[PASSED] Commend The Rejected Realms

[Westinor]

Thank you, Cat. I may seriously need to begin thinking of dropping this and starting a Condemn the The Rejected Realms, accompanied by a Liberation to free it from the dredges of fascism and defending it is mired in. And then a Declaration that "Cat Was Right". Much appreciated.

More feedback would be lovely ^-^ (not on the above. please.)

[Cappedore]

I may have missed this somewhere (I'm in a bit of a rush and very tired at the same time so I skimmed through the proposal a bit lol) but something obvious may be to mention TRR's status as a home for those wrongfully removed from, or forced to defect from, their native region as a result of raids / griefing, etc...

[Westinor]

I may have missed this somewhere (I'm in a bit of a rush and very tired at the same time so I skimmed through the proposal a bit lol) but something obvious may be to mention TRR's status as a home for those wrongfully removed from, or forced to defect from, their native region as a result of raids / griefing, etc...

Hi yeah! So, this is included - but I didn't want to specifically accredit the region for something that it is. Similar to how it would be strange to commend a Feeder for being a home for founded nations, or a Sinker for being a home for refounded ones, it doesn't make sense to commend them for that solely - GCRs don't get credit for being GCRs. In my argument, though, TRR is commendable for taking this in stride many times throughout history, and helping enable many, while creating a support system to create a surprisingly stable and democratic system that has lasted for over a decade, and managed to keep TRR not only as a fairly present player but an active and in many cases, leading one in interregional politics.

[Cappedore]

I may have missed this somewhere (I'm in a bit of a rush and very tired at the same time so I skimmed through the proposal a bit lol) but something obvious may be to mention TRR's status as a home for those wrongfully removed from, or forced to defect from, their native region as a result of raids / griefing, etc...

Hi yeah! So, this is included - but I didn't want to specifically accredit the region for something that it is. Similar to how it would be strange to commend a Feeder for being a home for founded nations, or a Sinker for being a home for refounded ones, it doesn't make sense to commend them for that solely - GCRs don't get credit for being GCRs. In my argument, though, TRR is commendable for taking this in stride many times throughout history, and helping enable many, while creating a support system to create a surprisingly stable and democratic system that has lasted for over a decade, and managed to keep TRR not only as a fairly present player but an active and in many cases, leading one in interregional politics.

Cool! Makes sense. This is a sound proposal :)

[The Spartan Dominion]

Support

[Zanderlock]

Yes'nt
Yes in theory
No in practice

Yes: I want to commend it
No: I don't know how to explain WHY!

[Eternal Algerstonia]

Yes'nt
Yes in theory
No in practice

Yes: I want to commend it
No: I don't know how to explain WHY!

this is 100% true

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Yes'nt
Yes in theory
No in practice

Yes: I want to commend it
No: I don't know how to explain WHY!

Then don’t bother posting. If you’ve no input to make you’re wasting everyones time.

[Past beans]

Yes'nt
Yes in theory
No in practice

Yes: I want to commend it
No: I don't know how to explain WHY!

then don't post you goof!


also I don't think it's worth commending a region based off the people who couldn't behave.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

It’s very rare that I will criticise one of your drafts Westinor, but I believe I can summarise this one in a few bullet points.

TRR are:

• A defender region
• Have lots of treaties with other defender regions
• Hold some cultural events

All of which are applicable to plenty of other regions. Sorry, but I think most of the draft is fluff and filler, where it should be precise and accurate. Yes it’s wonderfully written, but I get the feeling of smoke and mirrors.

[The State of Entrus]

I do think that TRR has some qualities that could be argued are worth a Commend, but I do think many of the accomplishments that were referenced in the draft could be attributed more or less to a few individuals, rather than the region itself.

I think this draft needs to include more reasons to commend TRR than the ones which were stated, while ignoring the unique mechanics of the region itself.

[Westinor]

It’s very rare that I will criticise one of your drafts Westinor, but I believe I can summarise your draft in a few bullet points.

TRR are:

• A defender region
• Have lots of treaties with other defender regions
• Hold some cultural events

All of which are applicable to plenty of other regions. Sorry, but I think most of the draft is fluff and filler, where it should be precise and accurate. Yes it’s wonderfully written, but I get the feeling of smoke and mirrors.

