[PASSED] Condemn Dream Killers

[Chef Big Dog]

Hello! Making my first foray into the SC with a resolution that I think is long overdue. Dream Killers was a key leader in early Unknown and a driving force during one of LWU's more successful periods and I think his actions more than warrant condemnation by this body.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

The Security Council,

Recognizing Dream Killers as a destructive force that has plagued the international community since the foundation of its predecessor state in 2008, serving as an influential leader of several infamous invader organizations throughout history;

Concerned that upon their entrance to the international scene, Dream Killers turned to one of the most notorious imperialist regions in existence, The New Inquisition, where they studied the tactics of invading, thus sowing the seeds of their future infamous deeds;

Alarmed by the fact that Dream Killers, driven by a desire to destroy, turned away from their former home in The New Inquisition to join the newly founded invader region Unknown. Within Unknown, they swiftly proved their dedication to destruction, rising to the rank of Field Marshal, serving as Director of Regional Intelligence and attaining the title of Crown Prince. Dream Killers played a major role in keeping Unknown active and functioning, indirectly enabling the invasion and destruction of dozens of regions, in addition to organizing and leading invasions directly. Among their foul deeds during this time are:

• The occupation of South America, an invasion organized by Dream Killers in coordination with the New Inquisition and the Dominion. The raid was significant at the time, with the invaders purging the region of the defender nations that remained to protect it, and was used as a point of propaganda by the invading parties to motivate future raids.
  
• The invasion of New Sorvun, a member region of the Founderless Regions Alliance, on the 5th of August 2009 where a coalition of raider regions led by Unknown went against standard practices of the time by invading the foundered region which was enabled by the inactivity of the founder nation. Dream Killers organized and led the operation, and was responsible for the mass ejections of natives from their homeland that followed, and
  
• The infiltration of Eagle Clan, a joint operation between Unknown and The Black Hawks which resulted in the invasion of the region. Dream Killers, along with a number of operatives from both Unknown and The Black Hawks infiltrated the region before razing it to the ground.

Following their attainment of international infamy with Unknown, Dream Killers vanished for several years, but they were to return in a darker, more evil form.

Shocked by the return of Dream Killers to the international stage in 2015, joining the ranks of Lone Wolves United. Serving as Khalif and Director of the Department of Established External Relations, Dream Killers was tasked with spreading invader propaganda and glorifying the destructive actions of Lone Wolves United on the international stage, as well as collaborating with other regions of ill repute such as The Black Hawks, HYDRA Command, and Unknown, working to coordinate mutual military support to enhance the destructiveness of invasions and decrease the likelihood of innocent regions being freed from invader occupation;

Aghast at Dream Killers’ leading role in various invasions, including as regional officer during the invasions of Korovia and Coalition of Sovereign Nations and assisting in organizing the invasion of City Ankh Morpork, a raid which broke the native delegate’s reign of 1541 days and disrupted a quiet and peaceful community solely for the purpose of celebrating Lone Wolves United’s tenth anniversary;

Horrified by Dream Killers’ appointment to the position of Il-Khan, effectively leading the region alongside Elysium Station II, upon which Lone Wolves United took a more vicious turn, prioritizing the destruction of innocent regions and mass ejections of native nations. Dream Killers would continue building upon their previous work by overseeing the invasion of Jahkku, where 87 native and defender nations would be ejected before the withdrawal of invader forces, and helped organize and served as regional officer in the invasion of Bus Stop which led to the closure of 161 embassies and would only be saved from complete destruction by the return of the founder nation;

Appalled by Dream Killers’ long history of creating and maintaining invader infrastructure, enabling the vile organizations they served under to continue their reigns of terror. Dream Killers’ dedication and activity behind the scenes greatly contributed to the activity and stability of their regions, allowing for their fellow invaders to occupy and destroy. Dream Killers’ work was often done in the shadows, working tirelessly to counter attempts by defenders to hinder the destructive actions of Lone Wolves United and Unknown;

Asserting that throughout their long history leading and assisting invaders Dream Killers has committed heinous acts motivated by their hatred towards peace and desire to sow chaos that should be condemned by this body;

Hereby Condemns Dream Killers.

