[PASSED] On Abortion

[The People of Belfast]

And that isn't how an unborn child is defined in my country. It is a person with human rights including the right to life. This law tramples over national soverignty just because of pro-Choice fascists such as yourself who won't allow individual nations to make up their own mind over an issue that shouldn't be on the international agenda anyway.

You neglect the fact that abortion will be very low in your country, unless there is an extremely high incidence of rape, incest or deformed children

I don't want it to be very low I want to eliminate it completely. I can understand a life saving procedure being the cause of the death of the child but all other ones aren't medical necessary. I don't want any unncessary abortions carried out in my country.

Crime in general is low in my country. It doesn't mean that I just decide to tolerate the crime that does happen.

[Eireann Fae]

"1. REQUIRES member countries to legalise abortion for cases where:
a) The pregnancy resulted from involuntary sexual activity and/or sexual activity in which at least one of the parties could not legally give consent;"

Someone under the age of consent cannot, by definition, legally give consent.
Incidentally, the "at least one party" doesn't even have to be the one who gets pregnant. If a woman has sex with an underage boy, she must be allowed an abortion.

"Excuse me," says Alexandra, rising from her seat and dusting some chronic flakes from her Black Panther-hide skirt. "Hi. The resolution, as you point out, legalises abortion when 'at least one of the parties could not legally give consent.'. I've noticed that a recurring theme over the past few pages concerns you and yours complaining that the resolution 'allows abortions for all minors from conception to birth', more or less. I'd just like to say that this is not the case, and to ask that you people stop promoting it as such."

"I have seen only fourteen summers pass, Ambassador, yet I could not acquire an abortion based solely upon my age and the existence of this resolution. I can legally give consent to engage in sexual behaviours - so can Rowan, for that matter," she says, gesturing to the younger Fae translator at her side. "If you do not want two fifteen year olds acquiring monthly abortions while fucking like rabbits, allow them to legally consent with each other. That way, they can only get an abortion under the other provisions of this resolution - where there's actual harm involved."

"Now," she continues, after a moment of thought, "I'm a little high at the moment, and can't remember if you're one of the ones thinking that abortion should not be allowed even in cases of rape - a rather disturbing viewpoint that takes up a little more of the minority than I'm comfortable with, by the way. If you support such abortions, then allowing your post-pubescent population to legally consent to each other makes it not-rape, and such adolescents would not be able to acquire an abortion on those grounds. If you oppose rape-abortions, then you're likely too radical to see eye-to-eye with Eireann Fae or the Minoans on this subject, anyway."

The girl takes her seat, and begins conversing quietly with Melöʃina - the lazy Faerie doesn't speak up as often as the Emissary, but at least she lets her 'staff' know when they do a good job. After a moment's consideration, young Rowan rises to address the Assembly for a moment. "For the record, we support this proposal. As it is written, one could get an abortion in Eireann Fae for any reason, from conception to birth. It doesn't really happen, but from a legal standpoint, we are pretty open on the subject. We do realise, however, that there are more... restrictive nations," she casts a quick glance towards the Ambassadors from Nulono and Belfast, "and wish to see their citizens afforded as many freedoms and as much comfort as possible."

(EDIT: Rowan doesn't use contractions ;-)

[St George of England]

You neglect the fact that abortion will be very low in your country, unless there is an extremely high incidence of rape, incest or deformed children

I don't want it to be very low I want to eliminate it completely. I can understand a life saving procedure being the cause of the death of the child but all other ones aren't medical necessary. I don't want any unncessary abortions carried out in my country.

Crime in general is low in my country. It doesn't mean that I just decide to tolerate the crime that does happen.

I gather you don't want rape in your country either? Your use of the flag of a the Republic Ireland suggests you are a Catholic. Will you be rounding up all the Catholic priests then?

Will you also gather up all the IRA terrorists that, if your nation is indeed Belfast (a proud British city), are around?

