NationStates

Vul Handa wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:The founder indirectly endorsed fascist behavior by posting a questionable factbook regarding embassy policy.

Do you mean the one that says No Discrimination as rule number three.

Vul Handa wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:The founder indirectly endorsed fascist behavior by posting a questionable factbook regarding embassy policy.

Do you mean the one that says No Discrimination as rule number three.

Outer Sparta wrote:

Vul Handa wrote:Do you mean the one that says No Discrimination as rule number three.

That doesn't really mean nothing. Plus what they define as "true fascist" allows for a lot of leeway in terms of what fascist regions can open embassies with them.

RiderSyl wrote:

Vul Handa wrote:Do you mean the one that says No Discrimination as rule number three.

... Yes.

What point did you think you were making there? The policy has that rule, so its other rules and enforcement of those rules aren't questionable?

Vul Handa wrote:

RiderSyl wrote:... Yes.

What point did you think you were making there? The policy has that rule, so its other rules and enforcement of those rules aren't questionable?

This is the entire factbook. I don't see what's wrong with these rules.

Don't spam is fine
Be nice is fine
No Discrimination is fine
Follow NS TOS is fine
Advertising is lenient compared to most regions that have a full advertising ban

Current EmbassyRegionia Rules
Consequences:
1. Warning.
2. Warning with possible temporary mute.
3. Temporary eject from the region.
4. Temporary ban from the region.
5. Permanent ban from the region.

These consequences are non-negotiable.

1. Don't Spam
Please don't spam. It's irrational to clog up the RMB and there may be messages that are important or ones that an individual is trying to seek out. Also, try to avoid using the RMB in general unless you're in an embassy region.

2. Be Nice
The connection point is here to be a friendly bridge between regions through established embassies, not a place to flame (insulting or attacking someone) people.

3. No Discrimination
Discrimination (or racism) is a harmful act that enforces unjust distinctions against a particular group or race. Any sign or notion of this will result in an immediate ban from the region, due to NationState's TOS (terms of service), and basic human decency. If you originate from an embassy region, that embassy will be immediately revoked.

4. Follow NS TOS
TOS (terms of service) are a set of strict rules enforced by a website, company, or general provider that you agree to when signing up for their services. Violation of any of these rules will result in an immediate ban.

These rules are non-negotiable and will be enforced by me as well as personally selected admins.
Most of these rules can easily be followed by just being kind, and staying away from a**hole-ish behavior.

Note: All rules are subject to constant change.

ADDENDUM:

6. Advertising
EmbassyRegionia is an embassy collection region, meaning it strives to gain embassies, not members. Therefore, advertising is perfectly acceptable. However, do not spam advertisements. You may post 1 advertisement every 5 hours. Anything before 5 hours after the most recent will be considered spam and deleted. Continued violation of this can result in a block on advertisements for your specific region.

The Universe World wrote:

Vul Handa wrote:This is the entire factbook. I don't see what's wrong with these rules.

Don't spam is fine
Be nice is fine
No Discrimination is fine
Follow NS TOS is fine
Advertising is lenient compared to most regions that have a full advertising ban

Current EmbassyRegionia Rules
Consequences:
1. Warning.
2. Warning with possible temporary mute.
3. Temporary eject from the region.
4. Temporary ban from the region.
5. Permanent ban from the region.

These consequences are non-negotiable.

1. Don't Spam
Please don't spam. It's irrational to clog up the RMB and there may be messages that are important or ones that an individual is trying to seek out. Also, try to avoid using the RMB in general unless you're in an embassy region.

2. Be Nice
The connection point is here to be a friendly bridge between regions through established embassies, not a place to flame (insulting or attacking someone) people.

3. No Discrimination
Discrimination (or racism) is a harmful act that enforces unjust distinctions against a particular group or race. Any sign or notion of this will result in an immediate ban from the region, due to NationState's TOS (terms of service), and basic human decency. If you originate from an embassy region, that embassy will be immediately revoked.

4. Follow NS TOS
TOS (terms of service) are a set of strict rules enforced by a website, company, or general provider that you agree to when signing up for their services. Violation of any of these rules will result in an immediate ban.

These rules are non-negotiable and will be enforced by me as well as personally selected admins.
Most of these rules can easily be followed by just being kind, and staying away from a**hole-ish behavior.

Note: All rules are subject to constant change.

