[PASSED] Repeal Conscientious Objectors Act

[Keronians]

How dare you say that the views of pacifism are "wrong". You may say that you do not agree with them, but it is entirely out of line for you to say that someone's views are wrong. And I'm sure that if you were, for some strange reason, to attack my nation which is also pacifist, I'm sure that you would not experience and chaos or massacre, other than what you bring with you. If you took us over we would simply refuse to recognize you, we would go about our daily lives as best as possible.

While I do not want to derail this debate (wait there has been a debate ... darn I must have missed it) I would point out that there are some nations out there where if you did what you propose you would cease to exist in less than a generation. You would find the foreign oppressors taking your children to be indoctrinated in their military; you would find that your failure to convert to their religion would cause them to seek you out for your extermination; last and worse of all, because you are technically "foreigners" in your home land, the occupying government would expell the remaining lot of you just for humor value.

(OOC: Yes these are all daily issues. One of my puppet nations has done several of them already.)

Depends on the invaders. I usually treat regions I conquer fairly and equally. Their people are our people. They have the same rights (and disadvantages) as a Keronian would have because they are Keronians. But of course, not everyone is like that.

[Keronians]

That's not pacifism, that's fallacy. I wouldn't experience chaos or massacre, you would if I attacked you. A well-organised force with good strategies and trained and well-armed soldiers with air support against a mob of civilians armed with sticks and guns they just acquired. Who do you think will win? And how large do you think the casualties would be on your side? I don't oppose it, it's very nice and it would be an ideal world, but it's impractical. The best way to fight that would be guerilla tactics, but that would only work if the other side didn't want to hurt civilians. In most cases, I would do my best not to hurt civilians if possible, but in your case, where the civilians are the army, I'd order the army to wipe you out.

You fail to understand, in my nation my people would not be armed with sticks and guns, we wouldn't be armed at all, we would refuse to cooperate. We would not fight you because we are all pacifists.

Your ignorance is evident. Not "everybody" is a pacifist. It's impossible. You would refuse to cooperate? That's something I could easily fix (Holocaust sounding much?).

Jokes aside, you would cooperate. For you wouldn't become a colony, you'd become a protectorate.

[Concordeia]

You fail to understand, in my nation my people would not be armed with sticks and guns, we wouldn't be armed at all, we would refuse to cooperate. We would not fight you because we are all pacifists.

Your ignorance is evident. Not "everybody" is a pacifist. It's impossible. You would refuse to cooperate? That's something I could easily fix (Holocaust sounding much?).

Jokes aside, you would cooperate. For you wouldn't become a colony, you'd become a protectorate.

"Yeah, one created with unilateral authority and against the principle of national sovereignty," the Concordeian delegate snipped.

[Worvland]

You fail to understand, in my nation my people would not be armed with sticks and guns, we wouldn't be armed at all, we would refuse to cooperate. We would not fight you because we are all pacifists.

Your ignorance is evident. Not "everybody" is a pacifist. It's impossible. You would refuse to cooperate? That's something I could easily fix (Holocaust sounding much?).

Jokes aside, you would cooperate. For you wouldn't become a colony, you'd become a protectorate.

Of course not everyone is a pacifist but 90% of the population, so I gave myself a little creative liberty And as to refusing to cooperate let my demonstrate with this quote from Gandhi-

"I do not want Britain to be defeated, nor do I want her to be victorious in a trial of brute strength, whether expressed through the muscle or the brain. Your muscular bravery is an established fact. Need you demonstrate that your brain is also as unrivaled in destructive power as your muscle? I hope you do not wish to enter into such an undignified competition with the Nazis. I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldier. I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them."

[Keronians]

Your ignorance is evident. Not "everybody" is a pacifist. It's impossible. You would refuse to cooperate? That's something I could easily fix (Holocaust sounding much?).

Jokes aside, you would cooperate. For you wouldn't become a colony, you'd become a protectorate.

Of course not everyone is a pacifist but 90% of the population, so I gave myself a little creative liberty And as to refusing to cooperate let my demonstrate with this quote from Gandhi-

"I do not want Britain to be defeated, nor do I want her to be victorious in a trial of brute strength, whether expressed through the muscle or the brain. Your muscular bravery is an established fact. Need you demonstrate that your brain is also as unrivaled in destructive power as your muscle? I hope you do not wish to enter into such an undignified competition with the Nazis. I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldier. I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them."

