Condemn Der Fuhrer Dyszel [Defeated]

[Kandarin]

The World Assembly,

DEDICATED to international peace, goodwill and harmony between nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING The Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel (known to the international community as The Dictatorship) as a nation that has been engaged in unceasing, brutal war for the entire duration of recorded history,

ALARMED at the total lack of personal and political freedoms in The Dictatorship, up to and including a standing prohibition on all actions, possessions or thoughts not related to guns,

DISTURBED at the complete disregard for human life exercised by The Dictatorship at all levels, including, but not limited to:

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent and wildly unpredictable A.I.,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of forced exile and prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* Support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),
* Use of prisoners of war as test subjects for experimental weapons and chemicals,
* And giving away nuclear weapons to impressionable new nations to encourage them to go to war,

DISMAYED at the fact that the environment of The Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

CONCLUDING that The Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

CONDEMNS The Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel

Any advice for improvement of this proposal would be appreciated.

EDIT: Links temp-fixed, several other edits added as per advice below.

[Kandarin]

Some explanation, since I feel that it is in order:

I did make a thread for this before, but that was to determine whether it was better to do an IC Condemn or an OOC Commend; consensus came down on the side of an IC Condemn and it was a very long time ago, so I am making this new thread for a proper drafting without that question.

For those that are not familiar with her, DFD is a player with a long-lasting legacy in NS roleplaying. Her war thread, from which most of the Bad Things her nation is accused of above spring, was and remains the longest-lasting plot in all of NS RP history. Indeed, the massive thread linked to is only a small part of a plot that began in the original, original NS forums and had numerous spinoffs, some of which continue to this day. Many of the prominent RPers of the past and present got their start with or crossed paths with DFD and her evil dictatorship of a nation. In Gameplay, DFD has been one of the most prominent participants in feeder-region politics. She has served as Interior Affairs minister in the West Pacific, serves as Delegate in the East Pacific, and has had countless invaluable behind-the-scenes roles in these regions and others. Many older Generalites will also remember her role in creating threads that will still have fame...or infamy, it being General and all.

The gist of the above explanation is that it is my desire to honor DFD for her role in RP, Gameplay and General. However, she has first and foremost been a RPer and has had participation in NS that revolves foremost around both RPing and helping others to do so. Thus, I feel that while an OOC Commend would be nice, an IC Condemn of her intricately scary RP nation would be a more fitting honor to one who has put so much care and effort into RPing it and helping others to appreciate it.

[Todd McCloud]

I would support this. DFD is a good player, yet her roleplay is her legacy here, as quoted by herself, if I remember correctly. I feel this would honor her better than a commendation, as we're condemning her nation within TEE.

Whether or not this passes the new 3WB is another story. Still, I'll look over it shortly. Just wrestling over a headache right now :/

[Maul-5]

I would vote for this but this is where one of the problems of Rule IV perhaps arise. Nations like Great Nepal have been condemned for cowardly abuse of other nations (and not necessarily a great RP skill while doing so) whereas Der Fuhrer Dyszel seems to have quite a commendable (though evil) condemn-worthy history (with great RP skill while doing so). It is undoubted in my eyes that she deserves a condemnation for her troubles but it also strikes that people may become confused at the choice of some nations condemns if sometimes it is for lack of morals & skill and other times it is for a skillful lack of morals.

- Jimmy Maullet.

[Kandarin]

I would vote for this but this is where one of the problems of Rule IV perhaps arise. Nations like Great Nepal have been condemned for cowardly abuse of other nations (and not necessarily a great RP skill while doing so) whereas Der Fuhrer Dyszel seems to have quite a commendable (though evil) condemn-worthy history (with great RP skill while doing so). It is undoubted in my eyes that she deserves a condemnation for her troubles but it also strikes that people may become confused at the choice of some nations condemns if sometimes it is for lack of morals & skill and other times it is for a skillful lack of morals.

- Jimmy Maullet.

Thus why the bar should be set high, while the number of precedents is still small.

[Ainocra]

my opposition is only good for another 11 hours or so, but until then

opposed

[Charlotte Ryberg]

The honoured ambassador from Charlotte Ryberg supports this. However, mentioning a pretitle could make it inaccurate if Der Fuhrer Dyszel changes it's pretitle. We find it better to refer to nations with the generic pretitle "the government of". Only a minor issue, but we're paranoid.

Yours etc,

[Kandarin]

The honoured ambassador from Charlotte Ryberg supports this. However, mentioning a pretitle could make it inaccurate if Der Fuhrer Dyszel changes it's pretitle. We find it better to refer to nations with the generic pretitle "the government of". Only a minor issue, but we're paranoid.

