[DEFEATED] Against Quorum Raiding

[Jedinsto]

I forgor (skull emoji)

[WayNeacTia]

I wish the author all the luck in the world, but I really don't foresee this passing.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Just noticed this:

turning into an alternative for counter-campaigning any telegram getting to vote,

Telegrams get to vote? I thought proposals did. Considering the time spent on this the proof reading has not been that good.

[Cappedore]

I forgor (skull emoji)

This doesn't answer my question. Cappedore is against this proposal.

[Jedinsto]

Just noticed this:

turning into an alternative for counter-campaigning any telegram getting to vote,

Telegrams get to vote? I thought proposals did. Considering the time spent on this the proof reading has not been that good.

Ah yeah I guess I missed that, I did proofread at some point before submission but I guess I overlooked that

[Partnership for Sovereignty]

The Partnership for Sovereignty recommends a vote FOR "Against Quorum Raiding”: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1584359

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Quorum raiding is an over-exaggerated problem. Because of this and the error in the proposal I’m recommending an “Against” vote to TWP’s Delegate.

[Greater Cesnica]

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The Europeian Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote AGAINST the Security Council Declaration, "Against Quorum Raiding".
Its reasoning may be found here.

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[PotatoFarmers]

Ah, I see why a tag:wa telegram needs to be sent now. Still feel disgusted that the TG fails to recognise some of the flaws of the proposal, and merely the arguments to support the proposal mainly comes from saying "Quorum Raiding is morally bad"

[Thassala]

I'm in two minds regarding this, and apologies if this has been litigated within the last seven pages. I overlooked it if it has.

I certainly don't think that the way to safeguard democracy is via anti-democratic action, which is what quorum raiding appears to be. Removing the right to vote from people because you disagree with their position is, in my opinion, fundamentally dishonest. However, will this actually achieve anything tangible? If not, unfortunately, I fail to see what good the passage of this declaration serves.

[Kranostav]

Ah, I see why a tag:wa telegram needs to be sent now. Still feel disgusted that the TG fails to recognise some of the flaws of the proposal, and merely the arguments to support the proposal mainly comes from saying "Quorum Raiding is morally bad"

Welcome to moral fendaism, being concerned with reality is not their ideology's strong suit.

[Kranostav]

While I am not an official representative of the WA Ministry of the North Pacific, I'd invite everyone to take a look at their latest vote recommendation, and particularly take note of the anti-fascist entities and regions who oppose this proposal due to the damage it will inflict on their ability to fight the worst people in NS

TNP Vote Rec: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1584529

[Jedinsto]

Huh this is kinda interesting. Right now, this is winning the individual nation vote, but losing somewhat badly in the overall vote. Then again this has only been at vote for an hour or so.

[Kranostav]

Huh this is kinda interesting. Right now, this is winning the individual nation vote, but losing somewhat badly in the overall vote. Then again this has only been at vote for an hour or so.

Right now only about 400-500 nations have individually voted, a better representation will be seen later today/tonight.

[Varanius]

This proposal seems to be going about as well as predicted.

[Unibot III]

I think the resolution is doing remarkably well in the light of the heavyweights that have voted against it.

[Nova Scorpico]

I have to say that this raiding seems underhanded and completely undemocratic.

[Tinhampton]

Ah, I see why a tag:wa telegram needs to be sent now. Still feel disgusted that the TG fails to recognise some of the flaws of the proposal, and merely the arguments to support the proposal mainly comes from saying "Quorum Raiding is morally bad"

I reproduce it here for the benefit of time-travellers from the future (it was sent at 16:05:12 BST today, an hour before AQR got to vote):

Hello, %NATION%!

The Partnership for Sovereignty, a coalition of like-minded regions concerned for the self-determination and security of all regions, would like you to vote FOR the declaration entitled "Against Quorum Raiding" when it reaches the floor of the Security Council for a vote.

Today, many regions, and maybe even your own, continue to face threats by those who disregard the rights and freedoms of voting World Assembly members, specifically in how regional delegates cast their approvals on World Assembly resolutions.

These forces engage in a practice variously called "quorum raiding" or "approval raiding", but it is all the same. Through this practice, they invade innocent regions and topple delegates to remove an approval on proposed World Assembly resolutions they do not support. Instead of using the democratic process of the floor vote, they would rather use the threat of force to get their way.

Some proponents of this practice argue that quorum raiding is necessary to prevent hateful ideologists from scoring wins in the World Assembly with trojan horse proposals. That much is true, and the proposed declaration carves out an exception on that basis whilst advocating for the sovereignty of innocent regions.

The proposed declaration, "Against Quorum Raiding", would send a strong message that the World Assembly stands opposed to this unfair and anti-democratic practice, but it needs you to vote FOR.

