[PASSED] Commend Goobergunchia

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

It's a little late for that because the fourth wall has already been smashed to dust. Perhaps he's trying to grind the dust into micro particles to ensure that the fourth wall can never be erected again?

He's clearly only doing this to defy and annoy everybody, because even gameplayers have stated objections to awarding commendations to players. He basically admitted when he put through the last batch that he was only submitting C&Cs to "rile up" the WA players, and now he's at it again.

The grounds for this commendation are remarkably weak. Yeah, Goob created NSwiki. That's great, and NSwiki's a great resource, but where is the commendation to Blast for making WikiStates? Goob wrote a UN resolution. Uh-huh. We've already been told by GPers (and even some WA players) that passing resolutions is insufficient for a commendation. Besides that, as already stated, not a lot of thought went into the pedophilia thing; it was a literally a one-liner, and was only introduced to block an even worse resolution. Can we also commend me for submitting ALC? I get it, Goob's a great guy, but I think Todd's just beating around the bush as to the real reason for commending him: because he's a gameplayer. Why not just say "He's in with the in crowd" and be done with it?

[Quintessence of Dust]

Ardchoille, damn, that's embarrassing, yeah I did miss that; I always thought that thread ended with SP being let off scot-free! Hoist on my own petard.

Todd, I apologise for my comment.

OMGTKK, I think you're exactly right.

What I'd also note is that both this and Commend Sirocco have commended players who, while in their own way deserving, already have ways of being commended outside this rather staid system. If you really want to celebrate NSwiki - write up an article! Contribute to cleanup or user discussions. To write something about how good NSwiki is without making use of it seems remarkable folly. Similarly, if you want to honour Sirocco, contribute to his Issues Contest, or post in the ongoing thread about cleaning up mistakes in past issues.

If we have to have this stupid C&C system - and it seems certain we do, for there is no interest in admitting it's a mistake that has damaged the game for many players - can't we at least use it to commend players who don't ordinarily get the limelight, or for whom there exists no other way of recognising the contributions of? (Which is why, at the risk of threadjacking, it's a shame it's not available for historic nations, though I do understand the technical reason why that's not possible.)

[Todd McCloud]

It's a little late for that because the fourth wall has already been smashed to dust. Perhaps he's trying to grind the dust into micro particles to ensure that the fourth wall can never be erected again?

He's clearly only doing this to defy and annoy everybody, because even gameplayers have stated objections to awarding commendations to players. He basically admitted when he put through the last batch that he was only submitting C&Cs to "rile up" the WA players, and now he's at it again.

The grounds for this commendation are remarkably weak. Yeah, Goob created NSwiki. That's great, and NSwiki's a great resource, but where is the commendation to Blast for making WikiStates? Goob wrote a UN resolution. Uh-huh. We've already been told by GPers (and even some WA players) that passing resolutions is insufficient for a commendation. Besides that, as already stated, not a lot of thought went into the pedophilia thing; it was a literally a one-liner, and was only introduced to block an even worse resolution. Can we also commend me for submitting ALC? I get it, Goob's a great guy, but I think Todd's just beating around the bush as to the real reason for commending him: because he's a gameplayer. Why not just say "He's in with the in crowd" and be done with it?

Your conspiracy theories are irrelevant. It's a simple premise: There's more I can do in this game, I see nations or regions who can be commended or condemned, I like challenges, and I've lacked the WA experience for quite some time. It creates a perfect storm of wanting to do something in the game. I don't care if they're a gameplayer or a WA member - hence the thread I made for nominations; I wanted to see what other people deserved a C&C. Why wasn't the Jey one re-written, for example? It seemed it only had a few flaws.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

Your conspiracy theories are irrelevant.

But is it a conspiracy theory? You have a track record of doing this sort of thing and a history of making snarky comments along those lines. Where there's smoke there's fire...

It's a simple premise: There's more I can do in this game, I see nations or regions who can be commended or condemned, I like challenges,...

And you consider writing C&Cs a "challenge"? And what do you mean by "do"? Do you honestly consider these things to be constructive and if so what useful purpose do they serve?

...and I've lacked the WA experience for quite some time. It creates a perfect storm of wanting to do something in the game.

