[PASSED] Liberate Islamic States

[Rhaza]

Conflating Libcord with an organization is highly inappropriate. None of the operations conducted by TGW or the LDF were part of Libcord. Libcord is not an org, it is a Discord server for defending ops and defending ops only. No part of tonight’s op took place in said Discord server. Spreading misinformation for the purpose of raider talking points is not going to get you very far outside of your own circles.

"spreading misinformation" girl it's obvious that defenderdom coalesces in libcord + acts as a unit under libcord 99% of the time so as a result people mentally default to using "libcord" as the term to describe "multiple defender regions doing something together." literally no reason to assign melodramatic ~misinformation~ intent to that phrasing

"false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive."

Suggesting a platform used exclusively for defensive ops with a multitude of orgs where 2 of the 4 militaries that largely comprise of its command were not involved in this op (and don't do anti-raider raids regardless) is in fact both false and inaccurate, and given your track record and NPU's is also deceptive and in bad faith most likely

[RiderSyl]

I really don't like this new-

i've always been like this lmao

sorry, I really don't like this returning edgelord version of W&S.

"false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive."

Suggesting a platform used exclusively for defensive ops with a multitude of orgs where 2 of the 4 militaries that largely comprise of its command were not involved in this op (and don't do anti-raider raids regardless) is in fact both false and inaccurate, and given your track record and NPU's is also deceptive and in bad faith most likely

That's a really long and pedantic way to say it's misinformation because you don't like NPU's posts.

[New Astri]

"spreading misinformation" girl it's obvious that defenderdom coalesces in libcord + acts as a unit under libcord 99% of the time so as a result people mentally default to using "libcord" as the term to describe "multiple defender regions doing something together." literally no reason to assign melodramatic ~misinformation~ intent to that phrasing

"false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive."

Suggesting a platform used exclusively for defensive ops with a multitude of orgs where 2 of the 4 militaries that largely comprise of its command were not involved in this op (and don't do anti-raider raids regardless) is in fact both false and inaccurate, and given your track record and NPU's is also deceptive and in bad faith most likely

heeeey stop it being insufferably pedantic and quoting random dictionary definitions at people during online arguments is supposed to be My thing. uoure right bad faith is when i don't have a dossier on defender terminology and organization sorry boss

[The South Polish Union]

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

[New Astri]

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

THIS IS A GOOD POINT. us associating defender regions doing raids with libcord due to extreme membership/region overlap is bad and misinformation and bad faith and etc., but them associating a non-military region with raiders because of one (1) membership overlap is fine? Comically Illogical

edit: AND our association was just casually in a forum post, theirs was used to justify an entire ass raid. Lmao

[RiderSyl]

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

THIS IS A GOOD POINT. us associating defender regions doing raids with libcord due to extreme membership/region overlap is bad and misinformation and bad faith and etc., but them associating a non-military region with raiders because of one (1) membership overlap is fine? Comically Illogical

edit: AND our association was just casually in a forum post, theirs was used to justify an entire ass raid. Lmao

It all makes sense when you remember the two rules
Raiders do it = bad
Defenders do it = good

[Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands]

Raiders do it = bad
Defenders do it = good

Unfathomably BASED

[Refuge Isle]

I really don't like this returning edgelord version of W&S.

Darth Revan is literally one post above you.

[Vando0sa]

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

Well actually old Iwaku might be a target for that reason and it formally having an invader leaning military in the old days.. Also a few old defender leaning regions might have cut ties with Yggdrasil after I was left with the founder nation.. 10 year old embassies closed..

[Rhaza]

I really don't like this returning edgelord version of W&S.

Darth Revan is literally one post above you.

I'm actually wholesome Revan becaus this art was a surprise Christmas gift from an NS friend

[Improper Classifications]

Did anyone else notice they're evacuating their region?

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Did anyone else notice they're evacuating their region?

I'm not surprised that they're fleeing before my might.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Did anyone else notice they're evacuating their region?

Now Founderless, all their external support gone plus they’ve already created an alternative home, so not surprising really.

[The North Polish Union]

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

Its a bit disappointing that this has gone entirely unaddressed by anyone from TL or TGW despite members of the government of each having posted in this thread since.

Behold the rhetorical juggernaut of the defenderites!

[Albrook]

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Against my own safety, in the name of consistency, I’d hope so. We’re as guilty for having, of who remains from the old times, countably few who even remember when Iwaku raided, fewer who actually raided, and a community that simply doesn’t R/D (I read unlike IS). I imagine from who’d remain we’d have a social embassy with TBH on scramble when threatened as well. So we’re Darkspawn I guess.

[Haganham]

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

I can't speak for Indonesia, as I wasn't part of the op, but reason that even the strictest defenders will attack raider regions is that it's agreed that the general principle behind defending, that regions should be allowed to operate in peace, doesn't apply when a region is organizing attacks on other regions. Regions like Islamic states happily engage in the destruction of other's regions for their own amusement, and thus aren't entitled to any sort of consideration when they become vulnerable.

[Ostrovskiy]

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

I can't speak for Indonesia, as I wasn't part of the op, but reason that even the strictest defenders will attack raider regions is that it's agreed that the general principle behind defending, that regions should be allowed to operate in peace, doesn't apply when a region is organizing attacks on other regions. Regions like Islamic states happily engage in the destruction of other's regions for their own amusement, and thus aren't entitled to any sort of consideration when they become vulnerable.

This is true. Consider also: if we raid a raider region, there will be dozens of innocent regions that won't get raided. That's a pretty fair tradeoff.

