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The Roman Empire

Talk about nation management, regional politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Roman Office of Information
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Mar 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

The Roman Empire

Postby Roman Office of Information » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:25 pm

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The Roman Empire


Regional Forum | Region Page | Enlistment Application | Diplomatic Application | Regional discord



Tribuni Imperium:
Emperor: Plagentine
High Praefect: Festavo the Enigma
Praefect of Intelligence: Noblus Maximus



The Roman Empire is a raider region dedicated to fighting defenders, natives, and other enemies and traitors of the raider cause. We greatly value the concepts of camaraderie and community, and commit ourselves to spreading the ideas of raiding throughout the game. This empire has been reforged from a previously broken community, and prepares itself to seize greater victories and triumphs in the future. Long live the Roman Empire, long live the Emperor!
Last edited by Roman Office of Information on Sun May 07, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cormactopia Prime
Diplomat
 
Posts: 784
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Libertarian Police State

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:05 pm

Roman Office of Information wrote:The Roman Empire is a raider region dedicated to fighting defenders, natives, and other enemies and traitors of the raider cause.

Gest's influence is already apparent in the very first post.

Why are you harboring the person responsible for the destruction of two raider regions due to rule-breaking that occurred under his watch?
Cormac Skollvaldr (AKA The Oncoming Storm)

Kylia Quilor wrote:Don't try to go head to head with Cormac. Even if you can actually win at the argument, you don't beat him. Cormac is like one of those bizarre creatures of myth and legend that cannot be killed, no matter what you try. He can only be appeased and placated. :P

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Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ikania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:24 pm

And furthermore, this reeks of purism. I'd really like to participate in the region and its strong cultural background if the entire raison d'être wasn't to exterminate defenders.
A Lazarene.
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Sygian wrote:Ike you are being a literal retard
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do

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Plagentine
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Apr 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Plagentine » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:50 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Roman Office of Information wrote:The Roman Empire is a raider region dedicated to fighting defenders, natives, and other enemies and traitors of the raider cause.

Gest's influence is already apparent in the very first post.

Why are you harboring the person responsible for the destruction of two raider regions due to rule-breaking that occurred under his watch?

The focus of the region remains the same as in Firehelm, not sure what you're talking about. Also Gest is not a member of TRE, he's just chilling with us on the discord. Regardless of that, i do not care to go into an argument of TBR and DEN and who is responsible for what, mostly because that would be threadjacking.

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Thorn1000
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Apr 02, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Thorn1000 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:04 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Roman Office of Information wrote:The Roman Empire is a raider region dedicated to fighting defenders, natives, and other enemies and traitors of the raider cause.

Gest's influence is already apparent in the very first post.

Why are you harboring the person responsible for the destruction of two raider regions due to rule-breaking that occurred under his watch?


There seems to be no problem when he was in firehelm and he is in TI right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cormac I not even know what side you align with right now but I'm sure it will change in a week so if you do not like us know I know it will change very quickly

Ikania wrote:And furthermore, this reeks of purism. I'd really like to participate in the region and its strong cultural background if the entire raison d'être wasn't to exterminate defenders.


You have switched sides at least 4 times yourself. I consider firmly knowing where your alliences lay being infinitely better than burnt as wishy-washy as you.
All opinions that I express are solely mine. I do not speak for anyone but me.

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Nakari
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Feb 16, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakari » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:10 pm

Thorn1000 wrote:There seems to be no problem when he was in firehelm and he is in TI right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

People absolutely had a problem with that, there were just bigger problems with TI :P
Warden-Constable Nakari of The Grey Wardens, Officer in the South Pacific Special Forces
Rai wrote:naka doesn't love anyone, she just steals hearts for the wardens

The above post represents nobody's views or opinions, not even mine.

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Sygmund
Secretary
 
Posts: 40
Founded: Mar 05, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sygmund » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:43 pm

Ikania wrote:And furthermore, this reeks of purism. I'd really like to participate in the region and its strong cultural background if the entire raison d'être wasn't to exterminate defenders.

Oh, of course, you would say that being in a region who will go to any extent to exterminate raiders.
Nakari wrote:People absolutely had a problem with that, there were just bigger problems with TI :P

I'll be quite frank with you and say that nobody but defenders that like to get in everyone's business really cared or had a problem with that. :P
Sygmund Vytherov

Also known as Sygian, Sygarette, and the Sygmeister.
You're welcome!

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Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ikania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Thorn1000 wrote:You have switched sides at least 4 times yourself. I consider firmly knowing where your alliences lay being infinitely better than burnt as wishy-washy as you.

Your point being... ?
Sygmund wrote:Oh, of course, you would say that being in a region who will go to any extent to exterminate raiders.

