont like by Nation Y. Regional leadership intervenes, and kick bans Nation Y. Nation X takes it upon themselves under preferences to block telegrams from Nation Y. Nation Y continues to annoy them on the forum, Nation X "foes" Nation Y. It takes very little time to do, it exists already, and no blacklisting is needed. If the problematic behavior escalates, Nation X can choose to communicate with Moderation Staff about it.

With all the different cultures, upbringings, "baggage" personal philosophies, etc that interact in this game, some conflict is normal and to be expected. The Whitelist is a Campaign to help Regional leadership to intervene in a calm, systematic way, if possible in those non criminal, non rulebreaking scenarios where misunderstandings are devolving into bad feelings.

We can do better, we should do better!

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Custadia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: May 29, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Custadia » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:10 pm

Xoriet wrote:A fair part of keeping these players out of our communities is to protect our communities from people who have exploited, abused, and harassed our members


I think this is the most important point of this thread.

Off-site administrators (the 'self-proclaimed "authorities"' the campaign references) have a responsibility to protect the people using the platforms they provide and that we all enjoy. Each and every blacklisted player has demonstrated that they are a threat to the people around them. Allowing such players to return to make amends-thereby giving them the opportunity to cause further harm-would be an abandonment of that responsibility.
Last edited by Custadia on Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Church of Satan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1029
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:08 pm

Twins of Hearts wrote:The individual regions should decide without interference from extra regional, self proclaimed "authorities" if a nation is fit to be part of their region or not.

To that point: Every region has a right to know of any players who, having proved to be a threat to the safety of one region's community, will likely be exactly that in literally any and every other region they join.
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Why the Whitelist Campaign is bad
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Elegarth
Envoy
 
Posts: 258
Founded: Feb 08, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Elegarth » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:28 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Twins of Hearts wrote:The individual regions should decide without interference from extra regional, self proclaimed "authorities" if a nation is fit to be part of their region or not.

To that point: Every region has a right to know of any players who, having proved to be a threat to the safety of one region's community, will likely be exactly that in literally any and every other region they join.

This. It is not only the correct things to do, but almost a responsibility, for anyone taking care and protecting a community, to alert others of potential dangers and threats to their wellbeing.

All this is OBVIOUS, man. I'm really not sure at this point why you keep trying to spin this into something else.

Let me try this: what you are saying is the equivalent of saying that, if a person is in the sexual offender list of country A, country A should never tell other countries about it cuz that one person may be affected. Does this RL example helps make it clear why your comments are so OUT of line?
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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2547
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:06 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:There was a blacklist, but I defeated everyone on it. Needed to get my car back from Razor.

I'd just like to express my absolute disappointment in all of you for not getting this reference.
The Avengrynkhal Ascendant of Klaus Devestatorie

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The Church of Satan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1029
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:51 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:
Klaus Devestatorie wrote:There was a blacklist, but I defeated everyone on it. Needed to get my car back from Razor.

I'd just like to express my absolute disappointment in all of you for not getting this reference.

Never took time to play that game. :P
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Why the Whitelist Campaign is bad
Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever

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Neo Kervoskia
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Posts: 298
Founded: Jun 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Neo Kervoskia » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:58 pm

I'll be awfully triggered if I'm not on a list somewhere.
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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2547
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:14 pm

Neo Kervoskia wrote:I'll be awfully triggered if I'm not on a list somewhere.

List of NationStates nations in alphabetical order.
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Boda
Envoy
 
Posts: 219
Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Boda » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:42 pm

Vetelo wrote:
Boda wrote:I do.

Sure you do, buddy.

I don’t even think you were even brought up in this thread.

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Big Bad Badger
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 191
Founded: Apr 25, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Big Bad Badger » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:14 am

Neo Kervoskia wrote:I'll be awfully triggered if I'm not on a list somewhere.

You're #1 in our hearts!

Edit: literacy improvements. Thanks Dark!
Last edited by Big Bad Badger on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Darkesia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 786
Founded: Mar 01, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Darkesia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:34 am

*You're
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Syberis
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 495
Founded: Jan 21, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Syberis » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:53 am

Neo Kervoskia wrote:I'll be awfully triggered if I'm not on a list somewhere.


You're on my list, old man.
I've finally found what I was looking for
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Because I am a stranger who has found
An even stranger war

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Wymondham
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Apr 03, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Wymondham » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 am

Blacklisting is something that a lot of the NS community doesn't participate in. So when I talk to people, especially when working for NSToday, why GP doesn't accept certain people they are confused. As a sphere in NS GP appears to have an ability at time to bring out the worst in people and some of that stuff is truly immoral, disgusting and would make any normal person gag with revolt. Unfortunately, what happens Offsite doesn't tend to be actionable on site. So people like you DC can skip around this game, spreading your poison and your BS far and wide. I will give it to you my man, it takes some cojones to crawl back to Gameplay after a few years and scream how your the victim in the vain hope that some impressionable GPer will take pity on you and invite you into their region so you can start all over again. Is it really that hard for you to accept that what has happened to you is your fault and your fault alone. Not only that, but you and Block and all the others were given second chances ad nauseam. You messed up, now grow up and admit it. Coming back every once in a while with a new puppet protesting your innocence ain't gonna cut the mustard I'm afraid my good man.

