[PASSED] Liberate Islamic States

[New Astri]

Even if they've been an incredibly influential part of the operations of 2022, I'd still like to know how and why the founder got puppetswept.

GHR still pending on that one i believe

[Sedgistan]

We don't even know why Jawi was puppet swept yet.

Repeat WA multying. It's rare that we puppetsweep someone for multying; they generally have to have done a significant amount of cheating and evading of bans for us to consider it. It's even rarer that the same player gets puppetswept twice for repeat multying.

Even if they've been an incredibly influential part of the operations of 2022, I'd still like to know how and why the founder got puppetswept.

GHR still pending on that one i believe

They've been answered now.

[Rhaza]

I think being swept for cheating (for the second time apparently) should answer any extant questions about why this region deserves to burn.

[Watermelon]

Support.

I think being swept for cheating (for the second time apparently) should answer any extant questions about why this region deserves to burn.

The region is also a raider region.

[Improper Classifications]

Repeat WA multying. It's rare that we puppetsweep someone for multying; they generally have to have done a significant amount of cheating and evading of bans for us to consider it. It's even rarer that the same player gets puppetswept twice for repeat multying.

Thanks for the quick response, Sedge- I'll go ahead and approve the proposal on my WAD vassal, in that case, 'cause WA multying is quite the crime.

[Shayk]

I think being swept for cheating (for the second time apparently) should answer any extant questions about why this region deserves to burn.

Once again, this region is more than its founder. There is a community here that wishes to rebuild beyond the founder nation.

[Cookies]

This doesn't seem like much of, anything, sure the region has done some things, but I doubt it will do much after their founder has since imploded, at least that's what I believe, I don't know much on the background of this region. I've read most of the thread and I can't see this get very much mileage, I'm mixed on this one. Also I thought Sunland was just some storage region with very little going on besides some tag raids by Lily or what not. From what I saw on it they had ceased officers with very little going on.

They've supported every major invasion of 2022, and the founder got puppetswept. It's pretty clear to me that the region should be counter-invaded, or at the very least, from a pragmatic standpoint, keeping raider WAs tied up there is good for everyone else.

Anyone can pile on to any major invasion, it is not as special as some would like.to believe or what not. Regardless of my attempted neutral stance, I just see this as a time waster on both parties, regardless if what happens, raiders spend a week, liberators spend a week, then back to normal forecast, like nothing ever happened, because this to me feels like a nothing burger from the get go. I didn't even know this was a raider org until today.

[The Ice States]

I think being swept for cheating (for the second time apparently) should answer any extant questions about why this region deserves to burn.

Once again, this region is more than its founder. There is a community here that wishes to rebuild beyond the founder nation.

Does the community of Islamic States condone, or was it otherwise involved in, the WA multiing of its founder?

[New Astri]

They've supported every major invasion of 2022, and the founder got puppetswept. It's pretty clear to me that the region should be counter-invaded, or at the very least, from a pragmatic standpoint, keeping raider WAs tied up there is good for everyone else.

Anyone can pile on to any major invasion, it is not as special as some would like.to believe or what not. Regardless of my attempted neutral stance, I just see this as a time waster on both parties, regardless if what happens, raiders spend a week, liberators spend a week, then back to normal forecast, like nothing ever happened, because this to me feels like a nothing burger from the get go. I didn't even know this was a raider org until today.

it's exceedingly rare for any R/D org of any relevance to have their founder CTE'd or deated. regardless of whether or not you're invested in the R/D politics of it or what the outcome is, the fact that this org's home region is currently vulnerable to raid is undeniably interesting news. by no means the biggest thing that will happen this year i'm sure, but it's still very relevant to both sides here. definitely not nothing

(also, the fact that the mods deated the nation for the given reason of wa multiing and it wasn't a regular ole CTE makes this even more prime NS News Material, because it gives people another facet to argue about. from a solely objective "will this generate interest/controversy" perspective, yeah, this is An Event!)

[Shayk]

Once again, this region is more than its founder. There is a community here that wishes to rebuild beyond the founder nation.

Does the community of Islamic States condone, or was it otherwise involved in, the WA multiing of its founder?

Absolutely not. We were not even aware of it happening.

[Reventus Koth]

We don't even know why Jawi was puppet swept yet.

Repeat WA multying. It's rare that we puppetsweep someone for multying; they generally have to have done a significant amount of cheating and evading of bans for us to consider it. It's even rarer that the same player gets puppetswept twice for repeat multying.

I'm not sure if you could answer this, but since Jawi isn't available to ask right now: would this be the result of an extensive puppet sharing network between multiple players? Having gone back through everything available to me as an ally (including my own spreadsheets of previous occupations) for the last two hours instead of doing my actual job, I'm led to believe that this may be the crux of the issue.

