[DEFEATED] Against Quorum Raiding

[Nova Vandalia]

You know I've though about this and the new category, and as a nation that has Quorum Raided, I have to give this my full support. This is going to give us a citation to argue that Quorum Raiding is with little doubt IC bad if it passes, which means that we can use a passed Declaration like this if it passes to lay out IC ground work and then as a reference in actual SC proposals to back up condemnations for Quorum Raiders, since those are given out for to those nations we agree have done villainous things. Is it likely in the immediate no, but as the power of Declarations grow and change I think it's quite likely an outcome. So in the long term with a well written proposal I'm glad to see we will finally have a route to give the hard working Quorum Denial Raiders that badge of "dis"honor they deserve, with proof that the community at large decided these maneuvers are IC evil enough to warrant the SC expressing it. So again Full Support from me!

[Jedinsto]

Appreciated ^^^^

[Overthinkers]

You know I've though about this and the new category, and as a nation that has Quorum Raided, I have to give this my full support. This is going to give us a citation to argue that Quorum Raiding is with little doubt IC bad if it passes, which means that we can use a passed Declaration like this if it passes to lay out IC ground work and then as a reference in actual SC proposals to back up condemnations for Quorum Raiders, since those are given out for to those nations we agree have done villainous things. Is it likely in the immediate no, but as the power of Declarations grow and change I think it's quite likely an outcome. So in the long term with a well written proposal I'm glad to see we will finally have a route to give the hard working Quorum Denial Raiders that badge of "dis"honor they deserve, with proof that the community at large decided these maneuvers are IC evil enough to warrant the SC expressing it. So again Full Support from me!

You know, this is actually smart.

(Still have to QD this to keep up appearances.)

[Astrobolt]

I'd vote against this proposal if clause 4 remains. Quorum raiding is not suddenly permissible if the proposal itself would advance the cause of fascism, is OOC problematic, or even the author is problematic. The reason for this is that quorum raiding isn't an attack against the proposal, but an attack on the regions approving the proposal. Those regions are not automatically themselves racist, fascist or otherwise problematic and should be protected. I feel as written, clause 4 would give regions additional license to say "even the SC thinks we can quorum raid in this circumstance", which isn't really ideal.

[Jedinsto]

while not necessarily pardoning them

Edit: I suppose I can make that more passionate.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

There's very little to discuss here beyond to note that there are legitimate circumstances where quorum raiding can and should be undertaken, and that I am against this declaration.

What are the legitimate circumstances?

Similar to what happened in January, where The North Pacific and partners undertook quorum raiding to prevent a pro-fascist resolution from reaching quorum. Quorum raiding should only be undertaken as a last resort and after multiple attempts to reach approving delegates, but there are circumstances where it is legitimate to engage in.

[Unibot III]

Victims of queue raiding aren’t related to the nominee or target of the raid.

I know. I agree with you here. There has been enough dissent towards actively discouraging quorum raiding that I will exempt it. Next draft now in progress.

But like.. what’s the point of this resolution if it’s exempting most forms of queue raiding?

Most queue raiders justify their actions based off the target or nominee — it’s still an undemocratic practice and it impacts regions mostly unrelated to the actual target.

[Jedinsto]

The point of this resolution is to declare the SC's opposition to quorum raid outside of anti-fascism and stuff like that. It happens.

[Unibot III]

What are the legitimate circumstances?

Similar to what happened in January, where The North Pacific and partners undertook quorum raiding to prevent a pro-fascist resolution from reaching quorum. Quorum raiding should only be undertaken as a last resort and after multiple attempts to reach approving delegates, but there are circumstances where it is legitimate to engage in.

If you’re unable to persuade enough delegates to unapprove a proposal … have you tried letting it get to vote instead… and letting the WA vote on it …?

The WA has a voting floor intended for proposed legislation… even ones that you don’t like.

The point of this resolution is to declare the SC's opposition to quorum raid outside of anti-fascism and stuff like that. It happens.

Have these anti-fascists ever contemplated voting on something before?

Invading and displacing delegates by force is an odd way of opposing fascism. Why not.. respect the WA and the voting process?

One of the main issues with this is anti-fascism is ill-defined in NS — people accuse all sorts of regions as fascists. In a working democratic body, member-states would be allowed to vote and decide collectively which regions are fascist or problematic. In a body that provides such exemptions, it’s up to queue raiders to decide on everyone else’s behalf who are the fascists and cancel ever other region’s voices by force.

[Jedinsto]

Similar to what happened in January, where The North Pacific and partners undertook quorum raiding to prevent a pro-fascist resolution from reaching quorum. Quorum raiding should only be undertaken as a last resort and after multiple attempts to reach approving delegates, but there are circumstances where it is legitimate to engage in.

If you’re unable to persuade enough delegates to unapprove a proposal … have you tried letting it get to vote instead… and letting the WA vote on it …?

The WA has a voting floor intended for proposed legislation… even ones that you don’t like.

^

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Similar to what happened in January, where The North Pacific and partners undertook quorum raiding to prevent a pro-fascist resolution from reaching quorum. Quorum raiding should only be undertaken as a last resort and after multiple attempts to reach approving delegates, but there are circumstances where it is legitimate to engage in.

If you’re unable to persuade enough delegates to unapprove a proposal … have you tried letting it get to vote instead… and letting the WA vote on it …?