That's completely fair! Personally I feel that it's not fluffed up or exaggerated in any sense - while it's easy to point to the pure content of what I've laid out and say that it's not particularly unique, I think approaching it from this perspective yields a few downsides. The first is that from a gameplay region perspective, which TRR uniquely is, many regions can be thumbed down to being a defender region with lots of treaties with other defenders accompanied by some cultural events. By their nature, this is what regions do, and so it's fair to argue this isn't unique. However, I argue this is a product of the lens through which this proposal is being viewed, as opposed to the actual language itself. Taking a look at recent regional commends or drafts, Spiritus can be thumbed down to "Being a defender region, having treaties with defender regions, doing some cultural things, plus potatoes". In fact, the scale of all of these things are lesser than that of TRR's - the breadth of impact of the RRA, the number of treaties and their relative impact, the number of cultural events, etc. I would argue that does not make Spiritus a lesser commend or not deserving - it's a well written and well argued draft because it clearly states why these are not your usual treaties nor your usual cultural events. Similarly, Caer Sidi can be argued to simply be "they did some cultural events". Again, what might end up distinguishing Caer Sidi and that draft is distinguishing why these cultural events are so important within the context of other cultural events and NS as a whole. That does not make the simple fact that they hold only cultural events not commend-worthy. A step back further and we get to commend AO, which, again, we can summarize into "holds sports tournaments, has nations in it that play sports well, create flags, do Z-Day, and roleplay some conflicts". Here there are some holes; it might be valid criticism to say that other regions roleplay conflicts, do Z-day better than AO, or also have nations that play sports plenty. That does not mean that AO is not distinguished just because the layout of the proposal and what the region generally does is not inherently different without context. The actual base of the proposal does not differ too much because most regions do certain things.

Why do I make these comparisons? Because it's key to note that with context and language taken into account, that I feel these drafts mostly successfully make the case for why the regions are more than what the simple layout states. Spiritus exemplifies its uniquely casual culture, and even though the SDF has never been among the top dogs of defending for any extended or notable period of time, nor has the Potato Alliance ever won an N-Day event, there is that unique facet of their culture that is touched on which makes the case for that commend. Caer Sidi's draft might not be there yet, but their approach to culture is innovative and fresh and prolific and new. AO has a breadth of sports experience that, while argued to not be expressed to its full extent in the drafting thread, is at least still there and mentioned in their membership and tournaments. This all comes through the argument, and I feel it is the same for this draft - in at least some extent.

To firstly address your bullet points. 1. TRR is a defender region. This is true. I expand then, that TRR was a founding member of the ADN, an organization whose proprietors and actions have been commended and lauded time and time again by this council. It wasn't a region that sat on its ass the entire time it was there, either - TRR was a major bulk of the ADN's actual standing force, its leaders and continued presence were a large reason for why the ADN operated smoothly instead of falling into a bureaucratic mess that it seemed to be destined to implode into in its earliest days under the constitution, and they have been cited among Equilism, Nasi, and TWP as being the heart of that org. This extends beyond - they are not only a defender region in name. They were a key part of the FRA, particularly in the back half of its existence, with many RRA members like Frattastan, like Karputsk, like Guy, like Dyr, like Wop, who were key in leading it through so many operations (all of whom have been commended for those very actions) - but I'm aware that this can just be attributed to individual work. So I made sure not to drop those names, because it's not about the ops they led or the regions saved. The FRA was particularly unique in many ways in its culture of defending, being zealous in its defending style and promoting active defending as a way for many to get involved - and members like Fratt were not only contributors to the overall culture of the FRA that allowed it to last so long and be the longest standing defender alliance in history, but beneficiaries of it - and I make the argument that this culture was supported and in many ways caused by TRR and the RRA's presence in the alliance. This contextualizes the argument that TRR is not only a defender region, but a historic one, which has had its places in many alliances not only as a back bench member but a leading and direction-changing one.

2. Lots of treaties with other defender regions - I lay out too why these are important. This clause is not a filler one intended to mention the treaties - the treaties are only encapsulations of the general trends that TRR played, a defender region known for its historic role (laid out above) and reliable because of that. TRR has been an easy first step for regions looking for connections in the defender alliance. That's why I lay out the January Accords here - signed in 2018, this was when the SPSF started learning towards the defender sphere, and this relationship with TRR that was being built was a step in them moving towards defending as a region. TRR played a key role in that it was easier to reach out to them instead of more zealous or immoderate regions like XKI or TGW for diplomatic purposes, not to mention that they've been a defender region for so long. This pattern was reflected in the XYZ accords, showing that TRR has been that presence over the years, being that the XYZ accords were a symbolization of some of the surging members of the defender faction at the time next to TRR. The Treaty of Friendship, as noted, builds on top of the first point raised, in that TRR was always that historic anchor for the faction, making it easier for isolationist XKI to step out and start forming the bonds with the defender faction that have now allowed them to fight together on a greater scale with better coordination and effect than before. These treaties are the display of the effect TRR has had on regions throughout history as a region, as a partner, and as an actor on an interregional scale throughout decades.

