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[DEFEAT] The Rights, Wrongs, Duties, and Powers of WA States

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Desmosthenes and Burke
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 772
Founded: Oct 07, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Desmosthenes and Burke » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:43 pm

We reiterate in the strongest terms possible our opposition to clauses 6 and 7. Additionally, we have less than zero interest in advocating membership in this body to our allies as envisioned in clause 8. That they are not members is often a bonus in our relations with them.

Clause 10 remains a complete non-starter for us. We maintain less than zero interest in enforcing sanctions and embargoes over insufficiently zealous beekeeping, parameters of pillows, or adherence to whatever far more sinister radical left-wing cause du jour has become popular on any given day. We would encourage our radical leftist enemies to join in this view, as they should equally have no interest in enforcing sanctions and embargoes over insufficiently zealous military spending, IP protections, gun rights protections, etc. There remain numerous other options for enticing compliance than engaging in acts of warfare.

The new wording of clause 11 has taken us quite by surprise and we must register an objection to it. We have no opposition, in principle, to codifying permission for committees to exist, but believe this to be too broadly worded and in need of refinement, preferably in such a way as to deny committees the ability to create new substantive requirements beyond what is contained in a duly passed and voted upon resolution or at the least to sharply limit it in scope.

In more depth, we believe that clause 6 is entirely unsalvageable. We will not ever, under any circumstance, support a clause that purports to extend the scope of compliance beyond the actual written text as it was voted upon and promulgated. We embrace the use of creative and malicious compliance to undermine the more asinine pronouncements of this body and zero interest if leveling hypocritical criticism at others for doing so, even if we do not necessarily agree with them. Again we implore nations to join us here in regard to proposals we might like that they do not. What is good for one is good for all.

In terms of clause 7 we agree with the Regina Imperatrix Elisabetha. It is entirely possible to recognize a requirement to comply with a resolution without pretending it is some form of holy text given forth by Iupiter Pater and the Dii Consentes themselves. We are reminded of an anecdote from the popular MMO The Real World in which the fictional polity of Arkansas legislated that the water level of the Little Rock river was not allowed to rise above a certain level. The river, being subject only to the laws of Nature and Nature's Gods, did not comply.

We might, albeit grudgingly agree to something like "Member states are required to treat as a solemn obligation compliance with world assembly law, to treat it as equal in standing to the most solemn laws and foundations of the state, and to transcribe it into their national law in the best practicable manner" or something similar that acknowledges that member states have undertaken obligations when joining the WA without embracing the rush to turn this body into the unelected, unrepresentative government of a de facto multi-versal single state.
GA Links: Proposal Rules | GenSec Procedures | Questions and Answers | Passed Resolutions
Late 30s French Married in NYC
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Current Ambassador: Iulia Larcensis Metili, Legatus Plenipotentis
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The Orwell Society
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Apr 16, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Orwell Society » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:46 pm

I, for one, support this.
The Orwell Society
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A vision without action is just a daydream

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Eastern Canadian Nation
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Apr 30, 2022
Ex-Nation

The new international bill

Postby Eastern Canadian Nation » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:11 pm

Eastern Canadian Nation supports this bill but not completely, no bill is perfect every single one has its problems. More bills will have to be drafted and proposed in order to fix another bill's problems. But that is for time to decide what we have to worry about is if we want this bill to pass and become international law or if we want to continue fixing all of the current bills. The wrongs of every nation should have a punishment as long as they're in the WA. No bill is perfect, this is why this bill does not have ECN's (Eastern Canadian Nation's) full support.

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WayNeacTia
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:28 pm

Well..... This is embarrassing now isn't it? We repeal #2 and now we can't get a replacement passed. Seeing as how #2 was the only resolution that contained a supremacy clause, nations are pretty much free to do as the please. (we have finally achieved the dream of becoming just like the actual United Nations) So now instead of the WA doing its job behind the scenes, we have instead told the U.S. House of Representatives to "hold our beer" and proceeded to light our own hair on fire. God I love this place.....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:56 pm

"Our delegation takes great pleasure in watching any attempted GA2 replacement crash and burn, and our only hope is that such a burning will thoroughly and permanently purge this festering snakepit with fire unquenchable"
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
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POLAND
STRONG!