Tldr: DC. Go away. And please, don't come back another day.

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Block II
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 04, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Block II » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:34 am

I for one, am blacklisted unjustly. I am not a doxxer. I am not a harasser. I am not dangerous. I am not a sexual harasser. I am not a blackmailer. I am not an abuser. I have done nothing worthy of being blacklisted. There’s nothing to prove otherwise, because I’ve done nothing. The cabal thag runs NSGP has blacklisted me, because I’m from a sphere of influence from an era of raiding pre 2016, that rivals their’s. They blacklist me because I’m antagonistic to their goals of manipulation and brainwashing. They blacklist me because I’m a political and military rival. They blacklist me because I have very vastly different political views as a libertarian compared to their extreme progressive and authoritarian liberalism. They blacklist me because I’m a thorn in their side. They hate me. They can’t stand me. And yet, I’m innocent. I’m being oppressed for unjustified reasons. Has anyone seen evidence that would make me worthy of being blacklisted? No, none of you have because it doesn’t exist because I haven’t done anything. This whitelist campaign is perfect for someone like me who is a victim of this oppressive discrimination by the people at the top of NSGP.

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Vetelo
Envoy
 
Posts: 224
Founded: Mar 28, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Vetelo » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:51 am

Boda wrote:
Vetelo wrote:Sure you do, buddy.

I don’t even think you were even brought up in this thread.

I wasn't brought up until I posted here. However, anyone who isn't totally oblivious would realise that I am one of the players you all are referring to when you say "blacklisted".

The term "blacklisted" is in itself a total farce created by the elites of NS to restrict people they simply don't like from playing the game. I've never understood why people can't just leave it up to individual communities to choose who they want to ban. If I went to basically any region's Discord right now using this alias, there would immediately be one of these NS elites hounding that region to ban me from all their platforms. Regions are effectively given no choice if they want to participate in inter-regional "politics". They have to ban those deemed "blacklisted" or face a complete disproportional response by the rest of the "gameplay" community. It is utterly toxic and unhealthy to participate in.

I am not one to sit here and do nothing while you gang of bullies try to derail any meaningful dialogue on how the community should go forward. It's actually pretty sad to see how much this place has gone downhill. Nobody is able to have a rational discussion without drama arising. I hope some good can come of DC's proposal, but I worry that the intervention of the elites controlling the narrative will prevent any of that. I really do have hope, but ignorance seems to be winning out more as of late..
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Aynia Moreaux
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 118
Founded: Nov 27, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Aynia Moreaux » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:17 pm

I'd like to know who you guys think this all powerful cabal is, because I can tell you if you're a decent person and have any drive to be involved, you can become active and influential in the greater community. Like people here are actually pretty accepting and it isn't hard to climb up the ladder if you put in the work. So I'm going to burst your bubble, there is no cabal. The 'cabal' as you speak of it seems to just be any active player who speaks up. And you aren't going to stop us from communicating and warning each other.

I'd ask again: Are you actually ok with harassers, doxxers and abusers having a place here? Because if you are, it says a lot.
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Imperium of Josh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Imperium of Josh » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:27 pm

Aynia Moreaux wrote:I'd like to know who you guys think this all powerful cabal is, because I can tell you if you're a decent person and have any drive to be involved, you can become active and influential in the greater community. Like people here are actually pretty accepting and it isn't hard to climb up the ladder if you put in the work. So I'm going to burst your bubble, there is no cabal. The 'cabal' as you speak of it seems to just be any active player who speaks up. And you aren't going to stop us from communicating and warning each other.

I'd ask again: Are you actually ok with harassers, doxxers and abusers having a place here? Because if you are, it says a lot.

Ah but don't you know Aynia, we're all controlled by a shadowy "them." None of us has free will and we're all at the mercy of T H E C A B A L :P

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2439
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:34 pm

Literally how has this thread gone on for eight pages? Do y'all have nothing better to do than engage with blacklisted players looking for attention?
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The Notorious Mad Jack
Envoy
 
Posts: 339
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:36 pm

Block II wrote:I for one, am blacklisted unjustly. I am not a doxxer. I am not a harasser. I am not dangerous. I am not a sexual harasser. I am not a blackmailer. I am not an abuser. I have done nothing worthy of being blacklisted. There’s nothing to prove otherwise, because I’ve done nothing. The cabal thag runs NSGP has blacklisted me, because I’m from a sphere of influence from an era of raiding pre 2016, that rivals their’s. They blacklist me because I’m antagonistic to their goals of manipulation and brainwashing. They blacklist me because I’m a political and military rival. They blacklist me because I have very vastly different political views as a libertarian compared to their extreme progressive and authoritarian liberalism. They blacklist me because I’m a thorn in their side. They hate me. They can’t stand me. And yet, I’m innocent. I’m being oppressed for unjustified reasons. Has anyone seen evidence that would make me worthy of being blacklisted? No, none of you have because it doesn’t exist because I haven’t done anything. This whitelist campaign is perfect for someone like me who is a victim of this oppressive discrimination by the people at the top of NSGP.