OOC: As an Indian I know all of this, but it is impractical. How would the Nazis have been beaten without force. A madman does not listen. And yes, very good, I give my land and I let him kill anybody who doesn't look like a blonde with blue eyes and white. Impractical. He'll slay all of us and put Germans in there. That only matters if he gives a shit about killing innocent people. Hitler didn't give a shit about killing innocent people.

[Cardoness]

That's not pacifism, that's fallacy. I wouldn't experience chaos or massacre, you would if I attacked you. A well-organised force with good strategies and trained and well-armed soldiers with air support against a mob of civilians armed with sticks and guns they just acquired. Who do you think will win? And how large do you think the casualties would be on your side? I don't oppose it, it's very nice and it would be an ideal world, but it's impractical. The best way to fight that would be guerilla tactics, but that would only work if the other side didn't want to hurt civilians. In most cases, I would do my best not to hurt civilians if possible, but in your case, where the civilians are the army, I'd order the army to wipe you out.

You fail to understand, in my nation my people would not be armed with sticks and guns, we wouldn't be armed at all, we would refuse to cooperate. We would not fight you because we are all pacifists.

And what if it is not the intent of your invader to occupy your land or even to enslave you, but to kill you all? Would you be led like sheep to the slaughter? Would you stand by as your family was killed before your eyes?

[Myrensis]

And what if it is not the intent of your invader to occupy your land or even to enslave you, but to kill you all? Would you be led like sheep to the slaughter? Would you stand by as your family was killed before your eyes?

But of course Ambassador, what is the extermination of entire nations, entire peoples, the destruction of everything one holds dear, next to the value of being able to pat oneself on the back for some supposed sense of moral or intellectual superiority? For ones few remaining moments of life in any case.

As it is the position of the Republic of Myrensis that it is better to be living sinners than dead saints, we have cast our vote in favor of the repeal, and will await a new resolution that allows for a more reasonable, and sane, method of allowing those with genuine objections to violence to be released from their military obligations.

[Garrus Vakarian (Ancient)]

The point about Hitler is a terrible one however, because you'd have to bring this back to the idea of cause and effect. How did Hitler gain his ideological ideas? Through the first world war is one of them, how did the German people look to him for leadership, the Treaty of Versailles which was a repressive, unfair treaty. What we could conclude is that violence, breeds more violence.

You can't bring up the holocaust and Hitler for an argument, without acknowledging the events that preceded it.

Anyway that was just a little side note, the idea that someone should be forced to serve even if it conflicts with their moral views is unjust, inhumane and against our own freedoms and liberties.

[Bears Armed]

[never mind]

[Keronians]

The point about Hitler is a terrible one however, because you'd have to bring this back to the idea of cause and effect. How did Hitler gain his ideological ideas? Through the first world war is one of them, how did the German people look to him for leadership, the Treaty of Versailles which was a repressive, unfair treaty. What we could conclude is that violence, breeds more violence.

You can't bring up the holocaust and Hitler for an argument, without acknowledging the events that preceded it.

Anyway that was just a little side note, the idea that someone should be forced to serve even if it conflicts with their moral views is unjust, inhumane and against our own freedoms and liberties.

OOC: Yes, I know. It wasn't the TOV though. It was the economy that led the Germans to vote for Hitler. Hitler didn't gain his ideological ideas (in terms of the Holocaust) from WWI in any way. That was pure jealousy. He used to be broke back when he was trying to be an artist/painter.

The majority of his ideological ideas were gained through pure hatred and twisted mentality. He had nothing against the British. He didn't even want a war in the West. I am acknowledging the events that preceded it. The Germans' opinion wasn't affected as much by the TOV as it was by the economy. I'm not denying that it was hated, but it was more the economy than the TOV.

Oh and what would you prefer? If the guy truly feels that way, then yes. If an invasion isn't impending and we aren't badly losing then he can have his views. However, how am I to know he isn't simply claiming to be pacifist in order to escape war?

