NATION

PASSWORD

The Official Embassy Thread of The Iron Confederacy

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

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Tupolite
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Jan 24, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tupolite » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:55 pm

Lyrical International Brigade wrote:
Tupolite wrote:Libertarian, ancap, distinction without a difference. Both are market-worshippers that desire to privatize and deregulate all economic activities so that the reckless and antisocial search for maximum profits can reduce everyone to a faceless drone. Both want to abolish the concept of organic authority in society by dismantling political hierarchy and make everything of moral or material value into a commodity at the expense of all aspects, tangible and intangible, of a nation's heritage and identity, such as cultural institutions and traditional demographics...


Holy crap, this is so close to being a rational thought it's physically painful. I helpfully marked where you went off the rails (you're quite welcome). Suffice to say even mass commoditization, abominable though it is, is yet still preferable to the things in your signature's "pro" section, which tend to be even more aggressive than mere unfettered capitalism in reducing people to faceless drones.

To those reading this in earnest, this is how the harmful ideology slithers into an otherwise critical mind: the problems of capitalism are undeniable! The proposed cure, however, is even worse than the disease, being in some aspects a primitivist reaction against it and in other aspects a loving embrace of the disease's most heinous crimes.

Yuck.


I've had this discussion with a communist before: there is nothing "primitivist" in fascism, for indeed the Doctrine of Fascism proclaims that the fascist state has no resemblance to any political-social-economic structure preceding the year 1789, and therefore does not represent an attempt to drive back the clock to before the French Revolution or the Enlightenment as some have suggested. Fascism is traditionalist, and fiercely traditionalist, this is true, but because the only valid notion of progress recognizes a nation's immutable and essential characteristics and seeks ways to build upon what has been established in generations and centuries past without eschewing it entirely. After all, far from denying the passage of time and changes in social and material conditions, fascism professes to learn the lessons of history, and adapt itself as a dynamic, living doctrine to the needs of the people in any given era, without losing its distinct ideological tenets. Yet as traditions are acquired and modified throughout history, so they may be used to keep track of all the important lessons to be retained. On the other hand, the leftist notion of "progress" is doomed because it can find no inspiration in the lessons of history which show the dictates of nationalism to be the supreme social cohesive force. As such, progressivism in practice defaults to obscene social experiments tending to the total subversion of national integrity and characteristics, both at the moral level and the demographic level. You communists are ultimately bad for the same reason as the capitalists: your ruthless materialism would make everyone into a faceless cipher and strip them of the fundamental aspects of their identity and personality. After all, the end goal of communism, in part, is the abolition of nations and states, yet the personality of a people, beginning to be expressed in the individual and proceeding diffusely throughout the teeming masses, is the state, and it is only the discipline enforced by a centralized and powerful state that can can consolidate the people who comprise it into a culturally homogeneous collective, the nation.
Last edited by Tupolite on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
Political Test Results
Pro: Fascism, Corporativism, National Syndicalism, Palingenetic Nationalism, Integral Nationalism, Military Power, Imperialism, Collectivism, In-Group ("volkisch") Socioeconomic Equality, Cultural Christianity, the concept of the Proletarian Nation
Anti: Classical Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Marxism-Leninism, Social Democracy, Libertarianism, Capitalism, Anarchism, Free Market, Pacifism, Corporate Consumer Culture, Political Egalitarianism, Feminism, LGBT, Internationalism, Globalism, Corporative Exclusivism, Individualism, Bourgeois Mentality
Ideological Inspirations: Giovanni Gentile, Georges Sorel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gabriele d'Annunzio, Hubert Lagardelle, George Fitzhugh, Giuseppe Mazzini

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4449
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:41 pm

Hispanyo wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:UM was previously namedropped as being a member of your 'enemies' list, presumably that is why he is here.

it's surprising that you guys are all here because of the enemy list.

What reason have we to care of your silly little enemies list?
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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Sundowers
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 52
Founded: Mar 09, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Sundowers » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:28 pm

Tupolite wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:UM was previously namedropped as being a member of your 'enemies' list, presumably that is why he is here.


