[PASSED] Advancement of Anti-Fascist Action

[Reploid Productions]

Ugh, standby for threadtrawl, since apparently the reminder that this isn't NSG didn't stick.

[Reploid Productions]

So, starting from Sedge's last smack for threadjacking...

Lol at Authoritarian leftists trying to smash Authoritarian Rightists for the "Greater good"

clown world

Let's not play semantics here, this bill is literally a far-leftists wet dream because it excuses their garbage ideas.

actually what am I doing? Nationstates is literally a bunch of teenage marxists...lol, nevermind have fun with your "bill"

hypocritical authoritarian says what?

After considering your history across puppet nations, I think this time you win a somewhat stronger smacking. *** Bartson aka Nazeroth aka San Montalbano, 3-day ban for flamebaiting/trolling and threadjacking as recorded in the spoiler below. ***

Came here to see fashies seething.

Not disappointed.

Knock off the baity gloating.

What other groups need to be actively discouraged from existing?

british people

Already addressed this one here.

this is bait

Then report it instead of spamming up the thread with a completely off-topic comment.

And the threadjack:

Name a single communist state.

They don't exist because they always devolve into: totalitarian, criticism-intolerant, nationalistic, dictatorial regime with a command economy

Can you name any communist state from history?

This

they gladly accept Tankies into their ranks, Red Fascism is perfectly acceptable for them.

Nah, not a fan of left-wing authoritarianism either really.

So is Communism and Socialism then, all attempts have lead to massive death, the only ones escaping are those regimes that were force to introduce massive market deregulation and capitalism.

North-Korea is a fascist communist state. Is that not something we'd like to discourage?

North Korea is closer to a National Socialist Stratocratic Hereditary Monarchy to be specific

Marx literally advocated for eh hem "Revolutionary Terror" against "reactionarys" and anyone else "oppossed" to the "revolution"

Let's not play semantics here, this bill is literally a far-leftists wet dream because it excuses their garbage ideas.

Greater Cesnica, Jedinsto, consider yourselves Loomed Ominously at for getting sucked into and contributing to Bartson/San Montalbano's threadjacking.

Communism is not the topic of the thread. North Korea is not the topic of the thread, nor is the debate as to whether or not it's fascist or not. The tendency for communist regimes to turn into authoritarian hellholes is not the topic of the thread. What Marx argued is not the topic of the thread. Pre-emptively "which ideology has the higher kill count" is not the topic of the thread.

I'm not including the discussion about different flavors of fascism in this Ominous Looming, because "what counts as fascism with regards to this SC proposal" is at least tangentially relevant to the topic, though it is skirting a bit hazardously close to the line of "NSG is thataway" as well. Perhaps a more topic-relevant way to discuss that would be to argue in-game examples of different flavors of fascist regions/nations should be covered by the proposal as worded.

We know return you to your regularly-scheduled SC drama.

~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Catarapania]

You have to be able to define something if your going to "ban" it otherwise you just look foolishly ignorant.

spouting a bunch of "schools" without actually seperating them is meaningingless

Italian fascism - Baseline fascism.
National socialism - fascism at its utmost extreme.
Esoteric fascism - Nazism at its utmost extreme.
Integralism - Catholic theocratic school of fascism with emphasis on the unity, not division, of races.
Falangism - School of clerical fascism that derives its power from a strong, national-syndicalist government.
Showa Statism - A uniquely Japanese style of fascism that rules around revering the figurehead of a highly militarized, theocratic, and pseudo-corporate state.
Neofascism - A school of fascism which focuses more on its implementation in the modern day.
Neo-Nazism - A primarily American school of fascism which claims the title of Nazism but differs from it in numerous areas, the most notable being the common advocation of a state religion, hatred of Islam in particular, and the adoration of American strongmen such as Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, and the Confederacy.
Clerical fascism - A uniquely Christian theocratic school of fascism. Separate from religious fascism as it usually focuses more on the catholic faith in particular but not an adoration towards the Pope.
Religious fascism - A school of fascism which focuses on not a specific religion in particular but instead various religions in general. Many religious fascist movements can share the title while being from different religions, such as the Iron Guard and the Lehi. All clerical fascist movements are religious fascist, not all religious fascist movements are clerical fascist.
Austrofascism - A uniquely Austrian school of clerical fascism which focuses on the supremacy of the Austrian race and isolationism.
Metaxism - A school of Greek fascism which promotes the creation of a new Greek civilization and the rejection of modern liberal politics while lacking theoretical ideals associated with most other schools.
Estado Novo - A school of Portuguese fascism which promotes the establishment of Portuguese rule over a new empire and that newly acquired territories be incorporated into Portugal itself.
Rexism - A Belgian school of Clerical fascism which calls for a theocratic government and a holy monarchy.
British fascism - A uniquely British school of fascism which calls for the uniting of Europe into a singular entity.
Eco-fascism - A school of fascism which calls for the populace of a nation to give their individual identities up to a collective "rule of nature".