[The Rich Port]

I dunno if it's too early to ask... But WHERE THE HELL ARE THE REST OF THE VOTES?

The resolution vote had ~8,000+ combined votes going for it, and this one only has ~5,000+ votes in total.

This is why I hate these shammy insta-repeals: they always leave people out of the loop.

[Flibbleites]

I dunno if it's too early to ask... But WHERE THE HELL ARE THE REST OF THE VOTES?

The resolution vote had ~8,000+ combined votes going for it, and this one only has ~5,000+ votes in total.

This is why I hate these shammy insta-repeals: they always leave people out of the loop.

Well there are still over 2 days left to vote, some people probably haven't voted yet.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[The Rich Port]

I dunno if it's too early to ask... But WHERE THE HELL ARE THE REST OF THE VOTES?

The resolution vote had ~8,000+ combined votes going for it, and this one only has ~5,000+ votes in total.

This is why I hate these shammy insta-repeals: they always leave people out of the loop.

Well there are still over 2 days left to vote, some people probably haven't voted yet.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Or they did the weirdest switcheroo ever...

Just Guy was the biggest delegate supporter of the bill... And is now the biggest opposer to the bill... I don't get it. What happened?

[Flibbleites]

Well there are still over 2 days left to vote, some people probably haven't voted yet.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Or they did the weirdest switcheroo ever...

Just Guy was the biggest delegate supporter of the bill... And is now the biggest opposer to the bill... I don't get it. What happened?

I don't know, maybe his vote is decided democratically?

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[The Rich Port]

Or they did the weirdest switcheroo ever...

Just Guy was the biggest delegate supporter of the bill... And is now the biggest opposer to the bill... I don't get it. What happened?

I don't know, maybe his vote is decided democratically?

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

That just makes it even MOAR suspicious... So first, the majority decided one way... And then it... Something'd? I thought it was pretty clear with that first vote...

Ah, whatever. I got more important things to do, and there's already a replacement bill. So I guess THAT'S what's happening.

[Eireann Fae]

I see that you have no formally trained fighters, therefor will lose any conflict you are presented with. Unless, of course, someone outside your borders can defend you. So, reducing that assistance is not a very wise move on your part.

"On the contrary, Ambassador. We are very close friends with our neighbours, providing them with food, water, aid, and a great tourist hot-spot. We win the people over with diplomacy, not violence. The Community has been attacked a few times in the past, and when it happens, they simply move on. Unlike most, we are not particularly attached to the particular plot of land on which we reside, and most of us would rather turn it over to an invading force than get involved in a drawn-out conflict in which hundreds or thousands will die. Of course, the Faeries are more than capable of fortifying our position so that we wouldn't have to fight or leave, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, diplomacy has worked well for us, and we and our neighbours get along just fine. If you are under constant threat of attack, I suggest you look to your own diplomatic solutions and see where you went wrong."

Bullshit, Ambassador. How does "any other reason" qualify as a valid reason? Vehemently support this repeal. COs have a right to their opinion and objection, but in cases of national emergency (like an impending invasion), we need them. I am personally against conscription and the Keronian military is made up entirely of volunteers, but this could cripple us! A soldier must comply with his contract until it ends. After that, he can do whatever he wants.

Under the current resolution, I could be opposed to going to war because I like sleeping in my bed!

Alexandra turns her attention to the Keronian Ambassador. "As I have said, repeatedly, if your nation is being invaded and your people still won't fight to defend it, your nation probably did something wrong, and deserves to be overtaken by a new regime that may treat their people better. I don't believe in unbreakable contracts (and no, I don't care if nobody in this room never does business with me). That holds doubly true for contracts agreeing to kill other people. The Faerie word for 'kill' is inhoſ. Know what that means? It means 'to ingest the soul'. Murder is an abhorrent practice, Ambassador, and nobody should be forced to commit the act, for any reason, no matter how many contracts they've signed."

"And if a man would rather sleep in his bed and let an enemy tank roll over his house than to stand and fight with his nation, that's his fucking prerogative!"

That is so wrong in so many ways... Chaos, no organisation, and massacre are the words that come into my mind if someone were to attack your nation.