The Iron Confederacy is also opposed to social democracy for its internationalism and political egalitarianism, as well as for pretty much everything wrong with liberal democracy in general. Plus the substantial clerical-fascist constituency of TIC considers his progressivist and pro-LGBT interpretation of Roman Catholicism to be abominable. Not to mention that he was at one time the WA Minister of Yuno during her time as Delegate of The East Pacific. Yuno has participated in anti-fascist raids and had some part to play in the early endorsement of the CDS farce. In addition, RTL has also occasionally planned anti-fascist operations under UM's leadership.


Wow, you guys hate members of the LGBTQ community to and even dared to admit it! I may hate this region even more than I hate Taco Bell's Breakfast.

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Tupolite
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Jan 24, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tupolite » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:46 pm

Sundowers wrote:
Tupolite wrote:
The Iron Confederacy is also opposed to social democracy for its internationalism and political egalitarianism, as well as for pretty much everything wrong with liberal democracy in general. Plus the substantial clerical-fascist constituency of TIC considers his progressivist and pro-LGBT interpretation of Roman Catholicism to be abominable. Not to mention that he was at one time the WA Minister of Yuno during her time as Delegate of The East Pacific. Yuno has participated in anti-fascist raids and had some part to play in the early endorsement of the CDS farce. In addition, RTL has also occasionally planned anti-fascist operations under UM's leadership.


Wow, you guys hate members of the LGBTQ community to and even dared to admit it! I may hate this region even more than I hate Taco Bell's Breakfast.


Tupolite wrote:As such, progressivism in practice defaults to obscene social experiments tending to the total subversion of national integrity and characteristics, both at the moral level and the demographic level.
Political Test Results
Pro: Fascism, Corporativism, National Syndicalism, Palingenetic Nationalism, Integral Nationalism, Military Power, Imperialism, Collectivism, In-Group ("volkisch") Socioeconomic Equality, Cultural Christianity, the concept of the Proletarian Nation
Anti: Classical Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Marxism-Leninism, Social Democracy, Libertarianism, Capitalism, Anarchism, Free Market, Pacifism, Corporate Consumer Culture, Political Egalitarianism, Feminism, LGBT, Internationalism, Globalism, Corporative Exclusivism, Individualism, Bourgeois Mentality
Ideological Inspirations: Giovanni Gentile, Georges Sorel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gabriele d'Annunzio, Hubert Lagardelle, George Fitzhugh, Giuseppe Mazzini

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Lyrical International Brigade
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Mar 31, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lyrical International Brigade » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:43 am

Tupolite wrote:<snip>


I'm not looking to threadjack this into General, so I'll just leave two points.

1: I'm not a communist, but it doesn't take a Marxist-Leninist to understand that the essentialism of mind you're relying on is laughably false.

2: Submerging individual identity and personality into the collective consciousness of a nation or state is little different from submerging them into that of a for-profit corporation. Both entities claim truth, power, and preeminence at the expense of actual people - the only difference is in their stated goals and low-level tactics. It's not materialism that makes people drones, it's the false gods of Nation, Leader, Profit, and Shareholder Value. In the case of Nation, Schopenhauer has it best, I think:
“The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”


Good day.
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Lieutenant, ⟨ Красный Флот ⟩ {The Red Fleet}

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Tupolite
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Jan 24, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tupolite » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Lyrical International Brigade wrote:
Tupolite wrote:<snip>


I'm not looking to threadjack this into General, so I'll just leave two points.

1: I'm not a communist, but it doesn't take a Marxist-Leninist to understand that the essentialism of mind you're relying on is laughably false.

2: Submerging individual identity and personality into the collective consciousness of a nation or state is little different from submerging them into that of a for-profit corporation. Both entities claim truth, power, and preeminence at the expense of actual people - the only difference is in their stated goals and low-level tactics. It's not materialism that makes people drones, it's the false gods of Nation, Leader, Profit, and Shareholder Value. In the case of Nation, Schopenhauer has it best, I think:
“The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”


Good day.


The essentialism of mind I refer to is but an ultranationalist modification of the Hegelian theory of the state.

