[DEFEATED] Corporal Punishment Ban

[AxeCapital]

"Are there any examples of violence being inflicted as a punishment without the aim of making the victim uncomfortable? It'd be nice to weigh up what's being excluded here."

"What comes to mind for me is BDSM punishment, which is the punishment/torture of the person to inflict sexual pleasure on them."

I thought of BDSM, but then does't this resolution apply to only children. So if its BDSM, its BDSM on children? And so in that case, is it allowed? Or is it prohibited in another resolution

[The Hazar Amisnery]

...What about nations that rely on physical torture as a means to keep down crime rates?...

Torture is illegal.

Looks like its not going to be passed anyway. Why do we need to ban corporal punishment? If torture is banned, doesn't that mean corporal punishment is basically reduced to stuff like 50 pushups or writing lines?

[Daarwyrth]

Torture is illegal.

Looks like its not going to be passed anyway. Why do we need to ban corporal punishment? If torture is banned, doesn't that mean corporal punishment is basically reduced to stuff like 50 pushups or writing lines?

Vyn Nysen: "I wouldn't be so sure of that, Ambassador. The vote is very close and has a small margin. This could easily flip towards a vote in favour of this proposal."

[Greater Cesnica]

Looks like its not going to be passed anyway. Why do we need to ban corporal punishment? If torture is banned, doesn't that mean corporal punishment is basically reduced to stuff like 50 pushups or writing lines?

Vyn Nysen: "I wouldn't be so sure of that, Ambassador. The vote is very close and has a small margin. This could easily flip towards a vote in favour of this proposal."

OOC: TNP will stack against.

[Tinhampton]

Vyn Nysen: "I wouldn't be so sure of that, Ambassador. The vote is very close and has a small margin. This could easily flip towards a vote in favour of this proposal."

OOC: TNP will stack against.

And TSP will stack for Brototh (Thaecia's WAD) voted for this proposal about a minute before you posted that, thereby giving this proposal a ten-vote lead (currently 2,339-2,329)

[Ribatistan]

Torture is illegal.

Looks like its not going to be passed anyway. Why do we need to ban corporal punishment? If torture is banned, doesn't that mean corporal punishment is basically reduced to stuff like 50 pushups or writing lines?

This is a very good point.

[Daarwyrth]

Vyn Nysen: "I wouldn't be so sure of that, Ambassador. The vote is very close and has a small margin. This could easily flip towards a vote in favour of this proposal."

OOC: TNP will stack against.

And TSP will stack for Brototh (Thaecia's WAD) voted for this proposal about a minute before you posted that, thereby giving this proposal a ten-vote lead (currently 2,339-2,329)

OOC: I expect the margin of the vote will remain very small throughout the vote. It is my hope that the vote will turn out 'for' in the end corporal punishment is archaic and has no place in modern civilization, if you ask me.

[Wired Lovers]

"What comes to mind for me is BDSM punishment, which is the punishment/torture of the person to inflict sexual pleasure on them."

I thought of BDSM, but then does't this resolution apply to only children. So if its BDSM, its BDSM on children? And so in that case, is it allowed? Or is it prohibited in another resolution

If not that is a disgusting loophole

[Ribatistan]

OOC: TNP will stack against.

And TSP will stack for Brototh (Thaecia's WAD) voted for this proposal about a minute before you posted that, thereby giving this proposal a ten-vote lead (currently 2,339-2,329)

OOC: I expect the margin of the vote will remain very small throughout the vote. It is my hope that the vote will turn out 'for' in the end corporal punishment is archaic and has no place in modern civilization, if you ask me.

What makes you say it is archaic? Most of the world still practices it today. Is it because the West does not practice it anymore?

[Tinhampton]

"What comes to mind for me is BDSM punishment, which is the punishment/torture of the person to inflict sexual pleasure on them."

I thought of BDSM, but then does't this resolution apply to only children. So if its BDSM, its BDSM on children? And so in that case, is it allowed? Or is it prohibited in another resolution

This resolution sets out to protect all individuals from corporal punishment, regardless of age.