[The People of Belfast]

Eireann Fae,

Considering that we can legislate to decide when a person is of the legal age of consent, can we legislate as to what the definition of involuntary sexual activity is in our society, what the definition of severe foetal abnormality is in our society, and what the definition of a life-threatening physical or mental condition is in our society, thus rendering this law null and void?

[Parti Ouvrier]

What would you do if you were a woman?

Eat a lot of ice cream? And have a couple of days a month were I can bitch at people and get away with it?

Oh yes, of course. Clearly all women spend their whole lives eating ice cream. Women! they're all the same. (note the sarcasm
And since when is it a problem for women to get away with practising their freedom of expression?

[The People of Belfast]

I don't want it to be very low I want to eliminate it completely. I can understand a life saving procedure being the cause of the death of the child but all other ones aren't medical necessary. I don't want any unncessary abortions carried out in my country.

Crime in general is low in my country. It doesn't mean that I just decide to tolerate the crime that does happen.

I gather you don't want rape in your country either? Your use of the flag of a the Republic Ireland suggests you are a Catholic. Will you be rounding up all the Catholic priests then?

Will you also gather up all the IRA terrorists that, if your nation is indeed Belfast (a proud British city), are around?

Are you actually that much of a dick? Firstly a tiny minority of priests were involved in illegal activity. And yes those that were involved in the rape of anyone I would personally like to see them to be surgically castrated and imprisoned for life.

Secondly, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. I'll round up the IRA when you round up the SAS and the rest of the British Army.

And come to West Belfast and call Belfast British. We'll see how long you last.

[The People of Belfast]

Eat a lot of ice cream? And have a couple of days a month were I can bitch at people and get away with it?

Oh yes, of course. Clearly all women spend their whole lives eating ice cream. Women! they're all the same. (note the sarcasm
And since when is it a problem for women to get away with practising their freedom of expression?

Pst, Pst. [whisper]It was a joke[/whisper].

[St George of England]

I gather you don't want rape in your country either? Your use of the flag of a the Republic Ireland suggests you are a Catholic. Will you be rounding up all the Catholic priests then?

Will you also gather up all the IRA terrorists that, if your nation is indeed Belfast (a proud British city), are around?

Are you actually that much of a dick? Firstly a tiny minority of priests were involved in illegal activity. And yes those that were involved in the rape of anyone I would personally like to see them to be surgically castrated and imprisoned for life.

Secondly, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. I'll round up the IRA when you round up the SAS and the rest of the British Army.

And come to West Belfast and call Belfast British. We'll see how long you last.

Ah, the threats of violence cometh. Nice, standing up for your fellow murderers and terrorists.

[Nulono]

"1. REQUIRES member countries to legalise abortion for cases where:
a) The pregnancy resulted from involuntary sexual activity and/or sexual activity in which at least one of the parties could not legally give consent;"

Someone under the age of consent cannot, by definition, legally give consent.
Incidentally, the "at least one party" doesn't even have to be the one who gets pregnant. If a woman has sex with an underage boy, she must be allowed an abortion.

"Excuse me," says Alexandra, rising from her seat and dusting some chronic flakes from her Black Panther-hide skirt. "Hi. The resolution, as you point out, legalises abortion when 'at least one of the parties could not legally give consent.'. I've noticed that a recurring theme over the past few pages concerns you and yours complaining that the resolution 'allows abortions for all minors from conception to birth', more or less. I'd just like to say that this is not the case, and to ask that you people stop promoting it as such."

"I have seen only fourteen summers pass, Ambassador, yet I could not acquire an abortion based solely upon my age and the existence of this resolution. I can legally give consent to engage in sexual behaviours - so can Rowan, for that matter," she says, gesturing to the younger Fae translator at her side. "If you do not want two fifteen year olds acquiring monthly abortions while fucking like rabbits, allow them to legally consent with each other. That way, they can only get an abortion under the other provisions of this resolution - where there's actual harm involved."