"The state is the actuality of the ethical Idea. It is ethical mind qua the substantial will manifest and revealed to itself, knowing and thinking itself, accomplishing what it knows and in so far as it knows it. The state exists immediately in custom, mediately in individual self-consciousness, knowledge, and activity, while self-consciousness in virtue of its sentiment towards the state, finds in the state, as its essence and the end-product of its activity, its substantive freedom."
-Hegel

You can't renounce Hegel entirely yourself since your historical materialism is rationalized through an application of the Hegelian dialectic.

I am amazed that you would denounce both fascism and capitalism for being systems of hierarchy. There is no legitimate organic hierarchy in capitalism; therefore, authority defaults to irresponsible factions whose only priority is to use their substantial control of a nation's capital to further their venal financial interests. That cannot be equated to the pure and heroic authority of a leader whose attributes of charisma and keen socio-political vision cause the beleagured masses of the white working classes to throw themselves at his feet.
Political Test Results
Pro: Fascism, Corporativism, National Syndicalism, Palingenetic Nationalism, Integral Nationalism, Military Power, Imperialism, Collectivism, In-Group ("volkisch") Socioeconomic Equality, Cultural Christianity, the concept of the Proletarian Nation
Anti: Classical Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Marxism-Leninism, Social Democracy, Libertarianism, Capitalism, Anarchism, Free Market, Pacifism, Corporate Consumer Culture, Political Egalitarianism, Feminism, LGBT, Internationalism, Globalism, Corporative Exclusivism, Individualism, Bourgeois Mentality
Ideological Inspirations: Giovanni Gentile, Georges Sorel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gabriele d'Annunzio, Hubert Lagardelle, George Fitzhugh, Giuseppe Mazzini

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Jar Wattinree
Diplomat
 
Posts: 946
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:16 pm

All righty, NSG is two subforums down from National and Regional Gameplay.
Last edited by Jar Wattinree on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 3525
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:32 pm

Tupolite wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm in the same boat, and I've never done anything noteworthy on this site. I guess we are a bit too outspoken for their liking. Either way, it will take more than pinging us into a dispatch to silence us.


Does it or does it not proclaim you as a liberal capitalist anti-fascist in your signature? Is it not true that when we first encountered you were a member of the Federation of Conservative Nations, which has historically been hostile to fascist and quasi-fascist ("Decreeist") regions in the embrace of political and economic liberalism? Read the dispatch. Being an enemy of the state as an individual nation is effectively marking you and your puppets "ban-on-sight" in TIC. Being an enemy of the state as a region means that it represents a hostile or potentially hostile military power.

Decreeist regions are just neo-Nazis with a different name, so being hostile to them is actually the ethical thing to do. :)
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Nazism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Socialism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism, mass migration
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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New Jakobly
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 30, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Jakobly » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:21 pm

Tupolite wrote:
Gagium wrote:Known anarcho-capitalist, lol.

Should also point out that the FCN does not endorse nor has utilized child spies ever, and none of Jakobly’s efforts at garnering himself attention by sending obvious puppets into regions were endorsed nor called for by the FCN.


Libertarian, ancap, distinction without a difference. Both are market-worshippers that desire to privatize and deregulate all economic activities so that the reckless and antisocial search for maximum profits can reduce everyone to a faceless drone. Both want to abolish the concept of organic authority in society by dismantling political hierarchy and make everything of moral or material value into a commodity at the expense of all aspects, tangible and intangible, of a nation's heritage and identity, such as cultural institutions and traditional demographics. What I'm getting at here is that the semantics are irrelevant and when you get down to it what libertarians like LiberNovusAmericae truly believe is that the materialistic commercialization of the world is an absolute moral good.

And why would I believe that you didn't send Jakobly when the competence exhibited in his efforts is so often reflected in everything the FCN does, right down to the Internet memes?

Nice you were talking bout me

Wha brought this up? I am interested

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New French Etat
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 17, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby New French Etat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:28 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Tupolite wrote:
Does it or does it not proclaim you as a liberal capitalist anti-fascist in your signature? Is it not true that when we first encountered you were a member of the Federation of Conservative Nations, which has historically been hostile to fascist and quasi-fascist ("Decreeist") regions in the embrace of political and economic liberalism? Read the dispatch. Being an enemy of the state as an individual nation is effectively marking you and your puppets "ban-on-sight" in TIC. Being an enemy of the state as a region means that it represents a hostile or potentially hostile military power.

