[PASSED] Commend Fudgetopia

[Unibot II]

• If someone wants to commend a region for authoring proposals then let it get a few under its belt to provide a reason for a Commendation, the sort of badge that regions can get.

How can a region be commended for authoring proposals, if you've already prevented regions from being recognized for their authorship? This seems like a contradiction.

[Mahaj WA Seat]

• The "proposal author" badge has to go somewhere, and the "somewhere" is on the nation that submitted it. A region can't submit a proposal.

I don't think the question was about a region being the actual submitter. Co-authors don't get credit with a badge, do they? I don't think they do. So yes, a region can't submit a proposal, but that wasn't the question, I don't think.

[Sedgistan]

How can a region be commended for authoring proposals, if you've already prevented regions from being recognized for their authorship? This seems like a contradiction.

They can be commended for fostering a community of WA authors.

I don't think the question was about a region being the actual submitter. Co-authors don't get credit with a badge, do they? I don't think they do. So yes, a region can't submit a proposal, but that wasn't the question, I don't think.

Ardchoille knows what the question was.

[Daynor]

I'll probe around and see if this is still worth pursuing since it can no longer be the people Fudge served most thanking Fudge, but rather me, whose had little to no interaction with him. Get back to the people in this thread in a couple days.

[Sedgistan]

A commendation is something passed by the members of the World Assembly - it's not just a gift from the author. I don't see why this should stop you from submitting. Members of The South Pacific can still show their appreciation for Fudgetopia by voting for the proposal.

[Ardchoille]

I'll probe around and see if this is still worth pursuing since it can no longer be the people Fudge served most thanking Fudge, but rather me, whose had little to no interaction with him. Get back to the people in this thread in a couple days.

Seriously, you're considering withdrawing a proposal because you disagree with a technicality?

You might like to have a think about what's more important. Is it worth pursuing a commendation to have Fudge's contribution recognised by everybody, even those who've had absolutely no interaction with him, because they've been convinced by the recitation of his achievements?

Or is it more important that you be seen as polite by thanking every single person who's helped you tell about those achievements?

Telling you was their thanks to him. And (if you can bring it to the vote), voting for it and persuading other individuals and their regions to vote for it will also be a means of thanking him. It's a significant "thanks" that you, who haven' t had as much to do with him, still decided that it was worth writing a commendation for him.

An author' s focus on writing a good proposal is understandable, since you want it to be the best possible tribute to someone whose efforts you think have contributed greatly to NS. But don' t forget that the real focus is the nominee, not the proposal, its contributors, or its author.

EDIT: Ninja'd, and, as usual, more concisely. Damn smartypants newbie mods!

[Daynor]

First off, this is an organized effort of the South Pacific community whether you want it to be or not Ard. So yes, if the rest in the region would like me to discontinue I will.

I don't know Fudge that well. I'm honest about that. In general when a nation commends a nation it doesn't know very well motives can be questionable... After all if I wanted to I could have a dozen commendations drafted up in the next couple weeks of pretty popular people. That would make the SC look bad and devalue commendations as a whole.

Obviously, that is not what is happening in this case, but those possible misconceptions and bad images need to be considered by TSP before we move on. And if there is any more long-term member of TSP willing to step forward to author this it is probably better.

[The Cat-Tribe]

The South Pacific needs to discuss this internally, but I don't think we should let frustration with a setback scuttle Fudgetopia getting the recognition she deserves.

Obviously, some of would like the Mods to have ruled differently. I can see both sides and think they could have allowed a region to be a co-author, but they have reasons for ruling otherwise that aren't arbirtary or absurd. As they set they rules, we've protested, and they've made their position clear, we can either play by those rules or take our marbles home.

The latter course seems to be cutting of our nose to spite our face.

I'll make more specific suggestions about what we should due to see that Fudgie is commended on the TSP boards.

[-The South Pacific-]

Let me submit the resolution! :/

EDIT: No seriously, if you want the password for this nation, Topi, just send Uni a tg. The mods shouldn't have a problem with you being mentioned as a co-author... or will they, just to spoil our fun?