"Now," she continues, after a moment of thought, "I'm a little high at the moment, and can't remember if you're one of the ones thinking that abortion should not be allowed even in cases of rape - a rather disturbing viewpoint that takes up a little more of the minority than I'm comfortable with, by the way. If you support such abortions, then allowing your post-pubescent population to legally consent to each other makes it not-rape, and such adolescents would not be able to acquire an abortion on those grounds. If you oppose rape-abortions, then you're likely too radical to see eye-to-eye with Eireann Fae or the Minoans on this subject, anyway."

The girl takes her seat, and begins conversing quietly with Melöʃina - the lazy Faerie doesn't speak up as often as the Emissary, but at least she lets her 'staff' know when they do a good job. After a moment's consideration, young Rowan rises to address the Assembly for a moment. "For the record, we support this proposal. As it is written, one could get an abortion in Eireann Fae for any reason, from conception to birth. It doesn't really happen, but from a legal standpoint, we are pretty open on the subject. We do realise, however, that there are more... restrictive nations," she casts a quick glance towards the Ambassadors from Nulono and Belfast, "and wish to see their citizens afforded as many freedoms and as much comfort as possible."

(EDIT: Rowan doesn't use contractions ;-)

"The USSN does not have an age of consent. We are concerned, however, about the unborn in less sexually liberal nations."

[The People of Belfast]

Are you actually that much of a dick? Firstly a tiny minority of priests were involved in illegal activity. And yes those that were involved in the rape of anyone I would personally like to see them to be surgically castrated and imprisoned for life.

Secondly, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. I'll round up the IRA when you round up the SAS and the rest of the British Army.

And come to West Belfast and call Belfast British. We'll see how long you last.

Ah, the threats of violence cometh. Nice, standing up for your fellow murderers and terrorists.

As undoubtedly you do yours.

[St George of England]

Ah, the threats of violence cometh. Nice, standing up for your fellow murderers and terrorists.

As undoubtedly you do yours.

Mine were protecting a territory where the majority of people wanted to remain apart of the Union.

Yours were trying to subvert a sovereign state with murder and terrorism.

[The People of Belfast]

As undoubtedly you do yours.

Mine were protecting a territory where the majority of people wanted to remain apart of the Union.

Yours were trying to subvert a sovereign state with murder and terrorism.

My people voted for independence and your army ignored it. When peaceful means don't work unpeaceful means will be used. Northern Ireland should never have existed in the first place. It was a brutal, evil sectarian regime imposed against the wishes of the people of Ireland.

[Eireann Fae]

Will you also gather up all the IRA terrorists that, if your nation is indeed Belfast (a proud British city), are around?

(OOC: Silly colonials, no? ;-)

Eireann Fae,

Considering that we can legislate to decide when a person is of the legal age of consent, can we legislate as to what the definition of involuntary sexual activity is in our society^[1], what the definition of severe foetal abnormality is in our society^[2], and what the definition of a life-threatening physical or mental condition is in our society^[3], thus rendering this law null and void?

Rowan rolls her eyes, but addresses the childish 'point' anyway. "First of all, 'age of consent' is a purely legal construct, Ambassador. Any nation may arbitrarily set a value to such a parameter as they will - it does not exist any other way. 'Involuntary sexual activity', however, is fairly well defined. You cannot arbitrarily change the definition of this term, or any other. You can set your own arbitrary Age of Consent with as many variables and alternative definitions as you care to come up with."

"Second of all, 'severe', 'foetal' and 'abnormality' are also well defined. Of these terms, 'severe' is the most subjective, however, I do not see anyone proclaiming a sixth finger or a missing toe to be a 'severe foetal abnormality'. And finally, again, 'life-threatening ... condition' is a definition, not a variable you can set in your own nation's legal parameters. 'Life' has a universal meaning, as does 'threatening'. You cannot re-define either term to suit your own totalitarian needs. You cannot redefine any term to suit your needs. Language is a tool to enable the communication of ideas, Ambassador. For us to all be able to communicate with one another, we must agree on the vocabulary used."

