[PASSED] Commend Emiline

[Varanius]

I approved it because a friend asked me to do so. That does not mean that I necessarily support it, or that the internal vote was for.

You...approved a commendation...of a person in regions you thought were OOC bad...?

[Apatosaurus]

I approved it because a friend asked me to do so. That does not mean that I necessarily support it, or that the internal vote was for.

You...approved a commendation...of a person in regions you thought were OOC bad...?

My personal reasoning for opposition was not that Anteria or the AA were OOC bad, and you should actually read my personal opinion in the IFV.

Edit: Here, in case you missed it:

[Aivintis]

The Free Nations Region has voted AGAINST this proposal:

(emphasis mine)

All the information regarding OOC issues was not available to the Free Nations Region at the time, nor are approvals regulated or approached as thoroughly and cautiously as delegates votes, just like every other region I can think of.

[Varanius]

You...approved a commendation...of a person in regions you thought were OOC bad...?

My personal reasoning for opposition was not that Anteria or the AA were OOC bad, and you should actually read my personal opinion in the IFV.

Edit: Here, in case you missed it:

But you let your region think so? I just...I don't understand how a region could state in an official WA recommendation that regions have OOC issues, while their delegate approved it? What sort of mess of a backwater region could wrap their head around that logic?

[Apatosaurus]

(emphasis mine)

All the information regarding OOC issues was not available to the Free Nations Region at the time, nor are approvals regulated or approached as thoroughly and cautiously as delegates votes, just like every other region I can think of.

Heh, imagine the amount of votes and IFV's we'd have if we started holding votes on Delegate approvals I see we'd have needed 4 votes for the last 48 hours!

[Fachumonn]

My personal reasoning for opposition was not that Anteria or the AA were OOC bad, and you should actually read my personal opinion in the IFV.

Edit: Here, in case you missed it:
(Image)

But you let your region think so? I just...I don't understand how a region could state in an official WA recommendation that regions have OOC issues, while their delegate approved it? What sort of mess of a backwater region could wrap their head around that logic?

In Apato's defense, I've approved many proposals that I ended up voting against.
Edit: Ninja'd by Apato.

[Varanius]

All the information regarding OOC issues was not available to the Free Nations Region at the time, nor are approvals regulated or approached as thoroughly and cautiously as delegates votes, just like every other region I can think of.

Heh, imagine the amount of votes and IFV's we'd have if we started holding votes on Delegate approvals I see we'd have needed 4 votes for the last 48 hours!

I mean, if someone is OOC bad, that's where the line is drawn. You don't approve their commendations? Like that's basic logic, you don't need a vote for that? also, would would the FNR care to share these alleged OOC issues with any of the thousands of votes in favor, including TWP? Because that's a serious accusation, and currently it looks like a made up one.

[Apatosaurus]

My personal reasoning for opposition was not that Anteria or the AA were OOC bad, and you should actually read my personal opinion in the IFV.

Edit: Here, in case you missed it:
(Image)

But you let your region think so? I just...I don't understand how a region could state in an official WA recommendation that regions have OOC issues, while their delegate approved it? What sort of mess of a backwater region could wrap their head around that logic?

My personal reasoning for opposition was that the writing was poor. The reasoning of others who voted against was Anteria/the AA's OOC issues, which we were approached about by an ally. How that makes the 24th largest non-puppet dump UCR, with over 100 Delegate endorsements, a "backwater" is beyond me.

[Aivintis]

Heh, imagine the amount of votes and IFV's we'd have if we started holding votes on Delegate approvals I see we'd have needed 4 votes for the last 48 hours!

I mean, if someone is OOC bad, that's where the line is drawn. You don't approve their commendations? Like that's basic logic, you don't need a vote for that? also, would would the FNR care to share these alleged OOC issues with any of the thousands of votes in favor, including TWP? Because that's a serious accusation, and currently it looks like a made up one.

I believe you are aware that OOC issues are not to be talked about in the forums.