Decreeist regions are just neo-Nazis with a different name, so being hostile to them is actually the ethical thing to do. :)

Calling everyone who supports racist ideas 'a nazi' is both ambiguous and vague, it only works if you want to slander your political enemies, just how the left has been doing since 1945. It's the same phenomena of calling politicians 'fascists' just because they expose radical or "offensive" stances.

Decreeism is not Neo-Nazism, Neo-Nazism actually has different requirements. There are even democratic racists who just want racial laws but not a National Socialist government type of system. Indeed, Nazism is racist, but not all racism is nazi. Even in its way of understanding the racial struggle, Decreeism and Nazism are pretty different. Decreeism supports etnopluralism, which states that all races should be left separately in their own homelands and from there all races could achieve "coexistence". Nazism defended that the volk must conquer other peoples' lands for the survival and vital expansion of the volk. Decreeism denies Imperialism as it destroyes 'cultural diversity'. And this is not only opposed to Nazism, but to Fascism itself, as it denies the hierarchy that trascends the national community to the international life through the myth of National Greatness over the other nations and affirms a cultural egalitarianism. In short, etnopluralism is anarchistic and utopian. Just as the nation has a hierarchy, that is given by the State, the international life has an hierarchy as well, given by the expansion and conquest of the superior cultures over the inferior cultures.

In the Fascist lens, cultures are not equal and superior cultures have the moral right to subdue inferior cultures. In the Decreeist lens, all cultures deserve a place in the world. At this point, The Iron Confederacy is closer to Nazism than Farkasfalka itself. But since we are not basing our ideology in materialist notions such as race, we are not Nazis.
Last edited by New French Etat on Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud member of The Iron Confederacy, the top standard bearer of NationStates's Fascism!

Clerical Fascist and Catholic Traditionalist.

Take your dagger and your blackshirt, feel the scorn that you have in your heart against the current order of decay, and join the National Revolution!

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New French Etat
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 17, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby New French Etat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:42 am

Due to personal reasons, Tupolite will enter in a prolonged period of absence. For this reason, His Excellency Emperador Hispanyo has appointed me as Prime Secretary for the second time in order to continue with the activities of the government. The new administration is already doing changes in the military and applying several initiatives directed to the betterment of our Fascist conglomerate.
Last edited by New French Etat on Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud member of The Iron Confederacy, the top standard bearer of NationStates's Fascism!

Clerical Fascist and Catholic Traditionalist.

Take your dagger and your blackshirt, feel the scorn that you have in your heart against the current order of decay, and join the National Revolution!

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The Niben
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Posts: 13
Founded: Apr 26, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Niben » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:50 am

New French Etat wrote:But since we are not basing our ideology in materialist notions such as race, we are not Nazis.

Here's my (rather direct) question: Does the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbor people with anti-Semitic views, Holocaust deniers, or white/Germanic supremacists?

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New French Etat
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Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 17, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby New French Etat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:26 am

The Niben wrote:
New French Etat wrote:But since we are not basing our ideology in materialist notions such as race, we are not Nazis.

Here's my (rather direct) question: Does the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbor people with anti-Semitic views, Holocaust deniers, or white/Germanic supremacists?

The Iron Confederacy does not go along with racial supremacism or hatred against an specific group of people under racial/ethnic conditions. There is an official ideological pattern established by the State that considers racism as heretical for our worldview as it has a materialist outlook on life and goes against the spiritual foundations of Fascism. National Socialists are welcomed if they do not privilege their ideology above that of the State and remain civil. To quote one of the State Defense Commission's Edicts that leave this clear:

"Edict 21

Taking the perpetual interest embodied in the Fascist aims of the Social Integralist State, to maintain ideological harmony, regional unity and the need to pursue a common goal among all, and that this end is evidenced in the collective obedience to the precepts of our Fascist Revolution, the State dismisses ideological positions of a racialist nature, for being deemed as intrinsically materialistic, and as such, contrary to the spiritual character of Fascism. Anti-jewish comments are discouraged, and anti-jewish sentiment shall be kept at minimum.