Co-authors: A Bloodred Moon, Hulldom.

The Security Council,

Recognizing Dream Killers, also known as Cain, as a destructive force that has plagued the international community since the foundation of its predecessor state in 2008, serving as an influential leader of several infamous invader organizations throughout history;

Concerned that upon their entrance to the international scene, Dream Killers turned to one of the most notorious imperialist regions in existence, The New Inquisition (TNI) where they learned the mechanics of invading, thus laying the foundations for their further infamous deeds;

Alarmed by the fact that Dream Killers turned away from TNI during a period of stagnation to join the newly founded invader region Unknown. Within Unknown, they swiftly proved their dedication to destruction, rising to the rank of Field Marshal and serving as Director of Regional Intelligence. Among their foul deeds during this time are:

• The invasion of New Sorvun, a member region of the Founderless Regions Alliance, on the 5th of August 2009 where a coalition of raider regions led by Unknown went against standard practices of the time by invading the foundered region which was enabled by the inactivity of the founder nation. Dream Killers organized and led the operation, and was responsible for the mass ejections of natives from their homeland that followed, and
  
• The infiltration of Eagle Clan, a joint operation between Unknown and The Black Hawks which resulted in the invasion of the region. Dream Killers, along with a number of operatives from both Unknown and the Black Hawks infiltrated the region before razing it to the ground.

Following their attainment of international infamy with TNI and Unknown, Dream Killers vanished for several years, but they were to return in a darker, more evil form.

Shocked by the return of Dream Killers to the international stage in 2015, joining the ranks of Lone Wolves United. Serving as Khalif and Director of the Department of Established External Relations (DEER), Dream Killer was tasked with spreading invader propaganda and glorifying the destructive actions of Lone Wolves United on the international stage, as well as collaborating with other regions of ill repute such as The Black Hawks, HYDRA Command, and Unknown, working to coordinate mutual military support to enhance the destructiveness of invasions and decrease the likelihood of innocent regions being freed from invader occupation;

Aghast at Dream Killers’ leading role in various invasions, including as regional officer during the invasions of Korovia and Coalition of Sovereign Nations and assisting in organizing the invasion of City Ankh Morpork, a raid which broke the native delegate’s reign of 1541 days and disrupted a quiet and peaceful community solely for the purpose of celebrating Lone Wolves United’s tenth anniversary;

Horrified by Dream Killers’ appointment to the position of Il-Khan, effectively leading the region alongside Elysium Station II, upon which Lone Wolves United took a more vicious turn, prioritizing the destruction of innocent regions and mass ejections of native nations. Dream Killers would continue building upon their previous work by overseeing the invasion of Jahkku, where 87 native and defender nations would be ejected before the withdrawal of invader forces, and helped organize and served as regional officer in the invasion of Bus Stop which led to the closure of 161 embassies and would only be saved from complete destruction by the return of the founder nation;

Appalled by Dream Killers’ long history of creating and maintaining invader infrastructure, enabling the vile organizations they served under to continue their reigns of terror. Dream Killers’ dedication and activity behind the scenes greatly contributed to the activity and stability of their regions, allowing for their fellow invaders to occupy and destroy;

Asserting that throughout their long history leading and assisting invaders Dream Killers’ committed innumerable heinous acts that should be condemned by this body;

Hereby condemns Dream Killers.

Co-authors: A Bloodred Moon, Hulldom.

[The Ice States]

I assume the nominee is the player Cain? I think if so, it would be worth stating in the draft that Dream Killers is also known as Cain for the sake of clarity.

Edit: Also, I noticed "Invasion" is capitalised in the New Sorvun clause -- is this deliberate?

[Westinor]

Awesome to see you drafting around here Tom!

Recognizing Dream Killers as a destructive force that has plagued the international community since the foundation of its predecessor state in 2008,

Would love it if you could name the "predecessor state" here, it's a bit ambiguous as is and while I'm assuming it's referring to, like, a previous nation DK operated out of it's a little unclear and spares only a few characters to do.

