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[DEFEATED] [GA#590 SUB!] Police Accountability Act

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Kostane
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Postby Kostane » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:09 pm

The Overmind wrote:
Katinea wrote:OOC: The problem is I need to say in the WA for regional Security Purposes. Do the resolutions do anything or are they just RP? And can I decanonise them?

The resolutions affect your nation's stats, and they are RP. If you RP noncompliance then you will be RP sanctioned by the Compliance Commission in accordance with the Administrative Compliance Act.

The Compliance Commission still hasn’t found me despite many atrocities *looks around nervously*
Last edited by Kostane on Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:10 pm

Reposting from here for posterity, the following tag:wa telegram was sent as to this proposal,
Please vote for the Police Accountability Act.

I am Tinhampton, the author of the Police Accountability Act. I would like to tell you why it is so important that you vote for it. A vote for my proposal means that you want it to become law in your nation and many others.

Police officers - who I describe as "LEOs" (law enforcement officers) in my proposal - work in many nations to keep innocent people safe and arrest suspected criminals. Unfortunately, some of them use too much force against other people while they are on duty. I have written the Act to ensure that justice is done against these few LEOs, and to encourage the many other LEOs not to copy them.

A lot of misinformation is spreading about the Act. The spread of this misinformation is contributing to the fact that it is currently losing by 6,150 votes to 5,500. Some people say that it is too vague. Other people say that it will not fit all nations. A few have even said that they will leave the World Assembly if it passes.

I have spent around £12 on bringing this telegram to you, and to everyone who needs to hear it*. That could buy me a good book or a nice lunch... or four cups of coffee. Instead, I am using it to educate you about what the Police Accountability Act will mean for your nation, and to ensure that you know why the claims being made about my Act are false.

I would also like to assure you that the Police Accountability Act will be a net positive for all of your citizens: for your LEOs; for the people who employ them; and for those who interact with the police. Here are some important points that I want you to feel safe and secure about.
  • The Act allows you to punish excessive force appropriately. Some LEOs use excessive force once, by mistake. Some LEOs repeatedly use excessive force over a period of years or decades. The Act requires that both of them must be punished, but welcomes harsher punishment for more serious offences - as the law should do.
  • The Act says that, if your nation cannot afford body-worn cameras or has not developed them, then your LEOs do not need to wear them. If you are willing or able to supply them to police officers, then they must be supplied. This is common sense.
  • The Act requires that each use of force be reviewed once. Re-reviews are optional, but allowed. Reviews of past incidents are optional, but also allowed. I don't say how often the reviews must take place because if I said (for example) "every three months," that would mean different things for different nations - three months could be the blink of an eye for one nation; multiple times the life expectancy for another.
  • The Act contains a clear definition of a LEO. A LEO is someone who is employed by a law enforcement agency (such as a police department) in your nation, and doing law enforcement work (such as arresting people and patrolling the streets) which is needed by that agency. A soldier is not a LEO. A member of a militia, liberation front, or armed terrorist organisation is not a LEO. This proposal will not allow anyone else to invade your nation.
  • The Act is a safeguard against future failings in your police force. Today, your police may be fair, honest and trustworthy. But in the future, some of them may be interested in using excessive force against criminals, innocent people, or other LEOs. My proposal will ensure that they will be removed from policing and brought to justice - helping to restore public trust in your nation's law enforcement.
  • The Act contains an enforcement mechanism. There is a special law called the Administrative Compliance Act which says that, if you do not comply with any WA law - including my proposal, when it passes - you will have to pay a massive fine. If you do not pay this fine, then no WA state will do trade with you. Because the Administrative Compliance Act exists, I do not need to say in the Police Accountability Act how it will be enforced.

These are some of the many reasons why you should not be afraid to support my proposal. If, after reading this telegram, you believe that it will be beneficial for your nation or the world in general, then I encourage you to go here, and vote FOR the Police Accountability Act.

Thank you!

