NationStates

Wasn't there a ruling somewhere, that a proposal had to actually had to do what the title says? And if so, how much of said proposal had to do what the title says?

This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE

Tinhampton wrote:This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE

Oh ok.

It's an interesting idea, but one that I feel is not really an international issue warranting WA intervention. I can think of a number of other topics that may warrant WA intervention into member nations' educational policies. This is not really one of them.

Tinhampton wrote:This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE

It’s a four line omnibus bill that blocks both further self defence regulation and physical education legislation. Now I am not opposed to the idea of blockers on both subjects, should they actually become hot button topic. Honestly when was the last time we had a 40 page thread on a phys ed, or self defence resolution? This honestly comes off a solution looking for a problem. No support from me.

Anderson: The real proposal "that blocks further self defence regulation" is Ambassador Bell's Self-Defense Compact. Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?

Tinhampton wrote:Anderson: The real proposal "that blocks further self defence regulation" is Ambassador Bell's Self-Defense Compact. Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?

In all honesty (in my mind) this is the least effective way to approach the problem of crime and assault. I’d much rather have improved education on issues like consent/empathy, and put funding towards reducing societal influences on violence/better policing etc.

To use the news article that inspired this proposal as an example, it is frankly laughable that the young lady that died could have stopped a knife-wielding opponent with basic ‘school level’ self defence techniques. Once she was in that situation and he grabbed a knife, there was very little she could have done, even with training. The best way to stop that happening again is through preventative measures, not teaching people to fight back. It’s similar to the gun situation in the US. Giving everyone more ways to fight simply leads to escalation.

To reiterate that Article c currently contains provision for education "on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence, de-escalating and preventing small-scale conflict situations, and escape from life-threatening situations," as was discussed on Monday. I'd be open in principle to Xanthorrhoea's preferred course of action, but do not want to take the content of this bill extremely far from its original and current intention.

I would note that James Gray's quest to enshrine self-defence lessons in the National Curriculum never culminated in a bill - although many other important issues have admittedly arisen since February 2020. I originally wrote this proposal on the day that Ellie Gould: Murdered girl's friends call for self-defence lessons was published but never bothered to forum-draft it for the first 54 weeks of its existence... goddamnit, Xant, you're making me think of the Teach The Future campaign that was gathering steam around the same time and was one surprise COVID briefing away from talking with the then-Education Secretary about their demands to require teaching on climate change

Still wanna go forward with this sooner - rather than later

We are unsure as to how this proposal accounts for students with disabilities?

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian WA Ambassador

Anderson: I would once again like to express my confidence that a functional education system would find some means of ensuring full compliance with Article b - perhaps including disability sports, which I understand are played in many member states, and including students in participatory but non-competitive roles such as refereeing or coaching.
As for Article c, I fail to see how those with severe physical disabilities cannot also benefit from learning about how to defend themselves. I have always been adamant that there is no one necessarily right way of safe and effective self-defence, and this resolution gives schools and teachers the flexibility to adapt the methods they use depending on the ability of the student.
Students with severe mental disabilities are a bit of a different case, but I would note that there are many other resolutions requiring member states to educate all of their inhabitants, no matter their mental capacity, on certain subjects. Take, for example, "management of personal savings," which Resolution Four Seventy-Four requires everybody to learn about even if they have so little capacity to actually manage their finances that they require someone with power of attorney to do so.

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Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: This made quorum in less than eight hours, also. Again. That figure is growing by the arbitrary twenty-five-minute period or thereabouts. Do pencil the beginning of voting at 5am on Thursday 9th December and the end four days later, Monday 13th December, in your diaries.