The organs of State Security and Public Enlightenment are in all their duty and right, to penalize such ideological behavior according to the seriousness of the offense."
Proud member of The Iron Confederacy, the top standard bearer of NationStates's Fascism!

Clerical Fascist and Catholic Traditionalist.

Take your dagger and your blackshirt, feel the scorn that you have in your heart against the current order of decay, and join the National Revolution!

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LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 3525
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:57 am

New French Etat wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Decreeist regions are just neo-Nazis with a different name, so being hostile to them is actually the ethical thing to do. :)

Calling everyone who supports racist ideas 'a nazi' is both ambiguous and vague, it only works if you want to slander your political enemies, just how the left has been doing since 1945. It's the same phenomena of calling politicians 'fascists' just because they expose radical or "offensive" stances.

Decreeism is not Neo-Nazism, Neo-Nazism actually has different requirements. There are even democratic racists who just want racial laws but not a National Socialist government type of system. Indeed, Nazism is racist, but not all racism is nazi. Even in its way of understanding the racial struggle, Decreeism and Nazism are pretty different. Decreeism supports etnopluralism, which states that all races should be left separately in their own homelands and from there all races could achieve "coexistence". Nazism defended that the volk must conquer other peoples' lands for the survival and vital expansion of the volk. Decreeism denies Imperialism as it destroyes 'cultural diversity'. And this is not only opposed to Nazism, but to Fascism itself, as it denies the hierarchy that trascends the national community to the international life through the myth of National Greatness over the other nations and affirms a cultural egalitarianism. In short, etnopluralism is anarchistic and utopian. Just as the nation has a hierarchy, that is given by the State, the international life has an hierarchy as well, given by the expansion and conquest of the superior cultures over the inferior cultures.

In the Fascist lens, cultures are not equal and superior cultures have the moral right to subdue inferior cultures. In the Decreeist lens, all cultures deserve a place in the world. At this point, The Iron Confederacy is closer to Nazism than Farkasfalka itself. But since we are not basing our ideology in materialist notions such as race, we are not Nazis.

Farkasfalka might have made changes to the doctrine, but their ideology is very similar to the Nazis. They have members ranting about "Jewish financial capital," and engaging in Holocaust denial. They do believe in the abolition of democracy, so they are not just racist democrats. There are neo-Nazis in the real world who will promote ethnopluralism as an excuse for a white ethnostate, so this is not enough to get them off the hook. They might just drop that idea when they get the ethnostate that they want anyway.
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Nazism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Socialism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism, mass migration
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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The Niben
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Apr 26, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Niben » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:20 am

New French Etat wrote:
The Niben wrote:Here's my (rather direct) question: Does the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbor people with anti-Semitic views, Holocaust deniers, or white/Germanic supremacists?

The Iron Confederacy does not go along with racial supremacism or hatred against an specific group of people under racial/ethnic conditions. There is an official ideological pattern established by the State that considers racism as heretical for our worldview as it has a materialist outlook on life and goes against the spiritual foundations of Fascism. National Socialists are welcomed if they do not privilege their ideology above that of the State and remain civil. To quote one of the State Defense Commission's Edicts that leave this clear:

"Edict 21

Taking the perpetual interest embodied in the Fascist aims of the Social Integralist State, to maintain ideological harmony, regional unity and the need to pursue a common goal among all, and that this end is evidenced in the collective obedience to the precepts of our Fascist Revolution, the State dismisses ideological positions of a racialist nature, for being deemed as intrinsically materialistic, and as such, contrary to the spiritual character of Fascism. Anti-jewish comments are discouraged, and anti-jewish sentiment shall be kept at minimum.

The organs of State Security and Public Enlightenment are in all their duty and right, to penalize such ideological behavior according to the seriousness of the offense."

This does not answer my question. I am not interested in what the Iron Confederacy does and doesn't go along with. I want to know if the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbors antisemites, white supremacists, et al.

National Socialists are welcomed if they do not privilege their ideology above that of the State and remain civil.

National Socialists (i.e. Nazis) are welcomed, so long as they are civil. To be clear: they are entitled to their antisemitic/genocidal views so long as they are civil and follow the rules.
Anti-jewish comments are discouraged, and anti-jewish sentiment shall be kept at minimum.