The Roman Empire, if you haven't noticed, has separate applications for military and citizenship. Participating in a Roman-themed UCR would be pretty cool. No one gives two shits about Dragon Age. And that's completely beside the point, we're happy to have raiders in our own Discord, because it's fun, and we get along. The purist stench emanating from TRE seems to fly in the face of a simple rule: be cool.
I'll be quite frank with you and say that nobody but defenders that like to get in everyone's business really cared or had a problem with that. :P

I think people with common sense tend to have a problem with that, given what Cormac said, and what I've seen come out of Gest. Does he text his mother with that keyboard?
A Lazarene.
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Sygian wrote:Ike you are being a literal retard
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do

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Sygmund
Secretary
 
Posts: 40
Founded: Mar 05, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sygmund » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:43 pm

Ikania wrote:The Roman Empire, if you haven't noticed, has separate applications for military and citizenship. Participating in a Roman-themed UCR would be pretty cool. No one gives two shits about Dragon Age. And that's completely beside the point, we're happy to have raiders in our own Discord, because it's fun, and we get along. The purist stench emanating from TRE seems to fly in the face of a simple rule: be cool.

If you haven't noticed, I wasn't talking at all about their applications. I was addressing your ridiculous point of "this reeks of purism... the region and its strong cultural background [is] to exterminate defenders." It doesn't matter that you allow raiders into your discord (do you though?), it's still an idea that the Grey Wardens have literally built themselves on. Clearly you can't handle a little propaganda.
Ikania wrote:be cool.

It's not cool to denounce something that you turn around and practice. Hypocrisy isn't cool.
Sygmund Vytherov

Also known as Sygian, Sygarette, and the Sygmeister.
You're welcome!

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Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ikania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:54 pm

Sygmund wrote:If you haven't noticed, I wasn't talking at all about their applications. I was addressing your ridiculous point of "this reeks of purism... the region and its strong cultural background [is] to exterminate defenders." It doesn't matter that you allow raiders into your discord (do you though?), it's still an idea that the Grey Wardens have literally built themselves on. Clearly you can't handle a little propaganda.

I don't like the kind of propaganda that twists people's minds and turns them against any and all defenders and 'moderates' like this rotten ideology does so I'm sure as hell wary of any sign of purism. I see this region as more than just raiders, it seems like a good UCR culture in the making, unlike the Wardens which is a defender organization and nothing more. So try considering that for a moment before you accuse me of hypocrisy from atop your high horse.
Last edited by Ikania on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A Lazarene.
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Sygian wrote:Ike you are being a literal retard
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do

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Witchcraft and Sorcery
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Feb 01, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Witchcraft and Sorcery » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:55 pm

Ooooo a new raider org. Spicy. I look forward to sniping your raids very soon :)

I'll be honest. Putting myself in a raider's shoes I perfectly understand the nature of "fighting defenders." That's what raiders do. It should be a given. Raiders and defenders have been fighting each other as long as this game has existed and I don't necessarily see the purism in a raider organization coming out and saying that. That being said, Ike is absolutely right. The line is crossed when a glimmer of hope is squashed by a proverbial mountain of vitriolic raider chest-beating. Not only is that no fun but it's a little dangerous, for obvious reasons. Both to raiders and defenders. To me that is part of what bred all the cheating. But i recognize that this is probably not the time or place to have that discussion. Propaganda is cool. A little lighthearted trolling is cool. So I'll withhold judgment for now. I hope it doesn't turn into what Cormac or Ike have rightly expressed concerns about.

I'll be a defender as long as I play this game but I don't hate raiders. Y'all can be really cool. But please, please, for the love of God don't suck the fun out of it with more vitriolic crap. What goes around comes around, friends.

Much love, W&S :hug:
Warden-Constable and Chief of Culture, The Order of the Grey Wardens
Officer, The South Pacific Special Forces


Fireball-slinging wizard dude. Defender. Not an ideologue anymore. Spam specialist. Someday this signature may actually look halfway decent.

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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2258
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:05 pm

Plenty of raider groups that have never had any ties to TBR/DEN/Cora/Gest/(whatever everyone is expected to turn into gibbering idiots about now) have explicit ideals about trying to get rid of defenders. This isn't some new thing to get horrified about, you're just fishing for something to get upset about because you don't like the people involved. Members of Roman Empire would do well not to engage in this thread at all.
-The Testarossa Nightdrive of Klaus Devestatorie, aka Avakael-
-Archemperor of Unknown-
-Grand Chancellor Emeritus of The Independent Order-

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Sygmund
Secretary
 
Posts: 40
Founded: Mar 05, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sygmund » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:21 pm

Ikania wrote:I don't like the kind of propaganda that twists people's minds and turns them against any and all defenders and 'moderates' like this rotten ideology does so I'm sure as hell wary of any sign of purism.

