PASSED: Condemn NAZI EUROPE

[Meldaria]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=7656&f=24&view=unread#unread

We cannot condemn for their beliefs. It is not democratic to do that. We cannot enforce our beliefs on them. And as long as they do not force there beliefs on anyone else. We should not act. And I say this as a Jew myself.

Sincerely,
The Republic of Epicnopolis; it's president, and it's people.

But surely after the destruction of The Alliance of Bolshevik State makes them worthy of condemnation.

Agreed. Now, they may not have physically done any segregating yet (to our knowledge), however if they openly call themselves Nazi's, and state that they support the Nazi belief- then they also openly state their policies of racism, hate, intolerance, and willingness to use violence against minorities. You can not say that their are no gays, Jews, blacks, or any other group that Nazi's may show distaste towards, that live in Europe. Plenty of these people have homes in Europe- if Europe is controlled by Nazi's then these minorities will become subject to a revival of holocausts. This is unacceptable.

I suggest invasion of Nazi Europe. The Alliance of Bolshevik State was a glorious region and it pains me to see it go. We must stop them before they attack more of us.

[The Great Lord Tiger]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=7656&f=24&view=unread#unread

We cannot condemn for their beliefs. It is not democratic to do that. We cannot enforce our beliefs on them. And as long as they do not force there beliefs on anyone else. We should not act. And I say this as a Jew myself.

Sincerely,
The Republic of Epicnopolis; it's president, and it's people.

But surely after the destruction of The Alliance of Bolshevik State makes them worthy of condemnation.

Agreed. Now, they may not have physically done any segregating yet (to our knowledge), however if they openly call themselves Nazi's, and state that they support the Nazi belief- then they also openly state their policies of racism, hate, intolerance, and willingness to use violence against minorities. You can not say that their are no gays, Jews, blacks, or any other group that Nazi's may show distaste towards, that live in Europe. Plenty of these people have homes in Europe- if Europe is controlled by Nazi's then these minorities will become subject to a revival of holocausts. This is unacceptable.

Well, considering one of the nations has the 'substandard' (that is what Nazism suggests, that there is a better race/person/being) beings being zombies, and another is a nation of bears which considers the humans to be inferior... you're presuming that Nazism = racism, or antisemitism.

And have you seen a NS map? How many nations are in 'Europe'? How many of them are FT, with not-normal populations? Don't make me laugh.

[Strikertaria]

GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION # 30
Freedom of Expression

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: Furtherment of Democracy


Strength: Mild


Proposed by: FlagOmigodtheykilledkenny

Description: Assured that freedom of expression is an essential human right deserving of international protection;

Determined that no one should have to put their lives, families, liberty or property at risk for expressing honest dissent with, otherwise criticizing or even satirizing their leaders, governments, societies, churches or any other institutions of established power;

Chastened by the sacrifices already made by prisoners and victims of conscience throughout the world;

Nonetheless convinced that free expression does not extend to such abuses as defamation, incitements to disorder, or academic fraud;

Agreed that for purposes of this resolution defamation is defined as the use of knowingly false information, or the raising of such with reckless disregard for its truthfulness, in a deliberate attempt to impugn the character or reputation of any individual, group or organization, excepting government institutions or political leaders,

Be it therefore resolved that the World Assembly:

Affirms the right of all people to express their personal, moral, political, cultural, religious and ideological views freely and openly, without fear of reprisal;

Requires member states to respect and uphold this right in all available media to all individuals under their jurisdiction;

Expects member states to enforce this right fairly and equitably in the application of national laws;

Allows member states to set reasonable restrictions on expression in order to prevent defamation, as well as plagiarism, copyright or trademark infringement, and other forms of academic fraud; incitements to widespread lawlessness and disorder, or violence against any individual, group or organization; the unauthorized disclosure of highly classified government information; the unauthorized disclosure of strictly confidential personal information; and blatant, explicit and offensive pornographic materials;

Forbids member states from abusing these restrictions in an effort to stifle free expression among law-abiding citizens.

Votes For: 3,225
Votes Against: 992

Implemented: Thu Jan 1 2009

Period.