Can the Partnership for Sovereignty count on you to vote FOR? If so, again, please make sure to head on over to "Against Quorum Raiding" and vote FOR.


An extended version of our recommendation is available below:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1584359

Thank you for your time, and feel free to telegram back if you have any queries or concerns!

The Partnership for Sovereignty, composed of
- 10000 Islands
- The South Pacific
- The Rejected Realms
- The Union of Democratic States
- The Free Nations Region
- Spiritus
- Philippines
- The League

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The North Pacific's delegate tag:wa'd the following in response at 22:13:47 BST today:

A joint statement on the Security Council declaration, “Against Quorum Raiding” from the World Assembly Legislative League:

Hello, %NATION%

This statement is a response to the Partnership for Sovereignty’s mass telegram to all WA members, by the World Assembly Legislative League. Our policy is not normally to issue mass telegrams except in exceptional circumstances, or to respond to a mass telegram that has already been sent, as we do not support filling telegram inboxes with unsolicited WA campaign material.

On the resolution itself; while we recognize that quorum raiding can have negative impacts, especially on the World Assembly authors and the community writ large, we nevertheless consider it to be a necessary tool against hateful groups and ideologies which seek to use the Security Council to further their agendas. We therefore take a firm stance against the Security Council declaration currently at-vote, “Against Quorum Raiding”.

Our primary collective objection to the proposal emerges from article 2 of the declaration. This article “urges militaries to immediately cease quorum raiding operations” except where the proposal serves as a tool for a “particularly hateful ideology”. It then goes on to state that an operation can only take place if “the only regions targeted by the operation are supporters of such an ideology”. This limits the whole exception to worthlessness, as most such proposals make it into quorum by being approved by regional delegates who do not belong to regions of an explicitly “hateful ideology”.

When it comes to proposals that further vile and hateful ideologies or regions which espouse such ideologies, the majority of the approvals do not come from like-minded delegates. Rather, they come from delegates of regions which do not espouse such ideologies. Restricting the targeting of Delegates to only those of a hateful ideology would render virtually all quorum raiding attempts futile. If the Security Council were to adopt this restriction, we would no doubt see an increase in inappropriate rhetoric reaching the chambers of the World Assembly voting floor.

Furthermore, article 3 of the resolution calls for “extensive forethought” before using even this impotent clause. That is representative of the lack of pragmatism considered by the author of the resolution: time is often of the essence in preventing proposals reaching the floor and only decisive military action counts in this regard.

As per the above reasoning, the World Assembly Legislative League has voted to oppose this declaration, and we encourage other nations and regions to follow suit.

This joint statement is brought to you from the World Assembly Legislative League, as endorsed by a majority of signatories

[Jedinsto]

Huh this is kinda interesting. Right now, this is winning the individual nation vote, but losing somewhat badly in the overall vote. Then again this has only been at vote for an hour or so.

Right now only about 400-500 nations have individually voted, a better representation will be seen later today/tonight.

As of this moment, the individual nation vote is losing by 3 votes. I don’t really expect this to pass but I suppose it could happen.

[PotatoFarmers]

Right now only about 400-500 nations have individually voted, a better representation will be seen later today/tonight.

As of this moment, the individual nation vote is losing by 3 votes. I don’t really expect this to pass but I suppose it could happen.

Losing by 157 now.

For: 3,015: Amerion (677), Wischland (340), Thaelle (132), Ruinenlust (116), Brototh (99), The Salaxalans (65), Sylh Alanor (59), Vancouvia (55), Dabberwocky (39), Quinceria (38), Paleocacher (35), Candensia (32), Lamerdon (26), New Scottsville (22), Nagistan (20), Castle Federation (19), Ecclestia (16), Calnodia (16), Aera Ninel (12), The Hard Part (11), Aftenheim (11), Romanian Sultanate (10), Halcyon Nova (10), One Small Island (10), Seludong (10), Otaku Stratus (9), Golanchia (8), Ktchenia (8), Rogue River (7), The Scottish Republic (7), Orennica (7), Catrabania (7), Killzone35 (6), The Soviet state of Svalbard (6), Kustonia (6), El Varctica (6), Creative Branding (6), Tianjastan (5), Wadelhelpia (5), Voxija (5), Omniabstracta (5), Hetairaea (5), United McCormack Empire (4), Socialist Amogus (4), Willtechia (4), Rokdoverstan (3), Chiarje (3), North-West Commland (3), Ethwelistan (3), The Candy Of Bottles (3), Atcquatica (3), Alistia (3), Silver-Tree (2), NinjitsUtopia (2), Santa Monica Order (2), Imperiya Snezhnaya (2), South Olpen (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Republic of Blank (2), Erloane (2), Davelands (2), Rosmana (2), Great Primrosia (2), The Ancient World (2), Hometania (2), The Anarchist Federation of Spain (2), Karyeena (2), Liga Sancta (2), Oppy Gasai (2), Greenkeep (2), Eotheood (2), CoraSpia (2), Wisea (2), Qudrath (2), Islands Of Ventro (2), Sedgistan (2), The Republic of Abe (2), MAGNUS CAESAR (2), West Vesteria (2), and (940) individual member nations.

