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Hulldom
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Posts: 1571
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Hulldom » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:09 pm

0cala wrote:
Hulldom wrote:Even if he had, you realize this is a...perfectly legitimate tactic, no? Like there's literally nothing stopping...anyone from trying to juice votes from TNP citizens and residents out there.

But why? what's his goal?

You would have to ask him, I couldn't possibly comment.
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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22871
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:25 pm

Hulldom wrote:
0cala wrote:
I would like to know, Pallaith have you been telling others to vote against my proposal in the TNP forums?

Even if he had, you realize this is a...perfectly legitimate tactic, no? Like there's literally nothing stopping...anyone from trying to juice votes from TNP citizens and residents out there.

I wouldn't call lies and gossip "perfectly legitimate".
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Liberza
Envoy
 
Posts: 245
Founded: May 05, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Liberza » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:30 pm

Not sure if this is true, but it seems pretty messed up that someone who is delegate but isn’t the elected delegate is able to directly vote on WA proposals, given that their vote is also on behalf of all of their endorsers, which in Pallaith’s case is over 800 :P
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/reserved DEFINITION:
To reserve a post as to prevent being ninja’d. This is especially useful for having posts that may take effort or a good portion of time to make, as there is a greater chance of such things being ninja’d than a slash and a word. Only practical in some threads compared to others. The idea is to put /reserved first and edit it once you have a proper answer. As such, you are not ninja’d. BN will do you as long as you eventually edit your /reserved into a proper post.

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The Ice States
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2869
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Ice States » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:32 pm

Liberza wrote:Not sure if this is true, but it seems pretty messed up that someone who is delegate but isn’t the elected delegate is able to directly vote on WA proposals, given that their vote is also on behalf of all of their endorsers, which in Pallaith’s case is over 800 :P

The in-game Delegate's vote is subject to the direction of the elected Delegate during Delegacy transitions as per the regional WA voting policy. I say this having written the current voting policy in place in TNP, based on a previous version by Hulldom which included the same wording for that provision.
Last edited by The Ice States on Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Liberza
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Posts: 245
Founded: May 05, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Liberza » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:44 pm

The Ice States wrote:
Liberza wrote:Not sure if this is true, but it seems pretty messed up that someone who is delegate but isn’t the elected delegate is able to directly vote on WA proposals, given that their vote is also on behalf of all of their endorsers, which in Pallaith’s case is over 800 :P

The in-game Delegate's vote is subject to the direction of the elected Delegate during Delegacy transitions as per the regional WA voting policy. I say this having written the current voting policy in place in TNP, based on a previous version by Hulldom which included the same wording for that provision.

Ah, alright, so Kaschovia told Pallaith to vote against? Good to know about that process, thanks
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/reserved DEFINITION:
To reserve a post as to prevent being ninja’d. This is especially useful for having posts that may take effort or a good portion of time to make, as there is a greater chance of such things being ninja’d than a slash and a word. Only practical in some threads compared to others. The idea is to put /reserved first and edit it once you have a proper answer. As such, you are not ninja’d. BN will do you as long as you eventually edit your /reserved into a proper post.

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Kreigsreich of Iron
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Posts: 1200
Founded: Jul 11, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kreigsreich of Iron » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:05 pm

0cala wrote:
The Commodore wrote:Seems like you either back up the fascist claim here or don't make it at all.

I have no idea what this eternal thing is, but I do know if a proposal makes a serious claim that may not be true it should not pass. When I search the Gameplay forum for references to this group the most recent significant post I found was a raid report where they were raiding with LWU, and it was from like three months ago. Unlike the eternal thing, I do know who LWU is, and I don't buy they work with fascists. Proposal threads should stand on their own, so I feel like I have gone above and beyond to try to understand the allegation hurled here and I am left with serious doubts about the author. Hopefully there is just a lot that isn't being said which should be, but throwing that label around lightly is very serious.

Yes, LWU may have raided this region with TEO, but yet again, Fascists, past or present, do not deserve Trophy regions.

But we are not Fascists, nor have we been at any point at time. We have had a history of banning or imprisoning fascists and Nazis.
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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 387
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:16 pm

Kreigsreich of Iron wrote:
0cala wrote:Yes, LWU may have raided this region with TEO, but yet again, Fascists, past or present, do not deserve Trophy regions.