"Afe'zim-zökü," replies Epiſkœ, her tone unusually dark. One can almost see the tempestuous storm behind her golden eyes as she describes the defensive policy of the Eireann Fae Faeries. "Veʃnil-ifenſö veʃpöþ-veʃʒü Fe'rœſœn-Veʃ'rœſna kön böþüʃak böþülaʃönil paʒin Fe'rœſœn-möhœſ'wahœʃ kön ũveʃmönſœn feninhöſœn Fe'rœſ-Ũveʃ'köſ az. Inhöſförʃin rüʃözœaʃin."

Rowan, after recovering from the shiver that went down her spine hear the Emissary speak in such a manner, offers a brief interpretation to the Keronian Ambassador. "We are safe, Ambassador. You need not concern yourself with our well-being." The Spirit Faerie turns and speaks briefly with Rowan, demanding to know why her translation was inaccurate. The girl quietly reminds the Faerie that this is a place of diplomacy, not war; and besides, is it really wise to give away such knowledge? Epiſkœ reluctantly agrees, but resumes glaring at the Ambassador she had recently addressed.

¹ Translation: You are welcome to try. Earth Faeries would make an iron mountain of our island while Fire Faeries boil the flesh from your bones and Air Faeries cast your troops to the winds. The lack of a military^† does not mean the utter lack of defense.
^† Literally, "group of killers".

Alexandra rises and nods in appreciate to the Ambassador from Garrus Vakarian. "Ours is clearly not the predominant view, and I'm glad to see there's more than two delegations here that support peoples' rights to not be killers. We, for one, thank you for your endorsement of the existing Conscientious Objector Act, and wish more like-minded individuals were here to help us strike down this repeal."

(OOC: I like the Gandhi quote, too. Survival is not necessarily the point of pacifists, people. Some people simply would rather die than kill. Gandhi and those of his thinking wouldn't care if Britannia were ruled by blonde Germans - or the world, for that matter. The Germans could take their land, and their possessions, and even their very lives. But they could not take the peoples' spirits, hearts, and minds.

Also, @TRP: 10,000 Islands holds votes on an off-site forum, and Just Guy votes whichever way that turns out. Shitsux, because there's rarely more than a half-dozen votes for either side, but that's how it works there. It was probably a close vote both times [I haven't looked, if I even still can, but I'm imagining some 6 against the repeal, 8 for, or something to that effect]. It'd be nice if more of the 500 XKI WA members participated in the debates, but they just don't.)

[Keronians]

I see that you have no formally trained fighters, therefor will lose any conflict you are presented with. Unless, of course, someone outside your borders can defend you. So, reducing that assistance is not a very wise move on your part.

"On the contrary, Ambassador. We are very close friends with our neighbours, providing them with food, water, aid, and a great tourist hot-spot. We win the people over with diplomacy, not violence. The Community has been attacked a few times in the past, and when it happens, they simply move on. Unlike most, we are not particularly attached to the particular plot of land on which we reside, and most of us would rather turn it over to an invading force than get involved in a drawn-out conflict in which hundreds or thousands will die. Of course, the Faeries are more than capable of fortifying our position so that we wouldn't have to fight or leave, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, diplomacy has worked well for us, and we and our neighbours get along just fine. If you are under constant threat of attack, I suggest you look to your own diplomatic solutions and see where you went wrong."

Bullshit, Ambassador. How does "any other reason" qualify as a valid reason? Vehemently support this repeal. COs have a right to their opinion and objection, but in cases of national emergency (like an impending invasion), we need them. I am personally against conscription and the Keronian military is made up entirely of volunteers, but this could cripple us! A soldier must comply with his contract until it ends. After that, he can do whatever he wants.

Under the current resolution, I could be opposed to going to war because I like sleeping in my bed!

Alexandra turns her attention to the Keronian Ambassador. "As I have said, repeatedly, if your nation is being invaded and your people still won't fight to defend it, your nation probably did something wrong, and deserves to be overtaken by a new regime that may treat their people better. I don't believe in unbreakable contracts (and no, I don't care if nobody in this room never does business with me). That holds doubly true for contracts agreeing to kill other people. The Faerie word for 'kill' is inhoſ. Know what that means? It means 'to ingest the soul'. Murder is an abhorrent practice, Ambassador, and nobody should be forced to commit the act, for any reason, no matter how many contracts they've signed."

