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[DEFEATED] Liberate Alterante

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Refuge Isle
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 1931
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:08 pm

Reventus Koth wrote:...

There's quite a lot of content here. Thanks for the analysis, I haven't been keeping up with these developments.

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Imperial Buzius
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 19, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Imperial Buzius » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:28 pm

The Hinterplace wrote:Saying a proposal is a badge hunt is a fallacious argument to make, as it does not target the argument the proposal is making itself. It's called a circumstantial ad hominem. The argument is also an odious one because it's hypocritical in some ways. I do not see people criticizing others for keeping track of how many military operations they have been on, the ranks they've held, and the positions they have served in. Why does it matter if people like to write proposals in the World Assembly so long as the proposal is well-written?

Because, and I've certainly been guilty of this myself, 1) A good chunk or even perhaps the majority of confoundingly bad proposals are written because they see the badge and want it and 2) there's this odd idea that one should write for the sake of the writing and not for the reward, which I find weird tbh.
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0cala
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Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:58 pm

Thank you all for the support!
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Lodak Khan
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Posts: 15
Founded: Jun 29, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Lodak Khan » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:23 pm

0cala wrote:Thank you all for the support!

but of course... the NS needs more people like you...

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0cala
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Posts: 417
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:25 pm

Lodak Khan wrote:
0cala wrote:Thank you all for the support!

but of course... the NS needs more people like you...

Of course, I am bat(wo)man coming to save the day from the fash!
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Buhers Mk II
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Posts: 100
Founded: Jun 19, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Buhers Mk II » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:26 pm

I stand by my opinion that the proposal by Waterfall States is more accurate to the situation at hand, but I suppose this works as well. Good luck.
Last edited by Buhers Mk II on Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lodak Khan
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Posts: 15
Founded: Jun 29, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Lodak Khan » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:31 pm

0cala wrote:
Lodak Khan wrote:but of course... the NS needs more people like you...

Of course, I am bat(wo)man coming to save the day from the fash!



after careful consideration of both arguments i have found Bulgastan guilty of the crimes he is charged with... after studying facism to fully understand it i too am now opposed to it..


while i do not have WA membership my ally does and i shall inform him so he makes the correct decision.

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Arstotskiano
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Posts: 192
Founded: Jul 19, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Arstotskiano » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:06 pm

Full support as it seems to be getting to vote first.
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Boilanzandia
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Posts: 23
Founded: May 17, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Boilanzandia » Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:07 am

I am a former member of Alterante, full support
Last edited by Boilanzandia on Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 15161
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:40 am

Support to rid TEO of another trophy region of theirs and eventually enable the natives to return.
Free Palestine, stop the genocide in Gaza

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Boilanzandia
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Posts: 23
Founded: May 17, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Boilanzandia » Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:35 am

Buhers Mk II wrote:
0cala wrote:is that not enough? the region barely gets any nations due to the password. giving the idea for a need for this proposal.

It was a closed community for a friend group originating in another site. Of course it barely got any nations.
I mean, we did get one foreign nation by the name of BEEG BEEG (I think), but again, one isn't a real big number.

I used to be apart of the region, this is pretty accurate
Last edited by Boilanzandia on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Buhers Mk II
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Posts: 100
Founded: Jun 19, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Buhers Mk II » Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:16 am

Boilanzandia wrote:
Buhers Mk II wrote:It was a closed community for a friend group originating in another site. Of course it barely got any nations.
I mean, we did get one foreign nation by the name of BEEG BEEG (I think), but again, one isn't a real big number.

I used to be apart of the region, this is pretty accurate

No shit.
Outer Sparta wrote:Support to rid TEO of another trophy region of theirs and eventually enable the natives to return.

Native, singular.
Last edited by Buhers Mk II on Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Second Sovereignty
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Founded: Jan 02, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Second Sovereignty » Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:08 am

The absurd demands made of - and equally absurd attacks on - a new author like this is direly disappointing. The WA is known to be hostile to unestablished players, but this is a descent into pettiness if ever there was.

0cala; as someone who has been around NationStates since 2014 (See Tinfect in my signature, if you doubt that.), and passed several resolutions in the GA in that time, I highly recommend ignoring certain aggressive and persistent detractors. The evidence regarding fascism in The Eternal Order is plain to see, posted in this very thread and frankly, despite their objections otherwise, well known for some time among anyone who bothered to look. You do not need to go over it again and again for them; they are never going to be convinced, and are asking only as an attempt to break you down and make you abandon the draft.