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Svedonia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 20, 2022
Libertarian Police State

Postby Svedonia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:53 am

The clerk of the Supreme Free State of Svedonia reads while displaying a signed document; "The delegation from Svedonia accepts this resolution. We are in dire need of a new founding law after the repeal of GA#2. Signed, the Executive Cabinet. P. Andersson, Sp. HoS. & F. Selonius, PM"
Svedonia: The state is not for one, but all.



Respresented in WA by P. Andersson, Sp. HoS.

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Gruenberg
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1333
Founded: Jul 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gruenberg » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:07 am

Awesome to see such a mordantly unfunny shitheap of a proposal going down in flames. :)
"Do you mean "coming out"...as a Guardian reader would understand the term?"

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Attempted Socialism
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1682
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:41 am

Gruenberg wrote:Awesome to see such a mordantly unfunny shitheap of a proposal going down in flames. :)

This behaviour is not becoming of you, to be frank.


Represented in the World Assembly by Ambassador Robert Mortimer Pride, called The Regicide
Assume OOC unless otherwise indicated. My WA Authorship.
Cui Bono, quod seipsos custodes custodiunt?
Bobberino: "The academic tone shines through."
Who am I in real life, my opinions and notes
My NS career

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HM Queen Elizabeth III
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Nov 08, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby HM Queen Elizabeth III » Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:33 am

I agree. It's a bit uncalled for.
Her Majesty,
Queen Elizabeth III,
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a.k.a. The Hinterplace and Ganolfan

"World Assembly Climate Crisis Cooperative (WACCC)" Proposal posted in the General Assembly
“My wish for you is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are, to astonish a mean world with your acts of kindness.” (Maya Angelou, Continue)

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Straona
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Straona » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:20 am

Against due to article 7 and also, Jesus Christ with the unnecessary hate comments on the proposal.

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Straona
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Straona » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:26 am

Comfed wrote:
HM Queen Elizabeth III wrote:I believe there to be a difference in enforcing, and agreeing to enforce, the law that has been passed by the General Assembly and having provisions which make the General Assembly supraconstitutional, which is anathema to many democracies and a variety of other diverse forms of governance.

Additionally, even if it is true, that this is how the World Assembly has always worked, that does not make it right, just because that's always how we have done it. To quote one of my favourite books, “But merely being tradition does not make something worthy, Kadash. We can’t just assume that because something is old it is right" (Oathbringer, Brandon Sanderson).

This resolution does not change the fact the supremacy of World Assembly law. It is already supreme. That is not going to change. If you don't like that, well, World Assembly membership is entirely voluntary.

OOC:It was supreme until repealed. Also, you realize some regions require you to be in the WA in order to have access to their forums and any other content they have. Not everyone joins the WA to participate.
IC: While you have a good point ambassador, oppose.

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Untecna
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5523
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:31 am

Wayneactia wrote:Well..... This is embarrassing now isn't it? We repeal #2 and now we can't get a replacement passed. Seeing as how #2 was the only resolution that contained a supremacy clause, nations are pretty much free to do as the please. (we have finally achieved the dream of becoming just like the actual United Nations) So now instead of the WA doing its job behind the scenes, we have instead told the U.S. House of Representatives to "hold our beer" and proceeded to light our own hair on fire. God I love this place.....

