(PASSED) Repeal SC#19 - Commend Antarctic Oasis

[Enn]

I'm not an AOer, Urgench is not located in the Antarctic Oasis region and never has been, in fact I do not even have a puppet there. I do count AOers among some of my NS friends and I think highly of most of them, and do use there offsite but can you please not use me as some kind of example with which to trump Yelda, or Krioval or whichever AOer it is you happen to be trying to misrepresent or otherwise annoy on this occasion.

Right. But out of curiosity, who is Zarquon Froods then? He seems to be the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums, and yet both Urgench and ZF are in the WA.

... what?

Zarquon Froods is Zarquon Froods. Not Urgench. Why the heck would you just assume that people are the same?

[Wanjestay]

"Repeal "Commend Antarctic Oasis"" was passed 3,268 votes to 1,055.

...But the badge is still there! O_o

Eduard stood up from his chair, in a display of angry, to point and outcry. "OH, THE TYRANNY!", which ignited a barrage of flaming pies and arrows.

Heir -- looking to avoid the chaos -- grabbed onto an invisible anteater, riding it like a horse, as it rode him under a maze of desks, and indiscriminately through "no man/bear's land" in pursuit of ants.

The remaining Unibotian delegation, protected with a barricade of desks and office printers, fired 1,000 rounds per minute with their bulky, oversized marsh-mellow cannons into the other delegations' territory. Flaming Marsh-mellow projectiles the size of beach-balls were breaking desks into halves and embedding their marshmallow-drench victims into the drywall.

Heir Industries had decided it was time to subsidize the pandemonium of the World Assembly.

EDIT: Debate is over, right?

Protecting the Unibotian flank, Wanjestay's delegates also let rip with their weapons, gummy-bear firing machine guns. The delegate armed himself with a gumball firing sniper rifle and started picking off anybody that entered range.

[Urgench]

I'm not an AOer, Urgench is not located in the Antarctic Oasis region and never has been, in fact I do not even have a puppet there. I do count AOers among some of my NS friends and I think highly of most of them, and do use there offsite but can you please not use me as some kind of example with which to trump Yelda, or Krioval or whichever AOer it is you happen to be trying to misrepresent or otherwise annoy on this occasion.

Right. But out of curiosity, who is Zarquon Froods then? He seems to be the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums, and yet both Urgench and ZF are in the WA.

I'm sure Zarquon would be highly disturbed to know that you think he's "the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums", and if he is (and frankly you couldn't have picked a more diametrically different player to me) it has nothing to do with me. Zarquon is a great guy but he's definitely not me.

In any case I already made it clear that I use AO's forums, I'm just not a member of their region. They haven't revoked my parking privileges yet so I'm taking full advantage.

[Zarquon Froods]

Right. But out of curiosity, who is Zarquon Froods then? He seems to be the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums, and yet both Urgench and ZF are in the WA.

Who I am is of no concern of yours, and I don't like what you're driving at.

[Urgench]

Right. But out of curiosity, who is Zarquon Froods then? He seems to be the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums, and yet both Urgench and ZF are in the WA.

Who I am is of no concern of yours, and I don't like what you're driving at.

I don't like it either Zarquon, because he's accusing me (or perhaps you) of being a WA multiyer.

[Retired WerePenguins]

I would urge you to re-consider your vote, Enn. The removal of the regional Commendation, especially as it comes so close to NaNowriMo month is exceptionally dangerous. It could have reprocussions.

I have no idea what they would be, but I'm sure something will happen, even if only at the Stranger's Bar.

• 11 hours ago: Retired WerePenguins relocated from Lazarus to Antarctic Oasis.

The sleeper as awakened. Flash Blonde has been set upon the world.

[Ardchoille]

Right. But out of curiosity, who is Zarquon Froods then? He seems to be the Urgenchi influence on the AO forums, and yet both Urgench and ZF are in the WA.

Let's stop this right here, please.

I was going to comment on this subject anyway, because there have been two occasions in this thread that have implicitly asked for mod response on assumed puppet use.

Different communities put different emphasis on puppetry. In the WA, it is important to expose when puppet-wanking is being used to increase the apparent support for or opposition to a proposal.