The rest of you people; the spectre of the badge-hunt has ever haunted these halls, and yet, in my long history here, I've only ever actually seen it a few times, and almost never by a new author. You should all know better by now. Also; as to the allegations of ChatGPT use in drafting; get over yourselves. Assistive writing tools have existed forever, condemning them because of a grossly egotistical certainty that it's devaluing the work of others, is incredibly poor form. And I will here note that there's nothing plagiaristic about borrowing some words from a hyped-up statistical model. Else everyone on the internet who has ever dared to use one of the, character name or writing prompt generators that have existed for literal decades is a criminal.

I say good luck to 0cala's proposal. Better something written by someone lacking a little formal experience than an alternative unwilling to call a horse a horse.
Last edited by Second Sovereignty on Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Marchland
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Posts: 155
Founded: Aug 04, 2022
Father Knows Best State

Postby Marchland » Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:11 am

Astrobolt wrote:Against due to author. Someone who uses ChatGPT in their proposals, and then covers their tracks by surreptitiously removing the offending portion, and then lying about that ever taking place is not someone who I want to reward with an authorship. There is no rush for this proposal, someone else can easily submit it.



what is wrong about using chatgtp?

some people arent good with words and need help making a propasal sound more professional...

chatgtp creates equal opprotunity

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Ostrovskiy
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Posts: 1093
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ostrovskiy » Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:29 am

Second Sovereignty wrote:The absurd demands made of - and equally absurd attacks on - a new author like this is direly disappointing. The WA is known to be hostile to unestablished players, but this is a descent into pettiness if ever there was.

0cala; as someone who has been around NationStates since 2014 (See Tinfect in my signature, if you doubt that.), and passed several resolutions in the GA in that time, I highly recommend ignoring certain aggressive and persistent detractors. The evidence regarding fascism in The Eternal Order is plain to see, posted in this very thread and frankly, despite their objections otherwise, well known for some time among anyone who bothered to look. You do not need to go over it again and again for them; they are never going to be convinced, and are asking only as an attempt to break you down and make you abandon the draft.


The rest of you people; the spectre of the badge-hunt has ever haunted these halls, and yet, in my long history here, I've only ever actually seen it a few times, and almost never by a new author. You should all know better by now. Also; as to the allegations of ChatGPT use in drafting; get over yourselves. Assistive writing tools have existed forever, condemning them because of a grossly egotistical certainty that it's devaluing the work of others, is incredibly poor form. And I will here note that there's nothing plagiaristic about borrowing some words from a hyped-up statistical model. Else everyone on the internet who has ever dared to use one of the, character name or writing prompt generators that have existed for literal decades is a criminal.

I say good luck to 0cala's proposal. Better something written by someone lacking a little formal experience than an alternative unwilling to call a horse a horse.

Second Sovereignty is absolutely correct
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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 417
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:31 pm

Second Sovereignty wrote:The absurd demands made of - and equally absurd attacks on - a new author like this is direly disappointing. The WA is known to be hostile to unestablished players, but this is a descent into pettiness if ever there was.

0cala; as someone who has been around NationStates since 2014 (See Tinfect in my signature, if you doubt that.), and passed several resolutions in the GA in that time, I highly recommend ignoring certain aggressive and persistent detractors. The evidence regarding fascism in The Eternal Order is plain to see, posted in this very thread and frankly, despite their objections otherwise, well known for some time among anyone who bothered to look. You do not need to go over it again and again for them; they are never going to be convinced, and are asking only as an attempt to break you down and make you abandon the draft.


The rest of you people; the spectre of the badge-hunt has ever haunted these halls, and yet, in my long history here, I've only ever actually seen it a few times, and almost never by a new author. You should all know better by now. Also; as to the allegations of ChatGPT use in drafting; get over yourselves. Assistive writing tools have existed forever, condemning them because of a grossly egotistical certainty that it's devaluing the work of others, is incredibly poor form. And I will here note that there's nothing plagiaristic about borrowing some words from a hyped-up statistical model. Else everyone on the internet who has ever dared to use one of the, character name or writing prompt generators that have existed for literal decades is a criminal.

I say good luck to 0cala's proposal. Better something written by someone lacking a little formal experience than an alternative unwilling to call a horse a horse.