If we decide to condem Nazi Europe just because of their ideals, we need to do that to every political party. Otherwise, we are takeing a single party and saying they can not believe what they want.

The sad thing is, people will pass this because the word "Nazi" is considered tabooed by people becasue of WWII. However, unless they do something against the laws, you can not just condemn people from believing something and using freedom of speech to express it.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

And for the GA resolution, it totally applies here, because one of the motives of the condemnation is to stop the spreading of this ideology. Besides, regions are made of nations, nations are made of people, so regions are affected by resolution like this.

Buzz. Wrong again. GA resolutions, according to the game, "take effect in all WA member nations" -- that was part of the contract you signed when you joined this organization. Therefore, only people who fall under member nations' jurisdictions are legally protected. Does that include regions, or players who control the nations/regions? No, of course not.

That some players cannot make the distinction between gameplay and roleplay, or IC and OOC, has always been a minor issue on the WA forum. But now with the advent of the anything-goes Security Council, the problem seems to have metastasized to the point that even players like Glen-Rhodes, who really ought to know better, are confused. Be assured that in order to correct this problem, the repeal of Freedom of Expression will be introduced in relatively short order.

[New Xania]

I support for Daynor has said and wish only to add a word which every Nazi in Europe would do well to know. "Dresden".

You mean the city that all the German refugees had flocked to, and which the Allied them bombed to the ground, killing hundreds or thousands of innocent people, whose government said killers didn't like?

OOC: Ah yes, the city where the allies committed what is seen to day as a highly debatable war crime. Then again, that war crime would only add to the list of war crimes committed by allies (which include execution of prisoners, doing the same unrestricted submarine warfare that they charged Admiral Karl Donitz with, and massive attacks on non-military targets with the desire to kill civilians and lower their moral. It is a subject that I know have little place on this thread, but one I have a trouble with keeping quiet about as it appears so few realize that in war, horrible acts are committed on both sides. The 'hero's or victors are not usually as clean as they portray themselves as.

OOC:War crime? Cut off your enemies supply of soldiers is more like it. Kill their workers. Unrestricted submarine warfare should never have been a crime by either side. Attacks on non-military targets are fair game, not crimes. Let's face it, given the way the germans were arming civilians in the last part of the war had we not bombed that city into a nice funeral pyre it might've been the source of thousands of people trying to off our soldiers.

(In Context)All that said Dag makes a point in that capitolism in real life is just like capitolism in the game. Communism in real life becomes like communism in the game. Hence here is what I request from Nazi Europe. I want you to make a public statement that you will accept people into your region no matter what race or religion they are with no problems so long as they do not flame you or spam you in any way. I believe that this will be enough to convince every reasonable nation that you are not what everyone automatically assumes you are. It would even get me to vote against the condemnation. I'll even go so far as to say that if you made that announcement and promised to stand by it I would apologize for my attitude towards your region.

[The Great Lord Tiger]

You mean the city that all the German refugees had flocked to, and which the Allied them bombed to the ground, killing hundreds or thousands of innocent people, whose government said killers didn't like?

OOC: Ah yes, the city where the allies committed what is seen to day as a highly debatable war crime. Then again, that war crime would only add to the list of war crimes committed by allies (which include execution of prisoners, doing the same unrestricted submarine warfare that they charged Admiral Karl Donitz with, and massive attacks on non-military targets with the desire to kill civilians and lower their moral. It is a subject that I know have little place on this thread, but one I have a trouble with keeping quiet about as it appears so few realize that in war, horrible acts are committed on both sides. The 'hero's or victors are not usually as clean as they portray themselves as.

OOC:War crime? Cut off your enemies supply of soldiers is more like it. Kill their workers. Unrestricted submarine warfare should never have been a crime by either side. Attacks on non-military targets are fair game, not crimes. Let's face it, given the way the germans were arming civilians in the last part of the war had we not bombed that city into a nice funeral pyre it might've been the source of thousands of people trying to off our soldiers.

