[DISCARDED] International Art Gallery

[Malamute]

This is lovely work and I'd certainly support it! Keep up with your quality writing, and good luck!

[Thousand Branches]

I have finally trawled the last page or so of edits and they have been updated accordingly, to the best of my ability. This includes, to a certain degree, Comfed, PRS, D&B, Goober, and Fhaeng’s suggestions. Thanks all for your wonderful comments, man I love this proposal and I am so happy to have folks helping me bring it back from the grave.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

I have finally trawled the last page or so of edits and they have been updated accordingly, to the best of my ability. This includes, to a certain degree, Comfed, PRS, D&B, Goober, and Fhaeng’s suggestions. Thanks all for your wonderful comments, man I love this proposal and I am so happy to have folks helping me bring it back from the grave.

Forgot I should probably include a set of actual edits done for reference:

1. Cool pun names for the online and physical galleries cuz I’m cool like that (also thank you PRS )
2. Notes of not photographing artworks if they would be damaged in the process
3. Certain rules on artist consent and on ensuring the morality of sourced artworks
4. Assorted wording fixes, both for clarification and because they sound better
5. Took out the instance of multiversal. Looking back on it, mildly cringe and definitely not the vibe of the rest of that preamble.

[Tinhampton]

Article 1ai would appear to allow any member state to threaten "any dispatched photographers or historians" - however incredibly - if that means stopping the artwork to be preserved in PAINT from being logged.

I quite frankly cannot make out who on Page 2 was lobbying for a moral decency or immoral sourcing exception in Article 2b. In any event, ART or any other WA committee should be in the business of determining what is beautiful (perhaps not even that), not what is right and wrong.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Article 1ai would appear to allow any member state to threaten "any dispatched photographers or historians" - however incredibly - if that means stopping the artwork to be preserved in PAINT from being logged.

I quite frankly cannot make out who on Page 2 was lobbying for a moral decency or immoral sourcing exception in Article 2b. In any event, ART or any other WA committee should be in the business of determining what is beautiful (perhaps not even that), not what is right and wrong.

Immoral sourcing was a D&B comment. And I think enough history of art museums has been morally reprehensible enough that it warrants an inclusion. I don’t want stolen art or art with disputed ownership or art seized by conquest to be considered acceptable under the flag of PIECE. Also the moral decency note already existed It’s definitely important that the art is actually acceptable in a museum.

The photographers note is solid however, I’ll give it a jimmy in the morning, thanks!

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Article 1ai would appear to allow any member state to threaten "any dispatched photographers or historians" - however incredibly - if that means stopping the artwork to be preserved in PAINT from being logged.

I quite frankly cannot make out who on Page 2 was lobbying for a moral decency or immoral sourcing exception in Article 2b. In any event, ART or any other WA committee should be in the business of determining what is beautiful (perhaps not even that), not what is right and wrong.

Okay I changed my mind on the first comment. Considering the logging of the online database is purely by consent as it is, if a state did threaten photographers and documenters not to come and take their artwork, they also just wouldn’t consent to it in the first place. Additionally, if there’s some major rebel group trying to stop photographs from being taken for some reason, it probably is good to keep them safe from threats such as those.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Having hit the second page, lemme bump us up really quick

[West Barack and East Obama]

Dr Justin Obama, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs: Why though? The internet gallery is completely fine, but a physical one that contains less artwork, costs more money to maintain has no benefits. Sure, 'up close and personal' appreciation of the art may be a small benefit, but that will only be available to the rich upper class and will not really benefit the WA as a whole, unless this physical gallery has plans to be absolutely ginormous and also be easily accessible by the vast majority of the WA (i.e. a huge number)

Sigh okay.

One, don’t know where you got the impression that the gallery would “only be available to the rich upper class”. I purposely never presented any price for entry and literally deemed specifically that it would be easily accessible by all WA nations. It literally says “a sufficiently accessible and sizable portion of land within international World Assembly territory”.

As for size, obviously it won’t be a small museum. If we were talking irl, it would be utterly implausible, but NationStates has literal hundreds of thousands of nations and over 20000 in the WA. And honestly assuming somehow every single nation wants to donate artwork, that’s still only 40000-ish artworks, a large complex could easily house that many. Shit, the Louvre has like 30 something thousand on it’s own.