Only in the WA do ambassadors regularly drink and subsequently do nothing else
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NFL Team: 49rs
California is the best is the worst is kinda okay
I may not be an expert on them, but I feel like I know about way too many obscure video/audio formats.
Issues Author (#1520) | Failed GA Resolution Author

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7914
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:39 pm

Deputy Ambassador John Smith - “In response to comments from various delegations, I would emphasis that the entire purpose of the General Assembly is to be a body that promulgates binding international law. If it makes laws which can be overridden through creative compliance, through constitutional overrides, or through negation of sanctions, then it hardly makes laws at all. It is for this reason that it is necessary, explicitly, to state the power of the law of the General Assembly as being entirely suzerain.”

Untecna wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Well..... This is embarrassing now isn't it? We repeal #2 and now we can't get a replacement passed. Seeing as how #2 was the only resolution that contained a supremacy clause, nations are pretty much free to do as the please. (we have finally achieved the dream of becoming just like the actual United Nations) So now instead of the WA doing its job behind the scenes, we have instead told the U.S. House of Representatives to "hold our beer" and proceeded to light our own hair on fire. God I love this place.....

Only in the WA do ambassadors regularly drink and subsequently do nothing else

(OOC: The transition of the WAHQ from a political headquarters of the multiverse to the multiverse’s finest bar with rooms is finally complete. Behold how sobriety has fallen!)
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Untecna
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5523
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:40 pm

Kenmoria wrote:Deputy Ambassador John Smith - “In response to comments from various delegations, I would emphasis that the entire purpose of the General Assembly is to be a body that promulgates binding international law. If it makes laws which can be overridden through creative compliance, through constitutional overrides, or through negation of sanctions, then it hardly makes laws at all. It is for this reason that it is necessary, explicitly, to state the power of the law of the General Assembly as being entirely suzerain.”

Untecna wrote:Only in the WA do ambassadors regularly drink and subsequently do nothing else

(OOC: The transition of the WAHQ from a political headquarters of the multiverse to the multiverse’s finest bar with rooms is finally complete. Behold how sobriety has fallen!)

"Finest" bar? The hell are you talking about?
Dragon with internet access. I am coming for your data. More for the hoard.
NFL Team: 49rs
California is the best is the worst is kinda okay
I may not be an expert on them, but I feel like I know about way too many obscure video/audio formats.
Issues Author (#1520) | Failed GA Resolution Author

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Kaphellonia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Feb 01, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kaphellonia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:15 pm

"It's a shame to see that the WA will not be united under a common goal because so many member nations refuse to actually participate. Again, membership in the WA is not required. Why are you here if you do not want to create international law and follow it? Why vote on anything if it has zero effect? Why not leave and let the rest of us who actually want to be a part of a cooperative international community do what we came here to do? Every nation voting against this proposal might as well resign from the WA since they clearly want nothing to do with it."
Évelin Aetós
The Community of Kaphellonia

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13705
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:29 pm

Kaphellonia wrote:"It's a shame to see that the WA will not be united under a common goal because so many member nations refuse to actually participate. Again, membership in the WA is not required. Why are you here if you do not want to create international law and follow it? Why vote on anything if it has zero effect? Why not leave and let the rest of us who actually want to be a part of a cooperative international community do what we came here to do? Every nation voting against this proposal might as well resign from the WA since they clearly want nothing to do with it."

Tinhampton will resign from the WA when I've run out of proposal ideas and I've found a successor delegate for my region. Prepare to wait the better part of a decade.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Galactic Powers
Diplomat
 
Posts: 505
Founded: Mar 29, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Galactic Powers » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:35 pm

Wayneactia wrote:Well..... This is embarrassing now isn't it? We repeal #2 and now we can't get a replacement passed. Seeing as how #2 was the only resolution that contained a supremacy clause, nations are pretty much free to do as the please. (we have finally achieved the dream of becoming just like the actual United Nations) So now instead of the WA doing its job behind the scenes, we have instead told the U.S. House of Representatives to "hold our beer" and proceeded to light our own hair on fire. God I love this place.....