"And if a man would rather sleep in his bed and let an enemy tank roll over his house than to stand and fight with his nation, that's his fucking prerogative!"

That is so wrong in so many ways... Chaos, no organisation, and massacre are the words that come into my mind if someone were to attack your nation.

"Afe'zim-zökü," replies Epiſkœ, her tone unusually dark. One can almost see the tempestuous storm behind her golden eyes as she describes the defensive policy of the Eireann Fae Faeries. "Veʃnil-ifenſö veʃpöþ-veʃʒü Fe'rœſœn-Veʃ'rœſna kön böþüʃak böþülaʃönil paʒin Fe'rœſœn-möhœſ'wahœʃ kön ũveʃmönſœn feninhöſœn Fe'rœſ-Ũveʃ'köſ az. Inhöſförʃin rüʃözœaʃin."

Rowan, after recovering from the shiver that went down her spine hear the Emissary speak in such a manner, offers a brief interpretation to the Keronian Ambassador. "We are safe, Ambassador. You need not concern yourself with our well-being." The Spirit Faerie turns and speaks briefly with Rowan, demanding to know why her translation was inaccurate. The girl quietly reminds the Faerie that this is a place of diplomacy, not war; and besides, is it really wise to give away such knowledge? Epiſkœ reluctantly agrees, but resumes glaring at the Ambassador she had recently addressed.

¹ Translation: You are welcome to try. Earth Faeries would make an iron mountain of our island while Fire Faeries boil the flesh from your bones and Air Faeries cast your troops to the winds. The lack of a military^† does not mean the utter lack of defense.
^† Literally, "group of killers".

Alexandra rises and nods in appreciate to the Ambassador from Garrus Vakarian. "Ours is clearly not the predominant view, and I'm glad to see there's more than two delegations here that support peoples' rights to not be killers. We, for one, thank you for your endorsement of the existing Conscientious Objector Act, and wish more like-minded individuals were here to help us strike down this repeal."

(OOC: I like the Gandhi quote, too. Survival is not necessarily the point of pacifists, people. Some people simply would rather die than kill. Gandhi and those of his thinking wouldn't care if Britannia were ruled by blonde Germans - or the world, for that matter. The Germans could take their land, and their possessions, and even their very lives. But they could not take the peoples' spirits, hearts, and minds.

Also, @TRP: 10,000 Islands holds votes on an off-site forum, and Just Guy votes whichever way that turns out. Shitsux, because there's rarely more than a half-dozen votes for either side, but that's how it works there. It was probably a close vote both times [I haven't looked, if I even still can, but I'm imagining some 6 against the repeal, 8 for, or something to that effect]. It'd be nice if more of the 500 XKI WA members participated in the debates, but they just don't.)

First of all, would you like a drink? It may calm you.

Now, to your objections, very well, you may feel that way, but I don't. I'm paying those soldiers to act in the interests of the nations, and they willingly put themselves up for it knowing full well the drawbacks.

In terms of killing, he is defending himself, in a way. If he doesn't shoot the other guy, he'll get shot. See how that works?

Yes, the vast majority of our population is patriotic and loyal to the flag and the Emperor. However, there is the occasional asshole (I mean conscientous objector) that refuses to fight because he'd rather stay with his mom. *The Ambassador checks himself after a nudge from his aidé*

Sorry, we simply oppose people who refuse to stand by their compatriots and allow them to die without doing anything about it simly because of the way they think. In times of peace, or even conflict, if it doesn't threaten to defeat the nation, I'm all for genuine objectors, but not in times of national emergency.

And no, we have no interest in conquering your nation. Our military is solely for defensive purposes and as support for our allies should they need it. The times of aggression are long behind us.

I see that your neighbour protects you, but we don't usually give aid in exchange for protection (that seems strange to us, for some reason), and prefer to rely on ourselves to protect our nation.

[Worvland]

The entire Worvland delegation gave the Eireann Fae ambassadors a standing ovation.
"Thank you ambassador, those were brave and noble words. Though it seems as usual to have fallen on deaf ears."