(In Context)All that said Dag makes a point in that capitolism in real life is just like capitolism in the game. Communism in real life becomes like communism in the game. Hence here is what I request from Nazi Europe. I want you to make a public statement that you will accept people into your region no matter what race or religion they are with no problems so long as they do not flame you or spam you in any way. I believe that this will be enough to convince every reasonable nation that you are not what everyone automatically assumes you are. It would even get me to vote against the condemnation. I'll even go so far as to say that if you made that announcement and promised to stand by it I would apologize for my attitude towards your region.

So why should Communist regions be allowed to maintain their selective socialist membership? Or Capitalist regions?

It is unfair that they should have to change their inoffensive policies (that is, only accepting NS nations who ICly are Nazis/fascists) to suit your whims and fancies.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

My fellow members of the Security Council:

As delegate of my region, The Franco Spanish Empire, I will say this: although Nazism is a horrendous political ideology, to condemn a nation or region for professing it is akin to condemning freedom of speech to all member nations and regions. Hate speech, yes, but still a right that needs to be protected, wether we agree with it or not. We cannot condemn the region of Nazi Europe, if we do, we're no better than the Nazi themselves. We must strive to be better at this. Don't condemn the region, I beseech you all.

Sincerely,
The Spanish Inquisition of Nanatsu no Tsuki

[Charlotte Ryberg]

The latest SC resolution is Condemn NAZI EUROPE which was passed 3,412 votes to 1,924.

[TannerFrankLand]

Thank you everyone.

*Wonders to himself if this means the telegrams will stop*

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Thank you everyone.

*Wonders to himself if this means the telegrams will stop*

I hope so, honoured ambassador. This was probably the most difficult resolution I have to decide upon.

[TannerFrankLand]

Well it's been different for me. I got more telegrams for this resolution (some praising, some flaming me) than I ever did with my UN proposals. I'm not sure if that is only a SC thing, but it was crazy.

Now, lets repeal this.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

The sub surfaces next to Mongkha's rubber dingy, which is still being rowed in circles by the hapless Tarmshirin of Herat. General Arororugul and Mongkha exit the small conning tower and stand upon the deck surveying the scene around them. Lake Security Council is crowded with assorted improvised vessels and flotation devices which have been hurriedly assembled by the various delegations to avoid drowning in the still rising waters.

Unbeknownst to Mongkha and Arororugul, their conference was being watched, from the moment Arororugul had begun to speak, to the moment that Mongkha joined him on the submarine, even after they had submerged, their presence nary escaped the wary gaze of the irrepressible Susa Batko-Yovino. He'd been observing them from a motorized dingy (which he had presumably stolen from someone else's boat), and he knew they were up to something. He had seen the dude from Aundotootenar-- Aundotootenanny-- Aundotittytwister-- er, igloo-boy's blasphemous rants in favor of "Nazis" (which in Xt'Tap slang was just another word for "Kennyites"), and the way he went on and on about how great they must be...Susa never knew anyone was capable of such evil. And that sneaky Urgenchi guy seemed to agree that Nazis had the right to exist! Of course, Susa was already aware of the Urgenchis' evil, but to so openly consort with igloo-boy...that was incredibly brazen. The young diplomat wisely deduced that they must be plotting against him, and his only chance to get them both would come once the sub came back above water.

He was ready for them when they surfaced. He pulled out his crucifix and kissed it, pulled on his life vest (which in Xt'Tap communities was always equipped with explosives, in case of emergencies such as this), aimed his inflatable watercraft at the submarine, and started speeding toward them, cackling madly, and shouting, "ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! AAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!"--

Of course, the motor had broken down, so it took at least 10 minutes for the drafting dingy reach them, Susa shouting and cackling the whole way.

Finally he bumped up against the sub, and clicked the detonator--


Susa awoke with a cascade of icy water splashing on his face.

"Get up!" commanded a female voice.

Groggily the Xt'Tap sat up on his cot. "Oh," he groaned as he rubbed his eyes, "I had the most wonderful dream where I killed everyone!"

He turned to his right and found the angry visage of Commander Chiang glaring at him from behind iron bars. She scowled at him and in a fit of rage, opened his cell, lifted him from his bed, and slammed him against the wall.

"Well, now you're killing me," she snarled, "lazily snoring the morning away, with no consideration for how horny I am!" She grabbed the back of his head and swallowed the his tongue.

