NationStates

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:29 pm**

Lenlyvit wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wrong as usual. Vandoosa is just as much a native of the region as anyone else. He has full right to determine a new course for the region as no one else has done shit there in years.

I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

I mean they seem to be doing a good job so far, bringing 19 WA nations to the region, reworking the Foreign Affairs, and Remodelling the Appearances. This is by far the most active the region has been in 5+ years! I say we let Vandy keep doing their thing, see what else they can bring to the region

This is a joke

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:43 pm**

Lenlyvit wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wrong as usual. Vandoosa is just as much a native of the region as anyone else. He has full right to determine a new course for the region as no one else has done shit there in years.

I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

Show me an actual native of that region, who isn’t a defender sleeper?

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:46 pm**

While usually I love to read these liberation threads on the basis of not being super engaged in GP, it grows tiring when people just ask the same questions over and over again without reading the answers given.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:46 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

Show me an actual native of that region, who isn’t a defender sleeper?

I assume both Garchyland, the former delegate, and their one endorsement Maineiacs, to not be instantly assumed defender sleepers. As such, I've telegrammed both and directed them to this thread. The author and other defenders have stated that this proposal is hinging on their consent, so I hope they do speak up one way or the other.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:50 pm**

Lenlyvit wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wrong as usual. Vandoosa is just as much a native of the region as anyone else. He has full right to determine a new course for the region as no one else has done shit there in years.

I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

I mean, by that definition of a native then literally nobody in ALH is a "native" cause based off the activity on the RMB at least (maybe there's some offsite stuff with more to it but I doubt it) absolutely nobody has been contributing to the future of this region and engaging. considering the last message made before the raid was 101 days ago and it was the delegate questioning the future of the region because of the lack of activity. then before that there were a few embassy posts then a puppet of courelli posting SLU's statement on ainlands founder coup (which happened over a year ago now). where exactly are these natives that are supposedly supposed to be contributing to the future of the region and engaging? though all this going into the specifics of this particular region is ultimately unnecessary when all I need to do is point out that this definition of native would exclude non-WA issue answerers (possibly WA ones as well depending on how narrow you make the definition of "contribute to the future of the region") to show how you might not want to try to run with this definition, unless you want to say that the majority of nations in all/most regions aren't actually natives of course

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:53 pm**

Miravana wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

I mean they seem to be doing a good job so far, bringing 19 WA nations to the region, reworking the Foreign Affairs, and Remodelling the Appearances. This is by far the most active the region has been in 5+ years! I say we let Vandy keep doing their thing, see what else they can bring to the region
This is a joke

Bringing in raider nations to pile on them to forcefully take a region from natives does not mean they're contributing to the region, it just means that they're forcefully occupying the region to destroy it.

Wayneactia wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:I fail to see how Vandoosa has a right to charter the future of the region over the native populations wishes. Vandoosa is not a native of ALH, never has been. Having a sleeper intended to be used to attack a community does not qualify a person for native rights, they actually have to substantially contribute to the future of the region and engage.

Show me an actual native of that region, who isn’t a defender sleeper?

Garchyland and Maineiacs are not defender sleepers....

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:11 pm**

I'm still not convinced that liberals deserve to have regions at all

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:19 pm**

Great Algerstonia wrote:I'm still not convinced that liberals deserve to have regions at all

This really isn’t the place for it…..

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:20 pm**

Reventus Koth wrote:As the former delegate, and one of only two nations I expect are not a sleeper (read: not native) based on their WA status, I'd like to hear what they have to say. Until then, the author and their defender supporters have no more of a leg to stand on than the man with intense munchies himself.

Already covered pretty quickly and simply on discord, the proposal is pending native consent as stated for the nth time at the top of the draft

Wascoitan wrote:I mean, by that definition of a native then literally nobody in ALH is a "native" cause based off the activity on the RMB at least (maybe there's some offsite stuff with more to it but I doubt it) absolutely nobody has been contributing to the future of this region and engaging. considering the last message made before the raid was 101 days ago and it was the delegate questioning the future of the region because of the lack of activity. then before that there were a few embassy posts then a puppet of courelli posting SLU's statement on ainlands founder coup (which happened over a year ago now). where exactly are these natives that are supposedly supposed to be contributing to the future of the region and engaging? though all this going into the specifics of this particular region is ultimately unnecessary when all I need to do is point out that this definition of native would exclude non-WA issue answerers (possibly WA ones as well depending on how narrow you make the definition of "contribute to the future of the region") to show how you might not want to try to run with this definition, unless you want to say that the majority of nations in all/most regions aren't actually natives of course

You're blurring intent with action (aka activity) here for a convenient spin into a rabbithole about activity levels. Lenly didn't say only contribution or lack thereof defines who has a say in a region, it's also about intent to do harm to said region. If there's any question about Vandoosa's intent with the sleeper nation in the region, then well lol: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=28901700

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:25 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Apatosaurus wrote:Even if the region does not get refounded, it's still griefing and community destruction.

Wrong as usual. Vandoosa is just as much a native of the region as anyone else. He has full right to determine a new course for the region as no one else has done shit there in years.

Today I learned that putting a puppet in a vulnerable community in bad faith, doing nothing besides sitting in that region for an eventual raid, and then betraying that community by summoning region crashers to endorse you so that you can ban long-time members of the community for no reason other than your amusement and advertise your org as if it was something to be proud of, makes you a native. :roll:

I'm surprised that a former UDL member is supporting region crashers, but whatever.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:29 pm**

Apatosaurus wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wrong as usual. Vandoosa is just as much a native of the region as anyone else. He has full right to determine a new course for the region as no one else has done shit there in years.