[Keronians]

The entire Worvland delegation gave the Eireann Fae ambassadors a standing ovation.
"Thank you ambassador, those were brave and noble words. Though it seems as usual to have fallen on deaf ears."

I heard her, Ambassador. And I understood her stance. I didn't agree with it, though.

As for the standing ovation, please sit down and shut up, you're not allowing others to debate and express their opinions and simply causing unnecessary disturbance. You can congratulate her privately if you so wish.

[Worvland]

The entire Worvland delegation gave the Eireann Fae ambassadors a standing ovation.
"Thank you ambassador, those were brave and noble words. Though it seems as usual to have fallen on deaf ears."

I heard her, Ambassador. And I understood her stance. I didn't agree with it, though.

As for the standing ovation, please sit down and shut up, you're not allowing others to debate and express their opinions and simply causing unnecessary disturbance. You can congratulate her privately if you so wish.

If the ambassador is unable to debate in a way that is civil and in line with decorum, we politely suggest that they take a minute to collect themselves. Perhaps we should stop debating pacifism and deal with the issue at hand.

[Eireann Fae]

First of all, would you like a drink? It may calm you.

Now, to your objections, very well, you may feel that way, but I don't. I'm paying those soldiers to act in the interests of the nations, and they willingly put themselves up for it knowing full well the drawbacks. ¹

In terms of killing, he is defending himself, in a way. If he doesn't shoot the other guy, he'll get shot. See how that works? ²

Yes, the vast majority of our population is patriotic and loyal to the flag and the Emperor. However, there is the occasional asshole (I mean conscientous objector) that refuses to fight because he'd rather stay with his mom. *The Ambassador checks himself after a nudge from his aidé*

Sorry, we simply oppose people who refuse to stand by their compatriots and allow them to die without doing anything about it simly because of the way they think. In times of peace, or even conflict, if it doesn't threaten to defeat the nation, I'm all for genuine objectors, but not in times of national emergency.³

And no, we have no interest in conquering your nation. Our military is solely for defensive purposes and as support for our allies should they need it. The times of aggression are long behind us. ⁴

I see that your neighbour protects you, but we don't usually give aid in exchange for protection (that seems strange to us, for some reason), and prefer to rely on ourselves to protect our nation.⁵

(OOC: Rowan's addressing all the points, I just don't feel like translating this list response to a paragraph format :-)

1. They signed a contract, offering their services for your pay. You pay them for as long as they provide their services. They cease providing services, for whatever reason, you cease payment. This is not a difficult concept, Ambassador.

2. This only holds true if he is already in the field of battle. Even if his objection begins in the field of battle, he is of course free to defend himself until such a time that he may extricate himself from the situation. The COA does not stop a soldier, or any man, from defending himself. It states merely that your military cannot tell him who to kill, not that he can't kill at all.

3. Ignoring the slight, Who are you to decide who this man calls compatriot? It is not your place to decide who any man defends. If he does not wish to fight for his countrymen, that is his choice, and should remain his choice. Just because your government is threatened does not mean every citizen should be obliged to take up arms. They may not even support your government - they may support your enemy. Do you really want to annoy such a man further, and give him the weapons and training needed to fight you should he so choose?

4. I should hope so. Now if only we can get everyone else to agree to not attack anyone else...

5. "You misunderstand. We do not give aid in exchange for protection. We give aid because the Fae, Humans and Faeries alike, want to give aid. We like seeing that people are fed and sheltered, and live a prosperous and secure life." Rowan thinks back to her care-giver's blunt discussion with Ambassador Rodriguez in the bar^†. "We do not help people to earn favours with governments, Ambassador. We help people for the sake of helping people. Our security from aggressors is a happy side effect. Not a goal."

^† For those too lazy to read the exchange between Eireann Fae and Mesogiria, Mary Jane (Rowan's "mother", for all intents and purposes) offered to send aid to the subjugated Elves of Mesogiria. The woman was rather blunt about the Faeries' penchant for disregarding international law and sovereign borders to provide aid to the disadvantaged. Mary Jane likes to consider herself a friend to Kelly Rodriguez, but was not shy about telling her (in no uncertain terms) that the Faeries would help the Elves, whether the Human government of Mesogiria agreed to receive the aid or not. Clearly the Fae do not offer aid in exchange for protection - in some cases, they render aid at the risk of war ;)

[Krioval]

"And if a man would rather sleep in his bed and let an enemy tank roll over his house than to stand and fight with his nation, that's his fucking prerogative!"