If you wanted WA experience you could have gotten involved long ago and taken part in writing real legislation. You could even do that now if you wanted to. Writing these C&Cs is not the best way to gain WA experience.

I don't care if they're a gameplayer or a WA member - hence the thread I made for nominations; I wanted to see what other people deserved a C&C.

I don't think any of us want to be commended, although a condemnation would be amusing.

Why wasn't the Jey one re-written, for example? It seemed it only had a few flaws.

It failed. When something fails at vote it's normal to just let it be, move on to the next thing. Also the fact that Jey is "one of us" would indicate that there wouldn't be much point in re-visiting the issue. It would just fail again.

[Urgench]

Your conspiracy theories are irrelevant.

It's hardly a theory when you openly boast about how little respect you have for any other position on WA activity except your own, and how pleased you are to rub other players faces in the results of actions they find objectionable.

I like challenges, and I've lacked the WA experience for quite some time. It creates a perfect storm of wanting to do something in the game.

I think what you actually like is to piss people off and enjoy marking out what you see as your new territory. This entire commendation and indeed your other C&Cs are aimed specifically at pointing out that old customs and traditions are now defunct and anachronistic. Your intentionally trying to set precedents which invalidate previous rules and concepts surrounding the WA and you might at least do us all the courtesy of not insulting our intelligence and be honest about that.

Goobergunchia has done loads of excellent things for NS and I would support commending them ( though naturally I wouldn't be voting ) but not at the expense of the character and essential nature of the WA. The fact that Goobergunchia is another GPer is telling and it smacks of partiality on your part to be commending them now but more importantly in this way.

Why wasn't the Jey one re-written, for example? It seemed it only had a few flaws.

You know as well as anyone that Jey's commendation failed because the GP section of the membership either knew so little and cared even less about Jey's contribution to another area of the game or wanted to send a message to Old Guarders and WA rpers that C&Cs and by extension the SC were not to be expected to be used by all and that only an overtly GP agenda will be recognised by that portion of the vote on SC resolutions.


You could try and use Goobergunchia's commendation to try and pour oil on the waters since their work has been for the benefit of all players regardless of their interests but instead you seem to want to use it to further drive a wedge between different player groups.

[Ardchoille]

Urgench, Kenny, MSR, quit hijacking this thread to refight past battles, and quit flaming. You don't know Todd McLeod's motives, your speculations on what they might be are insulting, and the whole diversion is completely off-topic. Todd McLeod, responding is just going to lead you into flamebait too. Cut it out, the lot of you, and get back on topic!

[Urgench]

Urgench, Kenny, MSR, quit hijacking this thread to refight past battles, and quit flaming. You don't know Todd McLeod's motives, your speculations on what they might be are insulting, and the whole diversion is completely off-topic. Todd McLeod, responding is just going to lead you into flamebait too. Cut it out, the lot of you, and get back on topic!

To be fair I was only responding to Todd Mcleod's post in which he outlined his motives for this commendation, I think it's fair that if he brings that in to debate we be able to address it, we certainly used to address motives in the past. Not disputing your ruling or anything just expressing an opinion. End of discussion ( threadjack ) I suppose.

[Todd McCloud]

Urgench, Kenny, MSR, quit hijacking this thread to refight past battles, and quit flaming. You don't know Todd McLeod's motives, your speculations on what they might be are insulting, and the whole diversion is completely off-topic. Todd McLeod, responding is just going to lead you into flamebait too. Cut it out, the lot of you, and get back on topic!

Todd McCloud

And I will comply. Is there anything else one wants to change with this draft?

[Todd McCloud]

Proposal submitted.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

The draft is very satisfactory for our approval, and we have done so, honoured ambassador.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

What exactly is an "out-of-game incident"?

[Todd McCloud]

Yeah, I'll grave dig this thread, only because I plan to submit this draft to the WA once I feel people are alright with it.

[New Dracora]

Perhaps there are other aspects that are being missed that maybe worth mentioning? Four single points for a proposal seems somewhat minimal.

(Note - I say this from the viewpoint of someone who is not overly familar with Goober's contributions, if there are other points to expand on - let's hear them).