Today I learned that putting a puppet in a vulnerable community in bad faith, doing nothing besides sitting in that region for an eventual raid, and then betraying that community by summoning region crashers to endorse you so that you can ban long-time members of the community for no reason other than your amusement and advertise your org as if it was something to be proud of, makes you a native.

I'm surprised that a former UDL member is supporting region crashers, but whatever.

How exactly have they crashed the region? Spurring activity in a dead region is crashing it now? Who knew…..

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:34 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Apatosaurus wrote:Today I learned that putting a puppet in a vulnerable community in bad faith, doing nothing besides sitting in that region for an eventual raid, and then betraying that community by summoning region crashers to endorse you so that you can ban long-time members of the community for no reason other than your amusement and advertise your org as if it was something to be proud of, makes you a native. :roll:

I'm surprised that a former UDL member is supporting region crashers, but whatever.

How exactly have they crashed the region? Spurring activity in a dead region is crashing it now? Who knew…..

Seizing the delegacy without native consent, banning long-time natives, defacing the WFE and flag with advertisements for your org, changing the password to something secret only the raiders know and closing all the embassies is spurring activity now? More like crashing a region for your own amusement. You also haven't considered that this "activity" will end as soon as raiders leave the region since they're all satisfied and feel good that they've destroyed the native community. And again, I'm surprised a former UDL member is supporting the region crashers here. I suppose people's alignments change when they're trying to evade bans.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:38 pm**

I think it's very clear that raiders are only on this thread to troll, the region in question is unquestionably being occupied by raider forces who wish to do it harm. We should ignore this bait on the semantics of "natives" and instead focus on the proposal's actual merits themselves. Regarding the proposal itself, I'd like the echo Andy and Zuk's suggestions. The subject matter itself seems spot on, but as the aforementioned two mentioned, there are stylistic changes that would make this flow better as a reader. Full support.

Furthermore, I consider that TBH should cease to exist as an organization.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:41 pm**

Matthew the Man wrote:I think it's very clear that raiders are only on this thread to troll

You know where to go if you think this is the case.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:44 pm**

Matthew the Man wrote:Furthermore, I consider that TBH should cease to exist as an organization.

The only opinion in this thread that matters

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:49 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:I'm still not convinced that liberals deserve to have regions at all

This really isn’t the place for it…..

What better place is there?

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:52 pm**

Apatosaurus wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:How exactly have they crashed the region? Spurring activity in a dead region is crashing it now? Who knew…..

Seizing the delegacy without native consent, banning long-time natives, defacing the WFE and flag with advertisements for your org, changing the password to something secret only the raiders know and closing all the embassies is spurring activity now? More like crashing a region for your own amusement. You also haven't considered that this "activity" will end as soon as raiders leave the region since they're all satisfied and feel good that they've destroyed the native community. And again, I'm surprised a former UDL member is supporting the region crashers here. I suppose people's alignments change when they're trying to evade bans.

Which former UDL member would you happen to referring to? You seem to be making some pretty serious accusations here. I assume you are going to back them up?

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:59 pm**

Great Algerstonia wrote:I'm still not convinced that liberals deserve to have regions at all

Luckily for the rest of us, you have no say in that decision. How about you knock off the liberal bashing before it turns to flaming?

If you hate liberals that much, this site is not a good match for you. Given your record, if you don't stop with this sort of comment, you won't have a choice in the matter.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:09 pm**

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:I'm still not convinced that liberals deserve to have regions at all

Luckily for the rest of us, you have no say in that decision. How about you knock off the liberal bashing before it turns to flaming?

If you hate liberals that much, this site is not a good match for you. Given your record, if you don't stop with this sort of comment, you won't have a choice in the matter.

How on earth is any of that rule-breaking? If I said this about any ideology that was more controversial, I would be receiving no loom. :eyebrow:

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:40 pm**

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:Luckily for the rest of us, you have no say in that decision. How about you knock off the liberal bashing before it turns to flaming?

If you hate liberals that much, this site is not a good match for you. Given your record, if you don't stop with this sort of comment, you won't have a choice in the matter.

How on earth is any of that rule-breaking? If I said this about any ideology that was more controversial, I would be receiving no loom.

The reason you got loomed ominously at is because your habit of borderline spam/trolling 'shitposting' one-liners has not gone unnoticed by site staff. When a player with a lengthy warning record develops an apparent habit of throwing pointlessly incendiary grenades into threads, that doesn't tend to get a whole lot of benefit of the doubt.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:23 pm**

I am in full support of this resolution and thank the community for proposing this with such haste.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:36 pm**

Garchyland wrote:I am in full support of this resolution and thank the community for proposing this with such haste.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:47 pm**

Garchyland wrote:I am in full support of this resolution and thank the community for proposing this with such haste.

Wow…. A puppet that hasn’t answered any issues and has a grand sum of eight whole forum posts (including this one) is all that is needed for native support huh?

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:49 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Garchyland wrote:I am in full support of this resolution and thank the community for proposing this with such haste.

Wow…. A puppet that hasn’t answered any issues and has a grand sum of eight whole forum posts (including this one) is all that is needed for native support huh?

They've answered 55 issues.

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:50 pm**

Wayneactia wrote:
Garchyland wrote:I am in full support of this resolution and thank the community for proposing this with such haste.

Wow…. A puppet that hasn’t answered any issues and has a grand sum of eight whole forum posts (including this one) is all that is needed for native support huh?

I understand that you've dispensed delusions of Trovons, China, and whatever else being false flag ops by defenders. But suggesting that a delegate of five and a half years is a defender plant is breaking into a new level of alternate reality timelines.

NationStates

[PASSED] Liberate A Liberal Haven