As much as I'm loathe to engage you in any kind of discussion - letting a pro-fascist proposal get to vote is a win for them via the publicity they will get. A few upset delegates is much less publicity than a site wide resolution that anyone who clicks the WA button is going to see.

I will always favour anything that reduces the visibility and viability of fascist regions - you, apparently, don't.

[The Python]

There's very little to discuss here beyond to note that there are legitimate circumstances where quorum raiding can and should be undertaken, and that I am against this declaration.

Insert pikathink emoji here.

[Jedinsto]

If you’re unable to persuade enough delegates to unapprove a proposal … have you tried letting it get to vote instead… and letting the WA vote on it …?

As much as I'm loathe to engage you in any kind of discussion - letting a pro-fascist proposal get to vote is a win for them via the publicity they will get. A few upset delegates is much less publicity than a site wide resolution that anyone who clicks the WA button is going to see.

I will always favour anything that reduces the visibility and viability of fascist regions - you, apparently, don't.

Based on the new changes, how do you stand?

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

As much as I'm loathe to engage you in any kind of discussion - letting a pro-fascist proposal get to vote is a win for them via the publicity they will get. A few upset delegates is much less publicity than a site wide resolution that anyone who clicks the WA button is going to see.

I will always favour anything that reduces the visibility and viability of fascist regions - you, apparently, don't.

Based on the new changes, how do you stand?

That is something I could support - and would encourage everyone to.

[Unibot III]

If you’re unable to persuade enough delegates to unapprove a proposal … have you tried letting it get to vote instead… and letting the WA vote on it …?

As much as I'm loathe to engage you in any kind of discussion - letting a pro-fascist proposal get to vote is a win for them via the publicity they will get. A few upset delegates is much less publicity than a site wide resolution that anyone who clicks the WA button is going to see.

I will always favour anything that reduces the visibility and viability of fascist regions - you, apparently, don't.

The evidence has never suggested this kind of publicity helps grow regions. Regional data suggested the exact opposite in Nazi Europe’s case, for instance.

It’s a lazy assumption to justify overzealous attacks on other regions.

[Varanius]

Overzealous attacks = bumping a delegate

[Goobergunchia]

Opposed unless Clause 4 is removed. As written this is not against quorum raiding, and we have repeatedly seen that what exactly constitutes "pro-fascism" is subject to dispute. Also it ends in a comma.

[Jedinsto]

There we go. I've said bye bye to the compromise, after all I like to speak my mind. If the majority of the WA disagrees with me then so be it.

[Picairn]

You know I've though about this and the new category, and as a nation that has Quorum Raided, I have to give this my full support. This is going to give us a citation to argue that Quorum Raiding is with little doubt IC bad if it passes, which means that we can use a passed Declaration like this if it passes to lay out IC ground work and then as a reference in actual SC proposals to back up condemnations for Quorum Raiders, since those are given out for to those nations we agree have done villainous things. Is it likely in the immediate no, but as the power of Declarations grow and change I think it's quite likely an outcome. So in the long term with a well written proposal I'm glad to see we will finally have a route to give the hard working Quorum Denial Raiders that badge of "dis"honor they deserve, with proof that the community at large decided these maneuvers are IC evil enough to warrant the SC expressing it. So again Full Support from me!

Big brain visionary thinking here. Full support.

[Kranostav]

There we go. I've said bye bye to the compromise, after all I like to speak my mind. If the majority of the WA disagrees with me then so be it.

And with this so goes support, quorum raiding is a useful and legitimate tool to deal with fascists in NS, especially those who try to put forth their proposals to help advertise and portray themselves as anything but fash.

You'd really think this would be a much simpler concept for people to understand, but sticks in the mud are gonna stick.

[Jedinsto]

If you’re calling me a stick in the mud, I think you’re sorely mistaken.

[The Python]

There we go. I've said bye bye to the compromise, after all I like to speak my mind. If the majority of the WA disagrees with me then so be it.

And with this so goes support, quorum raiding is a useful and legitimate tool to deal with fascists in NS, especially those who try to put forth their proposals to help advertise and portray themselves as anything but fash.

You'd really think this would be a much simpler concept for people to understand, but sticks in the mud are gonna stick.

BASH DA FASH! BASH DA FASH! FASH BASH FASH BASH

[Cormactopia Prime]

I'm obviously going to be opposed to this regardless as I support the practice of quorum raiding, but that aside, instead of churning these out as quickly as possible is there any chance we could try putting some actual effort into them and inaugurating the new category with proposals of decent quality?

Against regardless, but especially against because it's rushed, simplistic, sloppy, and beneath modern Security Council standards in my opinion.

[Kranostav]

I'm obviously going to be opposed to this regardless as I support the practice of quorum raiding, but that aside, instead of churning these out as quickly as possible is there any chance we could try putting some actual effort into them and inaugurating the new category with proposals of decent quality?

Against regardless, but especially against because it's rushed, simplistic, sloppy, and beneath modern Security Council standards in my opinion.

This, so much this.

We have a special opportunity to create the foundations of a new legislative category (thats literally not even released yet), lets really not throw trash at it or let badge hunting get to it this quickly.

[Jedinsto]

Waking up to brand new badge hunting accusations, gotta love it. Instead of saying my proposal's rushed and poorly written, how about you actually provide some real feedback?