Against: 4,854: Francois Isidore (936), Dilber (487), Kethania (302), North East Somerset (244), Primorye Oblast (211), Luna State (188), New Samon (182), Duby (161), Lesser Velutaria (117), You Should See Me in a Crown (114), TESDAI (109), ShrewLlamaLand (91), Bearded Dragones (82), Enlais (61), Nulkia (55), Brys questions (49), Noble Titans (31), Tinhampton (21), Martinilinian (18), Sheepiania (17), Bassiliya (17), Ecolaria (16), German Federal Reich (16), Fachumonn (14), Baloo Kingdom (12), Niveusium (12), Albarusija (10), The Independent States of Allied Forces (9), Whallhall (9), Vegaga (9), Chodean Kal (9), The Reich of my People (8), Angry Saffron (7), Aelythium (7), Of The Glorious Soviet Onion (7), Orca and Narwhal (7), Wagastan (6), Libertarian Communist Planets (6), Taraom (6), Lost Village Mayohiga (6), FORKTASTICSTAN (5), Tuandle (5), Wabacha (4), Chap Ven (4), Barak Khalad (4), Jacobopolus (3), Frontier Isles (3), Dagnia (3), Dragons of Power (3), South Abrada (3), Tomisburg (3), The Palentine (3), AEthelgard (3), Agife (2), Nisasia (2), Cerata (2), Whitemore (2), Il Osoris (2), Calcaterra (2), Imperioa (2), Voneisen (2), Kaznotski (2), The Hazar Amisnery (2), Necropole Of Savoie (2), Chundukeratopia (2), Suvmia (2), Real Gamers (2), Copristan (2), Ibarkla (2), Shnrubton (2), The Hermetic Order of The Baal (2), North Aqusomia (2), Kinben-ism (2), Neim (2), and (1,097) individual member nations.

[URA World Assembly Affairs]

The United Regions Alliance recommends voting against this resolution. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1584728

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: This was never about fighting "fascism". Raiders and their friends have extensively used quorum raiding to subvert liberation attempts and to prevent several of my proposals from reaching quorum, such as Commend Christian Democrats and Repeal "Commend Evil Wolf". On the GA side, when UM used quorum-raiding to prevent Access to Abortion from reaching queue, he was rightfully and universally condemned for his actions, yet the same people were silent when Repeal "Reproductive Freedoms" was quorum-raided for three consecutive updates, causing massive collateral damage for several unrelated proposals. If the World Assembly is to remain a democratic institution, it must condemn the practice of a few elitist raiders deciding what gets to vote and what does not. Notice that those who are opposing this resolution are either raiders, or members of the WALL coalition, an elitist organisation that already controls at least 3000 votes in the WA.

[Cappedore]

Yet another declaration. These things don't do anything and are just giving players a poor excuse to bring more legislative matters to the SC. At the end of the day declarations do nothing, so this proposal simply feels like a waste of the SC's time.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Notice that those who are opposing this resolution are either raiders, or members of the WALL coalition, an elitist organisation that already controls at least 3000 votes in the WA.

No member of XKI, a region part of the Partnership for Sovereignty, that breaks its own laws on tag:WA spam and bans members of vast swathes of the game from even being part of the region can ever lecture anyone else on elitism.

It is the height of hypocrisy and frankly laughable.

[Xoriet]

OOC: This was never about fighting "fascism". Raiders and their friends have extensively used quorum raiding to subvert liberation attempts and to prevent several of my proposals from reaching quorum, such as Commend Christian Democrats and Repeal "Commend Evil Wolf".

Oh, you know what you did to earn our ire around the time of Repeal “Commend Evil Wolf.” You have no one to blame but yourself for that, and to be quite honest your own delegate allowed me to TG your region to tell them not to support you. Do you know how much you have to screw up for XKI to allow that? Or did you forget what you did in favor of blaming raiders for your poor plight? Not to mention that the people who opposed it aren't even raiders.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend you did not compare a discussion about raiding to people saying that it was the woman's fault that violence was committed against her because she wore the wrong clothes? Or are you too stuck in your own little world of playing the victim to remember that there would not have been an effort against that proposal if you had never opened your mouth in the first place?

Frankly, I don't know what kind of thought process creates your line of logic. It sure isn't one I'll ever care to know.

Oh, and your proposal was already in quorum and there was no way to knock it out sufficiently. What took it down was a countercampaign Telegram by me. So yeah, keep trying to make yourself out to be the victim here. You sure didn't have respect for real ones.