ADDENDUM:

6. Advertising
EmbassyRegionia is an embassy collection region, meaning it strives to gain embassies, not members. Therefore, advertising is perfectly acceptable. However, do not spam advertisements. You may post 1 advertisement every 5 hours. Anything before 5 hours after the most recent will be considered spam and deleted. Continued violation of this can result in a block on advertisements for your specific region.

That is not what we are referring to. We are referring to this: https://imgur.com/fOAksx3
Also, the dispatch you are talking about was made by Swaklaton, who has denounced the founder. Not the founder himself.

Vul Handa wrote:

The Universe World wrote:That is not what we are referring to. We are referring to this: https://imgur.com/fOAksx3
Also, the dispatch you are talking about was made by Swaklaton, who has denounced the founder. Not the founder himself.

Ok, my mistake what would be defined as a fascist then and remember what Germany had was Nazism.

Vul Handa wrote:

The Universe World wrote:That is not what we are referring to. We are referring to this: https://imgur.com/fOAksx3
Also, the dispatch you are talking about was made by Swaklaton, who has denounced the founder. Not the founder himself.

Ok, my mistake what would be defined as a fascist then and remember what Germany had was Nazism.

New Astri wrote:

Platoon of Peace wrote:If we're gonna call the region fascist, that it's also worth pointing out that the 10th(I think) embassy they had was with a region called The Transgender Region. Obviously the founder said some pretty stupid stuff, but this isn't exactly a point worth discarding.

no one is calling the region fascist, we're calling the region's founder's views & policies on fascism problematic.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=47114195

Everybody should know where I'm coming from before y'all make assumptions.

uhh...what ikania said.

people have been upset with you because you have redefined fascism to this incredibly esoteric list of ridiculous and inaccurate specifications that enables you to justify rubbing shoulders with just about any fascist region on nationstates. and then instead of considering literally any of the critique you have received for this, you stood up in front of everyone and doubled down with what was essentially "i said what i said, neonazis aren't fash unless they're super devoted to mussolini."

"if a Fascist nation doesn't have an Italian flag then it isn't fascist." really? really man? that's a direct quote, for those who haven't read the linked rmb post yet. another gem is "As for the case of Barbaria I'll continue to never perceive them as 'fascist enough' by my definition to condemn them or close any embassy with them." sure, they talk about how hitler actually did some pretty good things on their RMB, but according to embassies4breakfast over here, "not all neo-nazis are necessarily fascists." people were giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming that you didn't know about barbaria, and instead you've apparently personally reviewed them multiple times and just Actually Believe that supporting the dude who committed the largest genocide in history isn't grounds for being considered a fascist.

i don't think i need to specify how much worse nsleft's opinion of you is now. you can probably guess.

(also, sidenote: "It's possible to be both neo-nazi & fascists but not all neo-nazis are necessarily fascists if they support Adolf Hitler more than Benito Mussolini as Fascism has been reworded by myself into 'neo-mussolinism' instead"

hmm...so neo-nazis are into 'neo-mussolinism' and not fascism?
mussolinism, AKA fascism. neo-mussolinism, AKA...neo-fascism? )

(sidenote sidenote after seeing the messages posted while i was typing this up: no, swaklaton does not support your actions. afaik the black hawks shared the things you said because they're immoral, contributing to normalizing fascism on nationstates, and should be talked about and strongly discouraged. i'm sure it's a nice side effect for them that it got us on board, though.)

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

New Astri wrote:
no one is calling the region fascist, we're calling the region's founder's views & policies on fascism problematic.



uhh...what ikania said.

people have been upset with you because you have redefined fascism to this incredibly esoteric list of ridiculous and inaccurate specifications that enables you to justify rubbing shoulders with just about any fascist region on nationstates. and then instead of considering literally any of the critique you have received for this, you stood up in front of everyone and doubled down with what was essentially "i said what i said, neonazis aren't fash unless they're super devoted to mussolini."

"if a Fascist nation doesn't have an Italian flag then it isn't fascist." really? really man? that's a direct quote, for those who haven't read the linked rmb post yet. another gem is "As for the case of Barbaria I'll continue to never perceive them as 'fascist enough' by my definition to condemn them or close any embassy with them." sure, they talk about how hitler actually did some pretty good things on their RMB, but according to embassies4breakfast over here, "not all neo-nazis are necessarily fascists." people were giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming that you didn't know about barbaria, and instead you've apparently personally reviewed them multiple times and just Actually Believe that supporting the dude who committed the largest genocide in history isn't grounds for being considered a fascist.

i don't think i need to specify how much worse nsleft's opinion of you is now. you can probably guess.