Perhaps this was the plan all along…
Some OOC things. Dominioan’s new nation - Est. Dec 9, 2019
Boomer Sooner, Chop On.
^ Here's what those mean ^
Founder and King of the former Bluecrown Keep
Canons: Dominioan (IOC RP) - Dominioan (Personal) - 1AP Dominioan

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Kaphellonia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Feb 01, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kaphellonia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm

Comfed wrote:OOC:It was supreme until repealed. Also, you realize some regions require you to be in the WA in order to have access to their forums and any other content they have. Not everyone joins the WA to participate.
IC: While you have a good point ambassador, oppose.


IC: "Forgive me ambassador, but it Kaphellonia we'd call that some malakíes!"

OOC: Then don't join that region if you don't want to be a part of the WA and participate? There are plenty of regions to choose from or you can even create your own. That's no excuse to ruin the experience for everyone else who wants their votes and their proposals to actually do something! Without a GA#2 replacement the WA is basically useless. And what about all the people who have spent time and energy working on proposals that now essentially amount to nothing because nations don't have to follow them even if they get passed! Some people in the WA have spent hundreds of hours working on this stuff and trying to create an interactive community just for people who don't even want to be here to come in and try to suppress it.
Last edited by Kaphellonia on Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Évelin Aetós
The Community of Kaphellonia

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Terra dei Cittadini
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 422
Founded: Aug 19, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Terra dei Cittadini » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:56 pm

Perhaps the WA can be more of a federation, rather than having member nations stringently abide by the World Assembly's resolutions.

Rather than having to strictly follow the passed resolutions, member nations must immediately (and without preventable delay) integrate said resolutions into their laws/legislations/constitution/etc.

In a roleplaying sense (I don't really roleplay, so correct my inaccuracies), the WA is built to coerce members to overturn their laws in favor of the Assembly's resolutions, hence "having the WA pull on its strings" in a way; it could be a similar situation for non-roleplayers as well.

I'm not saying member nations should have more independence in the World Assembly, I'm stating that perhaps have countries integrate WA resolutions into their own laws (and nullify present ones if necessary) as opposed to overturning their laws for resolutions would augment the appeal of associating with the World Assembly.
Terra dei Cittadini, citizen of The North Pacific
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Democratic Socialism & Progress > Right-wing BS

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Straona
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Straona » Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:50 pm

Kaphellonia wrote:
Comfed wrote:OOC:It was supreme until repealed. Also, you realize some regions require you to be in the WA in order to have access to their forums and any other content they have. Not everyone joins the WA to participate.
IC: While you have a good point ambassador, oppose.


IC: "Forgive me ambassador, but it Kaphellonia we'd call that some malakíes!"

OOC: Then don't join that region if you don't want to be a part of the WA and participate? There are plenty of regions to choose from or you can even create your own. That's no excuse to ruin the experience for everyone else who wants their votes and their proposals to actually do something! Without a GA#2 replacement the WA is basically useless. And what about all the people who have spent time and energy working on proposals that now essentially amount to nothing because nations don't have to follow them even if they get passed! Some people in the WA have spent hundreds of hours working on this stuff and trying to create an interactive community just for people who don't even want to be here to come in and try to suppress it.

OOC: Its called I'm following the rules the region I am in establishes. You forget people can create friendships on this site right? Why should I or others have to make our own regions from scratch to little success, when we can join a region that our friends are in and just follow whatever rules the region has? What experience is being ruined? Yours and your colleagues who agree with you? You forget you aren't the only ones on NS right? The site isn't just for you.
IC: You can call it malakíes ambassador, but that will not sway my opinion.
Last edited by Straona on Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Straona
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Straona » Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:54 pm

Kaphellonia wrote:"It's a shame to see that the WA will not be united under a common goal because so many member nations refuse to actually participate. Again, membership in the WA is not required. Why are you here if you do not want to create international law and follow it? Why vote on anything if it has zero effect? Why not leave and let the rest of us who actually want to be a part of a cooperative international community do what we came here to do? Every nation voting against this proposal might as well resign from the WA since they clearly want nothing to do with it."