Concerned that upon their entrance to the international scene, Dream Killers turned to one of the most notorious imperialist regions in existence, The New Inquisition (TNI) where they learned the mechanics of invading, thus laying the foundations for their further infamous deeds;

I appreciate that you take the time to pivot over to their time in TNI and set up their introduction to raiding, but it would probably be a good idea if you could expand a little bit more on their time in TNI so that it doesn't feel like this is a throwaway clause, since "learning the mechanics" without very much payoff feels a little bit strange. If they attained a certain rank or participated in anything, or even learned from anyone a particular thing that allowed them to later pull of a greater feat, it would be great if you could attribute that here; as is, the clause feels like it's intended to be more but isn't, particularly since the next clause links back to TNI but only notes that there was "a period of stagnation" that caused them to leave, leaving very little payoff whatsoever.

Following their attainment of international infamy with TNI and Unknown, Dream Killers vanished for several years, but they were to return in a darker, more evil form.

I absolutely love and appreciate the direction this clause is going, and it affords thematic structure without being too overboard with it. Would like it if this were maybe played on a little bit more though, either with slight expansion and details that may color the story-like presentation of this proposal and lend more to this clause as a transitional beat vs. a "this is what happened" statement or with more references (somehow) to this later in the proposal, if possible.

It's definitely well-written, though given that I do not know the nominee very well and that the proposal seems somewhat limited at times in the presentation of their accomplishments I'm not absolutely sweepingly convinced of condemnability. I trust the judgement of the author + co-authors, but in general am still a little bit wavering in terms of support purely based off the proposal - would love it if y'all could change my mind!!

Serving as Khalif and Director of DEER,

What is DEER? I am not a knower D:

[Chef Big Dog]

I assume the nominee is the player Cain? I think if so, it would be worth stating in the draft that Dream Killers is also known as Cain for the sake of clarity.

Edit: Also, I noticed "Invasion" is capitalised in the New Sorvun clause -- is this deliberate?

Yes Dream Killers is Cain. I have clarified that and lowercased the 'I' in invasion. Thanks for the feedback.

Would love it if you could name the "predecessor state" here, it's a bit ambiguous as is and while I'm assuming it's referring to, like, a previous nation DK operated out of it's a little unclear and spares only a few characters to do.

Yeah it's referring to his first nation KillJoy Snipers. I didn't include it since it doesn't really feel necessary to me.

I appreciate that you take the time to pivot over to their time in TNI and set up their introduction to raiding, but it would probably be a good idea if you could expand a little bit more on their time in TNI so that it doesn't feel like this is a throwaway clause, since "learning the mechanics" without very much payoff feels a little bit strange. If they attained a certain rank or participated in anything, or even learned from anyone a particular thing that allowed them to later pull of a greater feat, it would be great if you could attribute that here; as is, the clause feels like it's intended to be more but isn't, particularly since the next clause links back to TNI but only notes that there was "a period of stagnation" that caused them to leave, leaving very little payoff whatsoever.

Very fair, I will attempt to flesh out the TNI clause a bit more. I included it since the inactivity of TNI at the time is what led to him getting involved in raider organizations.

I absolutely love and appreciate the direction this clause is going, and it affords thematic structure without being too overboard with it. Would like it if this were maybe played on a little bit more though, either with slight expansion and details that may color the story-like presentation of this proposal and lend more to this clause as a transitional beat vs. a "this is what happened" statement or with more references (somehow) to this later in the proposal, if possible.

It's definitely well-written, though given that I do not know the nominee very well and that the proposal seems somewhat limited at times in the presentation of their accomplishments I'm not absolutely sweepingly convinced of condemnability. I trust the judgement of the author + co-authors, but in general am still a little bit wavering in terms of support purely based off the proposal - would love it if y'all could change my mind!!

Re-reading it I get what you're saying with story point. I will tweak the proposal so it fits more thematically. For as the the limited nature of some of the presentation of accomplishments, do you have any particular parts you'd like to see expanded on aside from the TNI part you mentioned earlier?

What is DEER? I am not a knower D:

Department of Established External Relations(LWU FA Dept). I have changed the acronym in the proposal to the full name for the sake of clarity.