Yours etc,

Thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't considered that issue before. In this specific case, though, I do not believe it will pose a problem. The Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel has been labeled as a Dictatorship continuously since the very beginning of NS. It is referred to exclusively as the Dictatorship by its citizens, leaders, allies and enemies in RP, as distinguished from Der Fuhrer Dyszel, who (in RP) is its shadowy leader and is tacked on the name as an afterthought in such places if at all. DFD (the player) takes the consistency between her NS nation and her RP very seriously, and has explained at times that nothing short of its complete and utter annihilation in RP will make the Dictatorship stop being a Dictatorship. Therefore, I'm confident that the current pretitle will continue to stand the test of time.

Still, I can see how it might be unclear to some - is there any sort of note about that that I could put in while retaining the general tone?

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Maybe "the current regime" or "the repressive government", all in lower case, honoured ambassador?

[Kandarin]

Hmm - I'd rather not replace the term directly since DFD's nation is known as the Dictatorship more than it is known as DFD. But again, I can see how it would be an issue. How about I replace it with a full title where it's being used as a full title? It's how it'd show up in the actual proposal anyhow, or at least I think so. Does anyone know if name links automatically put in flags and pretitles in proposals, or if that's toggleable?

Also, let me try changing the (henceforth to be referred to as the Dictatorship) a little. How about (known to the international community as the Dictatorship)? It would make it clearer that the Dictatorship name is the RP term for it and could potentially exist independent of the pretitle.

So with the changes, it'd look like this:

The World Assembly,

DEDICATED to international peace, goodwill and harmony between nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING The Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel (known to the international community as the Dictatorship) as a nation that has been engaged in unceasing, brutal war for the entire duration of recorded history,

ALARMED at the total lack of personal and political freedoms in the Dictatorship, up to and including a standing prohibition on all actions, possessions or thoughts not related to guns,

DISTURBED at the complete disregard for human life exercised by the Dictatorship at all levels, including, but not limited to:

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

CONDEMNS The Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel

That way, while the fact that DFD's nation is known as the Dictatorship in RP is set in stone, those who aren't intimately familiar with the RP would see the title change on the rare chance that she changes it to something else. Does that work better?

[Glen-Rhodes]

Alright, here's a run-down of some things I've noticed.

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

Some of these things are more condemnable than others and could probably stand out on their own clauses. Releasing nerve agents, especially outside of a war context, is definitely one of those things. It's your choice, though; I mean, they are all bad things.

* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,

This in particular I find awkwardly worded. Is there a forced exodus? If so, it might be more effective to write in those terms, rather than 'prohibition' terms. Also, if they've actually killed civilians, that warrants mention.

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

'Perturbed' and 'generally convinced' are a little weak.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

[nation= noflag]Testlandia[/nation] should do the trick (space added to prevent accidential parsing)

[Unibot]

[nation= noflag]Testlandia[/nation] should do the trick (space added to prevent accidential parsing)

[nation=noflag]Testlandia[/nation] won't parse, there are no flags on the forums.

[Callisdrun]

Maybe "the current regime" or "the repressive government", all in lower case, honoured ambassador?

The Dictatorship has been "The Dictatorship" since 2003. I see no reason to change the terminology in the resolution. In DFD's (very extensive) roleplay, generally the nation is referred to as "The Dictatorship" while its leader is the character Der Fuhrer Dyszel.

[Callisdrun]

Alright, here's a run-down of some things I've noticed.

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

Some of these things are more condemnable than others and could probably stand out on their own clauses. Releasing nerve agents, especially outside of a war context, is definitely one of those things. It's your choice, though; I mean, they are all bad things.

* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,

This in particular I find awkwardly worded. Is there a forced exodus? If so, it might be more effective to write in those terms, rather than 'prohibition' terms. Also, if they've actually killed civilians, that warrants mention.

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

'Perturbed' and 'generally convinced' are a little weak.

Deliberate understatement is humorous.


Also, I think Kandarin is referencing the fact that practically the entire civilian population of The Dictatorship is dead. This is due mainly to the aforementioned issues of unceasing brutal war, etc.

[Don-Valentino]

The World Assembly,

DEDICATED to international peace, goodwill and harmony between nations,

Okay.

ACKNOWLEDGING the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel (henceforth to be referred to as the Dictatorship) as a nation that has been engaged in unceasing, brutal war for the entire duration of recorded history,

Yeah there's something.

ALARMED at the total lack of personal and political freedoms in the Dictatorship, up to and including a standing prohibition on all actions, possessions or thoughts not related to guns,

So, she has answered issues not to your liking, in my opinion not a condemnable offense.

DISTURBED at the complete disregard for human life exercised by the Dictatorship at all levels, including, but not limited to:

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

And there's the hook, line and sinker.