(also, sidenote: "It's possible to be both neo-nazi & fascists but not all neo-nazis are necessarily fascists if they support Adolf Hitler more than Benito Mussolini as Fascism has been reworded by myself into 'neo-mussolinism' instead"

hmm...so neo-nazis are into 'neo-mussolinism' and not fascism?
mussolinism, AKA fascism. neo-mussolinism, AKA...neo-fascism? )

(sidenote sidenote after seeing the messages posted while i was typing this up: no, swaklaton does not support your actions. afaik the black hawks shared the things you said because they're immoral, contributing to normalizing fascism on nationstates, and should be talked about and strongly discouraged. i'm sure it's a nice side effect for them that it got us on board, though.)

1. You can probably assume that are very severe differences between Nazism and Italian Fascism (despite Nazism having been influenced by Italy's version) so, I see what's considered as a Fascist by redefining it in a more Mussolini-Centric (with Hitler's Nazism to the side) manner

2. It can't be called "rubbing shoulders with every fascist region on NationStates" if those types of embassies only make up a general minority in our embassy network.

3. We at EmbassyRegionia had never communicated with those from Barbaria before nor have I formally supported their views. However, we do share a mutual embassy (not because they're specifically a Nazi Region but just because my formed policy doesn't line up with what would describe Barbaria)

4. True that neonazis can't be super fash unless they're super devoted to Mussolini's original variant.

5. Lemme reword the "A Fascist Nation can't be fascist unless they possess an Italian Flag" statement. Any Fascist nation with a fascist Italian flag can be considered to be more fascist.

6. Isn't supporting Hitler illegal on NationStates anyways? If that's the case, why didn't Moderation just proscribe the region for total closure on May 15 of almost last year. So many other similar regions met that fate. Portraying Hitler as some "hero" or a genuinely "good person" seems more like a Moderation issue than an EmbassyRegionia issue. Anyways, you're right that there were no grounds to consider the region as our definition of Nazi/Faschie by EmbassyRegionia's standards but something you may be pleased to hear is that Nazis were forbidden from becoming ROs in EmbassyRegionia and I was even considering restricting their advertising privileges some months ago.

7. Yes Hitler's genocide was the largest in history. However, so was this one and there are some pretty similar parallels between these two mass-atrocities. Perhaps it's Ottoman-Themed regions that need to get banned due to their close association with some pretty messed up war crimes during WW1. So, maybe I should've just renounced my embassies with regions that are modeled after The Ottomans, Imperial Japan, North Korea, Islam, North Korean Leaders or any other region that are named after or themed after people, nations, religions or organizations that did bad things.

8. Yep it's possible to be fascist and Nazi but not necessarily both... due to neo-mussolinism being applied to mussolini supporters instead of Hitler supporters.

9. "hmm...so neo-nazis are into 'neo-mussolinism' and not fascism?
mussolinism, AKA fascism. neo-mussolinism, AKA...neo-fascism? )" neo-nazis can either be into neo-mussolinism or support Hitler with neo-mussolini influence.

11. Forming a list that creates a narrowly specialized definition of what it means to be fascist contributes to normalizing fascism? Um, which variant?

12. You got on board and helped the other raiders destroy over 1,167 embassies (which includes much more non-fascist embassies as well).

The Universe World wrote:

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:
1. You can probably assume that are very severe differences between Nazism and Italian Fascism (despite Nazism having been influenced by Italy's version) so, I see what's considered as a Fascist by redefining it in a more Mussolini-Centric (with Hitler's Nazism to the side) manner

2. It can't be called "rubbing shoulders with every fascist region on NationStates" if those types of embassies only make up a general minority in our embassy network.

3. We at EmbassyRegionia had never communicated with those from Barbaria before nor have I formally supported their views. However, we do share a mutual embassy (not because they're specifically a Nazi Region but just because my formed policy doesn't line up with what would describe Barbaria)

4. True that neonazis can't be super fash unless they're super devoted to Mussolini's original variant.

5. Lemme reword the "A Fascist Nation can't be fascist unless they possess an Italian Flag" statement. Any Fascist nation with a fascist Italian flag can be considered to be more fascist.