(OOC: Also, interpretation of the terms is not up to you, it is up to the 'gnomes'. They know what a foetal abnormality is, what a life-threatening condition is, and what involuntary sexual activity is. You do not decide these things for yourself.

Also, this isn't Éire vs. UK. Go to NSG for that type of talk.)

[The People of Belfast]

(OOC: Also, this isn't Éire vs. UK. Go to NSG for that type of talk.)

I didn't start it. He's the one who started the OOC attacks.

[CrossVegas]

I first want to say that I have not read thru the past 30+ pages so if the following has already been brought up, I do apologize...

The only problem I have with this proposal is its lack of defining what is a "living person," and the term "abortion."

When does a being begin "living?" At conception, 1st trimester, 2nd trimester, etc.?
Under the right, or wrong definition, "the morning after" pill could be a form of abortion. If it's used for purposes other than what is outlined in this proposal (if passed), could mean a murder sentence for the taker of the pill.

And what about the term "abortion" itself. Some people instantly define it as the killing of a living being.
If I kill someone on the street, I am a murderer. If I kill the enemy during a war, I am a hero. Either way, I have aborted a life.
Under the right, or wrong definition, the term "abortion" could place entire nations in jeopardy of breaking the law (if passed) during a war.

While I agree with what this proposal would do, I must vote against without the proper definitions being written in it.

[Sedgistan]

"1. REQUIRES member countries to legalise abortion for cases where:
a) The pregnancy resulted from involuntary sexual activity and/or sexual activity in which at least one of the parties could not legally give consent;"

Someone under the age of consent cannot, by definition, legally give consent.
Incidentally, the "at least one party" doesn't even have to be the one who gets pregnant. If a woman has sex with an underage boy, she must be allowed an abortion.

"Excuse me," says Alexandra, rising from her seat and dusting some chronic flakes from her Black Panther-hide skirt. "Hi. The resolution, as you point out, legalises abortion when 'at least one of the parties could not legally give consent.'. I've noticed that a recurring theme over the past few pages concerns you and yours complaining that the resolution 'allows abortions for all minors from conception to birth', more or less. I'd just like to say that this is not the case, and to ask that you people stop promoting it as such."

"I have seen only fourteen summers pass, Ambassador, yet I could not acquire an abortion based solely upon my age and the existence of this resolution. I can legally give consent to engage in sexual behaviours - so can Rowan, for that matter," she says, gesturing to the younger Fae translator at her side. "If you do not want two fifteen year olds acquiring monthly abortions while fucking like rabbits, allow them to legally consent with each other. That way, they can only get an abortion under the other provisions of this resolution - where there's actual harm involved."

"Now," she continues, after a moment of thought, "I'm a little high at the moment, and can't remember if you're one of the ones thinking that abortion should not be allowed even in cases of rape - a rather disturbing viewpoint that takes up a little more of the minority than I'm comfortable with, by the way. If you support such abortions, then allowing your post-pubescent population to legally consent to each other makes it not-rape, and such adolescents would not be able to acquire an abortion on those grounds. If you oppose rape-abortions, then you're likely too radical to see eye-to-eye with Eireann Fae or the Minoans on this subject, anyway."

The girl takes her seat, and begins conversing quietly with Melöʃina - the lazy Faerie doesn't speak up as often as the Emissary, but at least she lets her 'staff' know when they do a good job. After a moment's consideration, young Rowan rises to address the Assembly for a moment. "For the record, we support this proposal. As it is written, one could get an abortion in Eireann Fae for any reason, from conception to birth. It doesn't really happen, but from a legal standpoint, we are pretty open on the subject. We do realise, however, that there are more... restrictive nations," she casts a quick glance towards the Ambassadors from Nulono and Belfast, "and wish to see their citizens afforded as many freedoms and as much comfort as possible."