3. Cultural events - while "some cultural events" is easy to thumb down, I would note that Rejectmas and Popmaster are incredibly fun and uniquely constructed activities in TRR that have kept the culture in a region that has no easy way of ensuring activity (unlike a feeder, for example - they don't get new fresh nations, they get nations ejected from regions they probably want to go back to or bad apples) incredibly thriving relative throughout history. At its peaks these regional games and activities were held consistently and drew in incredible turnout (particularly seeing as how these kinds of activities are often pretty low turnout, from my experience throughout regions - numbers like ten peeps at a time are crazy!) and have furthermore been pretty crucial in bringing in participants from everywhere because this is one of the only places that holds certain cultural events, with a basis for them, experienced peeps to hold them, and a vibe that makes it fun. I personally was introduced to TRR by way of Diplomacy, which while not TRR-created or anything of the sort, TRR has lots of incredibly fun diplomacy players and the vibe they uphold is what makes the activity fun and engaging. If we want to talk quantity as well, TRR has been a part of a hell of a lot of festivals, and the now incredibly popular theme thursdays/tuesdays/mondays/whatever the hell that seem to be the only thing that can be continuously managed when cultural ministries are at their low and are a huge bonding experience for Discord Servers at their high were incredibly popularized by TRR.

Then there's the OTHER things. While not too much space is dedicated to it, TRT and the LSK are amazing - check them out if you have the time, because the Library of Spurned Knowledge is where I know I got my start learning about NS History. And I don't think most players who've been around for a while don't know that TRT has been, in the past, an active, interesting, and unique contributor to the NS media environment that is often so lackluster.

The larger point that is made as well is that TRR managed to get through its earliest years of inactivity, of suppression at the hands of a delegate who had no interest in furthering the region's growth or place on the foreign stage, of being attacked by raiders when it first had no structure and of later being exposed to attacks like that by Emperor Matthius at the time when simply hard piling into TRR wasn't as developed, recognized, or as effective of a strategy (though the understanding that it was a possibility obviously may as well have deterred longer term occupations). When, by all rights, TRR could very well have had as transient of a structure as some Warzones might have, they have instead blossomed into a massive region not filled with exiles and ejected puppets but a vibrant community of interested and active players who have been leading members of NS communities for years. You can ask any Reject - TRR for many has been a home not only for them to be in during their off time, as so many regions can be, but as a place for them to develop and hone their skills, to become better NSers, and to enable them to become the players that have been commended, that have been praised in discord channels and forum threads. TRR is more than just a region - it's a community that has survived a past few can compare to, developing a unique system to counterbalance the issues its veterans have become so familiar with, and it has continued to take it in stride as best as any GCR can through twenty years of history.

As always, BBD, I think your advice and feedback is incredibly warranted and well put. This is no different, and I appreciate that you made your thoughts clear - this is fair, and I hope that my explanation makes sense, because I do not think that this draft is just that. I feel that I have laid out much more in terms of argument - if there are things to contest there, I am glad to see what I can do, as always!! But while smoke and mirrors is a common thing for Commend TRR drafts, I can say that little to none of what I've written is conjecture or assumption. At least I hope, lol - I understand that history can be muddled, but the arguments laid out should be taken at face value if possible, I think. I've tried not to lay out too many numbers and ops and whatnot because this is not a commend for the individual work of many players - this is a commend for a community.

[Comfed]

I agree with West; this draft makes a convincing case.

[Haganham]

Yes'nt
Yes in theory
No in practice

Yes: I want to commend it
No: I don't know how to explain WHY!

Then don’t bother posting. If you’ve no input to make you’re wasting everyones time.

Ironic

[Westinor]

Would like to bring this to Last Call! Please let me know if there are any other comments, feedback, or concerns - I recognize this is a weighty proposal, and if there are any issues at all I'd like to be able to address them before submission. Thanks very much :>

[Westinor]

This has been submitted! It can be approved here: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1684569131 :>

[0cala]

TRR's RMB is the Chernobyl of NS, make sure to always wear a hazard suit while inside the premises.
Im For this commendation.

[TheKeyToJoy]

I am against it. The Rejected Realms is home to the most vile, cruel, and unjust nations who don't deserve to be in a region at all. Those who got banished there got banished for a reason. Also, TRR doesn't teach offenders the lesson of not to do wrong again, instead, it encourages it, for it is the only ban-free zone. I am against commending the realms.

As a rejected realms member, I find this quite absurd, and ignorant.

Anyway… I’d Commend the Rejected Realms. The people that work there aren’t getting enough respect for what they do.

Orcuo and I are TRR residents, this is just pure cuntish behavior, I am offended. Oh yeah I support this.

[Orcuo]

Personally Excited. Hope it passes!

[Mlakhavia]

Personally-- support.

[Malphe II]

Support.

[The North Polish Union]

Opposed to any C/C of admin-created regions. Being gifted favorable conditions does not make a region worthy of SC recognition, quite the opposite in fact.

[Stratonesia]

I'm from TRR.
The sig says it all.
So, 1000% support.

[Democratic Poopland]

Support! As stated above, it's a great rehabilitation zone.

[Unibot III]

Opposed to any C/C of admin-created regions. Being gifted favorable conditions does not make a region worthy of SC recognition, quite the opposite in fact.

What happens when frontiers are up for commendation in the future?