[Rhaza]

Let's be real here. I find it hard to believe that if that were the issue, it would not have been sorted prior to the second puppetsweep. If that is the case then this is a mess, but what.

[Evil Mother]

They've supported every major invasion of 2022, and the founder got puppetswept. It's pretty clear to me that the region should be counter-invaded, or at the very least, from a pragmatic standpoint, keeping raider WAs tied up there is good for everyone else.

Anyone can pile on to any major invasion, it is not as special as some would like.to believe or what not. Regardless of my attempted neutral stance, I just see this as a time waster on both parties, regardless if what happens, raiders spend a week, liberators spend a week, then back to normal forecast, like nothing ever happened, because this to me feels like a nothing burger from the get go. I didn't even know this was a raider org until today.

They have however consistently supported BoM operations throughout the entire year, their involvement in these raids was in no way accidental. Just because in theory everyone can do it, that does not make it any less bad. Also, because the founder was swept it will not go back to normal in this case, there will have to be a significant raider pile that will have to stay in the region, to secure it, which is what Rhaza was referring to

[Cookies]

My current opinion on this situation is that yes, it is interesting to see a raider organization's founder implode on itself, and now it will probably be sent reeling or possibly even try to relocate (That probably won't be answered for a long time however.) But I'm not sure if it is 100% worth it, a pile on group, yippie. Like hands to a flame, some will get burnt, some will eventually leave, some will stay for the warmth. And IS appears to have been burnt. I'm still very mixed on this. And I'm not sure how to feel about giving attention to a person who can't stop dipping their fingers into trouble.

[Reventus Koth]

Let's be real here. I find it hard to believe that if that were the issue, it would not have been sorted prior to the second puppetsweep. If that is the case then this is a mess, but what.

I am being real, working with actual information I have available to me. I understand that you're the invader in this situation not putting any thought into the native community you're trying to destroy (based), but I have to be the one to do what is normally your job here.

Having had to GHR to restore puppets of mine that were deleted in other people's puppet sweeps, I know that Moderation's logs of who is in possession of what puppet can get muddied very quickly when sharing occurs, which is why they highly recommend that nobody do it in the first place. I know for a fact that Jawi shared puppets with others in his sphere, it's provable and he's said as much himself, and warning records get all jumbled up in cases like these. He'd insisted that he always messaged the mods when puppet sharing occurred to prevent this, but I have no idea at this point if that's true. That's why I'm asking.

We're all in a dark hole of information, you can stop pretending like you somehow are the only one who knows the whole story.

[The Universe World]

I for one am looking forward to this region burning, albeit not for OOC reasons as I do not think the founder being a multier is grounds for the region itself being OOC problematic.
That being said, raiders get rekt ah .

[Rhaza]

Let's be real here. I find it hard to believe that if that were the issue, it would not have been sorted prior to the second puppetsweep. If that is the case then this is a mess, but what.

I am being real, working with actual information I have available to me. I understand that you're the invader in this situation not putting any thought into the native community you're trying to destroy (based), but I have to be the one to do what is normally your job here.

Having had to GHR to restore puppets of mine that were deleted in other people's puppet sweeps, I know that Moderation's logs of who is in possession of what puppet can get muddied very quickly when sharing occurs, which is why they highly recommend that nobody do it in the first place. I know for a fact that Jawi shared puppets with others in his sphere, it's provable and he's said as much himself, and warning records get all jumbled up in cases like these. He'd insisted that he always messaged the mods when puppet sharing occurred to prevent this, but I have no idea at this point if that's true. That's why I'm asking.

We're all in a dark hole of information, you can stop pretending like you somehow are the only one who knows the whole story.

If the mods managed to shit the bed and sweep a person twice (and presumably reject reasonable appeals in the process) then that's a whole nother problem and one which has caused us both (and others) a lot of lost time and effort, without even getting into the player actually hit by it. That would suck, everyone would agree.

Unless that comes to fruition, as far as I'm concerned in-game raider region is founderless, and I'm here to help bring the hammer down because that's what raider regions deserve: purge them all.

[Sedgistan]

Repeat WA multying. It's rare that we puppetsweep someone for multying; they generally have to have done a significant amount of cheating and evading of bans for us to consider it. It's even rarer that the same player gets puppetswept twice for repeat multying.

I'm not sure if you could answer this, but since Jawi isn't available to ask right now: would this be the result of an extensive puppet sharing network between multiple players? Having gone back through everything available to me as an ally (including my own spreadsheets of previous occupations) for the last two hours instead of doing my actual job, I'm led to believe that this may be the crux of the issue.