6. Isn't supporting Hitler illegal on NationStates anyways? If that's the case, why didn't Moderation just proscribe the region for total closure on May 15 of almost last year. So many other similar regions met that fate. Portraying Hitler as some "hero" or a genuinely "good person" seems more like a Moderation issue than an EmbassyRegionia issue. Anyways, you're right that there were no grounds to consider the region as our definition of Nazi/Faschie by EmbassyRegionia's standards but something you may be pleased to hear is that Nazis were forbidden from becoming ROs in EmbassyRegionia and I was even considering restricting their advertising privileges some months ago.

7. Yes Hitler's genocide was the largest in history. However, so was this one and there are some pretty similar parallels between these two mass-atrocities. Perhaps it's Ottoman-Themed regions that need to get banned due to their close association with some pretty messed up war crimes during WW1. So, maybe I should've just renounced my embassies with regions that are modeled after The Ottomans, Imperial Japan, North Korea, Islam, North Korean Leaders or any other region that are named after or themed after people, nations, religions or organizations that did bad things.

8. Yep it's possible to be fascist and Nazi but not necessarily both... due to neo-mussolinism being applied to mussolini supporters instead of Hitler supporters.

9. "hmm...so neo-nazis are into 'neo-mussolinism' and not fascism?
mussolinism, AKA fascism. neo-mussolinism, AKA...neo-fascism? )" neo-nazis can either be into neo-mussolinism or support Hitler with neo-mussolini influence.

11. Forming a list that creates a narrowly specialized definition of what it means to be fascist contributes to normalizing fascism? Um, which variant?

12. You got on board and helped the other raiders destroy over 1,167 embassies (which includes much more non-fascist embassies as well).

1. Using the term “super fash” makes no sense. This is about whether a region is fascist, not how fascist it is. Same with the “more fascist” comment.
2. Having no qualms about nations/regions supporting Hitler is extremely concerning and worrisome.
3. Nazism is inherently fascist. I am not sure what else there is to say regarding that.
4. Variant? This is about fascism in general and the overall problems with it.
5. In regards to regions themed after other unsavory nations, yes, I agree. But that is not the focus because you did not redefine a universally accepted definition and made up a horrible policy for those regions.

TGU will be sanctioning and blacklisting you due to the failures to comply with our demands for our continued support of you. Now, our official stance is that the raiders should be removed from the region, and that Swaklaton should become the leader (which he was during the time period between the attempted raid and this raid).

Ikania wrote:To put it nicely as possible, you are not helping your case.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

The Universe World wrote:1. Using the term “super fash” makes no sense. This is about whether a region is fascist, not how fascist it is. Same with the “more fascist” comment.
2. Having no qualms about nations/regions supporting Hitler is extremely concerning and worrisome.
3. Nazism is inherently fascist. I am not sure what else there is to say regarding that.
4. Variant? This is about fascism in general and the overall problems with it.
5. In regards to regions themed after other unsavory nations, yes, I agree. But that is not the focus because you did not redefine a universally accepted definition and made up a horrible policy for those regions.

TGU will be sanctioning and blacklisting you due to the failures to comply with our demands for our continued support of you. Now, our official stance is that the raiders should be removed from the region, and that Swaklaton should become the leader (which he was during the time period between the attempted raid and this raid).

Well, I wasn't really going to renounce my views anyways.

1. In that case, only the original Fascist Party is fash. Nazis are actually very different in how their "fascism" was operated and regulated compared to how Italy's system was operated and regulated.

2. While there were certainly similarities, the two systems operated in different manner and used different motives to fuel their popularity and power seizure. So, Nazi can't necessarily be inherently fascist. That's my position

3. Well, I don't support Hitler though at least.

4. There are other problematic systems that aren't Fascist ya know

5. the definition of Fascism being universally accepted doesn't really make a difference because fascism has been redefined by my policy which is no longer enforced due to the raid

Also, how could you support ousting me in my very own region in favor of supporting another nation's definite leadership instead? Those embassies were constructed (pretty much) single-handedly over the span of nearly 11 months and are now all going to be closed in less than a day. That's not very easy to rebuild.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

The Universe World wrote:

Devi wrote:

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

so purely out of curiosity
*if* we were to take your delineation between mussolini-centric fascism at face value
would you still accept an embassy from a nazi/neo-nazi/whoever else, as long as they don't meet all six of your criteria?

Dawn Denac wrote:

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:
Well, I wasn't really going to renounce my views anyways.

1. In that case, only the original Fascist Party is fash. Nazis are actually very different in how their "fascism" was operated and regulated compared to how Italy's system was operated and regulated.