EDIT2: Or use your first clause to disclaimer, "ACKNOWLEDGING that this resolution was sanctioned by and born into existence with the invaluable assistance of the South Pacific community,"... unless of course, the mods wish to make a new rule saying... " um... you can't do.. that.. 'cause that would be.. clever... and appropriate.. and.. and.. ugh. I just don't like you getting around my pointless rulings!"

[Daynor]

TSP's low endocap makes it very hard to tart to, since in TEP and all the other feeders I've been in, I could endorse every WA in the region on one day (easy to do in one sitting) and not break the cap. If I did that in TSP I'd shatter the cap, so I have to tart slowly so I know exactly when to stop taking a little time to endotart every few days (which was harder for me than just spending a long time on one day).

In other words, out of pure laziness, I would very much like NOT to have to endo-tart myself back up to 40.

[Unibot II]

TSP's low endocap makes it very hard to tart to, since in TEP and all the other feeders I've been in, I could endorse every WA in the region on one day (easy to do in one sitting) and not break the cap. If I did that in TSP I'd shatter the cap, so I have to tart slowly so I know exactly when to stop taking a little time to endotart every few days (which was harder for me than just spending a long time on one day).

In other words, out of pure laziness, I would very much like NOT to have to endo-tart myself back up to 40.

I could submit it for you, whenever you want to submit. :/

[Daynor]

The region will have to talk about that.

[Southern Bellz]

Unibot, I really appreciate all the offers of help you have done in this thread. You are welcome to pop by TSP any time

[Southern Bellz]

Anyone who is well versed in the SC dealings and getting things to pass, I would love any help getting this passed

[Berzerkiztan]

Impressed at this unmatched accomplishment, and also that as a result, Fudgetopia has long been the most influential nation in the world,

This is completely unsubstantiated and is ultimately a meaningless statement? How can one quantitatively or even qualitatively prove this? It's impossible, and it harms the Security' Council's credibility.

This clause is so bad that it's a definite resolution breaker. I understand that the nominee is a great person, but this clause is hyperbolic and therefore unworthy of our consideration.

[Celestial Sphere]

We are not regulars in this Chamber, but could not hold back from addressing this resolution:

Acknowledging Fudgetopia as the longest serving delegate of The South Pacific, whose reign began on July 5, 2006 and ended on January 1, 2010, totaling 1276 days or three and one-half years,

Great.

Remembering throughout NationStates history the Pacific regions have been unstable and difficult to maintain,

True.

Recognizing that Fudgetopia, in compliance with the laws of The South Pacific, allowed challenges to the delegate's position and criticisms of the delegate's leadership at any time,

And? We should expect that kind of behaviour, not view it as praise-worthy. That also sounds like a feature of The South Pacific's laws, not Fudgetopia's policies.

Amazed that Fudgetopia maintained control of a Pacific for three and a half years, without restricting freedom,

See above. Additionally, are you saying that Fudgetopia never ejected any nations?

Impressed at this unmatched accomplishment, and also that as a result, Fudgetopia has long been the most influential nation in the world,

That looks like an extension of the above points about being such a long-serving feeder delegate.

Noting that Fudgetopia was founded on September 4, 2003 in The South Pacific,

And?

Realizing since that date, Fudgetopia has been one of the most important figures in The South Pacific and was a founding member of The South Pacific's military, served in various cabinet positions throughout the years, and became a forum administrator of The South Pacific Forum,

Vague. No examples of what Fudgetopia has done, and no explanation of why these actions mean we should commend them.

Understanding that Fudgetopia has been a positive force of leadership within The South Pacific for over seven years,

Vague - you haven't explained how.

Believing that any nation having had such success as the fair and diligent leader of a Pacific is deserving of recognition,

Success? All we've been told is that Fudgetopia was delegate for a long time, allowed others to challenge for the position, and did some other stuff in The South Pacific. We see little evidence of success.

We are afraid that whilst Fudgetopia may deserve a commendation for their work, we cannot support this vague and unspecific resolution, which deals only in generalities. As such, we shall go on the record as against this resolution.

[Mahaj WA Seat]

FOR. Simply for.

[Daynor]

I'm very pleased to see this is going so well. Fudge is a really impressive FEMALE player.