Physical galleries are important because art is not always perfectly presented on a screen. Colors, strokes, details get lost in the pixels and the small size of a computer screen. It is important to be able to have a place to explore the cultures of WA nations from around the realm by really connecting to their art, in a way that cannot be achieved remotely. No, it is not a decision of pure efficiency, and I don’y believe it should be. The IGA remains.

OOC:

No mention of price of entry means that the PIECE/the committee in charge can set entry fees however they want, and they'll probably put a pretty penny on it to help run this massive museum. Not that the art gallery's entry fee is a concern to me, to be honest. If anything, it's the saving grace for the PIECE part, as it at least makes the venture profitable for the WA in a monetary sense. Taking time off work, having enough income to travel long distances, just to see the art from your nation in a museum that your tax dollars are paying for is not a privilege most have.

"sufficiently accessible" is rather meaningless. Accessible for whom? How sufficient is sufficient? Even if we're ignoring the space tech alternate dimension galaxy nations, it's going to be difficult. Someone from Australia or New Guinea would have a pretty hard time accessing either the UNHQ or the Louvre.

I think a better idea would be for the WA to support and fund museums across the WA. One big centralised WA museum just doesn't work practically. However, multiple museums working in cohesion with the WA's support to make art more accessible for all would be a worthwhile goal that I could support. (Not sure if my ambassador would though. Spending this, spending that, bleh)

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Sigh okay.

One, don’t know where you got the impression that the gallery would “only be available to the rich upper class”. I purposely never presented any price for entry and literally deemed specifically that it would be easily accessible by all WA nations. It literally says “a sufficiently accessible and sizable portion of land within international World Assembly territory”.

As for size, obviously it won’t be a small museum. If we were talking irl, it would be utterly implausible, but NationStates has literal hundreds of thousands of nations and over 20000 in the WA. And honestly assuming somehow every single nation wants to donate artwork, that’s still only 40000-ish artworks, a large complex could easily house that many. Shit, the Louvre has like 30 something thousand on it’s own.

Physical galleries are important because art is not always perfectly presented on a screen. Colors, strokes, details get lost in the pixels and the small size of a computer screen. It is important to be able to have a place to explore the cultures of WA nations from around the realm by really connecting to their art, in a way that cannot be achieved remotely. No, it is not a decision of pure efficiency, and I don’y believe it should be. The IGA remains.

OOC:

No mention of price of entry means that the PIECE/the committee in charge can set entry fees however they want, and they'll probably put a pretty penny on it to help run this massive museum. Not that the art gallery's entry fee is a concern to me, to be honest. If anything, it's the saving grace for the PIECE part, as it at least makes the venture profitable for the WA in a monetary sense. Taking time off work, having enough income to travel long distances, just to see the art from your nation in a museum that your tax dollars are paying for is not a privilege most have.

"sufficiently accessible" is rather meaningless. Accessible for whom? How sufficient is sufficient? Even if we're ignoring the space tech alternate dimension galaxy nations, it's going to be difficult. Someone from Australia or New Guinea would have a pretty hard time accessing either the UNHQ or the Louvre.

I think a better idea would be for the WA to support and fund museums across the WA. One big centralised WA museum just doesn't work practically. However, multiple museums working in cohesion with the WA's support to make art more accessible for all would be a worthwhile goal that I could support. (Not sure if my ambassador would though. Spending this, spending that, bleh)

Meh, as per all of our former interactions, I pretty much disagree with everything you said. Given that time and space in the NSverse is wackadoodle and doesn’t make any actual logical sense, “sufficiently accessible” is pretty much the best I can do. I’ll admit, specifying accessibility to is probably a solid idea, I’ll see what I can do on that. Individual museums are great and I think it’d be cool if a proposal addressed them, but that’s not really the point of this bad boy so I’m not too worried about including it here. Also nothing in this proposal allows the committee to set a price on entry, that does not suddenly allow them to put a price on entry. Because the WAH doesn’t say anything about price of entry, does that somehow mean we need to pay to get into the building every time? That literally is such circular logic.