[Wired Lovers]

And TSP will stack for Brototh (Thaecia's WAD) voted for this proposal about a minute before you posted that, thereby giving this proposal a ten-vote lead (currently 2,339-2,329)

OOC: I expect the margin of the vote will remain very small throughout the vote. It is my hope that the vote will turn out 'for' in the end corporal punishment is archaic and has no place in modern civilization, if you ask me.[/quote]
What makes you say it is archaic? Most of the world still practices it today. Is it because the West does not practice it anymore?[/quote]
No because it is. It has no observable benefits to development and is more emblematic of poor parenting than any cultural importance you seem to think it has.

[Daarwyrth]

OOC: I expect the margin of the vote will remain very small throughout the vote. It is my hope that the vote will turn out 'for' in the end corporal punishment is archaic and has no place in modern civilization, if you ask me.

What makes you say it is archaic? Most of the world still practices it today. Is it because the West does not practice it anymore?

OOC: I don't involve the concept of West and what not in this. Corporal punishment is archaic, in my opinion, because it bases itself on the severely flawed idea that children need to be reprimanded with pain, force, violence or fear. Fortunately, modern society has devised more prudent and effective ways of making a child understand they did something wrong, that doesn't unnecessarily emotionally scar a child or teenager. That is why it's archaic to me, because we have more reasonable methods of raising children.

[Ribatistan]

And TSP will stack for Brototh (Thaecia's WAD) voted for this proposal about a minute before you posted that, thereby giving this proposal a ten-vote lead (currently 2,339-2,329)

OOC: I expect the margin of the vote will remain very small throughout the vote. It is my hope that the vote will turn out 'for' in the end corporal punishment is archaic and has no place in modern civilization, if you ask me.

What makes you say it is archaic? Most of the world still practices it today. Is it because the West does not practice it anymore?[/quote]
No because it is. It has no observable benefits to development and is more emblematic of poor parenting than any cultural importance you seem to think it has.[/quote]
First of all, this resolution is not only about children. Secondly, it is quite disrespectful of you to consider corporal punishment of “cultural importance” to me, as we are not doing it for any reason except development. Lastly, when concerning children, why are you assuming that the parent is going to be beating the child on a regular basis? In my region’s eyes, when a child is usually forgiven their mistakes and is hit once in a while lightly, by the parent (no one else is permitted), it evokes an sad and emotional feeling within the child to be better next time because he realizes he’s done something wrong and will work to fix the issue. Usually a child is only beat one or two times within their lifetime. In our eyes, there is nothing “archaic” about this, has observable benefits to development, and does not create a sense of discomfort within the child.

[Ribatistan]

What makes you say it is archaic? Most of the world still practices it today. Is it because the West does not practice it anymore?

OOC: I don't involve the concept of West and what not in this. Corporal punishment is archaic, in my opinion, because it bases itself on the severely flawed idea that children need to be reprimanded with pain, force, violence or fear. Fortunately, modern society has devised more prudent and effective ways of making a child understand they did something wrong, that doesn't unnecessarily emotionally scar a child or teenager. That is why it's archaic to me, because we have more reasonable methods of raising children.

Once again, why are you assuming that corporal punishment is the only form of raising a child practiced by those who do it, and that a parent is going to be doing it frequently, or even hard enough that the child will be injured? Just because extreme sides exist doesn’t mean the whole practice should be banned. Also, even if you find it to be an issue, education would be a better solution than just outlawing it. Often the parent’s frustration when they would usually hit a child will result in them verbally acting very sarcastically, hostile, or rude to the child.

E.g., in my nation there are rules to legislate corporal punishment with regards to children: it may only be conducted by the parents, it must not be done frequently, it must not be done hard enough that the child will feel pain or have a mark, etc.

[Daarwyrth]

OOC: I don't involve the concept of West and what not in this. Corporal punishment is archaic, in my opinion, because it bases itself on the severely flawed idea that children need to be reprimanded with pain, force, violence or fear. Fortunately, modern society has devised more prudent and effective ways of making a child understand they did something wrong, that doesn't unnecessarily emotionally scar a child or teenager. That is why it's archaic to me, because we have more reasonable methods of raising children.