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

Not a condemnable offense.

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

Not necessary.

CONDEMNS the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel

[Callisdrun]

Don-Valantino, read the thread before posting.

[Don-Valentino]

Don-Valantino, read the thread before posting.

I did and I gave a run down of what I believe is good/bad with the topic.

[Callisdrun]

The World Assembly,

DEDICATED to international peace, goodwill and harmony between nations,

Okay.

ACKNOWLEDGING the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel (henceforth to be referred to as the Dictatorship) as a nation that has been engaged in unceasing, brutal war for the entire duration of recorded history,

Yeah there's something.

This is not an exaggeration. DFD's war began not that long after NS did.

ALARMED at the total lack of personal and political freedoms in the Dictatorship, up to and including a standing prohibition on all actions, possessions or thoughts not related to guns,

So, she has answered issues not to your liking, in my opinion not a condemnable offense.

This is RPed in character.

DISTURBED at the complete disregard for human life exercised by the Dictatorship at all levels, including, but not limited to:

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

And there's the hook, line and sinker.

Oh yes, ha ha.

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

Not a condemnable offense.

You don't seem to, erm, get the severity of things in the Dictatorship. It's been turned into a complete wasteland, desolation devoid of life. Everyone and everything is dead. Seriously. I think given the degree of environmental devastation, it can be condemned for it.

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

Not necessary.

Don't you have a sense of humor?

CONDEMNS the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel

Mmmmmyeeeeeesss.

[Callisdrun]

Maybe you should mention the... level of emotional maturity possessed by the all consuming, malevolent AI?

[Naivetry]

The question of what is condemnable is left (almost) entirely up to the delegates, Don-Valentino. That's why Condemnations are put to a vote - because people may disagree.

Having been thoroughly debriefed on the history and current state of the Dictatorship by our Foreign Affairs team, I would fully support this Condemnation on all the terms mentioned. Unfortunately, due to an ongoing series of wall construction projects within these chambers, Naivetry will continue either to abstain or to vote against all Security Council resolutions until further notice. I regret that we cannot join in condemning the Dictatorship to the eternal infamy it so justly deserves.

Celine d'Avignon
WA Security Council Liaison
People's Equanimous Republic of Naivetry

[Charlotte Ryberg]

The Honoured ambassador from Charlotte Ryberg is neutral on the 4th rule problem. She only judges SC resolutions on an individual case by case basis, and she feels that in this case this proposal has good merit. In addition, a good citation has strengthened the case for this resolution. However I would give it another week for more suggestions from other ambassadors to come through, but Ms. Harper has not observed any problems as of yet.

Yours etc,

[Elkana]

I would not vote for this.

[Callisdrun]

I would not vote for this.

Why not?

[Don-Valentino]

The World Assembly,

DEDICATED to international peace, goodwill and harmony between nations,

Okay.

ACKNOWLEDGING the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel (henceforth to be referred to as the Dictatorship) as a nation that has been engaged in unceasing, brutal war for the entire duration of recorded history,

Yeah there's something.

This is not an exaggeration. DFD's war began not that long after NS did.

ALARMED at the total lack of personal and political freedoms in the Dictatorship, up to and including a standing prohibition on all actions, possessions or thoughts not related to guns,

So, she has answered issues not to your liking, in my opinion not a condemnable offense.

This is RPed in character.

DISTURBED at the complete disregard for human life exercised by the Dictatorship at all levels, including, but not limited to:

* Subjugation of all outlying nations to the whims of an all-consuming, malevolent AI,
* Release of the crippling nerve agent XGN at an international peace conference and elsewhere,
* A policy of prohibition of all civilians from the entire nation on penalty of death,
* Complete disregard for all laws and customs of war,
* And support for the many wars and atrocities of the Global Dominion of Dictatorships Against Democracy (GDODAD),

And there's the hook, line and sinker.

Oh yes, ha ha.

PERTURBED at the fact that the environment of the Dictatorship has been allowed to degrade into a hellish wasteland incapable of sustaining human life beyond a few scattered special forces,

Not a condemnable offense.

You don't seem to, erm, get the severity of things in the Dictatorship. It's been turned into a complete wasteland, desolation devoid of life. Everyone and everything is dead. Seriously. I think given the degree of environmental devastation, it can be condemned for it.

GENERALLY CONVINCED that the Dictatorship makes the world a far grimmer, bleaker, darker world simply by existing,

Not necessary.

Don't you have a sense of humor?

CONDEMNS the Dictatorship of Der Fuhrer Dyszel

Mmmmmyeeeeeesss.

So we do have similar ideas this condemnation in all it's glory, I will vote 'for' it mainly because of the 3WB cause they will vote against it.