I realized that, many people just oppose me and are unwillingly wanting to support something i wrote. shame on them.
Last edited by 0cala on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sea Dome
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Posts: 261
Founded: Dec 25, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Sea Dome » Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:13 am

Sartre wrote:Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Given the era and location of this quote, we can more precisely re-translate the subject from "anti-Semites" to "fascists". A fine distinction to be sure, but understand that he means both.
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Picairn
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Posts: 10588
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:03 am

Call me early but this proposal is getting destroyed at vote 2-to-1.

Already casted my For vote, of course. Containing fascism is more important than holding a grudge over a past AI-written proposal. For the record, I oppose using ChatGPT to write whole proposals for you (any AI-generated proposal should be instantly DoA) and it's a different ballgame from using grammar correctors or name suggestions. But holding a past proposal over an author in the present? Nah.

As for "well-written", Liberations typically have like 4-5 short paragraphs, so I don't give a shit about some people's high standards. If the proposal aligns with the average standards of past Liberations, it's all good.
Last edited by Picairn on Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Raider Brexit
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Posts: 11
Founded: Mar 15, 2023
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Raider Brexit » Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:13 am

Players like 0cala keep the game interesting. Players who spawn camp the WA forums to snipe every new writer with accusations of "badge hunt"...don't?

For that reason as well as the gameplay implications, I'm rooting for this resolution
Last edited by Raider Brexit on Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Reventus Koth
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Posts: 1157
Founded: Apr 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Reventus Koth » Sat Sep 23, 2023 6:57 am

Thought experiment for those voting against 0cala's draft: if people voting for this proposal vote against Waterfall's proposal when it enters voting, will you accuse them of letting pettiness get in the way of anti-fascism?
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Posts: 1295
Founded: Apr 07, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:12 am

Cultural Marxism is winning. This is what happens when an ambitious new author enters the fray and shakes things up. The Establishment marshals their hordes to stop any threat to them. I urge every free region to join forces with Algerheaven in our confrontation with the NWO. The NWO may look omnipresent, but they are vulnerable. I forsee a massive backlash forming in response to the extreme censorship brave patriots like 0cala are facing. We must seize this opportunity to prepare a final offensive with everything we have. One final push will cause the Deep State to fragment!
Last edited by Eternal Algerstonia on Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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0cala
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 417
Founded: May 26, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby 0cala » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:15 am

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:Cultural Marxism is winning. This is what happens when an ambitious new author enters the fray and shakes things up. The Establishment marshals their hordes to stop any threat to them. I urge every free region to join forces with Algerheaven in our confrontation with the NWO. The NWO may look omnipresent, but they are vulnerable. I forsee a massive backlash forming in response to the extreme censorship brave patriots like 0cala are facing. One final push will cause the Deep State to fragment!

I plan on raiding small delegates who have voted against ;}
Last edited by 0cala on Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Buhers Mk II
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 100
Founded: Jun 19, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Buhers Mk II » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:16 am

0cala wrote:
Eternal Algerstonia wrote:Cultural Marxism is winning. This is what happens when an ambitious new author enters the fray and shakes things up. The Establishment marshals their hordes to stop any threat to them. I urge every free region to join forces with Algerheaven in our confrontation with the NWO. The NWO may look omnipresent, but they are vulnerable. I forsee a massive backlash forming in response to the extreme censorship brave patriots like 0cala are facing. One final push will cause the Deep State to fragment!

I plan on raiding small delegates who have voted against ;}

Petty thing to do, but I guess that's the name of the game. :rofl:
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Posts: 1295
Founded: Apr 07, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:16 am

0cala wrote:
Eternal Algerstonia wrote:Cultural Marxism is winning. This is what happens when an ambitious new author enters the fray and shakes things up. The Establishment marshals their hordes to stop any threat to them. I urge every free region to join forces with Algerheaven in our confrontation with the NWO. The NWO may look omnipresent, but they are vulnerable. I forsee a massive backlash forming in response to the extreme censorship brave patriots like 0cala are facing. One final push will cause the Deep State to fragment!

I plan on raiding small delegates who have voted against ;}

I praise you for this brave effort. The Leviathan's collaborators must all be liquidated. A clear message must be sent to the NWO's minions enabling their hegemony.

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Liberza
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Posts: 247
Founded: May 05, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Liberza » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:37 am

why can’t people just let it slide and liberate the region already? the earlier alterante is rid of fascists, the better.
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