Why lie?
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Boda
Envoy
 
Posts: 219
Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Boda » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Vetelo wrote:
Boda wrote:I don’t even think you were even brought up in this thread.

I wasn't brought up until I posted here. However, anyone who isn't totally oblivious would realise that I am one of the players you all are referring to when you say "blacklisted".

The term "blacklisted" is in itself a total farce created by the elites of NS to restrict people they simply don't like from playing the game. I've never understood why people can't just leave it up to individual communities to choose who they want to ban. If I went to basically any region's Discord right now using this alias, there would immediately be one of these NS elites hounding that region to ban me from all their platforms. Regions are effectively given no choice if they want to participate in inter-regional "politics". They have to ban those deemed "blacklisted" or face a complete disproportional response by the rest of the "gameplay" community. It is utterly toxic and unhealthy to participate in.

I am not one to sit here and do nothing while you gang of bullies try to derail any meaningful dialogue on how the community should go forward. It's actually pretty sad to see how much this place has gone downhill. Nobody is able to have a rational discussion without drama arising. I hope some good can come of DC's proposal, but I worry that the intervention of the elites controlling the narrative will prevent any of that. I really do have hope, but ignorance seems to be winning out more as of late..

It’s not ignorance it’s protecting the community... Please Understand.

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Kandorith
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1066
Founded: Aug 26, 2009
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kandorith » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:02 pm

Imperium of Josh wrote:
Aynia Moreaux wrote:I'd like to know who you guys think this all powerful cabal is, because I can tell you if you're a decent person and have any drive to be involved, you can become active and influential in the greater community. Like people here are actually pretty accepting and it isn't hard to climb up the ladder if you put in the work. So I'm going to burst your bubble, there is no cabal. The 'cabal' as you speak of it seems to just be any active player who speaks up. And you aren't going to stop us from communicating and warning each other.

I'd ask again: Are you actually ok with harassers, doxxers and abusers having a place here? Because if you are, it says a lot.

Ah but don't you know Aynia, we're all controlled by a shadowy "them." None of us has free will and we're all at the mercy of T H E C A B A L :P



Ooooh spooky, wait... now I get it why I always feel watched when writing on Nationstates...
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The Notorious Mad Jack
Envoy
 
Posts: 339
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:17 pm

Kandorith wrote:
Imperium of Josh wrote:Ah but don't you know Aynia, we're all controlled by a shadowy "them." None of us has free will and we're all at the mercy of T H E C A B A L :P



Ooooh spooky, wait... now I get it why I always feel watched when writing on Nationstates...

Put some pants on ffs.
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Elegarth
Envoy
 
Posts: 258
Founded: Feb 08, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Elegarth » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:18 pm

Block II wrote:I for one, am blacklisted unjustly. I am not a doxxer. I am not a harasser. I am not dangerous. I am not a sexual harasser. I am not a blackmailer. I am not an abuser. I have done nothing worthy of being blacklisted. There’s nothing to prove otherwise, because I’ve done nothing. The cabal thag runs NSGP has blacklisted me, because I’m from a sphere of influence from an era of raiding pre 2016, that rivals their’s. They blacklist me because I’m antagonistic to their goals of manipulation and brainwashing. They blacklist me because I’m a political and military rival. They blacklist me because I have very vastly different political views as a libertarian compared to their extreme progressive and authoritarian liberalism. They blacklist me because I’m a thorn in their side. They hate me. They can’t stand me. And yet, I’m innocent. I’m being oppressed for unjustified reasons. Has anyone seen evidence that would make me worthy of being blacklisted? No, none of you have because it doesn’t exist because I haven’t done anything. This whitelist campaign is perfect for someone like me who is a victim of this oppressive discrimination by the people at the top of NSGP.


This is a joke, right? I mean, best joke ever and all! But this is a joke, right?
Elegarth, The Seeker of Power
Royal Duke of The West Pacific
Patio Emperor of The West Pacific
Former Dragon Delegate of The West Pacific

The Delegarth

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Block II
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 04, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Block II » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:12 pm

Dead serious. I’ve done nothing to violate the social contract, yet my opponents have blacklisted me without just cause. It’s deplorable.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
Envoy
 
Posts: 339
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:29 pm

Block II wrote:Dead serious. I’ve done nothing to violate the social contract, yet my opponents have blacklisted me without just cause. It’s deplorable.

Why lie?
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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