2. While there were certainly similarities, the two systems operated in different manner and used different motives to fuel their popularity and power seizure. So, Nazi can't necessarily be inherently fascist. That's my position

3. Well, I don't support Hitler though at least.

4. There are other problematic systems that aren't Fascist ya know

5. the definition of Fascism being universally accepted doesn't really make a difference because fascism has been redefined by my policy which is no longer enforced due to the raid

Also, how could you support ousting me in my very own region in favor of supporting another nation's definite leadership instead? Those embassies were constructed (pretty much) single-handedly over the span of nearly 11 months and are now all going to be closed in less than a day. That's not very easy to rebuild.

I'd type up a big reply if I cared enough, or if Iota, Ike and multiple others hadn't already explained this to you multiple times.

So I'm going to be a parrot and say: You're not helping your case. At all. This is just demonstrative to multiple people that you don't particularly care aside from the semantics of your statement.

Ikania wrote:My brother in Christ, please stop posting. You’re only making things worse.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

Ikania wrote:My brother in Christ, please stop posting. You’re only making things worse.

I'll stop posting. It's not like it'll actually help anything but sure, I'll stop posting.

Swaklaton wrote:It would, unfortunately, appear that our entirety of over 1000 embassies will close before defender efforts succeed. A sad day indeed

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

Ikania wrote:My brother in Christ, please stop posting. You’re only making things worse.

I'll stop posting. It's not like it'll actually help anything but sure, I'll stop posting.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

The Universe World wrote:1. Using the term “super fash” makes no sense. This is about whether a region is fascist, not how fascist it is. Same with the “more fascist” comment.
2. Having no qualms about nations/regions supporting Hitler is extremely concerning and worrisome.
3. Nazism is inherently fascist. I am not sure what else there is to say regarding that.
4. Variant? This is about fascism in general and the overall problems with it.
5. In regards to regions themed after other unsavory nations, yes, I agree. But that is not the focus because you did not redefine a universally accepted definition and made up a horrible policy for those regions.

TGU will be sanctioning and blacklisting you due to the failures to comply with our demands for our continued support of you. Now, our official stance is that the raiders should be removed from the region, and that Swaklaton should become the leader (which he was during the time period between the attempted raid and this raid).

Well, I wasn't really going to renounce my views anyways.

1. In that case, only the original Fascist Party is fash. Nazis are actually very different in how their "fascism" was operated and regulated compared to how Italy's system was operated and regulated.

2. Well, I don't support Hitler though at least

3. While there were certainly similarities, the two systems operated in different manner and used different motives to fuel their popularity and power seizure. So, Nazi can't necessarily be inherently fascist. That's my position


4. There are other problematic systems that aren't Fascist ya know

5. the definition of Fascism being universally accepted doesn't really make a difference because fascism has been redefined by my policy which is no longer enforced due to the raid

Also, how could you support ousting me in my very own region in favor of supporting another nation's definite leadership instead? Those embassies were constructed (pretty much) single-handedly over the span of nearly 11 months and are now all going to be closed in less than a day. That's not very easy to rebuild.

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

Devi wrote:
so purely out of curiosity
*if* we were to take your delineation between mussolini-centric fascism at face value
would you still accept an embassy from a nazi/neo-nazi/whoever else, as long as they don't meet all six of your criteria?

Good Question.

Possibly.

If we take it at face-value than I would probably have no choice but to accept the embassy so long as it doesn't fit all 6 of my criteria .

Dawn Denac wrote:
I'd type up a big reply if I cared enough, or if Iota, Ike and multiple others hadn't already explained this to you multiple times.

So I'm going to be a parrot and say: You're not helping your case. At all. This is just demonstrative to multiple people that you don't particularly care aside from the semantics of your statement.

Interesting. I'm not helping my case? Well, it's not like you're really doing anything to help me either (endorsing a raid on EmbassyRegionia) but most of my hope has been diminished and you're right that I hardly care.

The Universe World wrote:You have made it possible for this liberation to not pass

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

Devi wrote:
so purely out of curiosity
*if* we were to take your delineation between mussolini-centric fascism at face value
would you still accept an embassy from a nazi/neo-nazi/whoever else, as long as they don't meet all six of your criteria?

Good Question.

Possibly.

If we take it at face-value than I would probably have no choice but to accept the embassy so long as it doesn't fit all 6 of my criteria .

Embassies4Breakfast wrote:

Ikania wrote:My brother in Christ, please stop posting. You’re only making things worse.

I'll stop posting. It's not like it'll actually help anything but sure, I'll stop posting.