[West Barack and East Obama]

Also nothing in this proposal allows the committee to set a price on entry, that does not suddenly allow them to put a price on entry. Because the WAH doesn’t say anything about price of entry, does that somehow mean we need to pay to get into the building every time? That literally is such circular logic.

OOC: Er... okay. Well, both the PIECE and WAHQ can set a price of entry, because nothing says they can't. It doesn't mean they will automatically do it, but given that this whole PIECE is a black hole sucking up all of the General Fund, they will most certainly do it (and the WAHQ has revenue streams from renters, so they don't need entry fees). And also, I said that was a moot point because price of entry was not my issue, I just discussed it because you mentioned it.

Anyways, choosing to construct an unreasonably huge and expensive structure over supporting individual museums seems like an odd choice to promote the arts, but what do I know. It'll be interesting to see how this (and subsequent repeal attempts upon passage) plays out with the voters.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Also nothing in this proposal allows the committee to set a price on entry, that does not suddenly allow them to put a price on entry. Because the WAH doesn’t say anything about price of entry, does that somehow mean we need to pay to get into the building every time? That literally is such circular logic.

OOC: Er... okay. Well, both the PIECE and WAHQ can set a price of entry, because nothing says they can't. It doesn't mean they will automatically do it, but given that this whole PIECE is a black hole sucking up all of the General Fund, they will most certainly do it (and the WAHQ has revenue streams from renters, so they don't need entry fees). And also, I said that was a moot point because price of entry was not my issue, I just discussed it because you mentioned it.

Anyways, choosing to construct an unreasonably huge and expensive structure over supporting individual museums seems like an odd choice to promote the arts, but what do I know. It'll be interesting to see how this (and subsequent repeal attempts upon passage) plays out with the voters.

My good guy. As has been previously noted, the Louvre carries over 35000 artworks, some of which are gigantic. With limiting of size and (at high maximum) 5-6000 more artworks, I do not see how this structure would somehow be unreasonable huge or a “black hole sucking up all the general fund”. If the Louvre, an actual real life museum, is a completely reasonable, if awesome structure, I’m really not quite getting how one slightly bigger structure for the entire WA cosmos is “unreasonable”. By comparison that is tiny. And again, this is assuming every single nation donates a full two artworks and again, is not even considering the reasonable size required of artworks.

[Comfed]

Still against given the lack of any consideration of the rights of the artists.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Still against given the lack of any consideration of the rights of the artists.

But I changed that!!

“Ensure that all artworks being loaned to the gallery are of a reasonable size, moral decency, and have not been illegally or immorally sourced. Additionally, to the best of its ability, consent must be ascertained by any living artists or creators of works being loaned to the PIECE.”

Lmk if there’s anything further I should add to make this more effective but I did make particular note of adding a consent clause for living artists and immorally sourced artworks

[The Finntopian Empire]

Full support

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Just bumping this one more time. I’ll likely be submitting soon. Thank you everyone for your indispensable feedback.

[Magecastle Embassy Building A5]

"Why does the ART need to visit these museums? Why is it not possible to instead mandate that member nations directly provide such art to the ART, or have the ART otherwise receive it from member nations?"

~Alexander Nicholas Saverchenko-Coletti,
World Assembly Ambassador,
The Empire of The Ice States

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

"Why does the ART need to visit these museums? Why is it not possible to instead mandate that member nations directly provide such art to the ART, or have the ART otherwise receive it from member nations?"

~Alexander Nicholas Saverchenko-Coletti,
World Assembly Ambassador,
The Empire of The Ice States

I considered that actually. The reason I wanted to send ART directly is for a couple of reasons:

1. It allows art photographers and historians to ensure legitimacy of artwork and thereby, ownership. It means they can make sure they don’t have artwork stolen from other nations or people.
2. Quality, variety, and safety. If the artworks are recorded by a WA committee, the quality of the methods of recording can be ensured, and the ART can ensure that whatever method they’re using doesn’t damage precious artwork in any way. Additionally, not all nations have access to the varied recording techniques of the ART and therefore would not be able to record by the same standards.
3. It’s an additional incentive for allowing a nation’s artwork to be added to the online gallery if they don’t have to spend additional resources and time to record their artworks themselves. Plus, it’s a tiny bit of free tourism

[Free Algerstonia]

The Algerstonican Patriotic Office of Creativity for the Nation and People of Algerstonia is waiting to see a concrete number of how much beautiful Algerstonican artwork will be presented in the World Assembly International Art Gallery. If the APOCNPA deems the amount too little of a showcase, this will be viewed as a slap in the face to the hard-working citizens of this country and the Free State will do everything within our power to destroy this proposal for ignoring Algerstonican cultural traditions and artwork.