AS OF 1220 GMT ON THURSDAY: Approvals: 82 out of 59 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Treadwellia, The Scottish Republic, Enlais, Tevaris, TESDAI, Queenbury, The Finntopian Empire, Polomon Islands, Zeiling, Free Liberties, NinjitsUtopia, Sedgistan, Kokhestan, Dow Salold Islands, Tyslonia, Potenzia, Auxorii, Elyrethusa, Prussia-Saxon, Krovx Indochina, Islan Messh, 15th Scottish Highlanders Division, Fluvannia, The Bolivian Socialist Falange, Embreydo, Cadmy, Zombiedolphins, South Doge Land, Artemiso, Republic of Blank, Koslovenia, The Flyin, Ratification Of Your Mom, The Anarchist Federation of Spain, The Greastest Nation, KurentSlavija, Xukong, Langenia, Budgie Snugglers, Goatia, The Free Columbian States, Particle, Quebec and Labrador, Democratic anti veganist state, Socialization, The Free Northern Isles, Telgan Alpha, Estathuania, Novum Orientis, United Zephation, Kinben-ism, Candanadium, Fachumonn, Onionist Randosia, Wadelhelpia, Willtechia, Wisea, Flasankia, Yaxopsville, The Eurasian SFSR, Johill, Seveshka, Fsdh E, Telperian, Recycling Bins, Amerion, Viktorovitch, Kalanaria, Boiledcabbage, Ameritz, Roudeleiw, Marchas, The Tinfields, Boreguard, Laketovia, New Megaton, Ric Belli, The Communists of the Multiversal Empire, Satn, Setne)

And, as you can see on the projector screen - maybe not because the writing's small and I had to get all those names on one slide - approved by 8.4% of all eligible delegates in eighteen hours. This was our secret to success:

Xanthorrhoea wrote:A more effective proposal in my mind would require training on how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations, and how to de-escalate and escape, rather than how to fight. If you’re in a fight, you’ve already lost.

This is what I think it should be taught in schools. That proposal, no matter how noble your intentions are, will encourage school to teach "violence as a solution".

Seppen wrote:

Xanthorrhoea wrote:A more effective proposal in my mind would require training on how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations, and how to de-escalate and escape, rather than how to fight. If you’re in a fight, you’ve already lost.

This is what I think it should be taught in schools. That proposal, no matter how noble your intentions are, will encourage school to teach "violence as a solution".

I added the provisions about de-escalation, escape and avoidance that Xanthorrhoea was calling for into this draft a week ago. It has been submitted with those provisions included.

AS OF 1440 GMT ON SUNDAY: Approvals: 112 out of 60 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Treadwellia, The Scottish Republic, Enlais, Tevaris, TESDAI, Queenbury, The Finntopian Empire, Polomon Islands, Zeiling, Free Liberties, NinjitsUtopia, Sedgistan, Dow Salold Islands, Tyslonia, Potenzia, Auxorii, Elyrethusa, Prussia-Saxon, Krovx Indochina, Islan Messh, 15th Scottish Highlanders Division, Fluvannia, The Bolivian Socialist Falange, Embreydo, Cadmy, Zombiedolphins, South Doge Land, Artemiso, Republic of Blank, Koslovenia, The Flyin, Ratification Of Your Mom, The Anarchist Federation of Spain, The Greastest Nation, KurentSlavija, Xukong, Langenia, Budgie Snugglers, Goatia, The Free Columbian States, Particle, Quebec and Labrador, Democratic anti veganist state, Socialization, The Free Northern Isles, Telgan Alpha, Estathuania, Novum Orientis, United Zephation, Kinben-ism, Candanadium, Fachumonn, Onionist Randosia, Wadelhelpia, Willtechia, Wisea, Flasankia, Yaxopsville, The Eurasian SFSR, Johill, Seveshka, Fsdh E, Telperian, Amerion, Viktorovitch, Kalanaria, Boiledcabbage, Ameritz, Roudeleiw, Marchas, The Tinfields, Boreguard, Laketovia, New Megaton, Ric Belli, The Communists of the Multiversal Empire, Satn, Setne, Galaxiak, Ceneopia Hana, Baloo Kingdom, Sailiopia, Bearded Dragones, Jentrad, Wischland, Tau Ceti Omega, Foreignaid, Stonehave, Meink, Very totally free, Pasaistan, Komrat, Baccalieu, Vipathe, Ravko, Chairman Cities, Carie Neopitzia, The Isles of Bermuda, Mardatan, The Dark Crusaders, The Age of Utopia, WinkyMaster, Bayin, Free Woritanarbio Islands, Calnodia, The United Provinces of North America, Desertiania, Nesya, Libonesia, Battadia)

Tinhampton wrote:mandates that schools, as part of their physical education curriculum, deliver practical lessons to all of their students on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence

I was talking about that above. As conviced pacifist and antimilitarist, I think that schools should never teach violence (both physical or other forms), not even as defensive solution.