Unlikely, but I cannot explain further than that. If the player involved wants to appeal, they can of course do so through the usual way, and it'll be reviewed.

[Hannoura Az-Zengi]

Once again, this region is more than its founder. There is a community here that wishes to rebuild beyond the founder nation.

Does the community of Islamic States condone, or was it otherwise involved in, the WA multiing of its founder?

I don't! I refrain from putting this in WA even though alpistan no longer exists.

[Reventus Koth]

I'm not sure if you could answer this, but since Jawi isn't available to ask right now: would this be the result of an extensive puppet sharing network between multiple players? Having gone back through everything available to me as an ally (including my own spreadsheets of previous occupations) for the last two hours instead of doing my actual job, I'm led to believe that this may be the crux of the issue.

Unlikely, but I cannot explain further than that. If the player involved wants to appeal, they can of course do so through the usual way, and it'll be reviewed.

Understood. I was waiting to understand what exactly was going on here before abandoning a treaty ally, but I'll have to take your word for it. I'll see myself out of this thread, and my WA nation out of Islamic States.

[New Astri]

I'm not sure if you could answer this, but since Jawi isn't available to ask right now: would this be the result of an extensive puppet sharing network between multiple players? Having gone back through everything available to me as an ally (including my own spreadsheets of previous occupations) for the last two hours instead of doing my actual job, I'm led to believe that this may be the crux of the issue.

Unlikely, but I cannot explain further than that. If the player involved wants to appeal, they can of course do so through the usual way, and it'll be reviewed.

damn, shitty day for IS members. looks like if they want to remain intact as a community they'll have to move to a different region under a different leader.

(edit: changed region 2 community for better grammar)

[Shayk]

Raiderdom has left us due to the actions of the founder which we were completely unaware of. The raider direction was mostly his idea, and something our community, mostly made up of new players, only went along with without fully understanding its ramifications. In response to what we know now, I removed the Raider tag from our region, and the Assassin's creed, and went to the League to discuss the state of IS in this world, fully ready to make any changes necessary to make right. If you say we deserve to be raided because we were griefing, then I offered that we will never grief again. We may even defend, if you tell us what to do.

Instead, all of us, our entire community, most of whom have never participated in a raid or even understand one, were completely condemned for the actions of the founder. Razha/Cubi judged all of us, a community he has never interacted with, to deserve complete destruction, to suffer all the consequences, actively throwing away any opportunity to make this right, actively throwing away potential new defenders and a region willing to be an ally. I have the discord messages to prove this.

Is this the standard for all defenders? I don't even know what defending really is. But if it's this, how is it a good thing?

[Cookies]

This is turning into a bed of hot coals that I'm honestly not sure if I should be touching or not.

Raiderdom has left us due to the actions of the founder which we were completely unaware of. The raider direction was mostly his idea, and something our community, mostly made up of new players, only went along with without fully understanding its ramifications. In response to what we know now, I removed the Raider tag from our region, and the Assassin's creed, and went to the League to discuss the state of IS in this world, fully ready to make any changes necessary to make right. If you say we deserve to be raided because we were griefing, then I offered that we will never grief again. We may even defend, if you tell us what to do.

Instead, all of us, our entire community, most of whom have never participated in a raid or even understand one, were completely condemned for the actions of the founder. Razha/Cubi judged all of us, a community he has never interacted with, to deserve complete destruction, to suffer all the consequences, actively throwing away any opportunity to make this right, actively throwing away potential new defenders and a region willing to be an ally. I have the discord messages to prove this.

Is this the standard for all defenders? I don't even know what defending really is. But if it's this, how is it a good thing?

This is incredibly interesting to me, because it gives a case that they may be willing to change, but I am highly skeptical of this. Is it genuinely the truth? Or is it a mix of having a very rough situation and needing to pivot from one side of the table to the other.

I honestly feel like this just feels a tad bit ingeniously given that their region is under the eye of defenders wanting to pound a raider region with their pants down down to the ground.

I'm not even sure what is going on, with the possibility of a wrong sweep on the founder, the sharing thing, the fact this could be just a huge waste of time and focus.

I'm tired, I need sleep before my brain explodes.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Well, this has changed quite a bit since I asked my original question of Quebecshire in this thread. BoM pulling out of supporting IS, Liberation at quorum.

This is going to be interesting.

[Rhaza]

Well, this has changed quite a bit since I asked my original question of Quebecshire in this thread. BoM pulling out of supporting IS, Liberation at quorum.

This is going to be interesting.

If things change I’ll let it be known here, as of now we’re proceeding with the SC liberation normally.