Once again, why are you assuming that corporal punishment is the only form of raising a child, and that a parent is going to be doing it frequently, or even hard enough that the child will be injured? Just because extreme sides exist doesn’t mean the whole practice should be banned. Also, even if you find it to be an issue, education would be a better solution than just outlawing it. Often the parent’s frustration when they would usually hit a child will result in them verbally acting very sarcastically, hostile, or rude to the child.

OOC: I am all for educating parents how to avoid poor parenting and to be better parents in general. Yet this is an issue that needs to be handled from two sides, namely from the top-down, and bottom-up. The top-down approach is a ban on the practice through legislation. The bottom-up approach is education. It is my hope that we will see the latter stimulated alongside this ban.

[Ribatistan]

Once again, why are you assuming that corporal punishment is the only form of raising a child, and that a parent is going to be doing it frequently, or even hard enough that the child will be injured? Just because extreme sides exist doesn’t mean the whole practice should be banned. Also, even if you find it to be an issue, education would be a better solution than just outlawing it. Often the parent’s frustration when they would usually hit a child will result in them verbally acting very sarcastically, hostile, or rude to the child.

OOC: I am all for educating parents how to avoid poor parenting and to be better parents in general. Yet this is an issue that needs to be handled from two sides, namely from the top-down, and bottom-up. The top-down approach is a ban on the practice through legislation. The bottom-up approach is education. It is my hope that we will see the latter stimulated alongside this ban.

You are still avoiding the issue: why is the whole practice to be banned and not just the extremist aspect to it? There are many parents who hit their kids once their in life without any pain or marks. This large group of people must not be ignored. Their kids hardly remember the beatings when they grow up nor are emotionally scarred, but it just helps them improve at the moment. I am all for regulating punishing children frequently with pain, force, and violence. In fact, those are such harsh terms I am not sure what we consider beating falls under those terms. Regardless, the issue is extremists and bad parents should be targeted and not the bulk population. For example, when a child is learning how to walk, a child-proof gate is installed in front of the stairs. That is the smart thing to do, instead of banning everyone from using the stairs until the baby knows where they are going. Similarly, parents who are extreme in their forms of reprimand should be regulated and educated, but those who are responsible about it and kind in practice should not be banned either.

[Kenmoria]

OOC: I am all for educating parents how to avoid poor parenting and to be better parents in general. Yet this is an issue that needs to be handled from two sides, namely from the top-down, and bottom-up. The top-down approach is a ban on the practice through legislation. The bottom-up approach is education. It is my hope that we will see the latter stimulated alongside this ban.

You are still avoiding the issue: why is the whole practice to be banned and not just the extremist aspect to it? There are many parents who hit their kids once their in life without any pain or marks. This large group of people must not be ignored. Their kids hardly remember the beatings when they grow up nor are emotionally scarred, but it just helps them improve at the moment. I am all for regulating punishing children frequently with pain, force, and violence. In fact, those are such harsh terms I am not sure what we consider beating falls under those terms. Regardless, the issue is extremists and bad parents should be targeted and not the bulk population. For example, when a child is learning how to walk, a child-proof gate is installed in front of the stairs. That is the smart thing to do, instead of banning everyone from using the stairs until the baby knows where they are going. Similarly, parents who are extreme in their forms of reprimand should be regulated and educated, but those who are responsible about it and kind in practice should not be banned either.

(OOC: Daarwyrth’s point, I believe, is that all corporal punishment has negative consequences for the child’s development, regardless of severity, beyond obvious de minimis cases. In other words, both the ‘extremists’ and the ‘bulk population’, to use your terminology, who use corporal punishment, equally need to have that practice restricted: source, other source, and another source.)

[Waldenes]

*The ambassador from Waldenes appears noticeably agitated.* “How the blazes is this vote so close?! This is a no brainer, people! Corporal punishment has no place in modern society and there is not a single leading competent psychologist who would say otherwise! With all due respect, GET WITH THE TIMES PEOPLE!”