[Betmet]

I have been truly blessed to meet Emiline and get to know her and interact with her frequently during my time in Nationstates. It brings me great joy that she has been recognized as a person who has positively impacted this community regardless of the outcome of the vote. This perhaps may be the first time that I make a post on the forums, but I saw a need to share my insight as to why she is deserving of commendation and I hope that those who did not get the chance to personally meet her or witness her work in Anteria and outside of it get to know her a little better through this post.

Anyone who has spent considerable time in Anteria, the Augustin Alliance, or any region/organization where Emi maintains an active presence could recognize to an extent the contributions she makes both directly and indirectly. I have always been astonished by the dedication that she has and the admirable sense of responsibility she holds towards any post that she fills. In Anteria I have seen in her the founder who takes it upon themselves to tackle all issues no matter how small or uncomfortable. I have bore witness to many situations where she went out of her way to guarantee that everyone in the region felt comfortable, safe and content even if that came at the expense (unfortunately) of her time and energy. I have been into a number of regions, either visiting them or attempting to find myself a place in them, however, it should be notable to anyone who has visited my nation recently or knows me personally that I have at last settled in Anteria. While I do hold the region and its community in high regard, and I have been delighted to be a member for years now, I must admit that one of the primary reasons why I chose to call Anteria my home is because of Emiline, for she has proven to be someone I can always feel comfortable approaching for any issue regardless of how relevant or important it is to her.

I've served in the Augustin Alliance as the Mayor of Ridgefield and the Cultural Officer within the Central Strategic Committee. I consider those two positions to be the peak of my activity and contribution in Nationstates. I find it highly important to mention that during my tenure as the Mayor of Ridgefield I've had a number of differences with Emiline (who was and continues to be an Admin in the organization), which I believe has only consolidated my belief that she is a person not only worth of trust, but in fact a person who is worthy of admiration and extreme respect. I believe that it is always important to witness someone in times of sorrow in order to judge their ability to constrain themselves and act rationally. It saddens me that said differences were in fact a source of discomfort for the both of us, they still were however demonstrations of maturity, self-constraint, wisdom, respect and overall appreciation.

The contributions that Emiline has made to this game are uncountable, and to mention them all is a mission I deem impossible. I have solely touched the surface of the many interactions that I have had with her, but I find myself lucky enough to say that I have met her.

At last, I wish to mention that despite some of the differences that a number of people could have with either her personally or any of the regions/organizations where she is omnipresent, I believe it is important that said differences do not obscure the true touch that she has added to hundreds of people in this game and the actual game itself. I am certain that if any person in this game deserves commendation, it would be Emiline, and I hope this view is soon proven to be manifested in the majority through the security council's vote.

[Bing bongians]

Who is Emilia I think. Cant remember. Still who da hek is dat.

[Varanius]

I mean, if someone is OOC bad, that's where the line is drawn. You don't approve their commendations? Like that's basic logic, you don't need a vote for that? also, would would the FNR care to share these alleged OOC issues with any of the thousands of votes in favor, including TWP? Because that's a serious accusation, and currently it looks like a made up one.

I believe you are aware that OOC issues are not to be talked about in the forums.

And I believe you know that when I said I'd hope you'd inform regions of these OOC issues, if they exist at all, I meant not on the forum. I think higher of you than to believe you, in good faith, interpreted my message as such.

[Apatosaurus]

I believe you are aware that OOC issues are not to be talked about in the forums.

And I believe you know that when I said I'd hope you'd inform regions of these OOC issues, if they exist at all, I meant not on the forum. I think higher of you than to believe you, in good faith, interpreted my message as such.

I mean, we were approached by an ally about these OOC issues.

[Penguin Dictators]

And I believe you know that when I said I'd hope you'd inform regions of these OOC issues, if they exist at all, I meant not on the forum. I think higher of you than to believe you, in good faith, interpreted my message as such.

I mean, we were approached by an ally about these OOC issues.

So they're word of mouth OOC issues? Forgive me, but I tend to not take too highly of stock in OOC accusations that were told to you by another party, but that you're not disclosing with other regions considering how serious OOC accusations are. Unless they're actual proven without a doubt and not just because "An ally said it, therefore it must be true," I'm going to be highly skeptical that such issues exist and that they weren't fabricated to slander someone's character.