[Westinor]

Westinor wrote:
Would love it if you could name the "predecessor state" here, it's a bit ambiguous as is and while I'm assuming it's referring to, like, a previous nation DK operated out of it's a little unclear and spares only a few characters to do.

Yeah it's referring to his first nation KillJoy Snipers. I didn't include it since it doesn't really feel necessary to me.

That's fair - being that you've got a pretty good amount of character space to work with, I think it would be a positive inclusion if addable.

For as the the limited nature of some of the presentation of accomplishments, do you have any particular parts you'd like to see expanded on aside from the TNI part you mentioned earlier?

Right, so I think that a few add-ons so that it's clear why certain actions/roles are condemnable would be good:

Dream Killer was tasked with spreading invader propaganda and glorifying the destructive actions of Lone Wolves United on the international stage, as well as collaborating with other regions of ill repute such as The Black Hawks, HYDRA Command, and Unknown, working to coordinate mutual military support to enhance the destructiveness of invasions and decrease the likelihood of innocent regions being freed from invader occupation;

This honestly functions fine on its own and lets me know what the nominee did; however, it would feel very strong if you could point to key examples of this (can even be just one or two regions - I'm aware you have examples in the next clause but it's not at all clear if they were impacted by DK's work in this clause, in that they are credited as RO for two of the three which isn't necessarily contingent on the points laid out here).

Horrified by Dream Killers’ appointment to the position of Il-Khan, effectively leading the region alongside Elysium Station II, upon which Lone Wolves United took a more vicious turn, prioritizing the destruction of innocent regions and mass ejections of native nations. Dream Killers would continue building upon their previous work by overseeing the invasion of Jahkku, where 87 native and defender nations would be ejected before the withdrawal of invader forces, and helped organize and served as regional officer in the invasion of Bus Stop which led to the closure of 161 embassies and would only be saved from complete destruction by the return of the founder nation;

This is the crux of the proposal to me, as the culmination of the "second act" - the issue is that it 1. ends on a kind of bitter note in that the two examples are qualified with "before the withdrawal of invader forces" and "saved from complete destruction by the return of the founder" which, while I understand do not actually necessarily detract from the depth of the victory (though I'd argue the second one might) certainly make the weight of this clause fall flat. I'm not saying you should remove these key details, but surely there are better examples if the nominee's actions truly spurred a certifiably different approach that looked to destruction - even minor regions being destroyed en-masse would feel like it held more weight than these, personally; 2. is that the position of Il-Khan seems to imply that the nominee was responsible for LWU's more vicious turn, but if you're going to go about creating a greater story theme I think that you could consider linking this more directly to the nominee. Additionally, if there's any overarching theme following the nominee's return to raiding, as in maybe a sort of focus on uniting raiders to assert themselves in a more forceful faction or something similar, capitalizing on that with similar language or references between clauses could make this narrative seem stronger as well. Good to know what DEER stood for, thanks for the clarification.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

Opposed on principle. Appalling that condemnations continue to be abused for this type of self-congratulatory behavior.

[Honeydewistania]

What's with the Security Council being overrun by mediocre proposals to condemn bit-part LWU members?

[HumanSanity]

Condemnations for raiders remain bad regardless of if they are condemnations for the set of raiders who have tricked Independents into thinking they care about them.

[Quebecshire]

What's with the Security Council being overrun by mediocre proposals to condemn bit-part LWU members?

Condemn every import who vote stacked in Lazarus as being pivotal to the coup's success.

[Varanius]

What's with the Security Council being overrun by mediocre proposals to condemn bit-part LWU members?

Riveting commentary!

Support btw

[Numero Capitan]

Fully support this, pleased to see their DEER contributions get a reference.

A couple of comments on the earlier history section. It might help to highlight that in their role as Field Marshall they were the second highest ranking member of the Unknown military (behind the Archemperor/CIC) and helped contribute to Unknown's most active era of raiding (May 2009 - March 2010).