[Daarwyrth]

You are still avoiding the issue: why is the whole practice to be banned and not just the extremist aspect to it? There are many parents who hit their kids once their in life without any pain or marks. This large group of people must not be ignored. Their kids hardly remember the beatings when they grow up nor are emotionally scarred, but it just helps them improve at the moment. I am all for regulating punishing children frequently with pain, force, and violence. In fact, those are such harsh terms I am not sure what we consider beating falls under those terms. Regardless, the issue is extremists and bad parents should be targeted and not the bulk population. For example, when a child is learning how to walk, a child-proof gate is installed in front of the stairs. That is the smart thing to do, instead of banning everyone from using the stairs until the baby knows where they are going. Similarly, parents who are extreme in their forms of reprimand should be regulated and educated, but those who are responsible about it and kind in practice should not be banned either.

OOC: Kenmoria explains what I mean perfectly:

(OOC: Daarwyrth’s point, I believe, is that all corporal punishment has negative consequences for the child’s development, regardless of severity, beyond obvious de minimis cases. In other words, both the ‘extremists’ and the ‘bulk population’, to use your terminology, who use corporal punishment, equally need to have that practice restricted: source, other source, and another source.)

It's not just the extremist cases that need to be addressed, all cases of corporal punishment must be addressed and promptly banned. There is no place for corporal punishment in any child's upbringing, and it never should have had a place in it in the first place. A parents who resorts to physical violence against a child (or any adult for that matter) has failed profoundly at being a parent or whatever position they hold (a teacher for example).

[Herby]

You know if you had kept the mandate for kids only I would have voted for. But no. You had to make it illegal to allow corporal punishment in the military. I mean if soldiers in our armed forces fuck up people die. So if we gotta make ‘em run the obstacle course with minimal fluids in their radiator to stress them to the limit and to ensure that they don’t fuck up again then by golly we’re gonna do that.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

You know if you had kept the mandate for kids only I would have voted for. But no. You had to make it illegal to allow corporal punishment in the military. I mean if soldiers in our armed forces fuck up people die. So if we gotta make ‘em run the obstacle course with minimal fluids in their radiator to stress them to the limit and to ensure that they don’t fuck up again then by golly we’re gonna do that.

Excellently said, ambassador.

*The ambassador from Waldenes appears noticeably agitated.* “How the blazes is this vote so close?! This is a no brainer, people! Corporal punishment has no place in modern society and there is not a single leading competent psychologist who would say otherwise! With all due respect, GET WITH THE TIMES PEOPLE!”

After wiping her glasses, Obraztsova remarked in a teacher's tone: Well, Ambassador, our sources disagree with you. Lakan Central Institute for Public Control had, after carrying out a multitude of different tests came up with a result that while corporate punishment may be severely damaging for one’s help, is also helps a lot to curb down the amount of crimes being committed in prisons- works for us. Moreover than that, maybe just maybe you’ll stop shouting and start treating your opponents with respect?

[Imperium Anglorum]

You know if you had kept the mandate for kids only I would have voted for. But no. You had to make it illegal to allow corporal punishment in the military. I mean if soldiers in our armed forces fuck up people die. So if we gotta make ‘em run the obstacle course with minimal fluids in their radiator to stress them to the limit and to ensure that they don’t fuck up again then by golly we’re gonna do that.

Because I'm a doctor. Because when we make mistakes people die.

[Saint Arsenio]

"Saint Arsenio shall be voting against this resolution, as we believe that this is an issue that should be addressed by individual nations, rather than the WA." - Ambassador Yolanda Wright.

[Waldenes]

*The Ambassador from Waldenes scans the room, eyeing everyone directly in the process, his voice lowered from before but no less passionate in tone.*

“It will be a sad, sad day for civil rights, the respect for the science of psychology, and ALL of our children should this resolution fail to pass... A sad, sad day.”

[Greater Cesnica]

*The Ambassador from Waldenes scans the room, eyeing everyone directly in the process, his voice lowered from before but no less passionate in tone.*

“It will be a sad, sad day for civil rights, the respect for the science of psychology, and ALL of our children should this resolution fail to pass... A sad, sad day.”

"I find it deeply ironic that you invoke civil rights. This resolution permits law enforcement officers to commit acts of brutality against criminal suspects. Not something that advances civil rights, is it?"