*: You should have been excluded from this telegram if you voted in favour of this proposal, or live in one of the ten excluded regions at the header of this telegram (all of whom either are NatSov, party to the Modern Gameplay Compact, or have policies against tag:wa telegrams). Please let me know if you got this telegram despite supporting this proposal and/or living in one of these regions!
Last edited by The Ice States on Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ravemath
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Postby Ravemath » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:11 pm

There are Roman numerals in the description,I'll vote against ANYTHING in favor of Roman numerals.
ayo!!! 1+1=3!!!

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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:13 pm

Ravemath wrote:There are Roman numerals in the description,I'll vote against ANYTHING in favor of Roman numerals.


So most proposals
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Kostane
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Postby Kostane » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:14 pm

Mother VDHNK wrote:As the representative of Mother VDHNK, I wish to reiterate our stance AGAINST the Police Accountability Act, taking into consideration our unique national circumstances.

1. Effective Existing Framework: Mother VDHNK has achieved a near absence of crime, a testament to the effectiveness of our current policing and social policies. Our police force is not only well-funded but also operates under a framework that effectively integrates education and welfare policies, contributing to social stability and low crime rates.

2. Proven Success without External Mandates: The success of our existing system demonstrates that we have implemented practices and policies that are well-suited to our national context. The imposition of a universal standard, as proposed by the Police Accountability Act, may not contribute additional benefits and could potentially disrupt the delicate balance we have achieved between law enforcement and community welfare.

3. Potential Misalignment with National Policies: The directives of the Police Accountability Act might not align with the operational practices and the cultural values underpinning our law enforcement and social systems. For instance, the mandatory use of body-worn cameras and the prescribed de-escalation and force measures may not be necessary in a context where such issues are already effectively managed.

4. Risk of Overregulation: Introducing additional regulatory burdens could complicate our existing framework without clear justification, given our current low crime rates and high police accountability standards. The Act’s detailed prescriptions could lead to unnecessary bureaucracy, potentially diverting resources from other proven areas of public welfare and education.

5. Emphasis on Local Solutions: We believe in tailored solutions that respect national sovereignty and the unique societal dynamics of each member state. While we support the principle of police accountability, it should not come at the cost of undermining local systems that are already functioning effectively.

In conclusion, while we share the broader goals of the World Assembly in promoting safe and fair policing practices, Mother VDHNK must prioritize the maintenance of our successful existing framework. We suggest that future proposals allow for greater flexibility and respect for the diverse methods and practices that member states already employ to achieve shared objectives.

I object to your stance on the grounds that it is not sufficiently justified to allow other, less developed, countries to continue to violate human rights by effectively torturing their own citizens.
If you are successful, then nothing will change for you — nations determine their own punishments for these crimes. If no police brutality occurs in your country, then there’s nothing you have to do. There’s 0 risk of over regulation because the only regulation is that your people have to have rights. The only question is whether you are for or against police brutality. Local solutions are possible within the framework of the proposal.
Thus, proud to be standing against police brutality, Kostane recommends that all nations vote FOR this proposal.
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Ravemath
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Postby Ravemath » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:16 pm

The Overmind wrote:
Ravemath wrote:There are Roman numerals in the description,I'll vote against ANYTHING in favor of Roman numerals.


So most proposals


I guess :I
ayo!!! 1+1=3!!!

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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:19 pm

The Act is a great idea...for my nation. I recognize your right to do things as you see fit.
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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:03 pm

I've merged a competing thread, previously called "Why you should vote AGAINST the Police Accountability Act.", by WeSuckia with this one previously established by the author.

There is no need for multiple debate threads for the same General Assembly resolution.

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Opiachus
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Postby Opiachus » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:06 pm

The Ice States wrote:Reposting from here for posterity, the following tag:wa telegram was sent as to this proposal,
Please vote for the Police Accountability Act.

~snip~

I have spent around £12 on bringing this telegram to you, and to everyone who needs to hear it*. That could buy me a good book or a nice lunch... or four cups of coffee. Instead, I am using it to educate you about what the Police Accountability Act will mean for your nation, and to ensure that you know why the claims being made about my Act are false.