But we are not Fascists, nor have we been at any point at time. We have had a history of banning or imprisoning fascists and Nazis.

You're a little too late bud. We already proved TEO to be fascist.

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The Seven levels of Heaven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 360
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Seven levels of Heaven » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:29 pm

0cala wrote:
Hulldom wrote:Even if he had, you realize this is a...perfectly legitimate tactic, no? Like there's literally nothing stopping...anyone from trying to juice votes from TNP citizens and residents out there.

But why? what's his goal?


It's called being the delegate of a region, and part of that job involves TGing WA members in your region to suggest/recommend voting a specific way, usually in detailed reasoning. Usually it's an upper government decision, sometimes it's a sole one based on the delegate's own feelings on the subject...it varies. As for why they specifically are asking people to vote against, that's something you'd have to directly ask...but I'd hardly be surprised if it was something as simple as a pessimistic viewpoint of knowing this will fail, so might as well go with it and push the next one to pass.
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Improper Classifications
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Posts: 1313
Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:30 pm

Interesting that TNP's Office of WA Affairs and Delegate-Elect are at opposition here.
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The Seven levels of Heaven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 360
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Seven levels of Heaven » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:41 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:Interesting that TNP's Office of WA Affairs and Delegate-Elect are at opposition here.

Hardly surprising. Given the author is in TCB, on top of the fact that their region is allies with BoM, which if I remember at least one of those are at odds with TNP currently. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the driving force behind the campaign.
Last edited by The Seven levels of Heaven on Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Improper Classifications
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Posts: 1313
Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:42 pm

The Seven levels of Heaven wrote:
Improper Classifications wrote:Interesting that TNP's Office of WA Affairs and Delegate-Elect are at opposition here.

Hardly surprising. Given the author is in TCB, on top of the fact that their region is allies with BoM, which if I remember at least one of those are at odds with TNP currently. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the driving force behind the campaign.

0cala moves regions every time the wind changes direction.
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The Seven levels of Heaven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 360
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Seven levels of Heaven » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:51 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
The Seven levels of Heaven wrote:Hardly surprising. Given the author is in TCB, on top of the fact that their region is allies with BoM, which if I remember at least one of those are at odds with TNP currently. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the driving force behind the campaign.

0cala moves regions every time the wind changes direction.


That's fair. I remember doing that a bit myself in my earlier days.

But that's usually the only reasoning I can think of though unless they're jumping on the bandwagon of others being against due to the author's behavior...it's the SC, so it could be literally anything.
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The Hinterplace
Envoy
 
Posts: 219
Founded: Sep 16, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Hinterplace » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:55 pm

I think that it's ridiculous that proposals are being made because of how some people feel about the author rather than the content of the proposal.
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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 387
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:17 pm

This has some potential, it was at 20ish% voted for this morning, it's now at 41.2%.

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The Seven levels of Heaven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 360
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Seven levels of Heaven » Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:25 pm

The Hinterplace wrote:I think that it's ridiculous that proposals are being made because of how some people feel about the author rather than the content of the proposal.

That's essentially a core tenant of NSGP in general, unfortunately. But at the same time, the behavior of the author does matter to an extent. If the author is essentially just shutting down criticisms and even trying to tell folks who oppose to just not comment as was happening in the beginning pages, that's a bit of a problem. As is throwing around the word "Fascism" carelessly as was also happening...which that at least has thankfully since been backed with evidence versus just it being used because, to quote the author at the beginning, they just "want to fit in."

But an author isn't going to learn and grow without the criticisms so long as they're constructive...which I'd have to re-read, but much of the criticisms that I recall have been that (ignoring the usual badge hunt cries). And when someone shuts down those opposing bits or ignores them, that kind of thing...it's going to rub folks the wrong way. Yes, it could be a great proposal, but its author has continually shown that they don't really care to want to hear critique...to where others in support have had to step in and fill that role of defending the resolution for them.

I will say though that I do hope the author continues writing resolutions and takes this all in stride, a learning lesson as you will...regardless of whether or not this passes/fails. Because compared to the countless resolutions that just get submitted without consultation or proofreading, this is already at least a few steps above.
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Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10551
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sat Sep 23, 2023 6:52 pm

0cala wrote:This has some potential, it was at 20ish% voted for this morning, it's now at 41.2%.