Momentarily Susa's lips broke free from the commander's, long enough to ask, "Are you still gonna torture me for information?"

"Yes," Chiang sighed, "but for convenience's sake we'll do it in one of the conjugal visit trailers." And the two of them resumed indulging their lustful desires.

[TannerFrankLand]

For the record, as this should be known before the repeal is made:

I'm the author of Condemn NAZI EUROPE, if you didn't know.

I am ... err... was ... a member of a region that had ... err ... various disputes with the victim of this proposal. And now that I'm no longer connected to them ... I can oppose this resolution. I of course had ... other motives ... than the ones in that proposal, that's why it was so short, as I couldn't explain WHY I wanted them condemned... I know it’s horrible but that’s why I used a puppet to propose it. IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL, but also not exactly 'right'. Sorry.

Further, the regions which I was connected to, and my true identity will never be known, so don’t waste time asking.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

So, you wasted four days of the WA's voting time to troll... that's marvelous.

[Xilcoatl]

It's a game for god's sake what does it matter if a in-game state supports Nazism? they're not hurting anyone, besides many countries in this game are dictatorships which in the real world would receive worldwide condemnation, so why only condemn a Nazi state, why not condemn all nations who have a dictatorship, anarchy, 100% tax rates, etc.

[The Palentine]

Well it's been different for me. I got more telegrams for this resolution (some praising, some flaming me) than I ever did with my UN proposals. I'm not sure if that is only a SC thing, but it was crazy.

Now, lets repeal this.

Sweet flaming A**crackers! You waste four days of our lives with this piece of shit condemnation, and now you want us to repeal it?
That takes a lot of guts, Spanky!

[Charlotte Ryberg]

It's a game for god's sake what does it matter if a in-game state supports Nazism? they're not hurting anyone, besides many countries in this game are dictatorships which in the real world would receive worldwide condemnation, so why only condemn a Nazi state, why not condemn all nations who have a dictatorship, anarchy, 100% tax rates, etc.

Honoured ambassador: The ratings (in order) World Benchmark, Frightening and World Benchmark is classed as an Anarchy too.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

For the record, as this should be known before the repeal is made:

I'm the author of Condemn NAZI EUROPE, if you didn't know.

I am ... err... was ... a member of a region that had ... err ... various disputes with the victim of this proposal. And now that I'm no longer connected to them ... I can oppose this resolution. I of course had ... other motives ... than the ones in that proposal, that's why it was so short, as I couldn't explain WHY I wanted them condemned... I know it’s horrible but that’s why I used a puppet to propose it. IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL, but also not exactly 'right'. Sorry.

Further, the regions which I was connected to, and my true identity will never be known, so don’t waste time asking.

And this is just the sort of asinine, juvenile bullshit that I imagined happening when these C&Cs were introduced. Wanna troll someone you don't like? Condemn 'em. Wanna slap one of your buddies on the back for some OOC crap that has nothing to do with the game? Commend 'em.

Out-fucking-standing.

[The Great Lord Tiger]

For the record, as this should be known before the repeal is made:

I'm the author of Condemn NAZI EUROPE, if you didn't know.

I am ... err... was ... a member of a region that had ... err ... various disputes with the victim of this proposal. And now that I'm no longer connected to them ... I can oppose this resolution. I of course had ... other motives ... than the ones in that proposal, that's why it was so short, as I couldn't explain WHY I wanted them condemned... I know it’s horrible but that’s why I used a puppet to propose it. IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL, but also not exactly 'right'. Sorry.

Further, the regions which I was connected to, and my true identity will never be known, so don’t waste time asking.

And this is just the sort of asinine, juvenile bullshit that I imagined happening when these C&Cs were introduced. Wanna troll someone you don't like? Condemn 'em. Wanna slap one of your buddies on the back for some OOC crap that has nothing to do with the game? Commend 'em.

Out-fucking-standing.

This.

To be honest, you (TFL) have been bitching about "I'M GETTING ALL THESE NEGATIVE TELEGRAMS I'M GONNA LEAVE UNTIL THIS IS OVER :'(" ever since this atrocity reached quorum.