However, that's best done by notifying a mod. If it's confirmed, then we will point it out, usually with a note that it's going on and that the apparent support for the proposal should be seen as (whatever number) less than speakers would indicate. We identify the main and the puppets only as a last resort if the player involved refuses to stop.

Where unrelated RP happens -- such as the food fight here -- puppets may appear and disappear unchecked. Otherwise, players should post with the same nation throughout a single thread, or until the vote is over. If you forget you were logged in as the wrong nation and post, unless your puppet is widely known to be yours you should edit the post to identify it.

WA multi-ing is rulebreaking and offenders get no breaks. If a WA multi is operating two or more nations in a thread, report it. The player can expect to find them all suddenly becoming ex-WA-nations and to have their deceit exposed.

However, both questions -- WA membership and numbers puppetry -- are "put your money where your mouth is" queries. If you are genuinely concerned, you will submit a confidential GHR. If you don't, and are publicly making such observations idly, to annoy, or to gain an advantage, it can be seen as flamebait/trolling, depending on how it's directed.

Since apparently I now need to publicly confirm, from the information available to mods, that Urgench and Zarquon Froods are not the same player, I readily do so. Unibot, this is not a formal warning, but note that I shouldn't have had to do that. Next time, use the resources.

[Zarquon Froods]

The sleeper as awakened. Flash Blonde has been set upon the world.

It's about time. Welcome back old friend.

[Darkesia]

Begging your pardon, Ard. I don't think inspiring such ideas that prominent (and perhaps even average)players don't get away with multi-ing is very honest. Not only that, there are devious and destructive ways of using puppets in-game that are beyond the scope of posting long tirades here in this forum. You know as well as I that these things don't get reported for two very good reasons.

1) If the player is smart (as 90% of NS players are) and gives attention to detail, there is no "proof" in-game.
2) These things are often the source of fantastic game play, so no matter how irritating it is that <insert prominent name> is getting away with it, the alternative is even slower game play.

[Ardchoille]

I didn't say, "Nobody gets away with WA multi-ing". I said, "If you know about it, report it." It's rulebreaking, it's cheating, and for the benefit of those honest folk who play the game by the rules it should be stopped wherever possible.

And I say this as one who'd figured out how to load dice by the time I was four. But I grew out of it.

[A mean old man]

1) If the player is smart (as 90% of NS players are) and gives attention to detail . . .

I assume you're omitting the lemmings by default when you make this statement...

[Metania]

That badge is still there! Is the system busted or something?

[Kalibarr]

That badge is still there! Is the system busted or something?

It was all the pie, it's jammed everything up

[Sedgistan]

That badge is still there! Is the system busted or something?

Every single repealed SC resolution has failed to remove the badge automatically. I think I've ended up reporting them all in Techical.

[Darkesia]

1) If the player is smart (as 90% of NS players are) and gives attention to detail . . .

I assume you're omitting the lemmings by default when you make this statement...

LOL

"Lemmings" aren't stupid, dear. They just don't really give a hoot about the content of a resolution and vote where it is politically expedient or necessary for them to do so.

[A mean old man]

I assume you're omitting the lemmings by default when you make this statement...

LOL

"Lemmings" aren't stupid, dear. They just don't really give a hoot about the content of a resolution and vote where it is politically expedient or necessary for them to do so.

I can't say they're necessarily all that "smart," nor do they give much attention to detail. I'm also not so sure they use any sort of active thought processes when voting other than "do I like the title?" or "are there more votes FOR or AGAINST the resolution?" It's not necessarily a political or obligational sort of thing. They seem to have more superficial, simple mindsets similar to those of birds who pick up shiny, visually pleasing things and eat them.

[Darkesia]

Ah, now you are attributing qualities I assigned to those capable of multi-ing and not getting in trouble for it (attention to detail combined with intelligence,) with those who are simply a smarter cross section of the general population (NS players generally.)

Face it. One cannot be an idiot and remain interested in NS for very long.

I do understand that it's fun for people here in the WA to make rude comments about one anothers mental faculties when/if the vote does not go as one might think it should. But just because you repeat over and over that it "seems" like they aren't bright does not make it so. It does, however contribute to the general atmosphere of the WA in a predictable manner.