[Gobbannium]

Sorry to re-raise old arguments, but I really would prefer to commend the nation, not the player, to the extent that I'd break the habit of a lifetime and vote FOR a nation version.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

I echo Gobby,

By commending or condemning a person you are technically creating two functions.
The person has to agree to commend both the person, and the nation of Goobergunchia.

If in the future, this duel function is ruled illegal with "Commend Kandarin", than that would make this proposal illegal as well, and we wouldn't want that.

For example, my repeal of SC#3 was ruled illegal for not only repealing, but apologizing to NAZI EUROPE. The voter had to agree to repeal SC#3, and apologize to NAZI EUROPE by approving the proposal. That's two functions in a strictly one function proposal.

[Sedgistan]

I don't think its really possible to commend a nation for creating NSwiki... there's just no way it can realistically be phrased, unless you omit the word 'NSwiki', in which case people may not understand what Todd is referring to. The resolution has to be written as a commendation of the 'player behind the nation'.

I'd like to see at least one more clause added to the proposal - it looks a bit sparse. Maybe something about him being a helpful & responsible player, citing the Tech & Mod Forum FAQ that he maintains: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=286

[Gobbannium]

I don't think its really possible to commend a nation for creating NSwiki... there's just no way it can realistically be phrased, unless you omit the word 'NSwiki', in which case people may not understand what Todd is referring to. The resolution has to be written as a commendation of the 'player behind the nation'.

Since a perfectly good version was demonstrated earlier in this thread, I'd have to disagee.

[Sedgistan]

True, I had forgotten that - however, I still think it should say 'NSwiki' rather than 'the Wiki Project', and I don't know whether that would be acceptable in a 'commend the nation' commendation.

[East Catalina]

All I have to say is thank you,and this will be the only post I have.I say thank you for establishing the wiki NSwiki,and even if it [i]is[i] Goobergunchia's leader's work,as well as a location on a server farm in the nation in question,I say this:it's impressive.And,don't call the mods.Please.

[Unibot]

True, I had forgotten that - however, I still think it should say 'NSwiki' rather than 'the Wiki Project', and I don't know whether that would be acceptable in a 'commend the nation' commendation.

How people interpret clauses as being sufficient evidence for a commendation is the only determination of acceptableness.

You could put "Goobergunchia likes pie, so he must be good", and that would be 'acceptable' so long as delegates agree.

The fourth wall doesn't come into it. As Topid says, the SCHQ is triangular -- it only has three walls.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

If you'd rather commend the nation (in a way that does not require adopting some sort of "meta-tense" that tries to commend both the nation and the player, I mean), you might try exploring Lord Evif's years-long career at the UN, his service as a faithful underling to Catherine Gratwick and as de-facto Secretary General of the UN, as well as the delegation's status as one of the earliest (you could even say "founding") members of the UN and its influence in helping shape international law in its early stages. I don't know if it's even necessary to mention the resolution he got passed, especially since commending people for writing resolutions has been criticized of late, but there's plenty of material there for an IC commendation.

[A mean old man]

I support the commendation and the ideas for which Goobergunchia will be commended. Corporate will vote on this proposal when it is submitted (we HAVE to vote on it. If it was up to me I'd tell the Delegate to approve it immediately, but I don't infringe on the rights of my region's citizens that my regional governmental constitution gives them, even as Founder of the region) to decide whether the Delegate will support it.

I know we'll agree to support it. We're all pretty good friends in Corporate and can usually come to near unanimous agreements, however we always like a good debate when opinions differ.

[Todd McCloud]

So... I personally would like to commend the player, and not the nation, but if people believe that's illegal... I don't know. I really believe the person should be commended

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

So... I personally would like to commend the player, and not the nation, but if people believe that's illegal... I don't know. I really believe the person should be commended

Just don't say "and commends the player, Goobergunchia, too" like you did with Kandy's, just say "commends Goobergunchia", and write whatever the hell you want before hand in the preambulatory clauses. That way we can interpret the dimension the proposal is in for ourselves -- see every other SC proposal than SC#2 for reference.

[Todd McCloud]

That's what I was thinking. Just trying to prevent another firestorm, lol.