I don't think you can win this unless you gather more than 1,300 nations to vote for your proposal.
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The Seven levels of Heaven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 360
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Seven levels of Heaven » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:08 pm

Picairn wrote:
0cala wrote:This has some potential, it was at 20ish% voted for this morning, it's now at 41.2%.

I don't think you can win this unless you gather more than 1,300 nations to vote for your proposal.

Considering this still has...what, 3 days left? It's possible to get enough support to turn it much more in favor of passing.

That being said, it's also possible that even more votes can appear to continue its fail trend. It's always an uncertain gamble unless the subject in vote is a pretty obvious pass/fail such as commending a universally beloved person.
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Herten
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Jul 20, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Herten » Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:50 am

0cala wrote:
King Nephmir II wrote:-snip-

Don't post here pls, thanks!


Don't be here pls, thanks!

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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 387
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:51 am

Herten wrote:
0cala wrote:Don't post here pls, thanks!


Don't be here pls, thanks!

who the fuck are you?

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Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10551
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:11 am

The Seven levels of Heaven wrote:
Picairn wrote:I don't think you can win this unless you gather more than 1,300 nations to vote for your proposal.

Considering this still has...what, 3 days left? It's possible to get enough support to turn it much more in favor of passing.

That being said, it's also possible that even more votes can appear to continue its fail trend. It's always an uncertain gamble unless the subject in vote is a pretty obvious pass/fail such as commending a universally beloved person.

Doesn't seem like it's gonna pass. The opposition has been rising steadily alongside the support.

This whole drama is so interesting that I might write an article about this.
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Herten
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Jul 20, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Herten » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:12 am

0cala wrote:
Herten wrote:
Don't be here pls, thanks!

who the fuck are you?


obviously someone who is not convinced by this attempt in bad faith.
Drag someone through the mud and then tell them to piss off?
Has it come to this?

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Angeloid Astraea
Diplomat
 
Posts: 828
Founded: Feb 20, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Angeloid Astraea » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:18 am

Herten wrote:
0cala wrote:who the fuck are you?


obviously someone who is not convinced by this attempt in bad faith.
Drag someone through the mud and then tell them to piss off?
Has it come to this?

The evidence against Nephmir and TEO has been presented in good faith two separate times here and here. As a member of an anti-fascist region yourself (or at least one tagged Anti-fascist), you should be condemning them along with us, not defending them.
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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 387
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:33 am

Herten wrote:
0cala wrote:who the fuck are you?


obviously someone who is not convinced by this attempt in bad faith.
Drag someone through the mud and then tell them to piss off?
Has it come to this?

Sure buddy.

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oooooo oooooo

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Herten
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Jul 20, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Herten » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:38 am

Angeloid Astraea wrote:
Herten wrote:
obviously someone who is not convinced by this attempt in bad faith.
Drag someone through the mud and then tell them to piss off?
Has it come to this?

The evidence against Nephmir and TEO has been presented in good faith two separate times here and here. As a member of an anti-fascist region yourself (or at least one tagged Anti-fascist), you should be condemning them along with us, not defending them.


As a German national I am quite simply appalled. This is not evidence nor have traditional stances on gender and sexuality enough weight to call someone fascist. I’ll remind you that these claims are slander (not only in social contexts, but also legal ones)

As a NationStates player I am appalled by the aggressive non-roleplaying aspect of this proposal. This is basically a direct attack on the character of other participants with (I’ll be honest here) bullshit-evidence.

I would rather support morally dubious people than this half-assed attempt at nothing.
Last edited by Herten on Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Angeloid Astraea
Diplomat
 
Posts: 828
Founded: Feb 20, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Angeloid Astraea » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:42 am

Herten wrote:As a German national I am quite simply appalled. This is not evidence nor have traditional stances on gender and sexuality enough weight to call someone fascist. I’ll remind you that these claims are slander (not only in a social contexts, but also legal ones)

As a NationStates player I am appalled by the aggressive non-roleplaying aspect of this proposal. This is basically a direct attack on the character of other participants with (I’ll be honest here) bullshit-evidence.

I would rather support morally dubious people than this half-assed attempt at nothing.

You're a German national? An AfD supporter, no doubt...

Image

Have fun supporting this.
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