[A mean old man]

Ah, now you are attributing qualities I assigned to those capable of multi-ing and not getting in trouble for it (attention to detail combined with intelligence,) with those who are simply a smarter cross section of the general population (NS players generally.)

Face it. One cannot be an idiot and remain interested in NS for very long.

Exactly! This is why we're constantly forced to recruit new WA members to replace the ones who are constantly CTE-ing in our regions; the many "old" lemmings grow bored with a game that they don't understand and cease to exist, and hundreds of new lemmings are born, only to last for a few months and contribute nothing to the world but a vote FOR or AGAINST resolutions based on whichever option has the most support (or whether the resolution has a pretty title or not) and a speck of WA influence in whichever region manages to grab hold of them first.

How you can believe such creatures are "a smarter cross-section of the general population" is beyond me; they don't even appear to have the capability to speak. Some can speak, though only very briefly and often completely superficially. Usually they are only vocal in response to a recruitment telegram or when they move to a new region, and yet many of them remain silent even under such circumstances. I've devised a theory that these lemmings a very much like parrots, who can accomplish simple tasks using simple reasoning and mimic the vocal activity of superior beasts.

I do understand that it's fun for people here in the WA to make rude comments about one anothers mental faculties when/if the vote does not go as one might think it should. But just because you repeat over and over that it "seems" like they aren't bright does not make it so. It does, however contribute to the general atmosphere of the WA in a predictable manner.

Well, perhaps, if these bright lemmings are insulted by my assumptions and would like to dispel my suspicions, they should come here and debate with me.

However, at the exact moment a lemming begins to debate in these forums, it is no longer a lemming.

You see, the reason I am able to dump all over lemmings in public in the way that I do is because the lemmings never read what I am saying. If they did, then they wouldn't be lemmings any more. The moment a lemming takes an active interest in what is going on around it and actually begins to think about the decisions it is making, it is suddenly transformed! Isn't it ingenious? I can't troll the lemmings, because the lemmings aren't here to be trolled.

It's almost as if they're...

...completely imaginary!


Anyway, this discussion has become completely off-topic. To keep it slightly on-topic, It seems to appear that AO has utterly eradicated lemmings from within its borders. I guess that's a plus. Unless you consider it to be an act of extreme animal cruelty.

[Cardoness]

It's almost as if they're...

...completely imaginary!

If only their votes were imaginary. It would be interesting to see how some of these resolutions would do if that was the case.

[Metania]

I do understand that it's fun for people here in the WA to make rude comments about one anothers mental faculties when/if the vote does not go as one might think it should. But just because you repeat over and over that it "seems" like they aren't bright does not make it so. It does, however contribute to the general atmosphere of the WA in a predictable manner.

And here you are, being condescending in a predictable manner, which just so happens to "contribute to the general atmosphere of the" ...why do you need to take so long to say "it poisons the atmosphere here?" Do you have a length limit you have to fit or something?

...But I guess the irony of you riding on your high horse and attacking people for calling people idiots by insinuating they are idiots might be lost on you. *shrug*

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

It warms my heart to see that the repeal of our commendation has sparked such a lively discussion.

[Mousebumples]

A few things, for the record, before this baby gets locked up and stuck in the archives ...

I wrote the original Commendation proposal as I felt that AO was worthy of such an award. As some may know, The Palentine has a puppet in Monkey Island - and this puppet has become quite a welcome member of my region. His puppet posted a past Commend AO proposal on our RMB, mostly tongue-in-cheek, I'd presume. I saw that, asked if I could rework it, and - after obtaining his permission - ran with it. Since the original basic concept was his, I offered him co-author credit. Many of you on these forums (and other forums) assisted me - including Unibot, who now appears to have vociferous objections to the commendation's one-time existence.

Despite my authoring of its repeal, I still feel that they are worthy of a commendation. However, when members of the AO mentioned that they didn't really want the commendation (or any commendation, for that matter), I began to work on repealing my by-then-passed SC resolution. It took me a bit longer than anticipated to finalize the draft (RL interference, largely), and while some individuals may have issues with the wording - it is entirely legal. There is no mandate as to what a repeal's text must contain - especially within the SC. (The GA does require that a repeal's contents cannot be solely arguments that boil down to NatSov.) Clearly, the text within the repeal should be related to the subject at hand, but there's nothing in the rules that I've seen/read that would require any of the stipulations made by various members of this assembly to be met. (i.e. that I should have only referenced actions that took place prior to the passage of the commendation, that I needed to refute all points within the commendation, etc.)