[Simone Republic]

I like the idea of the online gallery (section 1) so long as copyright issues are amply covered (since a lot of artworks have IP issues). Section 2 seems likely to cost a lot of money so I think it's more of a national respknsio/willingness issue.

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

The Algerstonican Patriotic Office of Creativity for the Nation and People of Algerstonia is waiting to see a concrete number of how much beautiful Algerstonican artwork will be presented in the World Assembly International Art Gallery. If the APOCNPA deems the amount too little of a showcase, this will be viewed as a slap in the face to the hard-working citizens of this country and the Free State will do everything within our power to destroy this proposal for ignoring Algerstonican cultural traditions and artwork.

This is already in the proposal, the amount of artwork from each nation is 2

I like the idea of the online gallery (section 1) so long as copyright issues are amply covered (since a lot of artworks have IP issues). Section 2 seems likely to cost a lot of money so I think it's more of a national respknsio/willingness issue.

I’m honestly not sure what half of this means but I do have consent clauses for artworks displayed

[Free Algerstonia]

The Algerstonican Patriotic Office of Creativity for the Nation and People of Algerstonia is waiting to see a concrete number of how much beautiful Algerstonican artwork will be presented in the World Assembly International Art Gallery. If the APOCNPA deems the amount too little of a showcase, this will be viewed as a slap in the face to the hard-working citizens of this country and the Free State will do everything within our power to destroy this proposal for ignoring Algerstonican cultural traditions and artwork.

This is already in the proposal, the amount of artwork from each nation is 2

I like the idea of the online gallery (section 1) so long as copyright issues are amply covered (since a lot of artworks have IP issues). Section 2 seems likely to cost a lot of money so I think it's more of a national respknsio/willingness issue.

I’m honestly not sure what half of this means but I do have consent clauses for artworks displayed

Due to the blatantly obvious cultural oppression and the censorship of Algerstonican artwork present in this gallery, the Algerstonican Patriotic Office of Creativity for the Nation and People of Algerstonia recommends that the Free State opposes this proposal and heavily encourages all nations that respect their national identity to do the same.

[The United Sts of America]

Interesting proposal

Would like to clarify some things:
1: Can art pieces be permanently in the gallery
2: Is the any more-specific term for art? I could splash paint and mix em together, get one of my friends in the govt(theoretically) to approve it, and I become famous
3: Are these galleries owned and operated by the WA or member nations? Assuming it's member nations, would nations be allowed to charge fees(i.e. entrance fees etc.) to help alleviate the cost of building, maintaining, and operating the galleries. And if allowed, does any of the monies collected have to be paid to the WA

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Interesting proposal

Would like to clarify some things:
1: Can art pieces be permanently in the gallery
2: Is the any more-specific term for art? I could splash paint and mix em together, get one of my friends in the govt(theoretically) to approve it, and I become famous
3: Are these galleries owned and operated by the WA or member nations? Assuming it's member nations, would nations be allowed to charge fees(i.e. entrance fees etc.) to help alleviate the cost of building, maintaining, and operating the galleries. And if allowed, does any of the monies collected have to be paid to the WA

1. Read the section on outgoing loans.
2. Nope, but the ART only visits galleries and museums to photograph. For the PIECE, nations can submit whatever they want to as long as it’s of a reasonable size, not illicitly obtained, and morally sound.
3. It’s owned and operated by the WA, as is clearly noted in the proposal, and no, nothing in the resolution permits the ART to set entrance fees

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Fuck it, we’re submitting on Sunday, edit now or forever hold your peace

[The Web of Life and Destiny]

Fuck it, we’re submitting on Sunday, edit now or forever hold your peace

Whaaaat ya’ll thought I meant last Sunday? Shiii I meant this Sunday