(And everyone should continue to correct me when I call her a him. )

[Southern Bellz]

Impressed at this unmatched accomplishment, and also that as a result, Fudgetopia has long been the most influential nation in the world,

This is completely unsubstantiated and is ultimately a meaningless statement? How can one quantitatively or even qualitatively prove this? It's impossible, and it harms the Security' Council's credibility.

This clause is so bad that it's a definite resolution breaker. I understand that the nominee is a great person, but this clause is hyperbolic and therefore unworthy of our consideration.

As far as influence in the game nationstates goes, I believe fudge is number 1.

[Kalibarr]

Recognizing that Fudgetopia, in compliance with the laws of The South Pacific, allowed challenges to the delegate's position and criticisms of the delegate's leadership at any time,

And? We should expect that kind of behaviour, not view it as praise-worthy. That also sounds like a feature of The South Pacific's laws, not Fudgetopia's policies.

There are many other feeders(not many currently, but in the past especially) where the WA Delegate has become a dictator.

Fudgetopia didn't.

[Daynor]

This is completely unsubstantiated and is ultimately a meaningless statement? How can one quantitatively or even qualitatively prove this? It's impossible, and it harms the Security' Council's credibility.

This clause is so bad that it's a definite resolution breaker. I understand that the nominee is a great person, but this clause is hyperbolic and therefore unworthy of our consideration.

As far as influence in the game nationstates goes, I believe fudge is number 1.

^Yes, this is what we meant. There were delegates who didn't understand that. I was talking about in regards to the World Census Report 'Most Influential' Fudge has ranked #1 in the world for as long as I can remember. NOT that he wields the most influence in regional politics around the world.

And Kali is on mark too. I would be interested to see if there is another three and one-half year period where there wasn't an abuse of power by a delegate in each feederite. If TSP isn't the only feederite to go that long without abuses of power, it is certainly rare for there to be that kind of streak from what I've seen.

EDIT: Abuse of power is the wrong term... I should say Undemocratic Actions instead, since in some feeders being completely tyrannical is within the delegates legitimate powers.

[Celestial Sphere]

We believe you are missing the point. We feel that while abuse of power by a feeder delegate should be punished by condemnation, a delegate not abusing their power is simply acting as we should expect. A feeder delegate should act above and beyond our expections in order to earn themselves a commendation.

Hence, we would like to see Daynor address the rest of our points made above.

[Daynor]

We believe you are missing the point. We feel that while abuse of power by a feeder delegate should be punished by condemnation,

They should and have been. See Durk.

a delegate not abusing their power is simply acting as we should expect. A feeder delegate should act above and beyond our expections in order to earn themselves a commendation.

Expectations.

And three and a half years is far above and beyond. And again, unmatched by any to date.

[Lethen]

And? We should expect that kind of behaviour, not view it as praise-worthy. That also sounds like a feature of The South Pacific's laws, not Fudgetopia's policies.

While we should expect that kind of behavior, many of the feeders have been ruled at one point or another by dictatorial WADs who have either been overthrown (or gotten there by overthrowing another) or ousted in one of the many (and usually fail-worthy) organized invasions. And think of your mention of the laws like this...I'll use Europeia as an example. By Europeian law, yes, I am obligated to allow open challenges and criticisms of my post (heck, it is an automatic feature that the challenge results in an election *everytime*); before this was in place in the laws, our previous delegate did this as his own custom. Now, all my rambling aside, I'm driving at the point that this may have been Fudge's policy before it was put into law.

As for your point about ejecting nations in regards to never restricting freedoms, there are times when ejecting a nation is necessary.

As for the proposal itself, it would be nice to see some more flesh to it, and I think given the writer's position as a citizen of the South Pacific, he (or she?) has the means and access to resources which may detail more of Fudge's actual actions and decisions (i.e. kill the vagueness).

Not sure if Europeia will be voting for this or not.

[Unibot II]

Unibot, I really appreciate all the offers of help you have done in this thread. You are welcome to pop by TSP any time

*waves* Will do. Slap Todd for me though, I wouldn't have claimed to author something that I didn't, I was merely offering to do it because I switch WA accounts every week as a defender. I wouldn't have treated it like I authored anything.