For the record, my original draft of this repeal proposal essentially involved stating most of the arguments in the original commendation in the negative. However, since it was so similar in content to the original, that there was concern from the individual(s) I asked to review the draft content that it may be ruled illegal. So, to err on the side of caution, I further edited the text to make it more dissimilar from the commendation. Still, the now-passed repeal does refer to things in the original commendation. If you're interested in reading those details, I've enclosed them here.

RECOGNIZES that this region's practice of "creative compliance" crossed a threshold of permissibility following the passage of GA#102, International Criminal Court, upon which region members expressed open defiance toward such a court and their intent to "shoot on sight" any and all WA compliance gnomes tasked with enforcing the resolution.

Their ability to find loopholes in legislation was referenced in the original commendation. This was an event that occurred after the passage of SC#19, but I thought it very topical as it was something that had changed since the original passage that may merit their commendation being repealed.

DOCUMENTS the other contributions that members of Antarctic Oasis have made to the NSWA, such as:
• Highlighting loopholes in proposed legislation

RECALLS that region members rejoiced in the passage of a home-grown resolution, GA#76, Standardised Passport Act, which created an agency contentiously named the GESTAPO.

Their passage of a number of resolutions was cited in the original commendation. The original wording essentially lauded their achievements, and this line was an attempt to point out that perhaps not all successful legislation is worth celebrating or recognizing with an honor such as a commendation.

NOTES that 17 Antarctic Oasis nations have authored 49 successful resolutions in total, within both the NSUN and NSWA;

DETAILS that these passed resolutions cover a wide variety of topics, including education, economics, child pornography, necrophilia, terrorism, naval protocols, and also the highly controversial subject of abortion;

LAUDS Antarctic Oasis as only one of the above passed resolutions has as of yet been repealed, which demonstrates a strength in proposal writing and ensures that the region’s efforts have affected all WA member nations;

OBSERVES that WA ambassadors from the Antarctic Oasis often spend their time in wholly unproductive ways, including but not limited to drunken, disorderly, and often lewd and obscene conduct; ignoring serious debate in favor of childish food fights; defenestrating ambassadors with whom they disagree; and, on separate occasions, both flooding and suicide-bombing the Security Council.

The activities of AO ambassadors within the WA were in the original commendation.

APPRECIATES the entertainment value that diplomats of Antarctic Oasis have added to World Assembly floor debates with their inclusion of shockingly profane dolphins, destructor bunnies, pie fights, water fights, karaoke contests, and more;

DENOUNCES the frequency with which representatives from Antarctic Oasis promote sexist attitudes and the objectification of women, particularly with regards to the honorable ambassador for Thessadoria.

The Thessadorian Ambassador was listed in the original. A somewhat non-specific reference to objectification of women can be found within the mention of her "considerable assets." (And just about anyone who has been fortunate enough to interact with Her Royal Hottness is likely aware of how she is portrayed.

DOCUMENTS the other contributions that members of Antarctic Oasis have made to the NSWA, such as: ...
• Introducing all ambassadors to the Thessadorian Ambassador and her considerable assets;

Were there things in the repeal text that were not listed in the original? Sure - largely the line that follows the above cited bits of text:

DOCUMENTS the alarming fact that members of Antarctic Oasis publicly flaunt their dissolute lifestyles within the WA, which in turn tempts more virtuous nations to migrate from their original, upstanding regions to join in such debauched behavior.

However, such a line would hardly be a fitting inclusion within a Commendation. And I am puzzled as to why such arguments are inappropriate for inclusion within a repeal.

I worded the opening and closing to the repeal text as I did intentionally. I set out to explain why AO was no longer worthy of a commendation, I did so, and then I restated my overarching point. It may not be how many of you would have repealed the commendation, but it is more than legal. Additionally, it was successful - which was my overriding goal. (And, on that same note, that's why I didn't comment further until now. The vote was going as I had wanted, so I saw no reason to "upset the balance" by posting a comment until after voting was completed.) Also, why would I rip to shreds the text of the original resolution that I authored myself?