Does being a defender justify the fact that the Grey Wardens use that same propaganda? (Of course, replacing "any and all defenders and 'moderates'" with "invaders"). Nah. If you can't handle a bit of propaganda, I haven't the slightest clue how you manage to stay still there. The "purist" mindset has been around for a long time, even before Cora's devastation of the phrase. This isn't really new.
Ikania wrote:I see this region as more than just raiders, it seems like a good UCR culture in the making, unlike the Wardens which is a defender organization and nothing more.

I don't know about that. Maybe so, if you also include that they spread the exact same ideology (defender purism, whatever you want to call it) that is harboured by the Grey Wardens. Honestly though, this doesn't surprise me. You'll be raiding by next week.
Ikania wrote:So try considering that for a moment before you accuse me of hypocrisy from atop your high horse.

Silly you, hawks don't need to ride horses.

Sunshine and birdseed,

Sygian

Edit: Sort of ninjad by Ava.
Last edited by Sygmund on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sygmund Vytherov

Also known as Sygian, Sygarette, and the Sygmeister.
You're welcome!

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Tim-Opolis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5084
Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Tim-Opolis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:38 pm

Big fan of the theme, though not as huge about some of the company and ideals, but such is life. Wishing you guys the best of luck and hoping you don't get overwhelmed by the same toxicity we saw prevalent in other regions.
Author of SC#74, SC #203 and SC #222 | Co-Author of SC#191
Founder of Spiritus | Three-Time Pharaoh of Osiris
The Grey Wardens
[11:16:10] <@Koth> tim is a loose cannon cop on the edge who doesn't play by the rules

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Cormactopia Prime
Diplomat
 
Posts: 784
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Libertarian Police State

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:48 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Plenty of raider groups that have never had any ties to TBR/DEN/Cora/Gest/(whatever everyone is expected to turn into gibbering idiots about now) have explicit ideals about trying to get rid of defenders. This isn't some new thing to get horrified about, you're just fishing for something to get upset about because you don't like the people involved. Members of Roman Empire would do well not to engage in this thread at all.

To be clear, I didn't have a problem with The Roman Empire being a region "dedicated to fighting defenders." Because duh. I also didn't have much of an issue with them including natives, because while I personally don't agree with griefing and thus obviously prefer raiders who are relatively neutral in their effect on natives, plenty of other raiders unfortunately engage in griefing and it's not at all unusual since regional influence was implemented.

Where I most felt Gest's influence was in the phrase "other enemies and traitors of the raider cause." This sounds like a reworded version of the "moderate traitors" The Black Riders and DEN went on and on about, which led to the kind of anti-Moderation extremism that certain delete-on-sight former players and 94 Block embraced. Gest was still spouting that nonsense just a few months ago (and probably still is) on The Invaders' Discord server to anyone who would listen, which was why I bailed from The Invaders in a hurry shortly after joining them, and it's disappointing and a little alarming to see ambiguous "enemies and traitors of the raider cause" mentioned in The Roman Empire's inaugural post in Gameplay. I would prefer not to see The Roman Empire and who knows who else caught up in another one of the rule-breaking scandals Gest's extremism generates. Don't end up like The Black Riders and DEN.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Cormac Skollvaldr (AKA The Oncoming Storm)

Kylia Quilor wrote:Don't try to go head to head with Cormac. Even if you can actually win at the argument, you don't beat him. Cormac is like one of those bizarre creatures of myth and legend that cannot be killed, no matter what you try. He can only be appeased and placated. :P

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Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ikania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:59 pm

Sygmund wrote:
Ikania wrote:I don't like the kind of propaganda that twists people's minds and turns them against any and all defenders and 'moderates' like this rotten ideology does so I'm sure as hell wary of any sign of purism.

Does being a defender justify the fact that the Grey Wardens use that same propaganda? (Of course, replacing "any and all defenders and 'moderates'" with "invaders"). Nah. If you can't handle a bit of propaganda, I haven't the slightest clue how you manage to stay still there. The "purist" mindset has been around for a long time, even before Cora's devastation of the phrase. This isn't really new.
Ikania wrote:I see this region as more than just raiders, it seems like a good UCR culture in the making, unlike the Wardens which is a defender organization and nothing more.

I don't know about that. Maybe so, if you also include that they spread the exact same ideology (defender purism, whatever you want to call it) that is harboured by the Grey Wardens. Honestly though, this doesn't surprise me. You'll be raiding by next week.

Such an original line.

Last I checked, the Grey Wardens aren't defender purists of any sort, and we gladly welcome all former raiders to the flock. Regardless of how long it's been around or how much propaganda you think it is, purism isn't any less cancerous a belief and a practice. The idea that TGW, its leadership or its membership, demonizes the character of present or former raiders simply for the way they do R/D, labelling them traitors and judging them negatively for it, is a complete falsehood and based entirely in fiction. In fact, a decent bulk of our ranks are comprised of former raiders of some sort. We very much enjoy the #madbantz that the raiders in our Discord give us, especially in VC.