~snip~


Our delegation to the WA will be voting AGAINST the Police Accountability Act due to the mass transmission of telegram spam by the author of the resolution. To quote the opinion of the WA Office of the region Europe regarding similar telegram spam for a previous resolution that reached vote and was defeated (Against Quorum Raiding):

European WA Office wrote:European residents have expressed their dislike for telegram spam of this sort and have empowered the government writ large to take action to disincentivise its use. We also have stood against the proposition that World Assembly proposals should be passed (or materially influenced) by expenditure of real world money.


Our government fully agrees with this opinion that WA resolutions should face a level playing field, no matter which nation submits the resolution or what the content of the resolution is, and especially no matter the authoring nation's WA campaigning budget. If a proposal can't stand on its own contents at the WA voting floor then it is not strong enough to become a WA resolution - it needs to either be re-written or, alternatively, the ideas it advocates for are simply not popular enough. Attempts at lobbying the WA voting process using national finances simply must be resisted in any circumstance, no matter the good faith of the author.

As well, it is not an acceptable solution to simply exclude known anti-telegram regions such as Europe (quoted above) or other well-known ones. This assumes that messaging the residents of other, lesser-known regions is more acceptable because their delegates have a lesser ability to retaliate, or that they should have less of an ability to object, which is not the case.

Of course, if the misinformation this telegram purportedly responds to was itself sent in a mass telegram form, then our delegation would be willing to withdraw our current vote against this proposal.

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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:09 pm

Opiachus wrote:
The Ice States wrote:Reposting from here for posterity, the following tag:wa telegram was sent as to this proposal,
Please vote for the Police Accountability Act.

~snip~

I have spent around £12 on bringing this telegram to you, and to everyone who needs to hear it*. That could buy me a good book or a nice lunch... or four cups of coffee. Instead, I am using it to educate you about what the Police Accountability Act will mean for your nation, and to ensure that you know why the claims being made about my Act are false.

~snip~


Our delegation to the WA will be voting AGAINST the Police Accountability Act due to the mass transmission of telegram spam by the author of the resolution. To quote the opinion of the WA Office of the region Europe regarding similar telegram spam for a previous resolution that reached vote and was defeated (Against Quorum Raiding):

European WA Office wrote:European residents have expressed their dislike for telegram spam of this sort and have empowered the government writ large to take action to disincentivise its use. We also have stood against the proposition that World Assembly proposals should be passed (or materially influenced) by expenditure of real world money.


Our government fully agrees with this opinion that WA resolutions should face a level playing field, no matter which nation submits the resolution or what the content of the resolution is, and especially no matter the authoring nation's WA campaigning budget. If a proposal can't stand on its own contents at the WA voting floor then it is not strong enough to become a WA resolution - it needs to either be re-written or, alternatively, the ideas it advocates for are simply not popular enough. Attempts at lobbying the WA voting process using national finances simply must be resisted in any circumstance, no matter the good faith of the author.

As well, it is not an acceptable solution to simply exclude known anti-telegram regions such as Europe (quoted above) or other well-known ones. This assumes that messaging the residents of other, lesser-known regions is more acceptable because their delegates have a lesser ability to retaliate, or that they should have less of an ability to object, which is not the case.

Of course, if the misinformation this telegram purportedly responds to was itself sent in a mass telegram form, then our delegation would be willing to withdraw our current vote against this proposal.


The difference is that Europe has a well-known, official, position against campaign telegrams, and, as such, I'm sure they and 10000 Islands were excluded from this telegram, as was every nation that blocks campaign telegrams. This wasn't "spam"
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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:34 pm

Whatever telegram Tinhampton sent out I did not receive, fyi.

Edit: Although that might be because I am voting for this resolution.
Last edited by Fachumonn on Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kostane
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Postby Kostane » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:36 pm

Fachumonn wrote:Whatever telegram Tinhampton sent out I did not receive, fyi.

That's strange. I believe it was posted above in this thread anyways.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:40 pm

Fachumonn wrote:Whatever telegram Tinhampton sent out I did not receive, fyi.

Edit: Although that might be because I am voting for this resolution.