So forceful. So inspired. So idiotic. Maybe this view works in fluffyland, where everything is gumdrops, unicorns, and eternal peace. But back in reality, individuals often have to concede some things to the collective, and in Krioval, this is done democratically while making every effort to accommodate minority views. That said, Kriovallers get vaccinated to provide herd immunity. They are required to attend a certain amount of schooling and career training to be productive. They work within their clans and tribes to empower those communities. And they fight in wars when it is necessary for the common defense when the situation calls for it.

It's not as if Krioval has a military just for the heck of it. The people want a strong economy, international trade, transportation networks, and internal stability. They routinely vote for such things, and in doing so, they realize that those things occasionally need to be defended, whether from foreign invaders or from crazy far-left radicals bent on undermining our position in the universe through overreaching international legislation.

Kriovallers understand on some level that, to enjoy the culture and prosperity that the Imperial Chiefdom has attained, that their number could theoretically come up. For those who actively make their position against this known, and who loudly decry our expansion and our international relations when force is needed, we do what we can to minimize the impact of our society and its decisions on them. They can take up a civilian support position when and if a war breaks out. For those who idly accept the benefits of our social and military policies, but suddenly object to serving due to "conscience", they deserve exactly what they get - which is typically a position in the home guard far away from any actual combat. But there is a definite risk that combat could be involved, and "wanting to stay in bed" while the Imperial Chiefdom is overrun is not their "fucking prerogative", especially if their newfound independence from Krioval is predicated on cowardice and vulgar self-interest. They are cordially invited to pick up a medkit, a weapon, or to make themselves permanently scarce, and to attempt to avoid a door-backside impact in their egress.

Finally, anybody who puts forth legislation in this Assembly that would reduce the defensive capabilities of the Imperial Chiefdom represents a direct and serious threat to our national defense. We will take any such threats very seriously and will summon any appropriate force as necessary to restore the integrity of our borders, our trade routes, and especially our people.

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

[Worvland]

Finally, anybody who puts forth legislation in this Assembly that would reduce the defensive capabilities of the Imperial Chiefdom represents a direct and serious threat to our national defense. We will take any such threats very seriously and will summon any appropriate force as necessary to restore the integrity of our borders, our trade routes, and especially our people.

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

I proposed that resolution sir, and I assure you that you are welcome in Worvland or Otrenia anytime. However, don't expect a great many new subjects to tax, I suggest you see the above Gandhi quote if you want a preview.

[Krioval]

I proposed that resolution sir, and I assure you that you are welcome in Worvland or Otrenia anytime. However, don't expect a great many new subjects to tax, I suggest you see the above Gandhi quote if you want a preview.

In that case, Excellency, a question. Why would you want to reduce the defensive capabilities of another, clearly neutral nation without provocation? I could see forbidding the sending of conscripts on a war of conquest. But in attempting to weaken the Imperial Home Guard, you are attempting to make us more vulnerable to those nations outside the purview of this Assembly, and therefore making a representative society less able to defend itself against the depredations of any number of violent and unhinged regimes. Why would you want to do this?

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

[Worvland]

I proposed that resolution sir, and I assure you that you are welcome in Worvland or Otrenia anytime. However, don't expect a great many new subjects to tax, I suggest you see the above Gandhi quote if you want a preview.

In that case, Excellency, a question. Why would you want to reduce the defensive capabilities of another, clearly neutral nation without provocation? I could see forbidding the sending of conscripts on a war of conquest. But in attempting to weaken the Imperial Home Guard, you are attempting to make us more vulnerable to those nations outside the purview of this Assembly, and therefore making a representative society less able to defend itself against the depredations of any number of violent and unhinged regimes. Why would you want to do this?

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

I am attempting to do my best for the people of the world. I consider widening a person's rights as an extremely laudable goal. I have not done anything to your army, you may still have one, you just may not force anyone to be a part of it. Conscription is, in my opinion, a form of slavery. These people have not been convicted of any crime, how can they justly be forced to do something against their will?