Integralism isn't authoritarian/totalitarian, stresses trade unions and localism over and against a centralized state, and is opposed to the philosophical basis of the nationalism that typically motivates fascism. I'm sure that similar criticisms could be made of your choice to include other religious forms of governmental philosophy.

You might have other reasons to dislike Integralism, but trying to tar-and-feather it won't make it a fascist bird.

[HISPIDA]

Italian fascism - Baseline fascism.
National socialism - fascism at its utmost extreme.
Esoteric fascism - Nazism at its utmost extreme.
Integralism - Catholic theocratic school of fascism with emphasis on the unity, not division, of races.
Falangism - School of clerical fascism that derives its power from a strong, national-syndicalist government.
Showa Statism - A uniquely Japanese style of fascism that rules around revering the figurehead of a highly militarized, theocratic, and pseudo-corporate state.
Neofascism - A school of fascism which focuses more on its implementation in the modern day.
Neo-Nazism - A primarily American school of fascism which claims the title of Nazism but differs from it in numerous areas, the most notable being the common advocation of a state religion, hatred of Islam in particular, and the adoration of American strongmen such as Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, and the Confederacy.
Clerical fascism - A uniquely Christian theocratic school of fascism. Separate from religious fascism as it usually focuses more on the catholic faith in particular but not an adoration towards the Pope.
Religious fascism - A school of fascism which focuses on not a specific religion in particular but instead various religions in general. Many religious fascist movements can share the title while being from different religions, such as the Iron Guard and the Lehi. All clerical fascist movements are religious fascist, not all religious fascist movements are clerical fascist.
Austrofascism - A uniquely Austrian school of clerical fascism which focuses on the supremacy of the Austrian race and isolationism.
Metaxism - A school of Greek fascism which promotes the creation of a new Greek civilization and the rejection of modern liberal politics while lacking theoretical ideals associated with most other schools.
Estado Novo - A school of Portuguese fascism which promotes the establishment of Portuguese rule over a new empire and that newly acquired territories be incorporated into Portugal itself.
Rexism - A Belgian school of Clerical fascism which calls for a theocratic government and a holy monarchy.
British fascism - A uniquely British school of fascism which calls for the uniting of Europe into a singular entity.
Eco-fascism - A school of fascism which calls for the populace of a nation to give their individual identities up to a collective "rule of nature".

Integralism isn't authoritarian/totalitarian, stresses trade unions and localism over and against a centralized state, and is opposed to the philosophical basis of the nationalism that typically motivates fascism. I'm sure that similar criticisms could be made of your choice to include other religious forms of governmental philosophy.

You might have other reasons to dislike Integralism, but trying to tar-and-feather it won't make it a fascist bird.

I believe there may be a bit of confusion here. I'm specifically referring to Brazilian integralism, not integralism in general. My fault for not specifying.

[Catarapania]

Integralism isn't authoritarian/totalitarian, stresses trade unions and localism over and against a centralized state, and is opposed to the philosophical basis of the nationalism that typically motivates fascism. I'm sure that similar criticisms could be made of your choice to include other religious forms of governmental philosophy.

You might have other reasons to dislike Integralism, but trying to tar-and-feather it won't make it a fascist bird.

I believe there may be a bit of confusion here. I'm specifically referring to Brazilian integralism, not integralism in general. My fault for not specifying.

So long as a hard, clear line is drawn between traditionalism/tradcons and the fascists, I have no complaints.

[Luziyca]

From one seat, a cobweb-covered skeleton of the Luziycan ambassador to the Security Council, long unaware that his nation had left the World Assembly twitched. As dust rose from the chamber, the skeleton turned to two people debating a bunch of nonsense.

With as much force as he could muster, the ex-ambassador spoke for the first time in years.

"I don't think you are talking about the resolution, colleagues. I think you are talking about real life politics. Now if you, wait, is it me or am I seeing a declaration? Who on Earth added that?"

[Wallenburg]

From one seat, a cobweb-covered skeleton of the Luziycan ambassador to the Security Council, long unaware that his nation had left the World Assembly twitched. As dust rose from the chamber, the skeleton turned to two people debating a bunch of nonsense.

With as much force as he could muster, the ex-ambassador spoke for the first time in years.

"I don't think you are talking about the resolution, colleagues. I think you are talking about real life politics. Now if you, wait, is it me or am I seeing a declaration? Who on Earth added that?"