Seppen wrote:

Tinhampton wrote:mandates that schools, as part of their physical education curriculum, deliver practical lessons to all of their students on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence

I was talking about that above. As conviced pacifist and antimilitarist, I think that schools should never teach violence (both physical or other forms), not even as defensive solution.

This is where I'm at as well. I think I'd be fine with this proposal if it wasn't mandatory. My nation (admittedly an exception here) is entirely non-violent and the people in it are pacifists. They have no need to address how to mitigate violence or potential violence in situations, making pushing this into classes a waste of time. If it were a requirement to provide this as an elective for primary and secondary schools, I wouldn't mind it.

Tinhampton wrote:Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?

Yeah. It sucks. Mandating primary school kids like first graders take self defense classes? Yeah that’s gonna go over well. Absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

As a nation which has outlawed guns (and encourages all others to do the same), we take issue with the implications of Article d. Furthermore, Croanique is a pacifist nation with a low crime rate, and we cannot encourage the use of violence among our youngest citizens, even as self-defense. There's nothing stopping anyone receiving a formal education regarding self-defense from using that knowledge to further harm others in non-defensive ways. Finally, we cannot support any resolution stressing the importance of staying "physically able" as though that is a choice everyone gets to make. Physical education classes are notoriously ableist and fatphobic environments which breed contempt among the majority of people and rarely teach much of anything valuable in a long-term sense. Croanique votes wholeheartedly AGAINST this resolution.

Absolutely approve of this.

As the title hint(ed), this was approved by a bit over 12% of delegates and is now at vote until Monday minor. Unfortunately it only seems to be gathering support from 15% of voters, the most powerful of which is me

For: 564: Tinhampton (37), Johanneslanden (20), Candanadium (16), Loush Land (12), Onionist Randosia (11), Satn (10), Kyuxcy (7), Refrigeratoria (6), The Communists of the Multiversal Empire (5), Marinonia (4), Deus Todo Poderoso (4), Smiley Bob (4), Swadonland (4), Roudeleiw (3), The Hazar Amisnery (3), Fickonong (3), Democratic anti veganist state (2), KurentSlavija (2), Free Woritanarbio Islands (2), Guerin Smith (2), IrelandElectricBoogaloo (2), and (405) individual member nations.

Against: 3,094: Albrook (726), Wischland (432), Imperium Anglorum (411), Duby (279), Luna State (196), Lesser Velutaria (113), ShrewLlamaLand (98), Sylh Alanor (75), Octal (44), Dabberwocky (33), Orioni 2 (24), NewTexas (22), Owswaldia (20), Draganisia (12), Vegaga (11), Trovons (8), Gatchina (8), Chodean Kal (8), Otaku Stratus (8), The Soviet state of Svalbard (7), Captain Woodhouse (6), The Palentine (5), Setne (4), The Klevs (3), The Isles of Bermuda (3), Barak Khalad (3), Republic of Washinton (3), Herby (3), Avalon Nova (2), Arkilandic (2), Majajaya (2), The Tinfields (2), Rolenmar (2), Suvalov (2), Jruhld (2), Western Isles Of Denmark (2), The Leine Land (2), Sedgistan (2), Xukong (2), Shnrubton (2), and (505) individual member nations.

Croanique wrote:As a nation which has outlawed guns (and encourages all others to do the same), we take issue with the implications of Article d.

Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.

Tinhampton wrote:Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.

Genuine question, then: what exactly is the point?

Kadinatia wrote:

Tinhampton wrote:Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.

Genuine question, then: what exactly is the point?

"Improving the world" is the GA's only stated goal. It is my belief that helping decent and well-meaning people protect themselves against unwarranted attack - as well as to reduce the likelihood of serious harm should the worst happen to them - is a form of such improvement.

The reason why I require that self-defence be taught without ordering schools to teach any one form of self-defence is to ensure that schools have the flexibility to deliver culturally appropriate training on self-defence.

"If we teach the people to defend themselves, we don't have to pay a police force. Less taxes!"