Per the disclaimer at the bottom it was not sent to nations voting for; I also did not receive it and was voting for.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:09 pm

I was not aware that Opiachus had a position against campaign spam, and would have excluded him from the telegram had I known. I am only aware of four regions with anti-campaign-spam laws: Europe, 10000 Islands (and their frontier, A Taco Paradise), and Blue Ridge.

I excluded these four regions, all other MGC regions, and The West Pacific from the telegram. (I also excluded FOR voters; they don't need to hear from me explaining why they're vindicated in their support.) In fact, about 12,500 people received my telegram. None of them come from regions with institutional ACS provisions. I do not appreciate being told by someone else what my beliefs about ACS laws are: I believe that they are a tool which some regions freely choose to implement, and which should be followed to the maximal extent possible where they exist.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Katinea
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Postby Katinea » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:47 am

The Overmind wrote:
Katinea wrote:OOC: The problem is I need to say in the WA for regional Security Purposes. Do the resolutions do anything or are they just RP? And can I decanonise them?

The resolutions affect your nation's stats, and they are RP. If you RP noncompliance then you will be RP sanctioned by the Compliance Commission in accordance with the Administrative Compliance Act.

What I mean is does it affect II or RMB RP? Say, for example, a Resolution banning War passed, would I still be allowed to do War RP? Or if cars were banned, could I RP having Cars in my country?
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Postby Kenmoria » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:50 am

Katinea wrote:
The Overmind wrote:The resolutions affect your nation's stats, and they are RP. If you RP noncompliance then you will be RP sanctioned by the Compliance Commission in accordance with the Administrative Compliance Act.

What I mean is does it affect II or RMB RP? Say, for example, a Resolution banning War passed, would I still be allowed to do War RP? Or if cars were banned, could I RP having Cars in my country?

(OOC: The GA canon, the II canon, and the RMB canon do not have to intersect. Nobody from the GA will storm into the II forum or into your region’s RMB to demand that you alter your roleplay. Noncompliance only exists in the context of the roleplay involving the GA, which can include roleplay elsewhere in NationStates, but doesn’t have to do so.)
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Katinea
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Postby Katinea » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:52 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Katinea wrote:What I mean is does it affect II or RMB RP? Say, for example, a Resolution banning War passed, would I still be allowed to do War RP? Or if cars were banned, could I RP having Cars in my country?

(OOC: The GA canon, the II canon, and the RMB canon do not have to intersect. Nobody from the GA will storm into the II forum or into your region’s RMB to demand that you alter your roleplay. Noncompliance only exists in the context of the roleplay involving the GA, which can include roleplay elsewhere in NationStates, but doesn’t have to do so.)

OOC: So if War was banned I could still do a War RP in II, But if I am doing GA-Based RP, I can't say "this resolution never happened/doesnt exist"?
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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:54 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Katinea wrote:What I mean is does it affect II or RMB RP? Say, for example, a Resolution banning War passed, would I still be allowed to do War RP? Or if cars were banned, could I RP having Cars in my country?

(OOC: The GA canon, the II canon, and the RMB canon do not have to intersect. Nobody from the GA will storm into the II forum or into your region’s RMB to demand that you alter your roleplay. Noncompliance only exists in the context of the roleplay involving the GA, which can include roleplay elsewhere in NationStates, but doesn’t have to do so.)


Yep. In fact, many people RP a completely different nation in the GA than the one supported by their gameside nation.
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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:55 am

Katinea wrote:But if I am doing GA-Based RP, I can't say "this resolution never happened/doesnt exist"?


You can certainly RP a nation that attempts to gaslight the GA, so I wouldn't go as far as to say you "can't" say that. But it will get some interesting RP replies.
Last edited by The Overmind on Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Katinea
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Postby Katinea » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:56 am

The Overmind wrote:
Katinea wrote:But if I am doing GA-Based RP, I can't say "this resolution never happened/doesnt exist"?


You can certainly RP a nation that attempts to gaslight the GA, so I wouldn't go as far as to say you can't "say" that. But it will get some interesting RP replies.