"This is real life," responds Deputy Holt. "Trust me, whatever cursèd thing has happened to you, this is still life. Now, it's hard as bones--sorry--to figure out what they're saying, with the universal translators bending over backwards as the ACME Language Realignment Moderators sort out what we get to hear, but it sounds to me like these folks are arguing about what counts as fascism. Personally, I don't really get the distinctions they are drawing. The political struggle is between capitalist hierarchy and socialist freedom. These secondary concerns seem to do nothing but distinguish between one and another oppressive society, when democracy in government, democracy in the market, and democracy in the community are all necessary to achieve a halfway decent society."

Holt shrugs his shoulders. "But what do I know? I cheated the political science exams. I've gone over this material with Mr. Ogenbond and he agrees that the directives here are obviously conducive to a better World Assembly, regardless of the success of enforcement. Fascism, as I understand it, has no place in the World Assembly, being fundamentally and existentially in opposition to the civil rights and global disarmament directives of the General Assembly. The resolution has my office's support, in spite of the recently poor behavior of its authoring delegation and the nation from which it hails."

[Yazakhastan]

Dissent
Friends, it is to be recognized that NS is a site for all peoples of all nations and political ideologies. No matter how controversial or politically incorrect. It must be recognized that most of these fascist nations are internet trolls attempting to spread unnecessary sensationalism amongst the World Wide Web. If we pay them no heed, they will go away, seeing as they failed to draw the ire of the International Community.
Furthermore it is to be recognized that it is not the duty of our fellow countrymen to ostracize others for incorrect behavior, but the duty of the moderators.
While it is to be agreed that fascist behavior is unfavorable, we must maintain a stance of good patience and dignity in dealing with these nations, only striking when they have crossed into the territory of cyber-bullying or online harassment.
And while no-one wants to deal with fascists we must grow up and determine with the good God given logic, that these nations are merely acting out their sickening power fantasies.
Give these fascists no heed, for trolls they indeed are. Let the higher authority take care of them and enjoy your life.

[Wellington Bingbong]

I think the draft would need to define fascism. The WA cannot advocate for the destruction of something it has not legally defined.

Your current definition is self-referential.

Agree with the sentiment of the proposal, but feel that this nation's point is very strong. Choosing to abstain; with no definition of fascism in the article, it opens up any behaviour to be labelled as fascist. I do note previous passed proposals that have a definition of fascism as decided upon by the council, but that should still have been linked to in this legislation. I do also note that the proposal is mostly symbolic, with few in-game effects, but it is Wellington Bingbong's view that proposed legislation must meet an effective standard for approval.

[Aerilithia]

This "resolution" is well beyond the scope of the Security Council, or any other governmental body for that matter. This is well beyond instituting laws and is into the realm of defining what forms of government that are and aren't allowed. Which by it's very nature breaks the meaning of NS, which is to allow people to form and shape their OWN forms of government, however they see fit. If someone wants a Fascist government, that's their choice. If someone wants a Socialist government, that's their choice. If someone wants a Communist government, that's their choice. The World Assembly, and by extension the Security Council, no matter how highly they think of themselves, has the Power or Authority to say otherwise. The WA/SC may have the power and authority, to a limited extent, to meddle in the affairs of said governments, but not to change or outright ban a said form of government.

I'm curious how such a "resolution" was even allowed to go forward?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I'm curious how such a "resolution" was even allowed to go forward?

I believe that this has to do with fascists being labeled as the evils of the world, on whom all of the misdeeds of our civilization lay. This declaration not defining fascism is actually pretty horrifying to me because it will allow certain organizations to wield and twist it as they want.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I'm curious how such a "resolution" was even allowed to go forward?

Because it met all the legal requirements for a Security Council Declaration. Maybe a perusal of what a Declaration is and the SC rules would help clear your confusion.

[WayNeacTia]

I'm curious how such a "resolution" was even allowed to go forward?

I believe that this has to do with fascists being labeled as the evils of the world, on whom all of the misdeeds of our civilization lay. This declaration not defining fascism is actually pretty horrifying to me because it will allow certain organizations to wield and twist it as they want.

That's not anything new. This will change absolutely nothing. Declarations can't force anything, so you can drop this argument anytime.

[Hanovereich]

I will repeal this at the first possible instant when it comes through.

1. No clear definition of ‘fascism’ means that regions which this is directed to have a loophole to get out.
2. Furthermore, a ‘fascist region’ is defined as a region that identifies itself as fascist. I do not need to give further explanation.
3. ‘Diplomatic and cultural relations’ does not give enough detail. Can we talk to them?
4. ‘….approve or vote for any World Assembly proposal submitted by a fascist nation or any nation residing in a fascist region…’ again, no definition of a fascist region. And this looks very close to being outside our jurisdiction.
5. ‘provide military assistance to a fascist region’ No definition.
6. ‘…Security Council proposals to impose sanctions against fascist regions’ that’s just condemnations, then. This gives us free rein to condemn any and all vaguely-defined regions just because this tells them to.