The New Sorvun raid seems like a strange inclusion. The founder nation was only a few days inactive and banned all the raiders promptly before the next update. Chin-chillas/FRA spotted the invasion before it happened but FRA chose to prioritise a liberation (Q102) instead at that update on the basis that Kenfeia was going to remove them instantly anyway (as they did). I've checked back through the archives and it doesn't appear that any natives were ejected as part of the raid.

Eagle Clan is also not the best example but it warms my heart to see it included so I say leave it, but Red Back led the raid and Cain was one of about a dozen defenders and raiders that were openly infiltrating them because they were hilariously loud noobish raiders who were also simultaneously declaring war on Unknown, LWU and TBH (and trying to convince TNP to become their ally). There are about 25 pages of public threads on the FRA forum with both sides sharing the funniest comments they had found on the Eagle Clan forums, so I wouldn't describe Cain's infiltration of the Eagle Clan as especially notable or skillful - even if they bring back fond memories (Eagle Clan won the Meltdown Award that year).

The raid of South America in May 2009 might be a better example to include, as it was an occupation and TNI very much tried to portray it as their active reemergence into R/D. Cain led it from the Unknown side.

Their actual time in TNI seems largely irrelevant, I'm pretty sure Cain learnt how to raid earlier (in The Genesis Federation/Egeden) and by the time they started leading raids involving TNI they were already doing it as a member of Unknown.

[Drew Durrnil]

10000/10 support, it's about time dream killers get condemned

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Definitely support a condemnation of Dream Killers- I probably would not have joined Unknown but for him explicitly seeking me out in 2009 in a time when I wasn't particularly welcome in the Commonwealth, and offering me an opportunity to enlist.

I suspect Numero Capitan is working from the same list of historical raids by Unknown/TBOB that I am, and it only credits Dream Killers as leading operations on Utopia (6th or 7th of May 2009), South America (8th of May 2009), New Sorvun (5 August 2009) and Eurasia (2 January 2010). However, I'm 99% certain that the player being credited as the "op leader" on this list is actually the point, not whoever was actually running the op, so Dream Killers is drastically undercredited compared to others- other users like Gunshotsbycomputer, Rogieria, St Constantine, and especially Savaer and A Darker Past (Earth22) were far more likely to be credited as the "lead". Even Numero Capitan (as Berkeley Run) actually has five operations as "lead" by that count.

The importance of Dream Killers impact within Unknown is more accurately measured on the administrative side, where he was giving a lot of the orders, a lot of work with graphics, generally greasing the wheels. A big fancy award might be handed out to high profile and long term members, and he wouldn't get one, but that's mostly because he was the one handing them out. He was 2ic not just as Field Marshal or Warlord, but also for some time as Crown Prince.

I'd also try to see if you could work in his efforts in leadership of allied regions in the same timeframe, such as the Dominion, but Cain himself is probably the only available source left.

[Scardino]

What's with the Security Council being overrun by mediocre proposals to condemn bit-part LWU members?

It’s unclear whether or not you are being facetious, but this is a funny comment. Cain is far more than a bit player and is crucial and instrumental to LWU in particular. Without being able to speak on his time in other organizations, his time in LWU has been occupied with keeping new recruits flowing into the region and receiving their indoctrination and training, helping to plan out our most important conspiracies, including conspiracies that simply can’t be brought up publicly and may never be, serving as a special adviser to every acting leader in LWU since 2015, and serving intelligence and counterintelligence functions throughout the same timeframe. Indeed, Cain is commonly referred to as something along the lines of “the most important raider you’ve never heard of” by people inside and outside of LWU and that’s largely by his design. Even still, his actions and work speak for themselves and senior and experienced raiders from other organizations frequently choose to approach him personally when bringing an important matter to LWU despite him having no official title.

The best part is that a condemnation is perfectly fitting as he has never had anything but contempt for natives and defender aligned organizations, far from the altruistic ideals of Evil Wolf and I.

Those wanting to hear lesser known raider history are encouraged to catch him on VC after 3/4 of a shot of scotch.

[Westinor]

What's with the Security Council being overrun by mediocre proposals to condemn bit-part LWU members?