Im mainly just worried about resolutions, such as this one, affecting my Nation's lore or RPs
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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:58 am

Katinea wrote:
The Overmind wrote:
You can certainly RP a nation that attempts to gaslight the GA, so I wouldn't go as far as to say you can't "say" that. But it will get some interesting RP replies.

Im mainly just worried about resolutions, such as this one, affecting my Nation's lore or RPs


As Kenmoria said, you are ultimately the arbiter of whether or not GA canon applies to your nation in any other context. That's up to you.
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Bisofeyr
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Postby Bisofeyr » Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:15 am

Katinea wrote:
The Overmind wrote:
You can certainly RP a nation that attempts to gaslight the GA, so I wouldn't go as far as to say you can't "say" that. But it will get some interesting RP replies.

Im mainly just worried about resolutions, such as this one, affecting my Nation's lore or RPs

Obviously not all RPs that are had are compatible with one another, even if we go down to a simple enough action such as "real-world location", as there are undoubtedly nations that RP as occupying the same space on the Earth. The primary thing, with all RP, is not to enter that space and begin asserting that your way is the one true way of doing things. This goes for the GA as well: you can certainly RP noncompliance, but you ought to RP the trade sanctions made onto your nation and the natural economic consequences as well, and to do otherwise would be a form of godmodding. If you aren't active in the GA or don't attempt to make these claims internal to the WA, then no one is going to be an asshole and assert that you follow our RP specifically; the issue only arises when you decide to join the GA RP canon, and then fail to adapt to what that canon entails.

There are also small ways around this if you really care about the GA RP canon; my nation uses an off-site World Assembly Mission, for instance, because Bisofeyr itself could not handle the economic or sociological consequences of being subject to all World Assembly resolutions, given its incredibly primitive nature.

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Oromos
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Postby Oromos » Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:49 am

And who is supposed to check whenever the state uses police forces "correctly"? The World Assembly? In my opinion it's just another resolution, that's made to increase the control of the most influential states, and interfere with states' domestic policy. It will allow for exploitation of slightiest forms of abuse in order to sanction and punish political enemies of those with most power. I say; we shouldn't interefere with one's domestic policy, and the World Assembly should focus only on keeping world peace.

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WeSuckia
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Postby WeSuckia » Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:54 am

Since I have been recently informed that my old thread had been merged into this, i'll repost my initial post. :)
To reiterate:
The PAA (Police Accountability act) is worthless, and if passed, will make the World Assembly even more invasive. Let me explain. ;)
Notably, Tinhampton has sent out a mass telegram to thousands of countries and WA delegates across the world.
This is obviously a ploy to get us countries to have empathy for TInhampton because they spent a pretty penny to get this passed.
(According to the telegram, he spent 12 pounds sending it)
He obviously knows that the results of this are extremely close together, and that all will go to waste if he doesn't pass it.

Going away from TInhampton, the PAA will carve out our police force, effectively making the WA in control of the rules of our police force.
We should be able to control our own police force without the World Assembly holding our hands.

This is why, to all suckers and like minded thinkers, to vote AGAINST this tyrannical act, and to improve our national independence. :)
LET ME PUT MODS ON MY FOES LIST!!!!!!
i also lobbied against the police accountability act :D

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WeSuckia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Mar 16, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby WeSuckia » Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:56 am

Oromos wrote:And who is supposed to check whenever the state uses police forces "correctly"? The World Assembly? In my opinion it's just another resolution, that's made to increase the control of the most influential states, and interfere with states' domestic policy. It will allow for exploitation of slightiest forms of abuse in order to sanction and punish political enemies of those with most power. I say; we shouldn't interefere with one's domestic policy, and the World Assembly should focus only on keeping world peace.

I completely agree with you, the World Assembly is clearly overstepping it's boundaries by stepping into a nation's personal matters. :)
While I have no qualms with, say, a nuclear proliferation act, an act making the WA able to effectively court our police forces with this, is just simply unacceptable. >:(
Last edited by WeSuckia on Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
LET ME PUT MODS ON MY FOES LIST!!!!!!
i also lobbied against the police accountability act :D

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