[Haistinland]

Don't you all know that Antifa is much a bigger threat and more violent then the fascists their fighting against.

This is why I voted against, if we include far left and communistic ideas, perhaps I would agree with the resolution

[WayNeacTia]

I will repeal this at the first possible instant when it comes through.

1. No clear definition of ‘fascism’ means that regions which this is directed to have a loophole to get out.
2. Furthermore, a ‘fascist region’ is defined as a region that identifies itself as fascist. I do not need to give further explanation.
3. ‘Diplomatic and cultural relations’ does not give enough detail. Can we talk to them?
4. ‘….approve or vote for any World Assembly proposal submitted by a fascist nation or any nation residing in a fascist region…’ again, no definition of a fascist region. And this looks very close to being outside our jurisdiction.
5. ‘provide military assistance to a fascist region’ No definition.
6. ‘…Security Council proposals to impose sanctions against fascist regions’ that’s just condemnations, then. This gives us free rein to condemn any and all vaguely-defined regions just because this tells them to.

Good luck. You are seriously going to need it. First of all nobody need a loophole. There is nothing binding in the resolution and that has been stated over and over. You may as well drop this argument as you obviously are seriously misinformed.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Don't you all know that Antifa is much a bigger threat and more violent then the fascists their fighting against.

This is why I voted against, if we include far left and communistic ideas, perhaps I would agree with the resolution

In the eyes of the WA Antifa are fine because they mostly leave the libleft unattacked. I assure you that if they targeted LGBTQ there’d be already a passed resolution condemning them

[Hanovereich]

No, I’ll carry on. There are probably other, better arguments against this though that I missed.

[WayNeacTia]

No, I’ll carry on. There are probably other, better arguments against this though that I missed.

Tilt away then.

[The Onion Union]

I am against this idea

[Lord Dominator]

This is why I voted against, if we include far left and communistic ideas, perhaps I would agree with the resolution

In the eyes of the WA Antifa are fine because they mostly leave the libleft unattacked. I assure you that if they targeted LGBTQ there’d be already a passed resolution condemning them

Probably not, since “antifa” would instead not exist due to no one wishing to work under that banner.

[Marxist Germany]

That is exactly the problem with this proposal; it promotes a practice that is nothing more than ideological warfare, and clearly takes the leftist side of the issue.

Antifascism is a strictly leftist concern?

OOC: Whilst opposition to fascism is not strictly leftist, Antifa is a leftist organisation, and the view that fascists must be censored and purged from every medium of communication is a predominantly leftist one.

OOC: Nowhere in this thread did I say that I supported fascism. My stance is against raiding in all of its forms, when done against non-raider regions.

Sure. That's why.

Perhaps you should not try to grasp at non-existent straws? If this proposal was targetted at communism, the Frankfurt School, or any other leftist ideology you can imagine, I would have the same opposition to it.

[Yazakhastan]

In the eyes of the WA Antifa are fine because they mostly leave the libleft unattacked. I assure you that if they targeted LGBTQ there’d be already a passed resolution condemning them

Probably not, since “antifa” would instead not exist due to no one wishing to work under that banner.

Noone wants to work under Antifa because of its association as a terrorist far right organization bent on undermining democratic institutions.

[Cruciland]

I'm curious how such a "resolution" was even allowed to go forward?

I believe that this has to do with fascists being labeled as the evils of the world, on whom all of the misdeeds of our civilization lay. This declaration not defining fascism is actually pretty horrifying to me because it will allow certain organizations to wield and twist it as they want.

And frankly, the definitions provided for "fascism" in this thread can be alarmingly broad. But more to the point, if we narrowed fascism down to its core ideology, then banning it would fail to even touch many of the evils conflated with fascism, such as racism, sexism, antisemitism, and even suppression of the proletariat. In reality, fascism is just a more nuanced form of other autocratic regimes like absolute monarchy.

[Catarapania]

I believe that this has to do with fascists being labeled as the evils of the world, on whom all of the misdeeds of our civilization lay. This declaration not defining fascism is actually pretty horrifying to me because it will allow certain organizations to wield and twist it as they want.

And frankly, the definitions provided for "fascism" in this thread can be alarmingly broad. But more to the point, if we narrowed fascism down to its core ideology, then banning it would fail to even touch many of the evils conflated with fascism, such as racism, sexism, antisemitism, and even suppression of the proletariat. In reality, fascism is just a more nuanced form of other autocratic regimes like absolute monarchy.

Things conflated with fascism =/= fascism.