Should take some pointers from fendas in how to have fun. Relax a bit. Stop letting that tribalistic mindset get in the way of a good time.
A Lazarene.
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Sygian wrote:Ike you are being a literal retard
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do

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Brother Snow
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Brother Snow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:19 am

Good luck Plagentine and crew with your new home in The Roman Empire. I personally enjoy the sound of your mission statement. You're off to a good start and I look forward to your raids!. I imagine I'll be popping by since any enemy of defenders and moderates is a friend of mine.

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Chelvo
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Feb 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Chelvo » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:18 am

Calm down, young ones. I mean, we are glad about the salt filling our mines without having actually to do anything, but a discussion whether or not purism is an acceptable position or not would belong in a different place. Please follow suit and do not pollute our grand introduction, thank you very much.

And on another note, this old priest here announces that the gods good will is upon the Roman Empire.
Pontifex Maximus of The Roman Empire
Former religious leader of Firehelm

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Kyorgia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 183
Founded: Jun 07, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kyorgia » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:26 am

Ikania wrote:Should take some pointers from fendas in how to have fun. Relax a bit. Stop letting that tribalistic mindset get in the way of a good time.


You play the game however you want and we play the game however we want. Problem solved
Kyorgia Vasentius

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Vaculatestar64
Envoy
 
Posts: 319
Founded: Feb 18, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Vaculatestar64 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:38 am

So much whining about the inner workings of another region. Ike, go mind your own business, you act like you're the pinnacle of NS politician however of everyone commenting here, including me, you have the most baggage on you. I'll be glad to join this region, in fact, I already have.
Optio of The Roman Empire
Grand Admiral of The Galactic Navy of The Galactic Order
Chancellor and Moff of Internal affairs of The Galactic Order

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Vaculatestar64
Envoy
 
Posts: 319
Founded: Feb 18, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Vaculatestar64 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:38 am

Vaculatestar64 wrote:So much whining about the inner workings of another region. Ike, go mind your own business, you act like you're the pinnacle of NS politician however of everyone commenting here, including me, you have the most baggage on you, except for MAYBE Cormac. I'll be glad to join this region, in fact, I already have.
Optio of The Roman Empire
Grand Admiral of The Galactic Navy of The Galactic Order
Chancellor and Moff of Internal affairs of The Galactic Order

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Tim-Opolis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5084
Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Tim-Opolis » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:54 am

So, after recent actions by Censor Thorn1000 that occurred earlier this morning, I've got to say that it seems my faith was misplaced. What assurances, if any, do we have at this point to believe that the toxicity that has consumed previous regions in that sub-section of the invader circles isn't going to consume this place. The aforementioned actions, in addition with keeping folks like Gest and Attero around, don't really inspire much faith in this region anymore.
Author of SC#74, SC #203 and SC #222 | Co-Author of SC#191
Founder of Spiritus | Three-Time Pharaoh of Osiris
The Grey Wardens
[11:16:10] <@Koth> tim is a loose cannon cop on the edge who doesn't play by the rules

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Solorni
Minister
 
Posts: 2492
Founded: Sep 04, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Solorni » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:08 am

The rise and fall of the Roman Empire?
Lovely Queen of Balder
Proud Delegate of WALL

Lucky Number 13

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Zaolat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1299
Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Zaolat » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:05 pm

Solorni wrote:The rise and fall of the Roman Empire?

Rome didn't fall in just a day you know?
Pharaoh Emeritus of Osiris - Forum
Guide to the Gameplay Forum
Max Barry on The Legend of Zelda<Zaolat>: maxbarry: Have you played any Legend of Zelda video game?
<maxbarry>: I have NEVER played Zelda, I know that is shocking
Victim of the Flag Thief

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Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ikania » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:10 pm

Vaculatestar64 wrote:So much whining about the inner workings of another region. Ike, go mind your own business, you act like you're the pinnacle of NS politician however of everyone commenting here, including me, you have the most baggage on you. I'll be glad to join this region, in fact, I already have.

cash me ousside howbow dah

The basic problem is that toxicity spills. It is an absolutely horrid idea to let the views and words of people like Block and Gest proliferate, not because it has to do completely with your region, but it affects ours as well. It's a community thing. Toxicity spreads. Not just about raiding and defending, but the division being sowed in NS and the kinds of people who relish that kind of thing. The head needs to be cut off. Tolerating people who have said and done things like they have, and I hope to God I don't have to point to logs for you to get the point, is unhealthy for everyone in the community and only enables further toxicity.
A Lazarene.
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Sygian wrote:Ike you are being a literal retard
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do

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