[The North Polish Union]

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Against my own safety, in the name of consistency, I’d hope so. We’re as guilty for having, of who remains from the old times, countably few who even remember when Iwaku raided, fewer who actually raided, and a community that simply doesn’t R/D (I read unlike IS). I imagine from who’d remain we’d have a social embassy with TBH on scramble when threatened as well. So we’re Darkspawn I guess.

Ok sure for Iwaku that formerly had a raider military, but what about regions like Yggdrasil where Vandy's just the founder, or Eientei Gensokyo which to my knowledge has never had anything to do with either side of R/D? Because in this case defenders are raiding Indonesia (which appears to have more a connection to raiding than many o Vandy's regions) while so far leaving Islamic States (the actual invader region) untouched.

In a similar vein, Europeia has both participated in and organized raids more recently than Iwaku has done anything in R/D, but Euro now operates out of Libcord. When the new administration of Islamic States approached Quebecshire about coming to an agreement they were rebuffed. Again, the standards for who are what are allowed within the modern defendersphere are opaque to me.

Look I'm trying to be completely honest here. I don't understand fenda orgs raiding invader regions, it seems counter to the whole defending thing but that seems to be the way a bunch of you play the game at this point, at least I understand where TITO's coming from.

But you do seem to have to need a reason to be raiding regions beyond the "let it burn" that actual invaders take. Like fendas weren't the ones raiding TMC, Equestria, etc. this past year, in fact you opposed it.

If the reasoning is just "invader region" I don't see how Indonesia makes sense aside from it being a region founded by a raider who linked his other region in the WFE. Indonesia and Islamic States appeared to function completely separately aside from the founder. If Vandy CTEs will you raid all the the Alstromerian Commonwealth regions just because he's a raider and they all mention the Alstromerian Commonwealth in the WFE?

Also I know I can be stubborn, even dogmatic at times. Having read literally any of your posts Quebecshire, you should realize that you're no stranger to behaving exactly that way yourself. Simply coming at me with "bad faith" every time I post does nothing to further legitimate discussion. Get a better line.

I can't speak for Indonesia, as I wasn't part of the op, but reason that even the strictest defenders will attack raider regions is that it's agreed that the general principle behind defending, that regions should be allowed to operate in peace, doesn't apply when a region is organizing attacks on other regions. Regions like Islamic states happily engage in the destruction of other's regions for their own amusement, and thus aren't entitled to any sort of consideration when they become vulnerable.

I suppose defenders have changed a lot over the past decade. When I think of defender moralists I still think of starry-eyed idealists that probably would've defended raider regions out of principle, while writing multi-page essays about "polysemes"

The game has changed, but I haven't. It is the children who are wrong.

[Albrook]

Against my own safety, in the name of consistency, I’d hope so. We’re as guilty for having, of who remains from the old times, countably few who even remember when Iwaku raided, fewer who actually raided, and a community that simply doesn’t R/D (I read unlike IS). I imagine from who’d remain we’d have a social embassy with TBH on scramble when threatened as well. So we’re Darkspawn I guess.

Ok sure for Iwaku that formerly had a raider military, but what about regions like Yggdrasil where Vandy's just the founder, or Eientei Gensokyo which to my knowledge has never had anything to do with either side of R/D? Because in this case defenders are raiding Indonesia (which appears to have more a connection to raiding than many o Vandy's regions) while so far leaving Islamic States (the actual invader region) untouched.

And that’s my healthy laugh of the day. You heard it here first folks, the defenders really are coming for the weeb spam region that briefly raided before most of us were even founded. Moralism or whatever label of the day is happening here is a farce.

(REPOST: Accidentally posted on the Japan del nation oops. I’d prefer to keep my forum activity just on this one.)

[Cookies]

This honestly turned into a lovely fire pit of crispy words and melted deranged r/d insanity. BoM pulled out, the people are moving to a new region, I'd say liberating would be beating a dead horse.

[Rhaza]

This honestly turned into a lovely fire pit of crispy words and melted deranged r/d insanity. BoM pulled out, the people are moving to a new region, I'd say liberating would be beating a dead horse.

After discussion with other officers last night we elected to continue with this to play things safe in light of other military committements.

[Numero Capitan]

Against my own safety, in the name of consistency, I’d hope so. We’re as guilty for having, of who remains from the old times, countably few who even remember when Iwaku raided, fewer who actually raided, and a community that simply doesn’t R/D (I read unlike IS). I imagine from who’d remain we’d have a social embassy with TBH on scramble when threatened as well. So we’re Darkspawn I guess.

I’m old enough to remember Goddess Relief Office raiding the Marijuana Militia so Yggdrasil is clearly a hive of darkspawn that needs to be cleansed

/s

[Anna Henrietta]

Can't wait to see Vandoosa CTE. That'd be entertaining to once again have TEP send its 60 civilian militias into action, alongside FNR and THA.

[Islonia]

Local quebecshire tries to justify griefing as morally good, more at 12

That said, may Van be puppetswept I look forward to the day the LDF and TGW (or even MGC given they're also lobbying to vote in favour of this liberation) attempt to raid and grief AC. Since apparently when you're a raider, all the communities you've founded/helped build are entilted to destruction irrespective of their involvement in Gameplay now. Talk about calling yourselves defenders lmao

[Rhaza]

Local quebecshire tries to justify griefing as morally good, more at 12

That said, may Van be puppetswept I look forward to the day the LDF and TGW (or even MGC given they're also lobbying to vote in favour of this liberation) attempt to raid and grief AC. Since apparently when you're a raider, all the communities you've founded/helped build are entilted to destruction irrespective of their involvement in Gameplay now. Talk about calling yourselves defenders lmao

Are you suggesting we shouldn't burn the Raider Unity adhering region whose Founder was swept for mass WA cheating?

Not sure what Vandy has to do with this other than a nonsensical hypothetical.