Well... you kinda deserved them, given the... 'circumstances'

[Lansley]

"I can't see why we're all bothering to have this big argument anyway" Lord Chancellor Westbury muttered past his pipe.
"Hmm, why so?' Grand Duke Stancliffe asked from the arm chair next to him
"Well, your grace, that whole Nazi riff raff weren't cleared up through diplomatic means. By golly, it took us 6 years of solid fighting to do that!"
Stancliffe pondered for a moment "Yes, yes. I suppose your right, and perhaps we need to do what we did last time. I think it's time we replaced 'condemn' with Bombard!"

[Yelda]

For the record, as this should be known before the repeal is made:

I'm the author of Condemn NAZI EUROPE, if you didn't know.

I am ... err... was ... a member of a region that had ... err ... various disputes with the victim of this proposal. And now that I'm no longer connected to them ... I can oppose this resolution. I of course had ... other motives ... than the ones in that proposal, that's why it was so short, as I couldn't explain WHY I wanted them condemned... I know it’s horrible but that’s why I used a puppet to propose it. IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL, but also not exactly 'right'. Sorry.

Further, the regions which I was connected to, and my true identity will never be known, so don’t waste time asking.

And this is just the sort of asinine, juvenile bullshit that I imagined happening when these C&Cs were introduced. Wanna troll someone you don't like? Condemn 'em. Wanna slap one of your buddies on the back for some OOC crap that has nothing to do with the game? Commend 'em.

Out-fucking-standing.

For the record, I'm Mad Sheep Railgun and I stand behind my assessment of this fiasco. What a fucking abortion this whole thing has been. I hope those responsible for unleashing these C&Cs on the world are pleased with their new game feature.

[Scarsaw]

To be honest TannerFrankLand, the fact that you submitted this condemnation over something petty and now want to repel it tempts me to propose you for condemnation. You abused the condemnation system and wasted the time of the SC, which is more damage to in NS then NE ever did.

[Community Property]

Tom the Janitor pries the empty hip flask of Wild Turkey from Ambassador Jackson's hand, places it in the wicker basket tastefully decorated with the word "Recycle" hanging from a hemp cord about his waist, pats the inebriated diplomat on the shoulder, and then leans towards the ambassador's microphone.

"The People's Republic of Community Property thanks the Security Council for this opportunity to indulge its desire to cast a completely political vote without any need to be concerned about messy consequences. The folks back home are thrilled that we have gone down on record as opposing Nazism, and without the need to change anybody's life in the slightest. The Nazis get a pretty little gong on the Regional Display that makes them look like Genuine Bad Boys™ and will certain aid them in recruiting, and we all get the warm fuzzy feeling that something was accomplished. Well, all except a few stodgy farts who insist that this body's resolutions be proper and relevant - but there's really no satisfying them anyway.

"We look forward to the repeal proposal as an equally restful opportunity to goof off while looking busy on the public dime, and fervently hope for its passage in order that we can do this all again in the future. Repeatedly, in fact. Naturally, we will be voting in the same mindless, blinkered way as we did this time around. But this is, after all, the World Assembly."

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

Hey I've got an idea! How about a new resolution type that allows the customizable fields to be permanently altered? That way if you get mad at someone and want to troll or flame them you could pass a resolution changing (for instance) their pre-title from "The Republic of #whatever" to "The Jackass of #whatever". Or the resolution could permanently change their motto to "I r a n00b", or something.

OoH, ooh! Or how about this: A resolution to permanently alter the WFE? The WA could mandate via resolution what color the text is and what it says. If it contained a bunch of mean Nazi stuff the WA could change it to talk about good things. Hey that would be swell, huh?

edit: Damn I'm on a roll! How about a "Disband" resolution type that just shuts down a region and sends everyone in it to the Rejected Realms? Then every time someone visits that region's page all they see is a big DISBANDED logo and "We don't like them. They're not here anymore. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!1!!". Could be done, just a simple matter of coding. Whaddya' think?

[Georgetpwn]

response to that:


they should have let that mad sheep railgun proposal pass. that one would make more sense