This is essentially declaring that antisemitism is permitted so long as it is low key. That isn't enough.

Your statement doesn't answer my question. What I have instead gathered is that antisemitism and Nazism is permitted in the Iron Confederacy so long as it is not overt. So I will repeat my question. Does the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbor people with anti-Semitic views, Holocaust deniers, or white/Germanic supremacists?

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New French Etat
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 17, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby New French Etat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:25 pm

The Niben wrote:
New French Etat wrote:The Iron Confederacy does not go along with racial supremacism or hatred against an specific group of people under racial/ethnic conditions. There is an official ideological pattern established by the State that considers racism as heretical for our worldview as it has a materialist outlook on life and goes against the spiritual foundations of Fascism. National Socialists are welcomed if they do not privilege their ideology above that of the State and remain civil. To quote one of the State Defense Commission's Edicts that leave this clear:

"Edict 21

Taking the perpetual interest embodied in the Fascist aims of the Social Integralist State, to maintain ideological harmony, regional unity and the need to pursue a common goal among all, and that this end is evidenced in the collective obedience to the precepts of our Fascist Revolution, the State dismisses ideological positions of a racialist nature, for being deemed as intrinsically materialistic, and as such, contrary to the spiritual character of Fascism. Anti-jewish comments are discouraged, and anti-jewish sentiment shall be kept at minimum.

The organs of State Security and Public Enlightenment are in all their duty and right, to penalize such ideological behavior according to the seriousness of the offense."

This does not answer my question. I am not interested in what the Iron Confederacy does and doesn't go along with. I want to know if the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbors antisemites, white supremacists, et al.

National Socialists are welcomed if they do not privilege their ideology above that of the State and remain civil.

National Socialists (i.e. Nazis) are welcomed, so long as they are civil. To be clear: they are entitled to their antisemitic/genocidal views so long as they are civil and follow the rules.
Anti-jewish comments are discouraged, and anti-jewish sentiment shall be kept at minimum.

This is essentially declaring that antisemitism is permitted so long as it is low key. That isn't enough.

Your statement doesn't answer my question. What I have instead gathered is that antisemitism and Nazism is permitted in the Iron Confederacy so long as it is not overt. So I will repeat my question. Does the Iron Confederacy knowingly harbor people with anti-Semitic views, Holocaust deniers, or white/Germanic supremacists?

I think that I have answered correctly to your question, however I can elaborate a little better with examples, which will be familiar to you. I have noticed that you're creating a region based on The Elder Scrolls, so I realize that you talk about the Imperial City of Cyrodiil, that If I remember correctly, vetoed the cult of Talos. We could extrapolate this to a RL environment and say that the imperials are anti-semites, rejecting those who worship Talos as a God. However, in TES, NS and real life you can't generalize that for a few imperials or fascists that are anti-semites, they are all like that.

Answering to your question, TIC doesn't knowingly harbor persons with anti-semite, supremacist or holocaust-denier views, when some of them get discovered, we motivate them to not promote their views in the RMB and remain in line with the State ideology as the Iron Confederacy is not Nazi. It is invalid to accuse TIC of endorsing nazism because it doesn't persecute those Nazis that decide to serve renouncing to the freedom of their ideals in the name of the collective benefit. Also, while racial supremacism and racism are opposed to the idealism and spiritualism of Fascism, the holocaust denial and anti-semitism aren't decisive stances that contradict our worldview per se.
Proud member of The Iron Confederacy, the top standard bearer of NationStates's Fascism!

Clerical Fascist and Catholic Traditionalist.

Take your dagger and your blackshirt, feel the scorn that you have in your heart against the current order of decay, and join the National Revolution!

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4801
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:50 pm

New French Etat wrote:It is invalid to accuse TIC of endorsing nazism because it doesn't persecute those Nazis that decide to serve renouncing to the freedom of their ideals in the name of the collective benefit.


So, it's wrong to accuse you of endorsing Nazis just because you're not "persecuting" the Nazis in your region? Interesting spin.
You know what's really wrong, though? Tolerating Nazis for any reason.

New French Etat wrote:holocaust denial and anti-semitism aren't decisive stances that contradict our worldview per se.