[ChQ]

Вы действительно номинировали страну, где легализовано детское рабство? Их альянс заключает договоры с союзом социалистов, который в свою очередь очень активно голосует против ЛГБТК+ признания в школах. Вы серьезно?

[Aivintis]

I mean, we were approached by an ally about these OOC issues.

So they're word of mouth OOC issues? Forgive me, but I tend to not take too highly of stock in OOC accusations that were told to you by another party, but that you're not disclosing with other regions considering how serious OOC accusations are. Unless they're actual proven without a doubt and not just because "An ally said it, therefore it must be true," I'm going to be highly skeptical that such issues exist and that they weren't fabricated to slander someone's character.

If you wish to accuse Apatosaurus or me of slander and/or fabrication of evidence, an IC WASC forum is not the right place. I would suggest you direct it to Moderation, through an official channel. We said we had OOC concerns, that's all we should say about it. We are not seeking to sway anyone's votes or cause any drama. There are no "accusations" on our part.

[Varanius]

So they're word of mouth OOC issues? Forgive me, but I tend to not take too highly of stock in OOC accusations that were told to you by another party, but that you're not disclosing with other regions considering how serious OOC accusations are. Unless they're actual proven without a doubt and not just because "An ally said it, therefore it must be true," I'm going to be highly skeptical that such issues exist and that they weren't fabricated to slander someone's character.

If you wish to accuse Apatosaurus or me of slander and/or fabrication of evidence, an IC WASC forum is not the right place. I would suggest you direct it to Moderation, through an official channel. We said we had OOC concerns, that's all we should say about it. We are not seeking to sway anyone's votes or cause any drama. There are no "accusations" on our part.

This is absurd and nonsensical. To say a region has OOC issues is an accusation. That’s not something to be said lightly. Furthermore, if this isn’t the place to question the existence of OOC issues, this wasn’t the place for Apato raise them in his so called IFV. Whether or not you meant to cause drama is irrelevant, you levied a serious accusation like it was nothing, and then tried to pretend it didn’t happen, like a child found with their hand in the cookie jar.

[Penguin Dictators]

So they're word of mouth OOC issues? Forgive me, but I tend to not take too highly of stock in OOC accusations that were told to you by another party, but that you're not disclosing with other regions considering how serious OOC accusations are. Unless they're actual proven without a doubt and not just because "An ally said it, therefore it must be true," I'm going to be highly skeptical that such issues exist and that they weren't fabricated to slander someone's character.

If you wish to accuse Apatosaurus or me of slander and/or fabrication of evidence, an IC WASC forum is not the right place. I would suggest you direct it to Moderation, through an official channel. We said we had OOC concerns, that's all we should say about it. We are not seeking to sway anyone's votes or cause any drama. There are no "accusations" on our part.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this.

The only reason things like this would come up during a vote would specifically be to sway people's votes. If the real concern was the grammatical, or dare I say the OOC concerns, you had plenty of time since the end of November to bring up any concerns that you had towards the commendee or any OOC related affairs against them.

The fact that any and all of you saying these things waited until now to speak up compared to earlier when the bill was proposed reeks of trying to sway votes simply because you don't like the commendee. What you're saying may have merit, and it may not. But the fact that these accusations were waited on until the literal last minute during a time when, again, it could influence the vote makes it feel like this was purely done with that intention of swaying those votes rather than legitimately trying to raise concerns about something that is, again, a very serious accusation to make about someone.

[Free Algerstonia]

And people look at me funny when mixing IC and OOC in gameplay is a serious issue.

[Aivintis]

This is absurd and nonsensical. To say a region has OOC issues is an accusation. That’s not something to be said lightly. Furthermore, if this isn’t the place to question the existence of OOC issues, this wasn’t the place for Apato raise them in his so called IFV. Whether or not you meant to cause drama is irrelevant, you levied a serious accusation like it was nothing, and then tried to pretend it didn’t happen, like a child found with their hand in the cookie jar.