(EDIT: Rowan doesn't use contractions ;-)

We aprreciate Ambassador Alexandra for her interesting points made.
Spokesperson on behalf of Parti Ouvrier.

[Port-du-sud]

a) The pregnancy resulted from involuntary sexual activity and/or sexual activity in which at least one of the parties could not legally give consent;

Port-du-sud voted AGAINST this resolution because it's not a sufficient reason for an abortion.
A pregnancy dangerous for the mother is a sufficient reason and the SINGLE valid reason to justify an abortion in Port-du-sud.

The vote's outcome doesn't worry us because we have in Port-du-sud a specific medical system to prevent abuses.

[Parti Ouvrier]

As undoubtedly you do yours.

Mine were protecting a territory where the majority of people wanted to remain apart of the Union.

Yours were trying to subvert a sovereign state with murder and terrorism.

Idiot! Stick to the subject, your prejudices are in plain view for all to see.

[Kryozerkia]

Mine were protecting a territory where the majority of people wanted to remain apart of the Union.

Yours were trying to subvert a sovereign state with murder and terrorism.

Idiot! Stick to the subject, your prejudices are in plain view for all to see.

The Secretariat is not adverse to calling in the guards to have ambassadors escorted out if they cannot display a modicum of respect for their fellow delegates. Such language is not tolerated in these halls.

[Nulono]

Secretary of the Treasury Cde. Melissa Harrison steps forward.

"Three dozen and five years ago, before the revolution, my mother was in debt. She was young at the time, and the only employment option available was as a gnarth (a girl or young woman used for breeding purposes) for the aristocracy. The sexual intercourse by which this is carried out, as can be imagined, is often not consentual. It was under this arrangement that I was conceived. Under this resolution, my rights as a human being and as a citizen of the United Socialist States of Nulono would have been utterly negated until the age of three dozen and seven weeks. I strongly urge member states to vote against this resolution, and was glad to hear that the USSN has voted against this, pardon my French, piece of merde."

[Parti Ouvrier]

Idiot! Stick to the subject, your prejudices are in plain view for all to see.

The Secretariat is not adverse to calling in the guards to have ambassadors escorted out if they cannot display a modicum of respect for their fellow delegates. Such language is not tolerated in these halls.

Noted Mr speaker?

[Urgench]

Someone under the age of consent cannot, by definition, legally give consent.

Not in all countries your Excellency.


Yours,

[Nulono]

age of consent 
–noun
the age at which a person becomes legally competent to consent to marriage or sexual intercourse.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... %20consent

[Urgench]

age of consent 
–noun
the age at which a person becomes legally competent to consent to marriage or sexual intercourse.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... %20consent

Your Excellency is using worthless dictionaries again. Besides we are not here to tutor your Excellency out of your ignorance of comparative law.


Yours,

[Parti Ouvrier]

I first want to say that I have not read thru the past 30+ pages so if the following has already been brought up, I do apologize...

The only problem I have with this proposal is its lack of defining what is a "living person," and the term "abortion."

When does a being begin "living?" At conception, 1st trimester, 2nd trimester, etc.?
Under the right, or wrong definition, "the morning after" pill could be a form of abortion. If it's used for purposes other than what is outlined in this proposal (if passed), could mean a murder sentence for the taker of the pill.

And what about the term "abortion" itself. Some people instantly define it as the killing of a living being.
If I kill someone on the street, I am a murderer. If I kill the enemy during a war, I am a hero. Either way, I have aborted a life.
Under the right, or wrong definition, the term "abortion" could place entire nations in jeopardy of breaking the law (if passed) during a war.

While I agree with what this proposal would do, I must vote against without the proper definitions being written in it.

Should someone decide to 'kill' this debate, would that make them a murderer?