Lovely.
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New French Etat
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Postby New French Etat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:19 pm

RiderSyl wrote:
New French Etat wrote:It is invalid to accuse TIC of endorsing nazism because it doesn't persecute those Nazis that decide to serve renouncing to the freedom of their ideals in the name of the collective benefit.


So, it's wrong to accuse you of endorsing Nazis just because you're not "persecuting" the Nazis in your region? Interesting spin.
You know what's really wrong, though? Tolerating Nazis for any reason.

New French Etat wrote:holocaust denial and anti-semitism aren't decisive stances that contradict our worldview per se.

Lovely.

We don't need to comply with the moral judgement on Nazism of anyone supporting the degenerate ideologies/philosophies of Marxism or Liberalism. The current decadence of the world and the anti-national, immoral ideas exposed by the marxists and the liberals, as well as their application in the world is far worse than any atrocity committed by the nazis. And I say this without minimizing any crime committed by Nazism and recognizing that Nazism perverted the ideals of Fascism and stained them, but nothing indicates that we should denounce Nazism and its atrocities before denouncing and attacking our main enemies first. In any case, we give the opportunity to those bastardized fascists (be they nazis, decreeists or any other type) to set their minds straight under the greater guidance of The Iron Confederacy and abandon their heretical ways.
Last edited by New French Etat on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:17 pm

New French Etat wrote:The current decadence of the world and the anti-national, immoral ideas exposed by the marxists and the liberals, as well as their application in the world is far worse than any atrocity committed by the nazis.

:lol2: :roll:

Edit: It is an idiotic belief to think that modern "decadence" is worse than the slaughter of 12 million people in death camps.

Also, Contradiction here.
New French Etat wrote:Decreeism denies Imperialism as it destroyes 'cultural diversity'. And this is not only opposed to Nazism, but to Fascism itself, as it denies the hierarchy that trascends the national community to the international life through the myth of National Greatness over the other nations and affirms a cultural egalitarianism.

New French Etat wrote: In any case, we give the opportunity to those bastardized fascists (be they nazis, decreeists or any other type) to set their minds straight under the greater guidance of The Iron Confederacy and abandon their heretical ways.


I thought Decreeists were not fascists in your eyes, and now they are. Way to stay consistent.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Of crazed
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Postby Of crazed » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:41 pm

love the classic "its offensive to call me a nazi, also I will never stop defending nazism"

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New French Etat
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Postby New French Etat » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:34 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
New French Etat wrote:The current decadence of the world and the anti-national, immoral ideas exposed by the marxists and the liberals, as well as their application in the world is far worse than any atrocity committed by the nazis.

:lol2: :roll:

Edit: It is an idiotic belief to think that modern "decadence" is worse than the slaughter of 12 million people in death camps.

Also, Contradiction here.
New French Etat wrote:Decreeism denies Imperialism as it destroyes 'cultural diversity'. And this is not only opposed to Nazism, but to Fascism itself, as it denies the hierarchy that trascends the national community to the international life through the myth of National Greatness over the other nations and affirms a cultural egalitarianism.

New French Etat wrote: In any case, we give the opportunity to those bastardized fascists (be they nazis, decreeists or any other type) to set their minds straight under the greater guidance of The Iron Confederacy and abandon their heretical ways.


I thought Decreeists were not fascists in your eyes, and now they are. Way to stay consistent.

A bastardized fascist is not a fascist, the very reason of this resides in the word 'bastardized'. It is easy to understand how words work, you know, an added word can change the meaning of any phrase and the meaning of another word. Calling decreeists and nazis 'bastardized fascists' is a way of pointing out their fascist influences without ignoring that they have distanced themselves enough to be considered separate from our positions and worldview. This is the same reason why you can't include national socialism and marxist socialism in the same bag just because both definitions display the word 'socialism'. This kind of reasoning is very typical of you libertarians/ancaps.

And nazism could have killed the bodies of many, but the current decadence is killing the souls of many more, and that's definitely worse. It's logical that your materialist thinking doesn't get it, capitalists are made that way.
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Kaystein
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Postby Kaystein » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:44 pm

This region made me realize; they're like the mormons of fascists. That is all.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:20 pm

New French Etat wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote: :lol2: :roll:

Edit: It is an idiotic belief to think that modern "decadence" is worse than the slaughter of 12 million people in death camps.