We have OOC concerns about the resolution. That doesn't mean we're saying "Regions X, Y, and Z are terrible people OOC" or anything like that. We're not making any specific accusations or trying to sway anyone's votes, Apato is simply releasing a document listing reasons why he voted against for transparency and accountability purposes within his office of WAD. He was not raising concerns, he was documenting them. Maybe he shouldn't have mentioned the OOC reasons, but it was relevant and it was not directed towards anyone in particular.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this.

The only reason things like this would come up during a vote would specifically be to sway people's votes. If the real concern was the grammatical, or dare I say the OOC concerns, you had plenty of time since the end of November to bring up any concerns that you had towards the commendee or any OOC related affairs against them.

The fact that any and all of you saying these things waited until now to speak up compared to earlier when the bill was proposed reeks of trying to sway votes simply because you don't like the commendee. What you're saying may have merit, and it may not. But the fact that these accusations were waited on until the literal last minute during a time when, again, it could influence the vote makes it feel like this was purely done with that intention of swaying those votes rather than legitimately trying to raise concerns about something that is, again, a very serious accusation to make about someone.

Why didn't we bring them up earlier? We weren't aware of them earlier. Hence why the proposal was approved, which Apato mentioned earlier iirc. The IFV was posted now because the debate and vote ended now. If we wanted to sway people's votes, why would we wait until the "last minute" rather than trying to sway as many votes as possible?

Anyway, if you guys want to continue trying to justify your slander narrative publicly, I won't respond, simply because I intend to put into practice the aforementioned preference of not discussing OOC in an IC thread, but you may contact me on discord @Mangegneithe#3881 if you wish to legitimately clear up potential miscommunications and such. I am in the WA server. I apologize to everyone else for this argument taking up the past like page or two with zero IC relevance.

[Penguin Dictators]

Why didn't we bring them up earlier? We weren't aware of them earlier. Hence why the proposal was approved, which Apato mentioned earlier iirc. The IFV was posted now because the debate and vote ended now. If we wanted to sway people's votes, why would we wait until the "last minute" rather than trying to sway as many votes as possible?

I find this hard to believe. Considering even Europeia had the decency to say, and I quote: "It must also be noted that Emiline may have been partially responsible for the Augustin Alliance's alleged misconduct against our allies in Thaecia." I'd be very surprised if it was just now being discovered by TEP in any capacity given that Thaecia is basically in TEP's sphere of regions. Not to mention as far as I recall, accusations from Thaecia on Emi's "misconduct" have yet to be proven, so they really have no place being brought up right during her commendation attempt.

Anyway, if you guys want to continue trying to justify your slander narrative publicly, I won't respond, simply because I intend to put into practice the aforementioned preference of not discussing OOC in an IC thread, but you may contact me on discord @Mangegneithe#3881 if you wish to legitimately clear up potential miscommunications and such. I am in the WA server. I apologize to everyone else for this argument taking up the past like page or two with zero IC relevance.

And I agree with not bringing up OOC stuff into an IC commendation. Perhaps the learning lesson for this is if you're going to tell someone stuff of that nature, perhaps you should also tell them to not put things like "Furthermore, both Anteria and the Augustin Alliance have had Out-Of-Character issues making it harder to support this resolution." in their publicly seen vote reasoning dispatch for that same person's commendation, otherwise it's going to come up, and it's rarely ever going to be pretty. Or, you know, wait until the commendation is over with to mention it so it doesn't come across as petty character slandering when something like that appears and rightfully gets called out for being there.

[Aivintis]

This is coming from FNR, not TEP.

[Goobergunchia]

I'll just say that this is not an appropriate forum to debate whether or not a player has committed misconduct that may have real world repercussions. No warnings this time but let's not do this again.

Goobergunchia
Game Moderator

[Varanius]

Should this make it to vote, you can trust I & others will be going ham on counter-campaigning.

And you seem to have done an amazing job. Truly spectacular opposition. No wonder this proposal failed. Oh wait…

Another victory for the Varasphere.

[Penguin Dictators]

It was a battle, but super glad this passed, congrats to a well deserving person.