(Can't tell if this last part is OOC or IC but) You know how ridiculous that sounds? Why the hell is someone going to listen to that statement? Why should others resign because you don't like people opposing a proposed legislation that you didn't even create. You act as if those who vote against are enemy soldiers in a war. The unnecessary anger against nations who disagree with you, while not without some reason, is ridiculous.

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Comfed
Minister
 
Posts: 2257
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:56 pm

Kaphellonia wrote:Without a GA#2 replacement the WA is basically useless. And what about all the people who have spent time and energy working on proposals that now essentially amount to nothing because nations don't have to follow them even if they get passed! Some people in the WA have spent hundreds of hours working on this stuff and trying to create an interactive community just for people who don't even want to be here to come in and try to suppress it.
Straona wrote:It was supreme until repealed. Also, you realize some regions require you to be in the WA in order to have access to their forums and any other content they have. Not everyone joins the WA to participate.

Compliance with WA law is mandatory regardless of any kind of GA#2-type act, not only due to the game's meta itself (the WA page states "The WA is the world's governing body. Membership is voluntary, but all member nations must abide by legislation it passes") but also other resolutions which enforce compliance such as Complaince Commission and Administrative Compliance Act.

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Rovere
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Jan 11, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Rovere » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:49 pm

"The Republic of Rovere is against this resolution, as it unnecessarily states already established conventions (such as voluntary membership in the World Assembly) and seems to be more focued on centralising the power of the WA as opposed to forming international law (as is the General Assembly's purpose). Also, the resolution refers to the WA as a "suzerain" (a fuedal lord to whom vassals pledge alliegence), which reinforces Rovere's belief that this resolution seeks mainly to aggrandise the WA, which we view as unnecessary and counter to its purpose as a co-operative body."
- Ambassador of the Republic of Rovere
Last edited by Rovere on Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A Class 1.6 Civilization, according to this index.
A Power Comparator 18 civilization, according to this index.
Two years of this nation (on and off), five years of NationsStates with various now-abandoned nations.

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HM Queen Elizabeth III
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Nov 08, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby HM Queen Elizabeth III » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:56 pm

Rovere's objections really encapsulate what I have been trying to say. The wording that is used in this Resolution turns the World Assembly into a polity, rather than a cooperative body. If people want the World Assembly to be a polity, they can join a Region, which has those express purposes. Or we can change the World Assembly into something else. (Which I am fairly certain the Administration of NationStates would not do).
Her Majesty,
Queen Elizabeth III,
World Assembly Delegate and Queen of the Empire of Great Britain
a.k.a. The Hinterplace and Ganolfan

"World Assembly Climate Crisis Cooperative (WACCC)" Proposal posted in the General Assembly
“My wish for you is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are, to astonish a mean world with your acts of kindness.” (Maya Angelou, Continue)

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Caymarnia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 61
Founded: Nov 19, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Caymarnia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:29 pm

[Admiral Pellerin rolls his eyes so hard it can be heard across the room, throws up his hands, rises from his seat, and walks out. In his place, a barely-out-of-high-school staffer picks up the message from the capital. Through the scribbles of expletive-laden rejections written by several people - including the admiral - the staffer reads in a somewhat squeaky voice.]

The National Council of the People's Will not only votes against this measure, but respectfully requests that the World Assembly stop wasting our time.
Caymarnia - The Caymarnian Democratic Republic

His Excellency Marshal of Caymarnia Juan Carlos Madero
President of the Caymarnian Democratic Republic, General Secretary of the Communist Liberation Party of Caymarnia, and Chairman of the National Council for the Defense of the People

His Excellency Admiral Auguste Pellerin
Ambassador of the Caymarnian Democratic Republic to the World Assembly
(IC Spokesperson Unless Otherwise Indicated)

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