Also, Contradiction here.



I thought Decreeists were not fascists in your eyes, and now they are. Way to stay consistent.

A bastardized fascist is not a fascist, the very reason of this resides in the word 'bastardized'. It is easy to understand how words work, you know, an added word can change the meaning of any phrase and the meaning of another word. Calling decreeists and nazis 'bastardized fascists' is a way of pointing out their fascist influences without ignoring that they have distanced themselves enough to be considered separate from our positions and worldview. This is the same reason why you can't include national socialism and marxist socialism in the same bag just because both definitions display the word 'socialism'. This kind of reasoning is very typical of you libertarians/ancaps.

And nazism could have killed the bodies of many, but the current decadence is killing the souls of many more, and that's definitely worse. It's logical that your materialist thinking doesn't get it, capitalists are made that way.

1. Bastardized does not mean "not", it means "of a lower quality." You viewing them of a lower quality does not mean they are not fascist.
2. I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. That is only one type of libertarianism. If you are going to take the time to loath us, at least take the time to get a basic understanding of us.
3. I probably don't see the dead souls you speak of, because you have biases I don't have.
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

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Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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New French Etat
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Postby New French Etat » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:01 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
New French Etat wrote:A bastardized fascist is not a fascist, the very reason of this resides in the word 'bastardized'. It is easy to understand how words work, you know, an added word can change the meaning of any phrase and the meaning of another word. Calling decreeists and nazis 'bastardized fascists' is a way of pointing out their fascist influences without ignoring that they have distanced themselves enough to be considered separate from our positions and worldview. This is the same reason why you can't include national socialism and marxist socialism in the same bag just because both definitions display the word 'socialism'. This kind of reasoning is very typical of you libertarians/ancaps.

And nazism could have killed the bodies of many, but the current decadence is killing the souls of many more, and that's definitely worse. It's logical that your materialist thinking doesn't get it, capitalists are made that way.

1. Bastardized does not mean "not", it means "of a lower quality." You viewing them of a lower quality does not mean they are not fascist.
2. I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. That is only one type of libertarianism. If you are going to take the time to loath us, at least take the time to get a basic understanding of us.
3. I probably don't see the dead souls you speak of, because you have biases I don't have.

Bastardized is more close to indicate that something has been adultered, that said object we are referring to, has lost its essence due to the involvement of foreign substances. Indeed, as I left clear, Decreeism and Nazism do have their fascist influences, but they have lost the substance that could make both ideologies fascist.

Also,
Tupolite wrote:Libertarian, ancap, distinction without a difference. Both are market-worshippers that desire to privatize and deregulate all economic activities so that the reckless and antisocial search for maximum profits can reduce everyone to a faceless drone. Both want to abolish the concept of organic authority in society by dismantling political hierarchy and make everything of moral or material value into a commodity at the expense of all aspects, tangible and intangible, of a nation's heritage and identity, such as cultural institutions and traditional demographics. What I'm getting at here is that the semantics are irrelevant and when you get down to it what libertarians like LiberNovusAmericae truly believe is that the materialistic commercialization of the world is an absolute moral good.


To be honest, it is an unnecessary curiosity to see the differences between having no State at all, and having an extremely small and limited State. Both political realities are irreverent to the Nation and its spiritual destiny.
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Take your dagger and your blackshirt, feel the scorn that you have in your heart against the current order of decay, and join the National Revolution!

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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:03 am

New French Etat wrote:Bastardized is more close to indicate that something has been adultered, that said object we are referring to, has lost its essence due to the involvement of foreign substances. Indeed, as I left clear, Decreeism and Nazism do have their fascist influences, but they have lost the substance that could make both ideologies fascist.

Speaking of adultered, your stint of combining Catholicism with fascism remains as abhorrent as ever. Catholicism is not a good counterpart to an ideology that frequently slips into the realms of adopting rhetoric completely at odds with the religion itself and the message it conveys. If Tupolite was true to his telegram to me on the topic, he did manage to succeed in annoying me by trying to associate the two.

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