It’s unclear whether or not you are being facetious, but this is a funny comment. Cain is far more than a bit player and is crucial and instrumental to LWU in particular. Without being able to speak on his time in other organizations, his time in LWU has been occupied with keeping new recruits flowing into the region and receiving their indoctrination and training, helping to plan out our most important conspiracies, including conspiracies that simply can’t be brought up publicly and may never be, serving as a special adviser to every acting leader in LWU since 2015, and serving intelligence and counterintelligence functions throughout the same timeframe. Indeed, Cain is commonly referred to as something along the lines of “the most important raider you’ve never heard of” by people inside and outside of LWU and that’s largely by his design. Even still, his actions and work speak for themselves and senior and experienced raiders from other organizations frequently choose to approach him personally when bringing an important matter to LWU despite him having no official title.

The best part is that a condemnation is perfectly fitting as he has never had anything but contempt for natives and defender aligned organizations, far from the altruistic ideals of Evil Wolf and I.

Those wanting to hear lesser known raider history are encouraged to catch him on VC after 3/4 of a shot of scotch.

Would really, really love it if this narrative could be reflected in the draft - it's a tidbit of the nominee I personally never new about that makes for a far more compelling story and argument. I get the approach of describing their concrete accomplishments, but adding in this sense of mythos in whatever way you can would be absolutely wonderful, and a very good step in the right direction imo.

[Scardino]

After consulting with our Chief Compliance Officer, I must clarify a previous statement. Lone Wolves United has never been involved in any conspiracy. Any conspiracies or clandestine activities Cain may have participated in were on his own accord and not conducted in his capacity as a member of Lone Wolves United nor were they conducted with the knowledge or support of its leadership.

[A Bloodred Moon]

The draft has been updated to reflect the feedback received.

West - we've made an attempt to incorporate more of a narrative, would greatly appreciate your thoughts on it as it stands.

NuCa and Ava - huge thanks for the feedback, we've incorporated the raid on South America as well as emphasizing their role in keeping the region together. The New Sorvun clause has not been altered so far but we're willing to alter it if that is better.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I like this, I really do. It’s well written and the depth of research is impressive. For a first time author it’s a very good job.

There were a couple of minor quibbles that passed through my mind when reading it, but they passed through and out the other side so I’ll have to do a couple of re-reads to see if I can remember what they were.

Opposed on principle. Appalling that condemnations continue to be abused for this type of self-congratulatory behavior.

And the recent and ongoing spate of Commendations for defenders isn’t self-congratulatory behaviour? What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as far as I can see.

[Westinor]

I very much think this is far better than the previous draft - while I do think you could do more if you'd like to, on a quality front I feel it functions very well and is a well-crafted condemnation. As a note, I believe a comma is deserved behind the first mention of The New Inquisition, and my previous comments about potentially expanding there still stand so long as you have the character space; still feels like a letdown in terms of payoff.

[Team Leo]

I like this, I really do. It’s well written and the depth of research is impressive. For a first time author it’s a very good job.

There were a couple of minor quibbles that passed through my mind when reading it, but they passed through and out the other side so I’ll have to do a couple of re-reads to see if I can remember what they were.

Opposed on principle. Appalling that condemnations continue to be abused for this type of self-congratulatory behavior.

And the recent and ongoing spate of Commendations for defenders isn’t self-congratulatory behaviour? What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as far as I can see.

Don't you mean what's good for the goos is good for the gander[/b]

Also I support this proposal

[Chef Big Dog]

As a note, I believe a comma is deserved behind the first mention of The New Inquisition, and my previous comments about potentially expanding there still stand so long as you have the character space; still feels like a letdown in terms of payoff.

Fixed the comma. We're pretty much out of characters at this point. That being said I think it serves its purpose even if it's not the strongest part of the draft.

[Chef Big Dog]

Bumping this. Open to any feedback if anyone has got any.

[Chef Big Dog]

After some delay, this has been submitted:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1686836662
Any approvals would be greatly appreciated

[Ostrovskiy]

Congrats on the well written resolution for a well deserving nominee!

Also raider condemn yay

[The Ice States]

Can you update the thread tag please?